Felix Miata said the following on 12/31/2012 06:35 PM:

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Close .... so close ....

Closer than you think. Upgrading means not formatting, which means not wiping existing bootloader. All you needed to do was install no bootloader while upgrading, then boot openSUSE with the old bootloader, then install your choice of openSUSE bootloader.

That's what I *thought*. What I found was that the suse installer had insisted on _not_ asking me first and had zapped the bootloader and screwed up the attempted lilo. I repeat: it didn't ask; it didn't offer me a choice of which bootloader (as it might in a normal install) and didn't offer me a choice to edit the menu (as it might in a normal install). It just attempted to create a lilo and made a mess of that. I'm now out of time to experiment any further. This was supposed to be a 'get the file server working so I can finish my year end accounts for the revenue' holiday project and now I've just one day to do all the accounts! If I get to revisit this I'll let you know. :-0 -- "I mean, if 10 years from now, when you are doing something quick and dirty, you suddenly visualize that I am looking over your shoulders and say to yourself, 'Dijkstra would not have liked this,' well that would be enough immortality for me." -- E.W. Dijkstra -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

One of the problems I'm having is that the 12.2 DVD seems to do odd EDID behaviour. When I boot from the 12.2 DVD I get Analog Out of range 46.4kHz / 43 Hz Yes, I know there should be a "F3" for screen size. I don't even see that. This out of range is immediate. A few notes: 1. It happens with *All* my LCD screens. 2. If I dig out an old CRT from my closet and plug that in, then I see the boot screen and can work with the install. 3. If I try installing an old version of openSuse, 11.2 or 11.4 for example, I don't have this problem with the LCD screens. 4. I've tried a few other distributions and they don't have this problem either. My primary LCD monitor is an LG1953. Fedora 15/16/17 seem to boot in (when I use text-mode) 1024x768 (that what the gfxmode is set to for grub) the see the EDID and jump to the higher resolution. I see articles like this http://ubuntuguide.net/monitor-signal-out-of-range-problem-in-ubuntu-12-04-p... but that only applies AFTER the system is up. Any ideas, guys? -- The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously. -- Hubert H. Humphrey -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Wed, 2 Jan 2013 14:17:09 +0100 (CET) "Carlos E. R." wrote:

El 2013-01-02 a las 07:51 -0500, Anton Aylward escribió:

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1. It happens with *All* my LCD screens. Any ideas, guys?

Cable or card.

or default in CMOS setting? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 El 2013-01-02 a las 08:43 -0500, Anton Aylward escribió:

Carlos E. R. said the following on 01/02/2013 08:17 AM:

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El 2013-01-02 a las 07:51 -0500, Anton Aylward escribió:

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1. It happens with *All* my LCD screens.

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Any ideas, guys?

Cable or card.

RWIS: Same card, same cable; change LCD for CRT.

Well, that is what I say, try a different cable. - -- Cheers Carlos E. R. (from 11.4, with Evergreen, x86_64 "Celadon" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlDkRxgACgkQja8UbcUWM1yUcQD/dJRRLofo1tVXRSXb/KU5XFs3 n7+kLZBHKrEDRwzkgWYA/j8ihqERZ8X2aK+NW1A+AmsCStBhmIqHSwsYij9l1q5o =BWeN -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Felix Miata said the following on 01/02/2013 07:09 PM:

On 2013-01-02 07:51 (GMT-0500) Anton Aylward composed:

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One of the problems I'm having is that the 12.2 DVD seems to do odd EDID behaviour. When I boot from the 12.2 DVD I get

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Analog Out of range 46.4kHz / 43 Hz

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Yes, I know there should be a "F3" for screen size. I don't even see that. This out of range is immediate.

Meaning what, screen goes black as soon as POST messages finish? Or does it happen when the first anything from booting the DVD should be drawing?

As soon as the POST finishes ... well as soon as the DVD boots. I never see anything past the POST; except the "out of range" notice on the monitor. I don't see the welcome screen, I don't see the screen offering F1, F2, F3 and the menu of install/boot from hard dis and whatever else. Perhaps the ISOLINUX notice flashes by too quickly ... but as soon as the DVD boots the screen blanks.

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A few notes:

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1. It happens with *All* my LCD screens.

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2. If I dig out an old CRT from my closet and plug that in, then I see the boot screen and can work with the install.

Since you can, does it really matter if the 12.2 DVD doesn't like your display?

Its a crappy old 15" that buzzes ..

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3. If I try installing an old version of openSuse, 11.2 or 11.4 for example, I don't have this problem with the LCD screens.

So what is it with the ISOLINUX on the 12.2 DVD? Is it booting from a late model - grub2 - version of ISOLINUX or something?

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Any ideas, guys?

Assuming DVD is OK, could be some bug in the installation kernel's KMS function that only shows up with your display's particular EDID. Did you md5sum the iso and the burned DVD?

Yes, the MD5 is OK. As I say, its specific to LCDs

Do you have another cable you could try, especially one with EDID function inoperable due to a missing pin?

Same cable, same card/machine with Fedora and Mageia works. I can set them nosplash and watch the messages and see the 'jump' when they see EDID and change resolution.

Can that PC already boot something else from Grub? If it can, load the installation kernel and initrd with Grub instead of starting from the DVD, from which you can use vga=791 and/or video=1366x768@60

Ah, this LG1952 only goes to 1280x1024@60. And I'm not sure what you're asking/how to do that. This is an INSTALL. Unless I'm using another distribution .. Think of it as a blank disk. -- People who won't quit making the same mistake over and over are what we call conservatives. - Richard Ford, in his novel Independence Day -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 2013-01-02 20:52 (GMT-0500) Anton Aylward composed:

Felix Miata composed:

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On 2013-01-02 07:51 (GMT-0500) Anton Aylward composed:

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One of the problems I'm having is that the 12.2 DVD seems to do odd EDID behaviour. When I boot from the 12.2 DVD I get

...

...

Analog Out of range 46.4kHz / 43 Hz

...

...

Yes, I know there should be a "F3" for screen size. I don't even see that. This out of range is immediate.

...

Meaning what, screen goes black as soon as POST messages finish? Or does it happen when the first anything from booting the DVD should be drawing?

As soon as the POST finishes ... well as soon as the DVD boots. I never see anything past the POST; except the "out of range" notice on the monitor. I don't see the welcome screen, I don't see the screen offering F1, F2, F3 and the menu of install/boot from hard dis and whatever else.

Did you try the auto-adjust function while it displayed the out of range message?

Perhaps the ISOLINUX notice flashes by too quickly ... but as soon as the DVD boots the screen blanks.

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A few notes:

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1. It happens with *All* my LCD screens.

More than one I don't recall you mentioning previously, not that my recall is anything to be proud of. :-p

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2. If I dig out an old CRT from my closet and plug that in, then I see the boot screen and can work with the install.

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Since you can, does it really matter if the 12.2 DVD doesn't like your display?

Its a crappy old 15" that buzzes ..

So it buzzes an hour or two until you finish installing. Is that a real problem?

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3. If I try installing an old version of openSuse, 11.2 or 11.4 for example, I don't have this problem with the LCD screens.

So what is it with the ISOLINUX on the 12.2 DVD? Is it booting from a late model - grub2 - version of ISOLINUX or something?

Pretty sure only ISOLINUX on DVD boot. But, the installation kernel makes it go, and KMS could well be the culprit if it is a KMS kernel.

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Any ideas, guys?

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Assuming DVD is OK, could be some bug in the installation kernel's KMS function that only shows up with your display's particular EDID. Did you md5sum the iso and the burned DVD?

Yes, the MD5 is OK.

As I say, its specific to LCDs

Oh, so you tried more than one LCD, and all you tried are LG195x models?

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Do you have another cable you could try, especially one with EDID function inoperable due to a missing pin?

Same cable, same card/machine with Fedora and Mageia works.

The point was to see if a different video card or cable changes anything. Now that we know you have a garage full of LG LCDs it probably doesn't matter. :-) http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=15217 implies you may have tried those longer than a short time ago. What you could be experiencing is what http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague describes. ISTR out of range might have been what clued me that my ViewSonic was exhibiting that problem, since solved in about 30 minutes with a soldering iron and less than $3 in parts already on hand.

I can set them nosplash and watch the messages and see the 'jump' when they see EDID and change resolution.

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Can that PC already boot something else from Grub? If it can, load the installation kernel and initrd with Grub instead of starting from the DVD, from which you can use vga=791 and/or video=1366x768@60

Ah, this LG1952 only goes to 1280x1024@60.

In http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse/2013-01/msg00026.html you wrote LG1953. Offlist you wrote LG1953S after which Google found me http://www.digi.co.id/lcd-lg-1953s.html that told me what you have is 1366x768. LG1952 is indeed 1280x1024, so if 1952 is in fact what you have, put video=1280x1024@60 on cmdline and see what happens, even if it means you must first boot Knoppix, install Grub, and put the installation kernel and initrd on it so you can initiate installation without a DVD.

And I'm not sure what you're asking/how to do that.

I didn't know whether or not you were trying to install to an empty HD.

This is an INSTALL. Unless I'm using another distribution .. Think of it as a blank disk.

OK, but that needn't stop you from installing without using a DVD that doesn't work as expected. I rarely install from OM, and almost as infrequently even download an iso. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 2013-01-03 06:32 (GMT-0500) Anton Aylward composed:

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Its a crappy old 15" that buzzes ..

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So it buzzes an hour or two until you finish installing. Is that a real problem?

And then I carry the machine up from the basement and plug it in in the office with the 'production' setting, the LCD, and ... well, no, it won't see the EDID and settles for 800x600 and won't shift. I've tried editing the boot line, the grub/gfxboot and the xorg.conf to include 1024, 1280 with various modelines. NADA.

So this isn't about installation any more? If so, you should be using either xorg.conf or xorg.conf.d/, but not both, unless you're really up on how they work together or not. What's your video chip, and if not Intel, which driver is actually used according to Xorg.0.log? Try http://fm.no-ip.com/Share/xorg.conf-minimal-EDID-workaround and if it doesn't help as is, uncomment the refresh and/or sync lines. Or, instead of xorg.conf, use that file as a guide to configuring via xorg.conf.d/.

No, this LG is solid. As I say, it works just fine with Fedora 15 though 17.

Today? Or a month or three ago?

When I look at the boot command line I see edd=off highres=off nomodeset nohz=off Now why did it put all that in there?

If in the default kernel stanza, they may have been what were used for installation with the old CRT. Normally they only show up on installed systems in failsafe stanzas. Maybe it's time you examined your Grub menu file, and /etc/sysconfig/bootloader. It could be you are suffering from a mangled bootloader installation and/or configuration. Nomodeset is a fallback/failsafe that is capable of causing more trouble than it solves.

I just tried editing the command line as you suggested. No change.

Try an opposite editing approach: delete everything on the kernel line except "kernel vmlinuz-3.4.6-xxx-desktop", and at least try without using any xorg.conf* if you get booted without the LCD going to sleep. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 2013-01-03 18:54 (GMT+0100) Carlos E. R. composed:

Anton Aylward composed:

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And then I carry the machine up from the basement and plug it in in the office with the 'production' setting, the LCD, and ... well, no, it won't see the EDID and settles for 800x600 and won't shift. I've tried editing the boot line, the grub/gfxboot and the xorg.conf to include 1024, 1280 with various modelines. NADA.

So, not even the CRT works.

What's the thing that on all those test failures remain the same? One the cable, two the card. All those failures have that hardware in common. Either your cable or your card is broken, so change at least one of them to try! Gosh!

As previously reported, Mageia, multiple Fedoras and pre-12.2 openSUSE have no such trouble. A change of one of the components you listed might have a useful impact, but I would be unsurprised if none do - except for the gfx - his gfxchip is SiS. Nuff said. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Felix Miata wrote:

On 2012-12-31 22:04 (GMT-0500) Anton Aylward composed:

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'zypper up' resulted in a number of runs of 'mkinitrd'. Obviously one of the kernel upgrade, but also for things related to the kernel and boot such as 'plymouth'. It was time consuming on the dinky, underpowered scratch machine.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=786318

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Worse, the initrd files are enormous! Up around 15M. Is there any way to bring them down?

Change your hardware? What do you have? Mine are around half that size.

Mine are about 4M. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (6.4°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - free DNS hosting, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Anton Aylward wrote:

Per Jessen said the following on 01/01/2013 06:02 AM:

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Felix Miata wrote:

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On 2012-12-31 22:04 (GMT-0500) Anton Aylward composed:

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'zypper up' resulted in a number of runs of 'mkinitrd'. Obviously one of the kernel upgrade, but also for things related to the kernel and boot such as 'plymouth'. It was time consuming on the dinky, underpowered scratch machine.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=786318

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Worse, the initrd files are enormous! Up around 15M. Is there any way to bring them down?

Change your hardware? What do you have? Mine are around half that size.

Mine are about 4M.

How did you achieve that?

I don't think I do anything in particular - I just build it with mkinitrd. The size will depend on the system/functionality though - on a xen guest (12.2) I see an initrd of about 4Mb, on a physical server (11.0) I see about 5Mb, on my newish 12.2 mythtv box, it's about 16Mb. If you want to know what it's made up of: mkdir ~/gg cd gg gzip -dc initrd | cpio --extract -d -- Per Jessen, Zürich (4.9°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - free DNS hosting, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 2013-01-01 17:38 (GMT+0100) Per Jessen composed:

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Worse, the initrd files are enormous! Up around 15M. Is there any way to bring them down? Change your hardware? What do you have? Mine are around half that size.

If you want to know what it's made up of:

mkdir ~/gg cd gg gzip -dc initrd | cpio --extract -d

Or since 11.1, the short way: lsinitrd /boot/initrd Since it's a part of mkinitrd rpm, let's hope it doesn't get lost when dracut obsoletes it. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Tue, 01 Jan 2013 14:05:37 -0500 Anton Aylward wrote:

I can see how to exclude then under dracut - really nice config system there! But what about exclusions under the traditional mkinitrd of suse. What I see in /etc/sysconfig/kernel is more about _including_ that excluding.

man 8 mkinitd is informative on general design of mkinitrd. -- Regards, Rajko. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Anton Aylward wrote:

Rajko said the following on 01/01/2013 03:53 PM:

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On Tue, 01 Jan 2013 14:05:37 -0500 Anton Aylward wrote:

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I can see how to exclude then under dracut - really nice config system there! But what about exclusions under the traditional mkinitrd of suse. What I see in /etc/sysconfig/kernel is more about _including_ that excluding.

man 8 mkinitd

is informative on general design of mkinitrd.

Well, I don't know about "design" in the sense of architecture. And it makes clear my point that it is about what to include rather than what to exclude.

Man pages aside, just going by config files, dracut is going to be easier to configure to do what you want. heck, I've run dracut interactively on fedora and it will tell you what the stuff it can include and exclude will do!

If its design we're talking about then dracut is a lot easier to work with for non-specialists. and lets face it, there are a lot of people who want to customise their kernel ONCE and don't want to have a long learning curve. When it gets here for Suse I think dracut will do that.

Hmm, I think I would still count building a new initrd as a job for a specialist. openSUSE ought to cater for every other non-specialist use case. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (2.2°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - free DNS hosting, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Tue, 01 Jan 2013 13:54:10 -0500 Felix Miata wrote:

lsinitrd /boot/initrd

It would be useful to have: lsinitrd /boot/initrd | less as my initrd listing has over 500 lines, so having 'less' in the game gives ability to search listing instead to read line by line :) -- Regards, Rajko. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

El 01/01/13 00:04, Anton Aylward escribió:

So how can I get the initrd size down?

Using dracut of course. I have it working but in Factory/12.3 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Anton Aylward wrote:

Cristian Rodríguez said the following on 01/01/2013 01:01 AM:

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El 01/01/13 00:04, Anton Aylward escribió:

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So how can I get the initrd size down?

Using dracut of course. I have it working but in Factory/12.3

I've tried dracut on Mageia and fedora and I like it, but when will we see it in core openSuse?

When all of the accumulated "knowledge" in mkinitrd has been transplanted to dracut. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (6.4°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - free DNS hosting, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org