On Thu, 11 May 2017 08:29:20 -0700, John Andersen wrote:

On May 11, 2017 6:30:34 AM PDT, Istvan Gabor wrote:

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Hello:

In openSUSE Leap 42.2 what is the difference between installation patterns "Plasma 5 Desktop" and "KDE Desktop Environment"?

And, is it possible to install KDE4 in 42.2?

Thanks,

Istvan

Look, Istvan, Plasma5-KDE5 exceeds KDE4 in speed, stability, and overall quality. Everything works, and works fast. Zero learning curve.

Don't even start down that kde4 path is my advice.

Thanks. I tried plasma5 desktop but it messed up my KDE3 settings. See my previous post https://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse/2017-05/msg00105.html My primary desktop is KDE3 because it's light and has features that no other desktop manager has (manual hiding of panel, mounting media onto the desktop, most frequently used applications in kicker menu, very easy editing of panel widgets, system tray clock can have real black fonts - not only unreadable gray, system tray clock time and date fonts can be set independently, kprinter, uniform desktop icons). I need KDE4/5 only for testing purposes. Thanks, Istvan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Istvan Gabor composed on 2017-05-12 16:11 (UTC+0200):

I tried plasma5 desktop but it messed up my KDE3 settings. See my previous post https://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse/2017-05/msg00105.html

My primary desktop is KDE3 because it's light and has features that no other desktop manager has (manual hiding of panel, mounting media onto the desktop, most frequently used applications in kicker menu, very easy editing of panel widgets, system tray clock can have real black fonts - not only unreadable gray, system tray clock time and date fonts can be set independently, kprinter, uniform desktop icons).

I need KDE4/5 only for testing purposes. Latest TDE release has migrated most K* names to T* names, so I would expect

KDE3 remains my primary (in 42.1), but I have a bunch of PCs with all other OS releases and TW, variously with KDE3, Plasma 5, and/or (mostly only or) TDE (none with both Plasma and TDE or KDE3 sessions enabled IIRC). I can't remember any of the KDE3 features you listed that TDE lacks. I'm still contemplating whether to migrate to TDE when switching to 42.2. little or no likelihood of Plasma messing up any TDE settings. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 05/13/2017 12:57 AM, Felix Miata wrote:

I may have found a clue on TW? I had one TW installation with 4 KDE3 packages installed:

kdebase3 kdebase3-apps kdebase3-kdm kdebase3-runtime

I found "Configure Desktop" /seemed/ missing from main menu, with "Settings" heavily populated by what looked like the various KDE3 kcmshell apps. From xterm systemsettings5 worked normally. I removed kdebase3-apps and kdebase3, leaving runtime and kdm. On session restart, the only thing in "Settings" was "Configure Desktop". I reinstalled kdebase3-apps and kdebase3, restarted session to find the "Settings" again a long list, but with "Configure Desktop" included.

That's another thorn -- no way to have separate wallpaper on each desktop in plasma/FW5. Seems like such a trivial thing, but it really helps. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 05/12/2017 09:11 AM, Istvan Gabor wrote:

I need KDE4/5 only for testing purposes.

Thanks,

Istvan

Then I would virtualize a 10G install in KVM or Virtualbox and test there. I wouldn't let Plasma/FW5 within 10 miles of my KDE3 daily driver. I have the current version of Plasma/FW5 on a completely separate Arch install on a separate drive. I still find FW5 more of a collection of separate apps with a fsck.ed.up Konqueror and a spectacle that you have to X11 forward ksnapshot from KDE3 if you want a screenshot of a problem with -- it's too dumb to be able to take a snapshot of itself. That said, there have been a lot of what I didn't like fixed in the last 8 months with the current git version. Still can't stand that it demands over a Gig of memory with only a couple of apps open. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 05/13/2017 07:08 AM, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

you still have gimp and xv which both will take a snapshot including that app. I believe xv install uses all of or nearly all of 3mb.

Yes..., sad you have to use a 3rd party app to do something you have been able to do in KDE3 since, what 2003? Progress... Never let them tell you that that removing features isn't an improvement. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

John Andersen composed on 2017-05-14 17:09 (UTC-0700):

David C. Rankin composed on 2017-05-14 12:46 (UTC-0500):

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Yes..., sad you have to use a 3rd party app to do something you have been able to do in KDE3 since, what 2003?

Memory not terribly good that far back, but I think it was there when I was first exposed to KDE, v1.x in early 2000. KDE was already 3.x before 2003.

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Progress...

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Never let them tell you that that removing features isn't an improvement.

I'm confused. What part of Spectacle doesn't work for you?

I don't remember WRT functionality, since I typically use some other DE when I plan to make screenshots. It may have to do with filename smarts or lack therof on retakes. Absence of strings "shot" "cap" "screen" "pict" or anything else in its name to indicate why it exists is frustrating. I often have to Google when I do need it. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Patrick Shanahan composed on 2017-05-14 16:28 (UTC-0400):

* Felix Miata composed:

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Absence of strings "shot" "cap" "screen" "pict" or anything else in its name to indicate why it exists is frustrating. I often have to Google when I do need it.

a simple reminder to help the most fault of memories: tie it to the <prtscrn> key

Which helps how? I'm not trying to send anything to a printer when I want to capture a jpg of a GUI screen. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Patrick Shanahan composed on 2017-05-14 18:14 (UTC-0400):

Felix Miata composed:

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Patrick Shanahan composed on 2017-05-14 16:28 (UTC-0400):

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* Felix Miata composed:

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Absence of strings "shot" "cap" "screen" "pict" or anything else in its name to indicate why it exists is frustrating. I often have to Google when I do need it.

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a simple reminder to help the most fault of memories: tie it to the <prtscrn> key

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Which helps how? I'm not trying to send anything to a printer when I want to capture a jpg of a GUI screen.

duh, <prtscrn> has to do a screen capture and then *you* tell it what to do with the captured screen. you do not have to *print* the screen, you *can* save the file.

The mechanics of how PrintScreen does what it does is zero help. Last time I hit that key on purpose I still had a working dot matrix parallel printer and was booted to DOS. Only thing I ever used it for on purpose was putting BIOS 80x25 or SVGA text (132xNn) screen content on paper. Other strikings took an eternity for the printer to get quiet. The key says "Print", not "now what?". -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Sun, May 14, 2017 at 7:35 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2017-05-15 00:35, Felix Miata wrote:

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Patrick Shanahan composed on 2017-05-14 18:14 (UTC-0400):

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a simple reminder to help the most fault of memories: tie it to the <prtscrn> key

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Which helps how? I'm not trying to send anything to a printer when I want to capture a jpg of a GUI screen.

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duh, <prtscrn> has to do a screen capture and then *you* tell it what to do with the captured screen. you do not have to *print* the screen, you *can* save the file.

The mechanics of how PrintScreen does what it does is zero help. Last time I hit that key on purpose I still had a working dot matrix parallel printer and was booted to DOS. Only thing I ever used it for on purpose was putting BIOS 80x25 or SVGA text (132xNn) screen content on paper. Other strikings took an eternity for the printer to get quiet. The key says "Print", not "now what?".

For about two decades the PrtScreen key in Linux X does not print. It has always captured the screen instead.

Unfortunately Linux is not powerful enough to tell the keyboard industry to rename the key.

Same in Windows, actually (although until recently it only copied it to the clipboard rather than opening a full-fledged application). If even windows can't get them to change the name, then no one can. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 05/14/2017 12:42 PM, Felix Miata wrote:

Absence of strings "shot" "cap" "screen" "pict" or anything else in its name to indicate why it exists is frustrating. I often have to Google when I do need it.

Nobody mentioned that as an issue. And if they did they forgot to also mention Dolphin, Konqueror, Kopete and Konversation. I don't think this was David was complaining about. That being said, your complaint about the name seems as valid as any complaint I've seen posted. I use it daily, and It seems to work just fine for me. I suspect most of these complaints in this thread are ancient memories of past rages over premature releases. I'm guilty of the same thing. Wild horses couldn't drag me back to Btrfs, after having to restore broken systems. -- After all is said and done, more is said than done. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 2017-05-15 00:25, Felix Miata wrote:

Even not accepting btrfs in the first place is easier said than done: # zypper -v in dracut ... Selecting 'dracut-044-25.1.x86_64' from repository 'OSS' for installation. ... Problem: dracut-044-25.1.x86_64 requires btrfsprogs >= 3.18, but this requirement cannot be provided uninstallable providers: btrfsprogs-4.10.2-1.1.i586[OSS] btrfsprogs-4.10.2-1.1.x86_64[OSS] Solution 1: Following actions will be done: remove lock to allow installation of btrfsprogs-4.10.2-1.1.i586[OSS] install btrfsprogs-4.10.2-1.1.i586 despite the inferior architecture Solution 2: remove lock to allow installation of btrfsprogs-4.10.2-1.1.x86_64[OSS] Solution 3: do not install dracut-044-25.1.x86_64 Solution 4: break dracut-044-25.1.x86_64 by ignoring some of its dependencies

:-(

You can have btrfsprogs installed, yet not a single btrfs partition installed. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" (Minas Tirith))

On 2017-05-15 02:01, Felix Miata wrote:

Carlos E. R. composed on 2017-05-15 01:41 (UTC+0200):

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Felix Miata wrote:

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Even not accepting btrfs in the first place is easier said than done: # zypper -v in dracut ... Selecting 'dracut-044-25.1.x86_64' from repository 'OSS' for installation. ... Problem: dracut-044-25.1.x86_64 requires btrfsprogs >= 3.18, but this requirement cannot be provided uninstallable providers: btrfsprogs-4.10.2-1.1.i586[OSS] btrfsprogs-4.10.2-1.1.x86_64[OSS] Solution 1: Following actions will be done: remove lock to allow installation of btrfsprogs-4.10.2-1.1.i586[OSS] install btrfsprogs-4.10.2-1.1.i586 despite the inferior architecture Solution 2: remove lock to allow installation of btrfsprogs-4.10.2-1.1.x86_64[OSS] Solution 3: do not install dracut-044-25.1.x86_64 Solution 4: break dracut-044-25.1.x86_64 by ignoring some of its dependencies

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:-(

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You can have btrfsprogs installed, yet not a single btrfs partition installed.

Anything not strictly required, that could be recommended or suggested but is packaged as required, constitutes bloat:

wastes initrd build time wastes initrd storage space wastes initrd load time wastes storage space wastes updates bandwidth

A little bloat here, a little bloat there, adds up to more than a little.

Fighting those wastes more time than it is worth. Anyway, if there is no btrfs partition I do not see a reason for dracut to include modules to mount or repair them, in the dracut image. Yet the package can require them as an install requirement, different from a runtime requirement. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" (Minas Tirith))

* David C. Rankin [05-14-17 13:48]:

On 05/13/2017 07:08 AM, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

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you still have gimp and xv which both will take a snapshot including that app. I believe xv install uses all of or nearly all of 3mb.

Yes..., sad you have to use a 3rd party app to do something you have been able to do in KDE3 since, what 2003?

Progress...

Never let them tell you that that removing features isn't an improvement.

yes, still cannot understand why they took down those street lamps :) -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org