The trouble converting from win to suse is the names
What I mean is the names of programs. When I want to do something I do not know the name of the program which will do what I want. I know that linux has a rich set of programs and many will do the same things. However learning the names and what they do is a big challenge. Is there someplace where there is a list of the programs and what they do or a x ref between the one windows program and the many linux programs. Bob Robert A. Rawlinson Phoenix Data
On Monday 23 August 2004 17:50, Robert A. Rawlinson wrote:
What I mean is the names of programs. When I want to do something I do not know the name of the program which will do what I want. I know that linux has a rich set of programs and many will do the same things. However learning the names and what they do is a big challenge. Is there someplace where there is a list of the programs and what they do or a x ref between the one windows program and the many linux programs.
That's an extraordinary statement. Would you mind giving me an example of something for which there is only one windows program? Also, how do you go about learning which windows programs will do the trick? You can't tell me you think "excel" is a logical and straightforward name for a spreadsheet application now can you
On Mon, 2004-08-23 at 11:37, Anders Johansson wrote:
On Monday 23 August 2004 17:50, Robert A. Rawlinson wrote:
What I mean is the names of programs. When I want to do something I do not know the name of the program which will do what I want. I know that linux has a rich set of programs and many will do the same things. However learning the names and what they do is a big challenge. Is there someplace where there is a list of the programs and what they do or a x ref between the one windows program and the many linux programs.
That's an extraordinary statement. Would you mind giving me an example of something for which there is only one windows program?
Internet Explorer or Windows Update. <gdr>
On Monday 23 August 2004 20:14, Mike McMullin wrote:
On Mon, 2004-08-23 at 11:37, Anders Johansson wrote:
On Monday 23 August 2004 17:50, Robert A. Rawlinson wrote:
What I mean is the names of programs. When I want to do something I do not know the name of the program which will do what I want. I know that linux has a rich set of programs and many will do the same things. However learning the names and what they do is a big challenge. Is there someplace where there is a list of the programs and what they do or a x ref between the one windows program and the many linux programs.
That's an extraordinary statement. Would you mind giving me an example of something for which there is only one windows program?
Tip a glance at this site: http://linuxshop.ru/linuxbegin/win-lin-soft-en/table.shtml -- JAY VOLLMER JVOLLMER@CONSOLIDATEDLINT.COM TEXT REFS DOUBLEPLUSUNGOOD SELFTHINK VERGING CRIMETHINK IGNORE FULLWISE
On Monday 23 August 2004 07:37 am, Anders Johansson wrote:
On Monday 23 August 2004 17:50, Robert A. Rawlinson wrote:
What I mean is the names of programs. When I want to do something I do not know the name of the program which will do what I want. I know that linux has a rich set of programs and many will do the same things. However learning the names and what they do is a big challenge. Is there someplace where there is a list of the programs and what they do or a x ref between the one windows program and the many linux programs.
That's an extraordinary statement. Would you mind giving me an example of something for which there is only one windows program?
Also, how do you go about learning which windows programs will do the trick? You can't tell me you think "excel" is a logical and straightforward name for a spreadsheet application now can you
Stop trying to pick a fight. It doesn't matter what YOU think of the name Excel, the fact of the matter is that 97% of ALL Desktop computer users are familiar with that name, and know exactly what it means just as they know what Word, Notepad, Wordpad, calc, winipcfg, regedit etc are. The OP's point is VERY Valid, and there is nothing more frustrating than sitting in linux trying to figure out what the program you want is, and knowing only the windows name for it. This page helps: http://linuxshop.ru/linuxbegin/win-lin-soft-en/table.shtml -- _____________________________________ John Andersen
On Tuesday 24 August 2004 04:38, John Andersen wrote:
Stop trying to pick a fight.
I wasn't, I was trying to make a point.
It doesn't matter what YOU think of the name Excel, the fact of the matter is that 97% of ALL Desktop computer users are familiar with that name, and know exactly what it means just as they know what Word, Notepad, Wordpad, calc, winipcfg, regedit etc are.
That wasn't what I asked. First of all, I really question your statement that all windows users know what winipcfg or regedit is. Most regular (non-tech) users have very little in the way of a clue. The fact that 97% of users run windows is not the same as saying 97% of users know what the program names are, a lot of them just know which icon to click Secondly, as I said, this wasn't my question at all. I asked *how* have they learned it. You can't look at a name like "excel" and instantly know that it's a spreadsheet. They learn over time, by asking questions like "what program do I use if I want to do <something>". They learn by reading articles in magazines, and they learn by searching software sites like shareware.com and similar. Perhaps they even try to run the program to see what it does. This is something they pick up over time, no first-time user will know it all. And the point I was trying to make is that the process is exactly identical in linux
The OP's point is VERY Valid,
I know it is, I even answered it, in my other mail in this thread
and there is nothing more frustrating than sitting in linux trying to figure out what the program you want is, and knowing only the windows name for it.
but that's the wrong way to think. 99.99% of the time, what you want isn't "to run a program", it's "to do <something>". The idea shouldn't be to search for "a program that does what WinXXX does", it should be to search for "a program that will help me accomplish <something>". And the way you do that is absolutely identical to the way you do it in windows. You read magazines, you go to software sites like freshmeat, you ask friends who know
Anders Johansson wrote:
On Tuesday 24 August 2004 04:38, John Andersen wrote:
Stop trying to pick a fight.
I wasn't, I was trying to make a point.
It doesn't matter what YOU think of the name Excel, the fact of the matter is that 97% of ALL Desktop computer users are familiar with that name, and know exactly what it means just as they know what Word, Notepad, Wordpad, calc, winipcfg, regedit etc are.
That wasn't what I asked.
First of all, I really question your statement that all windows users know what winipcfg or regedit is. Most regular (non-tech) users have very little in the way of a clue. The fact that 97% of users run windows is not the same as saying 97% of users know what the program names are, a lot of them just know which icon to click
Secondly, as I said, this wasn't my question at all. I asked *how* have they learned it. You can't look at a name like "excel" and instantly know that it's a spreadsheet. They learn over time, by asking questions like "what program do I use if I want to do <something>". They learn by reading articles in magazines, and they learn by searching software sites like shareware.com and similar. Perhaps they even try to run the program to see what it does. This is something they pick up over time, no first-time user will know it all.
And the point I was trying to make is that the process is exactly identical in linux
The OP's point is VERY Valid,
I know it is, I even answered it, in my other mail in this thread
and there is nothing more frustrating than sitting in linux trying to figure out what the program you want is, and knowing only the windows name for it.
but that's the wrong way to think. 99.99% of the time, what you want isn't "to run a program", it's "to do <something>". The idea shouldn't be to search for "a program that does what WinXXX does", it should be to search for "a program that will help me accomplish <something>". And the way you do that is absolutely identical to the way you do it in windows. You read magazines, you go to software sites like freshmeat, you ask friends who know
How right you are, I was horrified the first time an obviously experienced Windows user asked what FAT32 was as I thought such a guy would have had more of a clue about it than I. Some Windows users are blinded to the fact that a different operating system is, well, DIFFERENT. If it's approached with that simple understanding, then the learning curve isn't that steep and frustration does not rear its head - they approach it with a mindset that says, new aeroplane, I've got to learn how to handle it, read all about it, ask questions and put in the effort to become skilled. A sizeable proportion of experienced Linux users came from DOS/Windows without knowing what Unix was, even the "Class of '98", the dumbest I've seen (apologies to those guys), initially asked questions like how to make a .bat file and within a month those guys were fully switched on to Linux - it was a pleasure to have got a call from a guy back in 1997 who wanted to build a new kernel to get a new piece of hardware working and didn't know where to start, 10 minutes at most on the phone and later the email came saying everything was fine. My guess is that the simplicity now available in installing a distro has lulled some current guys into believing they are running a Windows clone, giving a Powerpoint presentation to a class, one guy asked me if I was using XP -- no way, this is Linux and he was amazed. Regards Sid. -- Sid Boyce .... Hamradio G3VBV and keen Flyer =====LINUX ONLY USED HERE=====
On Tuesday 24 August 2004 04:27 am, Anders Johansson wrote:
This is something they pick up over time, no first-time user will know it all.
And the point I was trying to make is that the process is exactly identical in linux
No, its not identical. You are asking them to go thru the entire learning curve again. Thats silly. Human civilation doesn't progress that way. We build on our past knowledge and allow for the differences in the situation. When the typical user first learned about Excel, (or yes, even winipcfg) they also learned a concept that they never heard of before. They don't need to re-learn the concept of a spread sheet. When coming to Linux, they know that there exists an analog of these things. They are positive it exists. They just don't know the name. They don't need to re-learn spread sheets, they just want to know the name of the (any) linux spread sheet. They already know exactly what they need, and they can figure out how to use it even if it differs somewhat from the windows program they used before. But before they can do that they need to know the name so they can fire it up. -- _____________________________________ John Andersen
John wrote regarding 'Re: [SLE] The trouble converting from win to suse is the names' on Wed, Aug 25 at 01:36:
On Tuesday 24 August 2004 04:27 am, Anders Johansson wrote:
This is something they pick up over time, no first-time user will know it all.
And the point I was trying to make is that the process is exactly identical in linux
No, its not identical.
You are asking them to go thru the entire learning curve again. Thats silly. Human civilation doesn't progress that way. We build on our past knowledge and allow for the differences in the situation.
Not the whole learning curve - just the part where bad habits inflicted by a badly designed system are forgotten. :) Mistaken preconceptions are not the same thing as past knowledge... --Danny, feeding the fire
Op woensdag 25 augustus 2004 08:33, schreef John Andersen: (snippety snip>
They don't need to re-learn spread sheets, they just want to know the name of the (any) linux spread sheet. They already know exactly what they need, and they can figure out how to use it even if it differs somewhat from the windows program they used before. But before they can do that they need to know the name so they can fire it up.
So the only new name they need to learn is "google". Then they type $WINDOWS_PROG_NAME linux in the google search box and they find like half a dozen alternatives. *Now* they got a different problem. :-) But let's take them one at a time. -- Jos van Kan
At 10:33 PM 8/24/2004 -0800, John Andersen wrote:
On Tuesday 24 August 2004 04:27 am, Anders Johansson wrote:
This is something they pick up over time, no first-time user will know it all.
And the point I was trying to make is that the process is exactly identical in linux
No, its not identical.
You are asking them to go thru the entire learning curve again. Thats silly. Human civilation doesn't progress that way. We build on our past knowledge and allow for the differences in the situation.
When the typical user first learned about Excel, (or yes, even winipcfg) they also learned a concept that they never heard of before.
They don't need to re-learn the concept of a spread sheet.
When coming to Linux, they know that there exists an analog of these things. They are positive it exists. They just don't know the name.
They don't need to re-learn spread sheets, they just want to know the name of the (any) linux spread sheet. They already know exactly what they need, and they can figure out how to use it even if it differs somewhat from the windows program they used before. But before they can do that they need to know the name so they can fire it up.
-- _____________________________________ John Andersen
I suspect that a lot of this problem, for those who may have it, would go away if they would go to Google>Linux and search for spreadsheet, or graphics, or mathematics, or whatever. Maybe not all, but most. --doug
On Monday 23 August 2004 17:50, Robert A. Rawlinson wrote:
What I mean is the names of programs. When I want to do something I do not know the name of the program which will do what I want. I know that linux has a rich set of programs and many will do the same things. However learning the names and what they do is a big challenge. Is there someplace where there is a list of the programs and what they do or a x ref between the one windows program and the many linux programs.
In addition to my previous mail (that I really would like answered), in an effort to avoid charges of "not being constructive", let me tell you what I do When I find an application I know nothing about, I go to freshmeat.org and search for the name. In 99% of the cases, that will give me a brief description of the program, plus a link to the home page of it In the few cases where the program isn't listed on freshmeat, I use google to find the program's home page In addition, the package manager nearly always has a (very) brief text describing what the program is about
Anders wrote regarding 'Re: [SLE] The trouble converting from win to suse is the names' on Mon, Aug 23 at 10:49: [...]
When I find an application I know nothing about, I go to freshmeat.org and search for the name. In 99% of the cases, that will give me a brief description of the program, plus a link to the home page of it
I think you may have meant freshmeat.net... I make that mistake regularly. :) --Danny, who likes freshmeat.net
On Monday 23 August 2004 18:03, Danny Sauer wrote:
Anders wrote regarding 'Re: [SLE] The trouble converting from win to suse is the names' on Mon, Aug 23 at 10:49: [...]
When I find an application I know nothing about, I go to freshmeat.org and search for the name. In 99% of the cases, that will give me a brief description of the program, plus a link to the home page of it
I think you may have meant freshmeat.net... I make that mistake regularly. :)
Ack, yes, thanks. I always forget that because I so rarely actually type it. I usually just do "fm:<search terms>" in konqueror
On Mon August 23 2004 11:07 am, Anders Johansson wrote:
On Monday 23 August 2004 18:03, Danny Sauer wrote:
Anders wrote regarding 'Re: [SLE] The trouble converting from win to suse is the names' on Mon, Aug 23 at 10:49: [...]
When I find an application I know nothing about, I go to freshmeat.org and search for the name. In 99% of the cases, that will give me a brief description of the program, plus a link to the home page of it
I think you may have meant freshmeat.net... I make that mistake regularly.
:)
Ack, yes, thanks.
I always forget that because I so rarely actually type it. I usually just do "fm:<search terms>" in konqueror
Another excellent reason to use Konqueror also: Web Shortcuts. Not to mention all the service short cuts such as smb:/, file:/, ftp:/, etc. Stan
Anders wrote regarding 'Re: [SLE] The trouble converting from win to suse is the names' on Mon, Aug 23 at 11:08:
On Monday 23 August 2004 18:03, Danny Sauer wrote:
Anders wrote regarding 'Re: [SLE] The trouble converting from win to suse is the names' on Mon, Aug 23 at 10:49: [...]
When I find an application I know nothing about, I go to freshmeat.org and search for the name. In 99% of the cases, that will give me a brief description of the program, plus a link to the home page of it
I think you may have meant freshmeat.net... I make that mistake regularly. :)
Ack, yes, thanks.
I always forget that because I so rarely actually type it. I usually just do "fm:<search terms>" in konqueror
Between fm: and gg:, it's a wonder I remember any FQDNs anymore. :) Konqueror rocks. --Danny
On Monday 23 August 2004 18:03, Danny Sauer wrote:
Anders wrote regarding 'Re: [SLE] The trouble converting from win to suse is the names' on Mon, Aug 23 at 10:49: [...]
When I find an application I know nothing about, I go to freshmeat.org and search for the name. In 99% of the cases, that will give me a brief description of the program, plus a link to the home page of it
I think you may have meant freshmeat.net... I make that mistake regularly.
:)
Ack, yes, thanks.
I always forget that because I so rarely actually type it. I usually just do "fm:<search terms>" in konqueror Would you explain what "fm:<search terms>" means and give an example on how to use it?
On Monday 23 August 2004 06:07 am, Anders Johansson wrote: thanks, Jerome
On Monday 23 August 2004 20:19, Jerome Lyles wrote:
Would you explain what "fm:<search terms>" means and give an example on how to use it?
It's a web shortcut. Konqueror has lots of them, Danny mentioned gg:, which is a shortcut you can use instead of going to www.google.com, entering your search terms in the box and clicking "go", you just type "gg:foo" to search for foo on google. Other shortcuts are ggi: for google images, av: for an altavista search, imdb: for the internet movie database, and so on. In konqueror, go to "Settings->Configure konqueror->web shortcuts" for all shortcuts currently configured. You can also add your own there. An example of how to use it would be, in the address bar of konqueror fm:vegastrike when you hit enter, you will have launched a search on freshmeat.net for a very cool game
Thanks Danny that is a good site. Bob Danny Sauer wrote:
Anders wrote regarding 'Re: [SLE] The trouble converting from win to suse is the names' on Mon, Aug 23 at 10:49: [...]
When I find an application I know nothing about, I go to freshmeat.org and search for the name. In 99% of the cases, that will give me a brief description of the program, plus a link to the home page of it
I think you may have meant freshmeat.net... I make that mistake regularly. :)
--Danny, who likes freshmeat.net
In a previous message, "Robert A. Rawlinson"
When I want to do something I do not know the name of the program which will do what I want.
Three simple ways to find an application to perform a given task. 1) Use the main panel menu (roughly equivalent to the Windows Start menu). The applications are collected into logical groups depending on the tasks they do, so you should be able to find an application if it's already installed (and many are by default). 2) Use the YaST software installation tool to search the installation media based on whatever keywords you can think of, or (again) use the logical groupings of software in the software list. 3) Use the SUSE Help Center and search it or use the subject listing. Also, you could try a simple internet search if none of those work (e.g. "disk format linux"). HTH John -- John Pettigrew Headstrong Games john@headstrong-games.co.uk Fun : Strategy : Price http://www.headstrong-games.co.uk/ Board games that won't break the bank Valley of the Kings: ransack an ancient Egyptian tomb but beware of mummies!
Mandag den 23. august 2004 17:50 skrev Robert A. Rawlinson:
What I mean is the names of programs. When I want to do something I do not know the name of the program which will do what I want. I know that linux has a rich set of programs and many will do the same things. However learning the names and what they do is a big challenge. Is there someplace where there is a list of the programs and what they do or a x ref between the one windows program and the many linux programs. Bob
Well hopefully this list can help you some of the way: http://linuxshop.ru/linuxbegin/win-lin-soft-en/table.shtml Else search on "<Subject> for linux" in google and you'll be served Johan
Robert A. Rawlinson Phoenix Data
On Monday 23 August 2004 17:50, Robert A. Rawlinson wrote:
What I mean is the names of programs. When I want to do something I do not know the name of the program which will do what I want. Have a look at this page:
http://gnuwin.epfl.ch/apps/en/index.html It will give you a feel of what's available, and you can also use the packages listed there in windows. -- Kind regards Hans du Plooy Newington Consulting Services hansdp at newingtoncs dot co dot za
participants (14)
-
Anders Johansson -
Danny Sauer -
Doug McGarrett -
Hans du Plooy -
Jay Vollmer -
Jerome Lyles -
Johan Nielsen -
John Andersen -
John Pettigrew -
Jos van Kan -
Mike McMullin -
Robert A. Rawlinson -
Sid Boyce -
SRGlasoe