[opensuse] KDE 4.1

Chris Arnold

29 Jul 2008 29 Jul '08

22:22

Opensuse 11 with kde 4.1 (now)...And still very disappointed in kde 4.1. Widgets still don't work. Still can't copy stuff to the desktop without using a file manager. Still can't right click something on the desktop and "send to trash". Still kontact does not work right for me (connection times out). Ark still does not work right...And on and on and on. I usually stay quiet about this but i thought with 4.1 things were going to be different (at least some). Just so i make sure i am updating from the right repo, i update using http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/KDE4:/Factory:/Desktop/openSU.... Is this where i should be updating? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

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Clayton

30 Jul 30 Jul

05:08

I have 4.1 and it's working fine. The only major issue is some probs related to the nVidia drivers - a known problem with some workarounds posted here: http://techbase.kde.org/User:Lemma/GPU-Performance

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Widgets still don't work.

Which widgets? All? Specific ones? How are they not working?

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Still can't copy stuff to the desktop without using a file manager. Still can't right click something on the desktop and "send to trash".

This is known... and was not scheduled to be fixed in 4.1 (as was discussed here on the list).

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Still kontact does not work right for me (connection times out). Ark still does not work right...

Exactly how? Kontact works OK for me - I use KMail all the time with no problems... not that I've noticed (I still have to double check sending HTML vs Plain text as was reported in another message). Ark works OK too when I tested it.

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Just so i make sure i am updating from the right repo, i update using http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/KDE4:/Factory:/Desktop/openSU.... Is this where i should be updating?

And.... /repositories/KDE:/KDE4:/Factory:/Extra-Apps/openSUSE_11.0 /repositories/KDE:/KDE4:/Community/openSUSE_11.0_KDE4_UNSTABLE_Desktop/ /repositories/KDE:/KDE4:/UNSTABLE:/Desktop/openSUSE_11.0/ /repositories/KDE:/KDE4:/UNSTABLE:/Extra-Apps/openSUSE_11.0/ plus maybe a few others in that same /repositories/KDE:/KDE4 tree. Some look like duplications, but I do see small differences in the apps available. I have all of the repos in the /repositories/KDE:/KDE4 tree loaded, and pick up the latest builds from each, and this has been working well... I even got back the missing widgets I liked... like the Picture Frame one (shows a slideshow on the desktop). C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

kanenas＠hawaii.rr.com

11:53

On Tuesday 29 July 2008 12:22:23 pm Chris Arnold wrote:

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Opensuse 11 with kde 4.1 (now)...And still very disappointed in kde 4.1. Widgets still don't work. Still can't copy stuff to the desktop without using a file manager. Still can't right click something on the desktop and "send to trash". Still kontact does not work right for me (connection times out). Ark still does not work right...And on and on and on. I usually stay quiet about this but i thought with 4.1 things were going to be different (at least some). Just so i make sure i am updating from the right repo, i update using http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/KDE4:/Factory:/Desktop/openS USE_11.0/. Is this where i should be updating?

a couple of hours ago i tried the 1 click install of kde4.1 . something must be wrong with the 1 click, as I can not get a file manager window up in 4.1. tried dolphin, "my computer", filemanager as su, they all produce the dying bouncing ball that ....dies! second, can't find a way to change the number of desktops or put a different background on one of the two existing ones, so right off the bat i see basic problems, two out of...two!!!. All is well with my system when I switch to kde 3.5. My 11.0 is a fresh install with very few alterations, added kernel source, syms, make(!!!!), gcc, removed beagle, added vmware server 1.06,fully updated, tried the opensdk and icetea 64 bit java plugins, neither can let me get on my online financial account (the 32 bit plugin works just fine in my 32 bit 10.3). kde 4.1 has gone up in numbers from 4.0, yet it seems so un-prepared for basic functionality. At the very least the 1 click install is very deficient, especially after it declared that installation was completed successfully. kde 4.1 can *not* be that inadequate, yet the inability to properly install is itself a major flaw... ok, let's start looking for the problems, i am sure they will be plenty still... These gosh darned youngsters just can't get it in their mind that something has got to *work* before we add "features" to it...what a concept, eh? d. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Clayton

12:23

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a couple of hours ago i tried the 1 click install of kde4.1 . something must be wrong with the 1 click, as I can not get a file manager window up in 4.1

There is a known problem with the repo servers. Was in another thread from a couple of hours ago. .

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can't find a way to change the number of desktops

System Settings > Desktop > Multiple Desktops

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or put a different background on one of the two existing ones,

Not included yet. Last I read it's planned for a future release.

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All is well with my system when I switch to kde 3.5.

KDE3.5 was not a ground up re-write to QT4... KDE4 was. Give it a chance. "Missing" features are coming back all the time.

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kde 4.1 has gone up in numbers from 4.0, yet it seems so un-prepared for basic functionality.

Works fine here - I use KDE4.1 every day all day long as my regular home user desktop, and now as my home work desktop Things are different, but there is no core fundamental functionality thst is missing that makes KDE unusable. It's, in my opinion, a lot more usable than any version of Gnome I use (I use Gnome on my 2nd home computer, and on my work computer in the office). Basic functionality? What is basic functionality? The fact you cannot yet set a different wallpaper on desktop two is not that critical... definitely not a make-or-break for functionality. The main thing I can see that is broken is how the desktop works.. in that you cannot yet use the Desktop as a temp storage bucket for random files. The KDE guys are planning a fix, and from what i understand we can expect it to be working around 4.2.

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kde 4.1 can *not* be that inadequate, yet the inability to properly install is itself a major flaw...

So... do it "right" (or different depending on how you look at it) and add the KDE Factory and Community repos to YaST and update to 4.1 there. Of course you'll have to wait until the repo servers are fixed :-) C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

John Andersen

16:57

On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 5:23 AM, Clayton wrote:

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a couple of hours ago i tried the 1 click install of kde4.1 . something must be wrong with the 1 click, as I can not get a file manager window up in 4.1

There is a known problem with the repo servers. Was in another thread from a couple of hours ago.

.

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can't find a way to change the number of desktops

System Settings > Desktop > Multiple Desktops

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or put a different background on one of the two existing ones,

Not included yet. Last I read it's planned for a future release.

...
All is well with my system when I switch to kde 3.5.

KDE3.5 was not a ground up re-write to QT4... KDE4 was. Give it a chance. "Missing" features are coming back all the time.

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kde 4.1 has gone up in numbers from 4.0, yet it seems so un-prepared for basic functionality.

Works fine here - I use KDE4.1 every day all day long as my regular home user desktop, and now as my home work desktop Things are different, but there is no core fundamental functionality thst is missing that makes KDE unusable. It's, in my opinion, a lot more usable than any version of Gnome I use (I use Gnome on my 2nd home computer, and on my work computer in the office).

Basic functionality? What is basic functionality? The fact you cannot yet set a different wallpaper on desktop two is not that critical... definitely not a make-or-break for functionality.

Sigh... Another apologist for a pathetic system. People who have a lot of stuff going on rely on different wallpapers to quickly tell them where they are without having to peek at the pager to figure which desktop they are on. If you are happy with Gnome, you will like KDE4. Yes, its THAT much of a backward step. It has another two point releases to go before it will equal the functionality and flexibility of KDE3.5. And Clayton, please stop with this "core fundamental functionality" crap. That is VERY transparent wording for "woefully incomplete", and you are not fooling anyone. TWM had CORE functionality. XFCE has CORE functionality. Its pretty insulting for you to tell every new user reporting missing features the STFU and just use it because it does everything YOU like. -- ----------JSA--------- There are 10 kinds of people in this world, those that can read binary and those that can't. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Clayton

18:01

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Its pretty insulting for you to tell every new user reporting missing features the STFU and just use it because it does everything YOU like.

Not once have I said STFU (not even to you John, although I've been tempted). I did ask people (mainly you John) to stop moaning, but that is not STFU. We all know you hate KDE4, and that's fine. Continue hating it. I don't care. Go use KDE3.5 or Gnome or E17 or one of the dozens of other window managers.. no one is stopping you. I use KDE4.1 now, and it works very well. Yes you can't yet set different wallpaper for each desktop... so what... that's not core functionality.. more like convenience, but not core. And... it's a feature that will be added in an upcoming release... just like all the other bits that need to be added. I try to help people with KDE4... I ask for clarification on problems... answer questions... point out where KDE4 is missing functions that people are looking for. Whatever. C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Rajko M.

19:44

On Wednesday 30 July 2008 01:01:43 pm Clayton wrote:

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I try to help people with KDE4... I ask for clarification on problems... answer questions... point out where KDE4 is missing functions that people are looking for.

And that is all people posting questions on this list want to hear, not someone's personal preference. Everyone of us prefers some software and dislike other, and if we all would take liberty and give comments, this list will have hundreds of useless emails on each question. -- Regards, Rajko http://en.opensuse.org/Portal needs helpful hands. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

John Andersen

20:08

On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 11:01 AM, Clayton wrote:

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I did ask people (mainly you John) to stop moaning, but that is not STFU.

That's a distinction without a difference. Any objection is met with "stop moaning". Any mention of missing features is met with "not a core function". You are a broken record. Why must we be silent to please you? Why must we settle for only "core" functions? I've been quiet about this issue for several weeks, expecting the promised improvement once 4.1 was released. Its not happening. Its clear that the bitch level is not declining, its clear that basic stuff we've all come to expect in KDE is still missing, and its clear from reading all the media articles on this issue that KDE4 is universally regarded as a step backward, and released at least 18months too early. Universally, that is, except for a few kde team members and associated fanboys who continue to shout down objections. -- ----------JSA--------- There are 10 kinds of people in this world, those that can read binary and those that can't. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Patrick Shanahan

20:38

* John Andersen [07-30-08 16:14]:

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I've been quiet about this issue for several weeks,

"about this issue" Yes, and very welcome!

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expecting the promised improvement once 4.1 was released. Its not happening. Its clear that the bitch level is not declining,

It was until....

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its clear that basic stuff we've all come to expect in KDE is still missing, and its clear from reading all the media articles on this issue that KDE4 is universally regarded as a step backward, and released at least 18months too early.

more opinion

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Universally, that is, except for a few kde team members and associated fanboys who continue to shout down objections.

Constructive (not constrictive) criticism has been welcomed and with bug reports and requested enhancements. The "spew" has not. Please take heed. -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

John Andersen

20:47

On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 1:38 PM, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

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Constructive (not constrictive) criticism has been welcomed and with bug reports and requested enhancements.

The "spew" has not. Please take heed.

That sounds like a threat Patrick. So it is STFU after all isn't it? -- ----------JSA--------- There are 10 kinds of people in this world, those that can read binary and those that can't. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Rajko M.

31 Jul 31 Jul

00:01

On Wednesday 30 July 2008 03:47:11 pm John Andersen wrote:

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On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 1:38 PM, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

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Constructive (not constrictive) criticism has been welcomed and with bug reports and requested enhancements.

The "spew" has not. Please take heed.

That sounds like a threat Patrick. So it is STFU after all isn't it?

Me again John, if you want to keep discussion off topic, use off-topic list, please. Topic in this thread was help to get KDE4 4.1 running, nothing else, until you came in. -- Regards, Rajko http://en.opensuse.org/Portal needs helpful hands. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

peter nikolic

07:01

On Wednesday 30 July 2008, Clayton wrote:

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Its pretty insulting for you to tell every new user reporting missing features the STFU and just use it because it does everything YOU like.

Not once have I said STFU (not even to you John, although I've been tempted). I did ask people (mainly you John) to stop moaning, but that is not STFU. We all know you hate KDE4, and that's fine. Continue hating it. I don't care. Go use KDE3.5 or Gnome or E17 or one of the dozens of other window managers.. no one is stopping you.

I use KDE4.1 now, and it works very well. Yes you can't yet set different wallpaper for each desktop... so what... that's not core functionality.. more like convenience, but not core. And... it's a feature that will be added in an upcoming release... just like all the other bits that need to be added.

I try to help people with KDE4... I ask for clarification on problems... answer questions... point out where KDE4 is missing functions that people are looking for.

Whatever.

C.

one of these days these so called defenders of a very sick desktop will get the message that KDE4.X if so devoid of useability it is untrue as has been stated it is like Gnome brain dead and should still be in at tops beta phase same as 11.0 is still not release ready even thou it has been released and now they got 11.1 out there well give it 2 years and it will be ready . Pete . -- SuSE Linux 10.3-Alpha3. (Linux is like a wigwam - no Gates, no Windows, and an Apache inside.) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

kanenas＠hawaii.rr.com

30 Jul 30 Jul

22:38

On Wednesday 30 July 2008 02:23:53 am Clayton wrote:

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a couple of hours ago i tried the 1 click install of kde4.1 . something must be wrong with the 1 click, as I can not get a file manager window up in 4.1

There is a known problem with the repo servers. Was in another thread from a couple of hours ago.

"known" for a .... couple of hours (!!!!!) is supposed to mean what? If it becomes "known", someone should disable the one click install until fixed, no? come to think of it, my negative comments wouldn't be on this thread if someone had actually stopped a faulty download....

...

.

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can't find a way to change the number of desktops

System Settings > Desktop > Multiple Desktops

Why was this removed from the oh so bland and conventional right click on the desktop >configure desktop popup? Little arbitrary crap like that *discourages* many....

...

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or put a different background on one of the two existing ones,

Not included yet. Last I read it's planned for a future release.

That can *not* be a big technical issue, yet it can be rather irritating. What's the use of having 5 desktops if one has to sift thru all 5 in order to find an open app? different wallpaper is almost essential once you go past 2 desktops

...

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All is well with my system when I switch to kde 3.5.

KDE3.5 was not a ground up re-write to QT4... KDE4 was. Give it a chance. "Missing" features are coming back all the time.

I *never* said anything about KDE4 before. A complete rewrite must be given time. HOWEVER: 4.0xxxxxx was the place (and time) for all the "little" and most "big" items to be addressed... Please excuse me for expecting a functional system after 4.0 graduated to 4.1!!!! Could you possibly explain a couple of things on this renumbering, many like me have a hard time understanding it.

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kde 4.1 has gone up in numbers from 4.0, yet it seems so un-prepared for basic functionality.

Works fine here - I use KDE4.1 every day all day long as my regular home user desktop, and now as my home work desktop

GOOD for you!!! I am back at 3.5.

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Things are different, but there is no core fundamental functionality thst is missing that makes KDE unusable.

If being unuseable is your rejection criterion, the bar seems to be pretty low.

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It's, in my opinion, a lot more usable than any version of Gnome I use (I use Gnome on my 2nd home computer, and on my work computer in the office).

Basic functionality? What is basic functionality?

basic access to a file manager for starters?

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The fact you cannot yet set a different wallpaper on desktop two is not that critical... definitely not a make-or-break for functionality.

it *is* make or break for the 6 desktops i normally run.

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The main thing I can see that is broken is how the desktop works.

you said it......

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. in that you cannot yet use the Desktop as a temp storage bucket for random files. The KDE guys are planning a fix, and from what i understand we can expect it to be working around 4.2.

It must be wonderful to make these great leaps and bounds, from 4.0 all the way to 4.2 in ......*six* bug fixes.... At this rate, perhaps kde 7.5 will have all the wonderfulness of qt4 and the functionality of kde 3.5!!!!!! This is getting real scary, some of the horrors forecast about microsoft's influence after the "collaboration" agreement between novel and ms was announced, seem to be coming out loud and clear!!!!who is benefiting from this?

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kde 4.1 can *not* be that inadequate, yet the inability to properly install is itself a major flaw...

So... do it "right"

do what right? I FOLLOWED CORRECT PROCEDURE when I installed 4.1, what part of that don't you get?

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(or different depending on how you look at it) and add the KDE Factory and Community repos to YaST and update to 4.1 there. Of course you'll have to wait until the repo servers are fixed

no thanks, I don't have to wait. I thought I had waited enough thru all the 4.0 issues, now it is dissappointing to see that 4.1 is sub par for my standards.

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:-)

C.

kde4 might eventually end up at the top, but I am afraid that either by design or by foolishness it will have a very hard time surviving. whoever decides what to release, what to fix, what to call it and when to release is causing very serious damage. we can only hope that it is not intentional and that lessons from mistakes can be learned. after all, it might be someone's stubborness and not ms who is behind the present state of the fiasco... d. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

John Layt

31 Jul 31 Jul

22:04

On Wednesday 30 July 2008, kanenas@hawaii.rr.com wrote:

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can't find a way to change the number of desktops

System Settings > Desktop > Multiple Desktops

Why was this removed from the oh so bland and conventional right click on the desktop >configure desktop popup? Little arbitrary crap like that *discourages* many....

Try right click on the Pager applet in the Panel and choose Configure Desktops, which seems a far more intuitive place for it to be. There is a distinction made between configuring an individual desktop and configuring the number of desktops, albeit the first is not fully implemented yet. The first you are likely to want to do fairly often, the second only once in a blue moon. I didn't know it was there, it just took me 2 seconds to make an educated guess and have a look for it. Really, it's not that hard, it just takes a willingness to try new stuff, which is where we all first started with KDE, right?

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or put a different background on one of the two existing ones,

Not included yet. Last I read it's planned for a future release.

That can *not* be a big technical issue, yet it can be rather irritating. What's the use of having 5 desktops if one has to sift thru all 5 in order to find an open app? different wallpaper is almost essential once you go past 2 desktops

Planned for 4.2, it's not just setting a different wallpaper per desktop, but will also enable you to set a different theme per desktop to really make the difference clear. I think you will even be able to have different Panel and Applet configurations for each desktop, but don't quote me on that. So it is a big technical issue, one I'd say is worth a minor inconvenience for now. But I'm not sure I understand your use case here, can you explain more? How can having different wallpapers help you find which desktop an app is open on? I can see it helping when you are on a desktop and want to know which one it is (unless like me you run everything either fully maximised or multiple windows arranged to use all the desktop), but not in what you describe above. I just look at the pager to see which desktop is highlighted to tell me where I am, and have the pager Display Window Icons option enabled to see what apps I have in which desktop. John. -- -- Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

John Andersen

22:52

On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 3:04 PM, John Layt wrote:

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On Wednesday 30 July 2008, kanenas@hawaii.rr.com wrote:

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...
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can't find a way to change the number of desktops

System Settings > Desktop > Multiple Desktops

Why was this removed from the oh so bland and conventional right click on the desktop >configure desktop popup? Little arbitrary crap like that *discourages* many....

Try right click on the Pager applet in the Panel and choose Configure Desktops, which seems a far more intuitive place for it to be.

Intuitive to who? A mac user with only one mouse button? Every other desktop system Ive used (or YOU've used, I dare say) has the configuration option available by a right click on the desktop itself. Not some pager, which many people do not even use. (Oops, can't turn the pager off can we?) Why hide this functionality? Isn't that one of the big hits on vista, the lengths to which MS went to hide and re-hide basic functionality?

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But I'm not sure I understand your use case here, can you explain more? How can having different wallpapers help you find which desktop an app is open on? I can see it helping when you are on a desktop and want to know which one it is (unless like me you run everything either fully maximised or multiple windows arranged to use all the desktop), but not in what you describe above. I just look at the pager to see which desktop is highlighted to tell me where I am, and have the pager Display Window Icons option enabled to see what apps I have in which desktop.

Lets assume the OP posts his use of this feature. Lets assume you don't agree with his solution. Does that mean its less valid? For instance, I have root shells open on several different boxes at once at one of my work stations. Everything for the RED company has a red background wallpaper. BLUE company ditto. Mouse wheel over desktop switches desktop is checked. Very fast to find blue company's ssh shell and monitor windows, etc. No reading. Just roll mouse till color is right. Those capabilities were added to prior versions for a REASON. Similar capabilities were added to Gnome, FCE4, and every other competent desktop. Why abandon them and then get all pissy when people bitch? Why not start with what you have and expand on that instead of starting over with each new release. What would Linus do? Would he re-write the kernel from the ground up for a new release? Would he hide functionality just to be different with total disregard for user efficiency? -- ----------JSA--------- There are 10 kinds of people in this world, those that can read binary and those that can't. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

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participants (8)

Chris Arnold
Clayton
John Andersen
John Layt
kanenas＠hawaii.rr.com
Patrick Shanahan
peter nikolic
Rajko M.

[opensuse] KDE 4.1

Chris Arnold

Clayton

kanenas＠hawaii.rr.com

Clayton

John Andersen

Clayton

Rajko M.

John Andersen

Patrick Shanahan

John Andersen

Rajko M.

peter nikolic

kanenas＠hawaii.rr.com

John Layt

John Andersen

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