[opensuse] Is it possible to remove a disappeared Panel, and install a new one?
It is really difficult to operate without the Panel that has vanished, because it contains the virtual desktops. If I could destroy the thing and make a new one, and could emplace the applets on it as they were, life would be much easier. Can that be done? -- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 2008/03/30 01:07 (GMT+0300) Stan Goodman apparently typed:
It is really difficult to operate without the Panel that has vanished, because it contains the virtual desktops. If I could destroy the thing and make a new one, and could emplace the applets on it as they were, life would be much easier. Can that be done?
You can simulate creating a new user by deleting various dirs in $HOME. First, while logged out, I'd try mv .kde/share/config/kickerrc .kde/share/config/kickerrc-old then logging in to see if it doesn't give it back. If that didn't help, I'd see if mv .kde .kde-bak would do it. That will cause most or all you KDE settings to be forgotten, but for me putting them all back usually only takes me a couple of minutes. ./config & .kderc are other possibilities. -- "Let us not love with words or in talk only. Let us love by what we do." 1 John 3:18 NLV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sunday 30 March 2008 01:34:13 Felix Miata wrote:
On 2008/03/30 01:07 (GMT+0300) Stan Goodman apparently typed:
It is really difficult to operate without the Panel that has vanished, because it contains the virtual desktops. If I could destroy the thing and make a new one, and could emplace the applets on it as they were, life would be much easier. Can that be done?
You can simulate creating a new user by deleting various dirs in $HOME. First, while logged out, I'd try
mv .kde/share/config/kickerrc .kde/share/config/kickerrc-old
then logging in to see if it doesn't give it back. If that didn't help, I'd see if
mv .kde .kde-bak
would do it. That will cause most or all you KDE settings to be forgotten, but for me putting them all back usually only takes me a couple of minutes. ./config & .kderc are other possibilities.
It's a thought. Another thought is that something like this that has happened once can always happen again, and perhaps I should think about junking KDE altogether, and try Gnome. A small survey of administrators of enterprise Linux systems has told me that KDE is considered flakey (which I am now prepared to believe). Also someone posted here yesterday the observation that he has also seen disappearances like this happen (I have to say that I have never seen such a thing in any of the other OSes either I or my neighbors have operated). Who knows? Maybe Gnome is more stable; it is certainly worth a try. How can I go about removing KDE and starting Gnome, while causing minimum disturbance to the installed application software? -- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Stan Goodman a écrit :
Another thought is that something like this that has happened once can always happen again,
I have this one on a while and perhaps I should think about junking KDE
altogether, and try Gnome. A small survey of administrators of enterprise Linux systems has told me that KDE is considered flakey (which I am now prepared to believe).
are you using kde for administrative tasks? if you speak about users.kde, kde and gnome are very different, kde having much more "pretty things" I could barely live without :-). Of course the more gadgets you have the more you are bug prone...
How can I go about removing KDE and starting Gnome, while causing minimum disturbance to the installed application software?
anyway it's a maximum disturbance, better start from scratch jdd -- Jean-Daniel Dodin Président du CULTe www.culte.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Stan Goodman wrote:
On Sunday 30 March 2008 01:34:13 Felix Miata wrote:
On 2008/03/30 01:07 (GMT+0300) Stan Goodman apparently typed:
It is really difficult to operate without the Panel that has vanished, because it contains the virtual desktops. If I could destroy the thing and make a new one, and could emplace the applets on it as they were, life would be much easier. Can that be done? You can simulate creating a new user by deleting various dirs in $HOME. First, while logged out, I'd try
mv .kde/share/config/kickerrc .kde/share/config/kickerrc-old
then logging in to see if it doesn't give it back. If that didn't help, I'd see if
mv .kde .kde-bak
would do it. That will cause most or all you KDE settings to be forgotten, but for me putting them all back usually only takes me a couple of minutes. ./config & .kderc are other possibilities.
It's a thought.
Another thought is that something like this that has happened once can always happen again, and perhaps I should think about junking KDE altogether, and try Gnome. A small survey of administrators of enterprise Linux systems has told me that KDE is considered flakey (which I am now prepared to believe). Also someone posted here yesterday the observation that he has also seen disappearances like this happen (I have to say that I have never seen such a thing in any of the other OSes either I or my neighbors have operated). Who knows? Maybe Gnome is more stable; it is certainly worth a try.
This reminds me of 1985 or so... At my university..all of the electrical engineering undergrads had their accounts on two machines... ec and ed, each of which was a dual-VAX-11, 1 MHz, with about 1 MB of memory. In February 1985, Gould Electronics delivered a PN 9080 machine, running at 30 MHz with 16 MB memory, in exchange for debugging work on the G/UTX Unix kernel to be performed George Goble (GHG). Several of these machines were already in use at Ft Lauderdale, Florida NASA site. This machine was designated an "auxillary" machine and given the hostname ei. Any engineering student who requested an account on the machine was given one. By August 1985, Gould announced that the kernel debugging done by Goble was worth the approx $1M USD in hardware which Gould had donated (mostly the machine itself, plus a couple printers, and PC attached by a serial line and used as the system console). Also, at this time, all of the undergrad accounts were migrated from ec and ed to ei. Now at this time, the users at NASA Ft Lauderdale were quite pleased with the current state of G/UTX Unix. However, despite Goble's debugging efforts, the machine crashed frequently on our site... I remember during a lab in which I relied on this machine for doing cross-assembly of 8080 assembly code, the machine crashed 6 times during the 3-hour lab time. As the semester progressed, Goble continued to work on debugging the kernel, and by the next semester, crashes became extremely rare, and I don't remember any after Many of the freshman complained..and bitterly. However, those of us who were sophomores and above, were not not all that bothered by the crashes. Why? Because we were so much more productive when the machine was up and running that even with the downtime from crashes, we were all getting more work done in an hour than when we were working on ec and ed (These machines were so overloaded that you could type a command line, get up, leave the room, walk down the hall, down the stairs, and to the student lounge, buy a candy bar, and walk back...and only half of the command line you typed would be echoed back to the screen yet). With Gnome and KDE, a similar comparison can be made. Yes, KDE is not quite as stable as Gnome...but the productivity in KDE is so much higher that it more than makes up for the occasional productivity losses when it goes screwy.
How can I go about removing KDE and starting Gnome, while causing minimum disturbance to the installed application software?
You don't have to remove KDE....in fact, that would be silly, because then you are denying yourself (or anyone else) the ability to run any of the many fine KDE apps (most of which are superior to the Gnome equivalent ... not all, but the overwhelming majority). Also, if you don't login as a KDE session, then the faulty code isn't running...so it has no influence. Just choose "Gnome" at the login screen. But....believe me... if you enjoy having a customized environment that does what YOU want to do, rather than what the developers decided you should have and not have an ability to do...you'll be back to KDE within a few days. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sunday 30 March 2008 11:30:51 Sam Clemens wrote:
Stan Goodman wrote:
On Sunday 30 March 2008 01:34:13 Felix Miata wrote:
On 2008/03/30 01:07 (GMT+0300) Stan Goodman apparently typed:
It is really difficult to operate without the Panel that has vanished, because it contains the virtual desktops. If I could destroy the thing and make a new one, and could emplace the applets on it as they were, life would be much easier. Can that be done?
You can simulate creating a new user by deleting various dirs in $HOME. First, while logged out, I'd try
mv .kde/share/config/kickerrc .kde/share/config/kickerrc-old
then logging in to see if it doesn't give it back. If that didn't help, I'd see if
mv .kde .kde-bak
would do it. That will cause most or all you KDE settings to be forgotten, but for me putting them all back usually only takes me a couple of minutes. ./config & .kderc are other possibilities.
It's a thought.
Another thought is that something like this that has happened once can always happen again, and perhaps I should think about junking KDE altogether, and try Gnome. A small survey of administrators of enterprise Linux systems has told me that KDE is considered flakey (which I am now prepared to believe). Also someone posted here yesterday the observation that he has also seen disappearances like this happen (I have to say that I have never seen such a thing in any of the other OSes either I or my neighbors have operated). Who knows? Maybe Gnome is more stable; it is certainly worth a try.
This reminds me of 1985 or so... At my university..all of the electrical engineering undergrads had their accounts on two machines... ec and ed, each of which was a dual-VAX-11, 1 MHz, with about 1 MB of memory.
When I was at university in the EE faculty, "computer" was a synonym for "ENIAC". -----snip-----
With Gnome and KDE, a similar comparison can be made.
Yes, KDE is not quite as stable as Gnome...but the productivity in KDE is so much higher that it more than makes up for the occasional productivity losses when it goes screwy.
How can I go about removing KDE and starting Gnome, while causing minimum disturbance to the installed application software?
You don't have to remove KDE....in fact, that would be silly, because then you are denying yourself (or anyone else) the ability to run any of the many fine KDE apps (most of which are superior to the Gnome equivalent ... not all, but the overwhelming majority).
Also, if you don't login as a KDE session, then the faulty code isn't running...so it has no influence.
Just choose "Gnome" at the login screen.
Thanks for this. But at the moment, the problem is the Panel that has gone away, and evidently nobody knows how to bring it back. Or to delete it and create a new one like the original. If I can't bring it back, at least the virtual desktops and the chameleon, the utility of KDE is very small. An unstable desktop, lacking the panel and combined with a philosophy that real documentation is for sissies, is not really what I had in mind.
But....believe me... if you enjoy having a customized environment that does what YOU want to do, rather than what the developers decided you should have and not have an ability to do...you'll be back to KDE within a few days.
What I want to do is severely limited by the absence of the panel. -- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Stan Goodman a écrit :
What I want to do is severely limited by the absence of the panel.
It's hard for me to think you want to leave any app for a casual config problem. You certainly can find a way to fix it. I didn't follow all the thread, but did you try to create a new user to see if the pannel is there? if so only the user account have the problem is no user have it, chance is the app have been removed accidentally. search yast/software for the rpm provide kicker and reinstall it... jdd -- Jean-Daniel Dodin Président du CULTe www.culte.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sunday 30 March 2008 12:42:45 jdd sur free wrote:
Stan Goodman a écrit :
What I want to do is severely limited by the absence of the panel.
It's hard for me to think you want to leave any app for a casual config problem. You certainly can find a way to fix it.
If by "casual config problem" you mean the absence of Kicker, "finding a way to fix it" was the object of this thread. I have no idea how to fix it, and so far neither does anyone else, so I am not certain how "certain" a fix is. I also asked Will Stephenson (a KDE "software engineer") whom I still hope will have some idea.
I didn't follow all the thread, but did you try to create a new user to see if the pannel is there? if so only the user account have the problem
is no user have it, chance is the app have been removed accidentally. search yast/software for the rpm provide kicker and reinstall it...
Interestingly, Alt-F2 no longer knows how to load YaST. Insteaad, "yast" is now just an unknown URL, so it brings up my own webpage (I reported that oddity months ago, and it too remains unexplained). If the panel were present, I would do as you suggest. It turns out that Kicker is the most useful thing in KDE. But I do not think that Kicker has been deleted: yesterday, I switched to the root user, and found that Kicker was present. So the problem is one of this user, and I would like to know how to solve it.
jdd
-- Jean-Daniel Dodin Président du CULTe www.culte.org
-- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Stan Goodman a écrit :
But I do not think that Kicker has been deleted: yesterday, I switched to the root user, and found that Kicker was present. So the problem is one of this user, and I would like to know how to solve it.
well, one can still make a right clic on the desktop and switch to an other user, can't you? or control alt backspace to kill the session? At your place, I would backup all the user home directory (including dot files!) to be able to go the hard way :-) for example: remove *all* the dot files of the user (so backup before!!!) then control alt backspace to kill the X server and restart. X should load kde with all default. if this gives you back the pannel, there is just to make a copy/remove session to see what is the problem :-) (not to say it's not frustrating) I already have lost the pannel and had hard time retreiving it, but had not at this time the good idea to write down a note... I beg you have seen this http://mandrivausers.org/index.php?showtopic=44016 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15862 problem seems common, alas jdd -- Jean-Daniel Dodin Président du CULTe www.culte.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sunday 30 March 2008 14:07:39 jdd sur free wrote:
Stan Goodman a écrit :
But I do not think that Kicker has been deleted: yesterday, I switched to the root user, and found that Kicker was present. So the problem is one of this user, and I would like to know how to solve it.
well, one can still make a right clic on the desktop and switch to an other user, can't you? or control alt backspace to kill the session?
That's what I did. I switched to the root user, and reported that I saw the panel there.
At your place, I would backup all the user home directory (including dot files!) to be able to go the hard way :-)
But thankfully, this has proved unnecessary. See below.
for example: remove *all* the dot files of the user (so backup before!!!)
then control alt backspace to kill the X server and restart. X should load kde with all default.
if this gives you back the pannel, there is just to make a copy/remove session to see what is the problem :-) (not to say it's not frustrating)
I already have lost the pannel and had hard time retreiving it, but had not at this time the good idea to write down a note...
I beg you have seen this http://mandrivausers.org/index.php?showtopic=44016
This thread described the exact same problem, and also had the very easy solution: ***** Unhide it (Control Centre==> Desktop--> Panels--> Hiding tab) and use the left or right hiding function instead. There's also the Raise when the pointer touches the screen's: function. **** In the Hide tab, there was a button marked for hiding the panel automatically after 3 seconds, which is what is intended to happen. I changed the behavior to hide only when I click on a Hide button, and that brought the panel back in all its glory. Then I changed again to hide automatically after 3 seconds (in other words, the way it was originally), and the behavior is exactly what it should be. The bloody thing was stuck. I will not forget this one in a hurry. I also learned that the Control Center is "kcontrol", not "kontrol" Long Live Consistency.
http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15862
problem seems common, alas
jdd
-- Jean-Daniel Dodin Président du CULTe www.culte.org
-- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Stan Goodman a écrit :
I beg you have seen this http://mandrivausers.org/index.php?showtopic=44016
This thread described the exact same problem, and also had the very easy solution:
***** Unhide it (Control Centre==> Desktop--> Panels--> Hiding tab) and use the left or right hiding function instead. There's also the Raise when the pointer touches the screen's: function. ****
In the Hide tab, there was a button marked for hiding the panel automatically after 3 seconds, which is what is intended to happen. I changed the behavior to hide only when I click on a Hide button, and that brought the panel back in all its glory. Then I changed again to hide automatically after 3 seconds (in other words, the way it was originally), and the behavior is exactly what it should be. The bloody thing was stuck. I will not forget this one in a hurry.
googles rules :-)) jdd -- Jean-Daniel Dodin Président du CULTe www.culte.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Stan Goodman wrote:
On Sunday 30 March 2008 14:07:39 jdd sur free wrote:
Stan Goodman a écrit :
But I do not think that Kicker has been deleted: yesterday, I switched to the root user, and found that Kicker was present. So the problem is one of this user, and I would like to know how to solve it. well, one can still make a right clic on the desktop and switch to an other user, can't you? or control alt backspace to kill the session?
That's what I did. I switched to the root user, and reported that I saw the panel there.
At your place, I would backup all the user home directory (including dot files!) to be able to go the hard way :-)
But thankfully, this has proved unnecessary. See below.
for example: remove *all* the dot files of the user (so backup before!!!)
then control alt backspace to kill the X server and restart. X should load kde with all default.
if this gives you back the pannel, there is just to make a copy/remove session to see what is the problem :-) (not to say it's not frustrating)
I already have lost the pannel and had hard time retreiving it, but had not at this time the good idea to write down a note...
I beg you have seen this http://mandrivausers.org/index.php?showtopic=44016
This thread described the exact same problem, and also had the very easy solution:
***** Unhide it (Control Centre==> Desktop--> Panels--> Hiding tab) and use the left or right hiding function instead. There's also the Raise when the pointer touches the screen's: function. ****
Stan... people told you to try this a couple days ago. You obviously ignored this and other instructions that people give you -- if you keep ignoring the instructions, then eventually, nobody will bother to help you at all. There's no point in trouble-shooting problems which probably don't actually exist because you didn't carry out the instructions for the simple problems first.
In the Hide tab, there was a button marked for hiding the panel automatically after 3 seconds, which is what is intended to happen. I changed the behavior to hide only when I click on a Hide button, and that brought the panel back in all its glory. Then I changed again to hide automatically after 3 seconds (in other words, the way it was originally), and the behavior is exactly what it should be. The bloody thing was stuck. I will not forget this one in a hurry.
I also learned that the Control Center is "kcontrol", not "kontrol" Long Live Consistency.
http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15862
problem seems common, alas
jdd
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 2008/03/30 19:02 (GMT-0400) Sam Clemens apparently typed:
You obviously ignored this and other instructions that people give you -- if you keep ignoring the instructions, then eventually, nobody will bother to help you at all. There's no point in trouble-shooting problems which probably don't actually exist because you didn't carry out the instructions for the simple problems first.
I know it's difficult to help people who don't seem to follow instructions. Today I was again for the upteenth time giving personal help to an 87 year old who can't grasp and retain basic email typing and editing instruction, and gets flustered not remembering to use ESC when she accidentally hits the alt key and can't type any more in the typing window. The problem here is all we see is words, not people, so we're not cognizant of unspoken context. You should pray you do as well as Stan when you become the octogenarian that apparently is Stan. http://tinyurl.com/38hu23 -- "Let us not love with words or in talk only. Let us love by what we do." 1 John 3:18 NLV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sunday 30 March 2008 04:48:30 pm Felix Miata wrote:
On 2008/03/30 19:02 (GMT-0400) Sam Clemens apparently typed:
You obviously ignored this and other instructions that people give you <snip>
I know it's difficult to help people who don't seem to follow instructions.
<snip>
the octogenarian that apparently is Stan. http://tinyurl.com/38hu23
Stan's a troll? I've been feeding a troll? bother! -- kai www.filesite.org || www.4thedadz.com || www.perfectreign.com remember - a turn signal is a statement, not a request -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 2008/03/30 19:29 (GMT-0700) Kai Ponte apparently typed:
On Sunday 30 March 2008 04:48:30 pm Felix Miata wrote:
the octogenarian that apparently is Stan. http://tinyurl.com/38hu23
Stan's a troll?
I've been feeding a troll?
bother!
"The OS/2 Guy" was in his later years, maybe still is, a certified troll. I don't recall ever seeing that status earned by Stan. -- "Let us not love with words or in talk only. Let us love by what we do." 1 John 3:18 NLV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Felix Miata wrote:
On 2008/03/30 19:29 (GMT-0700) Kai Ponte apparently typed:
On Sunday 30 March 2008 04:48:30 pm Felix Miata wrote:
the octogenarian that apparently is Stan. http://tinyurl.com/38hu23
Stan's a troll?
I've been feeding a troll?
bother!
"The OS/2 Guy" was in his later years, maybe still is, a certified troll. I don't recall ever seeing that status earned by Stan.
In *this* very thread, he stated (in a reply to me, on list) that when he started, computer meant "ENIAC"... So yes, the assertion that this Stan is the same as the OS/2 guy seems to be consistent with the data available. And remember what prompted all of this... his whining about a problem which could have been easily fixed...AND WOULD have been easily fixed..if he had just followed EITHER of two very clear instructions regarding KDE. Fortunately though, his claim that KDE worked properly from another login ID demonstrated that he had not, in fact, tried any of several solutions which would have restored the panel functionality immediately upon a new login. I don't know what this guy's problem is, but he is, above all, deceitful, which is consistent with the opinion of him in the OS/2 group. And note ALSO that some of those OS/2 postings use the same .sig line. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 2008/03/31 02:55 (GMT-0400) Sam Clemens apparently typed:
Felix Miata wrote:
On 2008/03/30 19:29 (GMT-0700) Kai Ponte apparently typed:
On Sunday 30 March 2008 04:48:30 pm Felix Miata wrote:
the octogenarian that apparently is Stan. http://tinyurl.com/38hu23
Stan's a troll?
I've been feeding a troll?
bother!
"The OS/2 Guy" was in his later years, maybe still is, a certified troll. I don't recall ever seeing that status earned by Stan.
the assertion that this Stan is the same as the OS/2 guy seems to be consistent with the data available.
"The OS/2 Guy" is/was Tim Martin aka Larry Chauvet, owner of subscription/for-pay web site "Warp City", not Stan. Stan was simply one of several who fed the troll Martin/Chauvet. -- "Let us not love with words or in talk only. Let us love by what we do." 1 John 3:18 NLV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Monday 31 March 2008 02:02:10 Sam Clemens wrote:
***** Unhide it (Control Centre==> Desktop--> Panels--> Hiding tab) and use the left or right hiding function instead. There's also the Raise when the pointer touches the screen's: function. ****
Stan... people told you to try this a couple days ago.
You obviously ignored this and other instructions that people give you -- if you keep ignoring the instructions, then eventually, nobody will bother to help you at all. There's no point in trouble-shooting problems which probably don't actually exist because you didn't carry out the instructions for the simple problems first.
If I had been told to do this earlier, it went over my head. It is not that I ignored it. When I understood the instruction, I followed it immediately. I can understand the frustration of anyone who gave me the right steer and saw that it wasn't followed, and I can only apologize for that. I value very highly the help I have had from this group. -- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sunday 30 March 2008, Stan Goodman said:
But thankfully, this has proved unnecessary. See below.
***** Unhide it (Control Centre==> Desktop--> Panels--> Hiding tab) and use the left or right hiding function instead. There's also the Raise when the pointer touches the screen's: function. ****
In the Hide tab, there was a button marked for hiding the panel automatically after 3 seconds, which is what is intended to happen. I changed the behavior to hide only when I click on a Hide button, and that brought the panel back in all its glory. Then I changed again to hide automatically after 3 seconds (in other words, the way it was originally), and the behavior is exactly what it should be. The bloody thing was stuck. I will not forget this one in a hurry.
Time for some fault analysis so we can prevent this happening in future: As far as I understand * User (where User == Stan, this time) configured panel to hide after 3 seconds. * On start of new session, panel was briefly visible but did not become visible again on mousing into corners/edges Fault tree, [X] are excluded ---------------------------- 1 [X] Panel not visible on startup 1.1 [X] Panel process (kicker) was not running 1.2 Panel was hidden 1.2.1 [X] Panel was manually hidden but show button was not visible due to badly adjusted monitor 1.2.2 Panel was automatically hidden but did not respond to show panel triggers 1.2.2.1 No specific show trigger location was set. In this (default) case the screen edge where panel is positioned is the show trigger. This did not function at all. 1.2.2.2 A specific show trigger was set, but in a location inconsistent with the panel location (eg panel at bottom edge, trigger at top left) where User did not find it. 1.2.2.3 Show triggers were off screen due to badly adjusted monitor, User did not find them. 1.3 [X] Panel was visible 1.3.1 [X] Panel was off screen due to badly adjusted monitor. 1.3.2 [X] Panel was obscured by "Allow other windows to cover the panel" and did not respond to show triggers. 1.3.2.x [X] (as 1.2.2.x) Please correct me if I've excluded 1.3.x causes too hastily. I now need some info so I can exclude some of 1.2.2.x: Where was the panel located? Was the "Raise the panel when the pointer touches the screen's <orientation> corner" setting enabled? If so, what part of the screen (aka show trigger) should have raised the pointer? If you don't remember, could you try to reproduce the problem now that we know how to solve it? Will -- Desktop Engineer KDE Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Monday 31 March 2008 at 14:12:10, Stan Goodman Stan Goodman
On Sunday 30 March 2008, Stan Goodman said:
But thankfully, this has proved unnecessary. See below.
***** Unhide it (Control Centre==> Desktop--> Panels--> Hiding tab) and use the left or right hiding function instead. There's also the Raise when the pointer touches the screen's: function. ****
In the Hide tab, there was a button marked for hiding the panel automatically after 3 seconds, which is what is intended to happen. I changed the behavior to hide only when I click on a Hide button, and that brought the panel back in all its glory. Then I changed again to hide automatically after 3 seconds (in other words, the way it was originally), and the behavior is exactly what it should be. The bloody thing was stuck. I will not forget this one in a hurry.
Time for some fault analysis so we can prevent this happening in future:
As far as I understand
* User (where User == Stan, this time) configured panel to hide after 3 seconds.
* On start of new session, panel was briefly visible but did not become visible again on mousing into corners/edges
Both are correct.
Fault tree, [X] are excluded ---------------------------- 1 [X] Panel not visible on startup 1.1 [X] Panel process (kicker) was not running 1.2 Panel was hidden 1.2.1 [X] Panel was manually hidden but show button was not visible due to badly adjusted monitor 1.2.2 Panel was automatically hidden but did not respond to show panel triggers 1.2.2.1 No specific show trigger location was set. In this (default) case the screen edge where panel is positioned is the show trigger. This did not function at all. 1.2.2.2 A specific show trigger was set, but in a location inconsistent with the panel location (eg panel at bottom edge, trigger at top left) where User did not find it. 1.2.2.3 Show triggers were off screen due to badly adjusted monitor, User did not find them. 1.3 [X] Panel was visible 1.3.1 [X] Panel was off screen due to badly adjusted monitor. 1.3.2 [X] Panel was obscured by "Allow other windows to cover the panel" and did not respond to show triggers. 1.3.2.x [X] (as 1.2.2.x)
Please correct me if I've excluded 1.3.x causes too hastily.
I now need some info so I can exclude some of 1.2.2.x:
Where was the panel located? Was the "Raise the panel when the pointer touches the screen's <orientation> corner" setting enabled? If so, what part of the screen (aka show trigger) should have raised the pointer?
If you don't remember, could you try to reproduce the problem now that we know how to solve it?
I'm not sure that any of the 1.2.2.x paaragraphs is correct. The only diagnostic point to notice is that the file kickerrc had been altered to omit the two lines: AutoHidePanel=false AutoHideDelay=3 which produced the effect that occured, namely that the panel did appear, did not wait for any 3 second delay, and was therefore hidden essentially immidiately. I think it is especially interesting that the Hiding tab of the Panel configuration notebook was not changed, but continued to claim that the two lines quoted above were still in effect. Others have said that this is not at all unusual, and that they too have experienced is. One even described it as a long-standing bug, with a well-known workaround (keep a backup copy of the file). IOW, it is not unique to my system, or to anything I could reproduce for analysis. -- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Monday 31 March 2008, Stan Goodman said:
If you don't remember, could you try to reproduce the problem now that we know how to solve it?
I'm not sure that any of the 1.2.2.x paaragraphs is correct. The only diagnostic point to notice is that the file kickerrc had been altered to omit the two lines:
AutoHidePanel=false AutoHideDelay=3
which produced the effect that occured
This is incorrect. You can verify by creating a new user, logging in once, logging out again and seeing that those lines are not in kickerrc, but the panel does not hide. They may be involved but are not the smoking gun. If you have a copy of the kickerrc that caused the problem that would be great. If not could you try to reproduce the situation by repeating the following setups and comparing them with your original experience? It would let me turn "may not be the cause" to [X] and then look for another 1.2.2.x hypothesis. At the moment I'm minded to believe 1.2.2.2 was the cause.
1.2.2.1 No specific show trigger location was set. In this (default) case the screen edge where panel is positioned is the show trigger. This did not function at all. 1.2.2.2 A specific show trigger was set, but in a location inconsistent with the panel location (eg panel at bottom edge, trigger at top left) where User did not find it.
If any other sufferers of Disappearing Panel Syndrome (DIPS ;) have useful information, please share it. Will -- Desktop Engineer KDE Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Stan Goodman wrote:
But at the moment, the problem is the Panel that has gone away, and evidently nobody knows how to bring it back. Or to delete it and create a new one like the original. If I can't bring it back, at least the virtual desktops and the chameleon, the utility of KDE is very small. An unstable desktop, lacking the panel and combined with a philosophy that real documentation is for sissies, is not really what I had in mind.
Your panel is gone, even after logging out of kde and logging in again? Sorry, that was not clear - well, assuming it's not a case of disk failure causing the unavailability of the relevant resources, if that had happened to me, and I happened to be in a big hurry, I'd log out of kde, <CTL>-<ALT>-F1 to a virtual console and log in, then rm -rf the kde related dotfiles and try logging back in. Joe -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Stan Goodman wrote:
What I want to do is severely limited by the absence of the panel.
I suspect you have tried this, but my kickerrc is attached. I would be worth a shot just to save your present one and copy this one over it and then give it the "dcop kicker panel restart" Also, for what it is worth, here are the running processes with the panel working. Compare with your: ps axf | grep kd <irrelevant lines omitted> 2524 ? Ss 0:00 +- /opt/kde3/bin/kdm 3297 ? Ss 0:00 | `- /bin/sh /opt/kde3/bin/startkde 3357 ? S 0:00 +- /usr/bin/dbus-launch --sh-syntax --exit-with-session /opt/kde3/bin/startkde 3397 ? S 0:00 +- start_kdeinit --new-startup +kcminit_startup 3398 ? Ss 0:00 +- kdeinit Running... 3403 ? S 0:00 | +- klauncher [kdeinit] --new-startup 3419 ? S 0:00 | +- kio_file [kdeinit] file /tmp/ksocket-david/klauncher2v7gha.slav 3460 ? S 0:00 | +- konqueror [kdeinit] --preload 3831 ? S 0:01 | +- konsole [kdeinit] 4179 pts/1 S+ 0:00 | | | `- grep kd 3401 ? S 0:00 +- dcopserver [kdeinit] --nosid 3405 ? S 0:01 +- kded [kdeinit] --new-startup 3412 ? S 0:00 +- ksmserver [kdeinit] 3416 ? S 0:01 +- kdesktop [kdeinit] 3418 ? S 0:05 +- kicker [kdeinit] 3455 ? S 0:00 +- knotify [kdeinit] 3467 ? S 0:13 +- knetworkmanager [kdeinit] 3469 ? S 0:00 +- kmix [kdeinit] -autostart 3471 ? S 0:00 +- kpowersave [kdeinit] 3473 ? S 0:00 +- klipper [kdeinit] Also, you can grab a working kicker executable (/opt/kde3/bin/kicker) from: http://www.3111skyline.com/download/linux/kicker I'll leave it there until you get it or tell me you don't need it. Also, there is another interesting file (/opt/kde3/share/config.kcfg/kickerSettings.kcfg) that I have also put in /download/linux if you would like to compare it with what you have. The only other thought I would have is a brute force approach of grepping around a little in the /opt/kde3/share directory with something like "egrep -a -r -l kicker *" and looking at the files that are implemented. Another thought would be to use yast and force a reload of kde. Good luck Stan, I feel you pain. I'm off to further troubleshoot the Tyan board / Opteron lockup problem I'm dealing with. -- David C. Rankin, J.D., P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com [$Version] update_info=kickerrc.upd:kde_3_1_sizeChanges,kickerrc.upd:kde_3_4_reverseLayout,kickerrc.upd:kde_3_5_kconfigXTize [AddAppletDialog Settings] Height 900=484 Width 1440=614 [Applet_1] WidthForHeightHint=73 [Applet_2] WidthForHeightHint=208 [Applet_3] WidthForHeightHint=202 [Applet_4] WidthForHeightHint=92 [Applet_5] WidthForHeightHint=30 [Applet_6] ConfigFile[$e]=weather_panelappletrc DesktopFile[$e]=kweather.desktop FreeSpace2=1 WidthForHeightHint=97 [Colors] CurrentPalette=* Custom Colors * [ExtensionButton_1] DesktopFile[$e]=konquerormenu.desktop FreeSpace2=0 [Extension_1] ConfigFile[$e]=sidebar_panelextensionrc DesktopFile[$e]=sidebarextension.desktop UserHidden=0 [General] Alignment=0 Applets2=KMenuButton_1,DesktopButton_1,ExtensionButton_1,ServiceMenuButton_2,ServiceButton_1,ServiceMenuButton_1,ServiceMenuButton_4,ServiceMenuButton_3,Applet_1,Applet_2,Applet_6,Applet_3,Applet_4,Applet_5 AutoHideDelay=0 AutoHidePanel=true AutoHideSwitch=false BackgroundHide=false BackgroundTheme=/opt/kde3/share/apps/kicker/wallpapers/default.png ExpandSize=true Extensions2= FadeOutAppletHandles=true HideAnimation=true HideAnimationSpeed=60 HideAppletHandles=false HideButtonSize=14 IExist=true KMenuHeight=488 KMenuWidth=399 LegacyKMenu=true Locked=true MenubarPanelTransparent=true OpenOnHover=true Position=3 SizePercentage=100 TintColor=69,82,198 TintValue=51 UnhideLocation=0 UntrustedApplets= UntrustedExtensions= XineramaScreen=0 [HTML Settings] AutomaticDetectionLanguage=0 [HistorySettings] OpenGroups= [KFileDialog Settings] Automatic Preview=true Autoplay sounds=true Recent Files=$HOME/Documents/weather/och.log [ServiceButton_1] DesktopFile=/usr/share/applications/writer.desktop FreeSpace2=0 StorageId[$e]=writer.desktop [ServiceButton_4] DesktopFile[$d] FreeSpace2[$d] StorageId[$d] [ServiceMenuButton_1] FreeSpace2=0 RelPath[$e]=Utilities/Texteditor/ [ServiceMenuButton_2] FreeSpace2=0 RelPath[$e]=System/TerminalEmulator/ [ServiceMenuButton_3] FreeSpace2=0 RelPath[$e]=System/More Programs-2/ [ServiceMenuButton_4] FreeSpace2=0 RelPath[$e]=Internet/dcrTools/ [URLButton_1] FreeSpace2[$d] URL[$d] [button_tiles] EnableBrowserTiles=false EnableDesktopButtonTiles=false EnableKMenuTiles=false EnableURLTiles=false EnableWindowListTiles=false [buttons] EnableIconZoom=false EnableTileBackground=false [menus] Extensions=find.desktop,printmenu.desktop,recentdocs.desktop,prefmenu.desktop Favorites=MozillaFirefox.desktop,kde-Kontact.desktop,writer.desktop,kde-amarok.desktop,kde-digikam.desktop,kde-Home.desktop,kde-KControl.desktop,kde-Help.desktop,kde-konsole.desktop MenuEntryFormat=NameOnly MenuEntryHeight=25 NumVisibleEntries=8 RecentAppsStat=167 1206823743 /opt/kde3/share/applications/kde/KEdit.desktop,146 1206741277 /usr/share/applications/YaST.desktop,110 1207005320 /opt/kde3/share/applications/kde/konsole.desktop,91 1206669652 /usr/share/applications/xterm.desktop,83 1207003059 /usr/share/applications/fusion-icon.desktop,76 1205298114 /usr/share/applications/keepassx.desktop,55 1206936153 /home/david/.local/share/applications/Kwrite.desktop,33 1206501830 /usr/share/applications/gftp.desktop,32 1206849086 /home/david/.local/share/applications/kde-kate.desktop,26 1207005313 /home/david/.local/share/applications/mount_Nemesis.desktop,24 1201921795 /usr/share/applications/MySQLQueryBrowser.desktop,22 1205365372 /usr/share/applications/wireshark.desktop,22 1206586591 /usr/share/applications/VirtualBox.desktop,20 1203348598 /home/david/.local/share/applications/Start Compiz.desktop,18 1206454665 /opt/kde3/share/applications/kde/gwenview.desktop,16 1205351676 /usr/share/applications/gimp.desktop,15 1207005316 /home/david/.local/share/applications/Nirvana.desktop,12 1203353435 /home/david/.local/share/applications/Kwin.desktop,11 1203277103 /opt/kde3/share/applications/kde/superkaramba.desktop,10 1207009600 /home/david/.local/share/applications/MozillaThunderbird-2.desktop,9 1201817140 /opt/kde3/share/applications/kde/knetworkmanager.desktop,9 1199508904 /opt/kde3/share/applications/kde/kate.desktop,9 1205351193 /home/david/.local/share/applications/pdfEdit.desktop,9 1206991792 /home/david/.local/share/applications/MozillaFirefox-2.desktop,8 1201220665 /opt/kde3/share/applications/kde/basket.desktop,8 1205713339 /opt/kde3/share/applications/kde/akregator.desktop,7 1201454235 /opt/kde3/share/applications/kde/khexedit.desktop,7 1202013536 /home/david/.local/share/applications/Compiz Settings Manager.desktop,7 1202702947 /opt/kde3/share/applications/kde/kcolorchooser.desktop,6 1202516327 /usr/share/applications/calc.desktop,6 1202704733 /opt/kde3/share/applications/kde/kgpg.desktop,6 1206991438 /home/david/.local/share/applications/Bonza.desktop,5 1193724405 /usr/share/applications/ccsm.desktop,5 1202914626 /opt/kde3/share/applications/kde/KControl.desktop,5 1204522046 /opt/kde3/share/applications/kde/filelight.desktop,4 1204127098 /opt/kde3/share/applications/kde/quanta.desktop,4 1193103332 /opt/kde3/share/applications/kde/Kjots.desktop,4 1200362509 /usr/share/applications/seamonkey.desktop,4 1194627370 /usr/share/applications/sax2.desktop,4 1195620247 /usr/share/applications/wesnoth.desktop,3 1204814906 /usr/share/applications/fglrx.desktop,3 1197952420 /usr/share/applications/mplayer.desktop,3 1202482634 /home/david/.local/share/applications/Emerald Theme Manager.desktop,3 1193347417 /opt/kde3/share/applications/kde/opensuseupdater.desktop,3 1206154128 /opt/kde3/share/applications/kde/kdirstat.desktop,3 1206468497 /home/david/.local/share/applications/Trinity.desktop,3 1201921046 /usr/share/applications/MozillaFirefox.desktop,3 1193772734 /opt/kde3/share/applications/kde/kaffeine.desktop,3 1203147932 /usr/share/applications/sunbird.desktop,3 1206468502 /home/david/.local/share/applications/Providence.desktop,2 1206940887 /usr/share/applications/acroread.desktop,2 1194437037 /usr/share/applications/template.desktop,2 1194330927 /usr/share/applications/writer.desktop,2 1206682898 /home/david/.local/share/applications/akregator.desktop,2 1203998260 /usr/share/applications/frozen-bubble.desktop,2 1197251573 /opt/kde3/share/applications/kde/k3b.desktop,2 1202582853 /usr/share/applications/boswars.desktop,2 1193339966 /opt/kde3/share/applications/kde/ksnapshot.desktop,2 1203278908 /usr/share/applications/gnormalize.desktop,2 1193347931 /opt/kde3/share/applications/kde/knotes.desktop,2 1204592417 /opt/kde3/share/applications/kde/kcalc.desktop,2 1206321554 /home/david/.local/share/applications/Ripper.desktop,2 1201406687 /usr/share/applications/jpackage-logfactor5.desktop,2 1197009336 /opt/kde3/share/applications/kde/ksysguard.desktop,2 1193494964 /opt/kde3/share/applications/kde/KMail.desktop,2 1205016932 /opt/kde3/share/applications/kde/kbattleship.desktop,1 1203658095 /usr/share/applications/beediff.desktop,1 1192495947 /etc/opt/kde3/share/applications/kde/Help.desktop,1 1197857583 /usr/share/applications/leafpad.desktop,1 1192884770 /opt/kde3/share/applications/kde/Kfind.desktop,1 1203920897 /usr/share/applications/Thunar.desktop,1 1203833388 /opt/kde3/share/applications/kde/kwatch.desktop,1 1200788099 /opt/kde3/share/applications/kde/kolourpaint.desktop,1 1200459448 /opt/kde3/share/applications/kde/kconfigeditor.desktop,1 1197005735 /usr/share/applications/MySQLWorkbench.desktop,1 1200869237 /opt/kde3/share/applications/kde/klogshow.desktop,1 1193102841 /opt/kde3/share/applications/kde/kvkbd.desktop,1 1203833867 /opt/kde3/share/applications/kde/kinfocenter.desktop,1 1193063545 /opt/kde3/share/applications/kde/kttsmgr.desktop,1 1200459343 /opt/kde3/share/applications/kde/KCharSelect.desktop,1 1206321516 /home/david/.local/share/applications/Kidsdell.desktop,1 1193341688 /opt/kde3/share/applications/kde/klipper.desktop,1 1194624746 /usr/share/applications/audacity.desktop,1 1192554325 /usr/share/applications/MozillaThunderbird.desktop,1 1194585297 /usr/share/applications/marble.desktop UseBookmarks=false UseBrowser=true
Stan Goodman wrote:
Another thought is that something like this that has happened once can always happen again, and perhaps I should think about junking KDE altogether, and try Gnome. A small survey of administrators of enterprise Linux systems has told me that KDE is considered flakey (which I am now prepared to believe).
That's really odd - for me kde has been solid, while I have seen the panel disappear on gnome. I started using kde full time in 2004 when I switched from redhat to suse.
Also someone posted here yesterday the observation that he has also seen disappearances like this happen (I have to say that I have never seen such a thing in any of the other OSes either I or my neighbors have operated). Who knows? Maybe Gnome is more stable; it is certainly worth a try.
How can I go about removing KDE and starting Gnome, while causing minimum disturbance to the installed application software?
Why would you need to remove kde? Simply choose gnome at the login screen, if that's what you prefer. Joe -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sunday 30 March 2008, Stan Goodman wrote:
It is really difficult to operate without the Panel that has vanished, because it contains the virtual desktops. If I could destroy the thing and make a new one, and could emplace the applets on it as they were, life would be much easier. Can that be done?
Do you mean that the panel doesn't start when logging in? I had the same problem some months ago, it was caused by a .desktop file (kcmkicker.desktop if I remember correctly) in the .kde directory. Try deleting it. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sunday 30 March 2008 12:38:29 auxsvr@gmail.com wrote:
On Sunday 30 March 2008, Stan Goodman wrote:
It is really difficult to operate without the Panel that has vanished, because it contains the virtual desktops. If I could destroy the thing and make a new one, and could emplace the applets on it as they were, life would be much easier. Can that be done?
Do you mean that the panel doesn't start when logging in? I had the same problem some months ago, it was caused by a .desktop file (kcmkicker.desktop if I remember correctly) in the .kde directory. Try deleting it.
When the the machine boots (to this user), it does appear momentarily, and then disappears. That doesn't sound like what you describe, but stranger things have happened lately; it's worth a try to delete the file. I should have mentioned that I have a second panel on the desktop, at the top of the screen, currently containing only two icons. If this one is displayed, then the problem is limited to the default panel, which is at the bottom of the screen. -- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Stan Goodman wrote:
On Sunday 30 March 2008 12:38:29 auxsvr@gmail.com wrote:
On Sunday 30 March 2008, Stan Goodman wrote:
It is really difficult to operate without the Panel that has vanished, because it contains the virtual desktops. If I could destroy the thing and make a new one, and could emplace the applets on it as they were, life would be much easier. Can that be done? Do you mean that the panel doesn't start when logging in? I had the same problem some months ago, it was caused by a .desktop file (kcmkicker.desktop if I remember correctly) in the .kde directory. Try deleting it.
When the the machine boots (to this user), it does appear momentarily, and then disappears. That doesn't sound like what you describe, but stranger things have happened lately; it's worth a try to delete the file.
I should have mentioned that I have a second panel on the desktop, at the top of the screen, currently containing only two icons. If this one is displayed, then the problem is limited to the default panel, which is at the bottom of the screen.
Stan, I believe the proper command is: dcop kicker kicker restart I ran into this problem with compiz a while back -- David C. Rankin, J.D., P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sunday 30 March 2008 22:06:51 David C. Rankin wrote:
Stan Goodman wrote:
On Sunday 30 March 2008 12:38:29 auxsvr@gmail.com wrote:
On Sunday 30 March 2008, Stan Goodman wrote:
It is really difficult to operate without the Panel that has vanished, because it contains the virtual desktops. If I could destroy the thing and make a new one, and could emplace the applets on it as they were, life would be much easier. Can that be done?
Do you mean that the panel doesn't start when logging in? I had the same problem some months ago, it was caused by a .desktop file (kcmkicker.desktop if I remember correctly) in the .kde directory. Try deleting it.
When the the machine boots (to this user), it does appear momentarily, and then disappears. That doesn't sound like what you describe, but stranger things have happened lately; it's worth a try to delete the file.
I should have mentioned that I have a second panel on the desktop, at the top of the screen, currently containing only two icons. If this one is displayed, then the problem is limited to the default panel, which is at the bottom of the screen.
Stan,
I believe the proper command is:
dcop kicker kicker restart
I ran into this problem with compiz a while back
But the problem turned out to be that the file <~/.kde/share/config/kickerr> had been altered, in that two lines had been deleted (not by me; I never heard of that file previously; and there is nobody else here). The lines: AutoHidePanel=false and AutoHideDelay=3 were missing -- although the Hiding tab in the Panels configuration notebook of Control Center still showed the correct settings as if the missing lines were actually present. Someone much more familiar with Linux than me might have put 2 +2 together and deduced exactly where the problem was, just because the panel did appear very briefly and then went into hiding. So it was clear that it had not been deleted -- and I even mentioned that at one point. The file was otherwise uncorrupted. Odd that such a thing can happen spontaneously to a file without making gibberish of it. -- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Stan Goodman wrote: [snip]
AutoHidePanel=false and AutoHideDelay=3
were missing -- although the Hiding tab in the Panels configuration notebook of Control Center still showed the correct settings as if the missing lines were actually present. Someone much more familiar with Linux than me might have put 2 +2 together and deduced exactly where the problem was, just because the panel did appear very briefly and then went into hiding. So it was clear that it had not been deleted -- and I even mentioned that at one point.
The file was otherwise uncorrupted. Odd that such a thing can happen spontaneously to a file without making gibberish of it.
Yes......a bug which I said hasn't ever been fixed in KDE. A work-around that always works, is to put at the bottom of your /home/*/.profile file: cp /home/*/.kde/share/config/kickerrc /home/*/.kde/share/config/kickerrc.org This creates a copie as a backup when you first login. If you loose the panel again, then go to a konsole login, then copy the kickerrc.org file to kickerrc and you're back in business. Fred -- A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Fred A. Miller wrote:
Stan Goodman wrote:
[snip]
AutoHidePanel=false and AutoHideDelay=3
were missing -- although the Hiding tab in the Panels configuration notebook of Control Center still showed the correct settings as if the missing lines were actually present. Someone much more familiar with Linux than me might have put 2 +2 together and deduced exactly where the problem was, just because the panel did appear very briefly and then went into hiding. So it was clear that it had not been deleted -- and I even mentioned that at one point.
The file was otherwise uncorrupted. Odd that such a thing can happen spontaneously to a file without making gibberish of it.
Yes......a bug which I said hasn't ever been fixed in KDE. A work-around that always works, is to put at the bottom of your /home/*/.profile file:
cp /home/*/.kde/share/config/kickerrc /home/*/.kde/share/config/kickerrc.org
This creates a copie as a backup when you first login. If you loose the panel again, then go to a konsole login, then copy the kickerrc.org file to kickerrc and you're back in business.
Sorry........should read that you need to kill the KDE desktop (ctrl-alt backspace), then login into konsole, etc. When you relogin, you'll have the panel. Fred -- A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Stan Goodman wrote:
On Sunday 30 March 2008 22:06:51 David C. Rankin wrote:
Stan Goodman wrote:
On Sunday 30 March 2008 12:38:29 auxsvr@gmail.com wrote:
On Sunday 30 March 2008, Stan Goodman wrote:
It is really difficult to operate without the Panel that has vanished, because it contains the virtual desktops. If I could destroy the thing and make a new one, and could emplace the applets on it as they were, life would be much easier. Can that be done? Do you mean that the panel doesn't start when logging in? I had the same problem some months ago, it was caused by a .desktop file (kcmkicker.desktop if I remember correctly) in the .kde directory. Try deleting it. When the the machine boots (to this user), it does appear momentarily, and then disappears. That doesn't sound like what you describe, but stranger things have happened lately; it's worth a try to delete the file.
I should have mentioned that I have a second panel on the desktop, at the top of the screen, currently containing only two icons. If this one is displayed, then the problem is limited to the default panel, which is at the bottom of the screen. Stan,
I believe the proper command is:
dcop kicker kicker restart
I ran into this problem with compiz a while back
But the problem turned out to be that the file <~/.kde/share/config/kickerr> had been altered, in that two lines had been deleted (not by me; I never heard of that file previously; and there is nobody else here). The lines:
AutoHidePanel=false and AutoHideDelay=3
were missing -- although the Hiding tab in the Panels configuration notebook of Control Center still showed the correct settings as if the missing lines were actually present. Someone much more familiar with Linux than me might have put 2 +2 together and deduced exactly where the problem was, just because the panel did appear very briefly and then went into hiding. So it was clear that it had not been deleted -- and I even mentioned that at one point.
The file was otherwise uncorrupted. Odd that such a thing can happen spontaneously to a file without making gibberish of it.
There seem to be a bunch of those in KDE. Another one that comes to mind is "MenuEntryHeight=25" (or 26 or 32) that controls icon size and spacing in the start menu. That too disappears from ~/.kde/share/config/kickerrc under the section: [menus] <snip> MenuEntryFormat=NameAndDescription MenuEntryHeight=32 Looks like KDE routines dealing with kickerrc should be revisited by the KDE folks. -- David C. Rankin, J.D., P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Monday 31 March 2008 00:04:21 David C. Rankin wrote:
Stan Goodman wrote:
On Sunday 30 March 2008 22:06:51 David C. Rankin wrote:
Stan Goodman wrote:
On Sunday 30 March 2008 12:38:29 auxsvr@gmail.com wrote:
On Sunday 30 March 2008, Stan Goodman wrote:
It is really difficult to operate without the Panel that has vanished, because it contains the virtual desktops. If I could destroy the thing and make a new one, and could emplace the applets on it as they were, life would be much easier. Can that be done?
Do you mean that the panel doesn't start when logging in? I had the same problem some months ago, it was caused by a .desktop file (kcmkicker.desktop if I remember correctly) in the .kde directory. Try deleting it.
When the the machine boots (to this user), it does appear momentarily, and then disappears. That doesn't sound like what you describe, but stranger things have happened lately; it's worth a try to delete the file.
I should have mentioned that I have a second panel on the desktop, at the top of the screen, currently containing only two icons. If this one is displayed, then the problem is limited to the default panel, which is at the bottom of the screen.
Stan,
I believe the proper command is:
dcop kicker kicker restart
I ran into this problem with compiz a while back
But the problem turned out to be that the file <~/.kde/share/config/kickerr> had been altered, in that two lines had been deleted (not by me; I never heard of that file previously; and there is nobody else here). The lines:
AutoHidePanel=false and AutoHideDelay=3
were missing -- although the Hiding tab in the Panels configuration notebook of Control Center still showed the correct settings as if the missing lines were actually present. Someone much more familiar with Linux than me might have put 2 +2 together and deduced exactly where the problem was, just because the panel did appear very briefly and then went into hiding. So it was clear that it had not been deleted -- and I even mentioned that at one point.
The file was otherwise uncorrupted. Odd that such a thing can happen spontaneously to a file without making gibberish of it.
There seem to be a bunch of those in KDE. Another one that comes to mind is "MenuEntryHeight=25" (or 26 or 32) that controls icon size and spacing in the start menu. That too disappears from ~/.kde/share/config/kickerrc under the section:
[menus] <snip> MenuEntryFormat=NameAndDescription MenuEntryHeight=32
Looks like KDE routines dealing with kickerrc should be revisited by the KDE folks.
Wouldn't you think so? That they don't is _one_ of the downsides to free software. Is there somewhere a list of these things? -- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Stan Goodman wrote:
On Monday 31 March 2008 00:04:21 David C. Rankin wrote:
Looks like KDE routines dealing with kickerrc should be revisited by the KDE folks.
Wouldn't you think so?
That they don't is _one_ of the downsides to free software.
Eh? If they closed the source to kde how would that help? Joe -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Monday 31 March 2008 00:38:57 Joe Sloan wrote:
Stan Goodman wrote:
On Monday 31 March 2008 00:04:21 David C. Rankin wrote:
Looks like KDE routines dealing with kickerrc should be revisited by the KDE folks.
Wouldn't you think so?
That they don't is _one_ of the downsides to free software.
Eh? If they closed the source to kde how would that help?
Small payment might be enough to concentrate the minds of developers enough so they might actually write a draft for useful documentation of their programs, and might try to deal with long-standing bug reports (see above). That shouldn't take much, seeing that they now develop for nothing. -- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Stan Goodman wrote:
On Monday 31 March 2008 00:38:57 Joe Sloan wrote:
Stan Goodman wrote:
On Monday 31 March 2008 00:04:21 David C. Rankin wrote:
Looks like KDE routines dealing with kickerrc should be revisited by the KDE folks. Wouldn't you think so?
That they don't is _one_ of the downsides to free software. Eh? If they closed the source to kde how would that help?
Small payment might be enough to concentrate the minds of developers enough so they might actually write a draft for useful documentation of their programs, and might try to deal with long-standing bug reports (see above). That shouldn't take much, seeing that they now develop for nothing.
IIUC the main kde developers are paid for their work. Joe -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Monday 31 March 2008, Joe Sloan said:
IIUC the main kde developers are paid for their work.
Not really. A few KDE developers are paid to work on KDE at distros, like us in the KDE Team here at Novell, but although we may be old hands, you can't say that this group represents all the 'main kde developers', or that our work is always on enhancing 'core KDE'. We do fix or extend it as needed or in our free time, but most of our paid time is spent fixing bugs and packaging KDE. A much smaller group is sponsored just to hack on KDE as they wish, full time. The majority of the 'main kde developers' are in unrelated jobs and work on KDE in their spare time. A fewof them are at distros doing other stuff (like Coolo) but most don't. The KDE 4 Solid hardware notification guy spent most of his time bouncing around downtown Baghdad in a jeep until recently. The belief that there's a 'core KDE team' working together full time on driving KDE forward in a shiny office somewhere is inaccurate. IMO it's KDE's strength that it's a diverse, non-hierarchical and not aligned to any one distro or commercial interest, but to its users and community. Will -- Desktop Engineer KDE Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Will Stephenson wrote:
On Monday 31 March 2008, Joe Sloan said:
The belief that there's a 'core KDE team' working together full time on driving KDE forward in a shiny office somewhere is inaccurate. IMO it's KDE's strength that it's a diverse, non-hierarchical and not aligned to any one distro or commercial interest, but to its users and community.
Equally inaccurate is to perpetuate the popular myth that kde is developed by 17 year olds living in their parent's basement, hence my mention of the fact that kde developers are working adults. Joe -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Stan Goodman wrote:
On Monday 31 March 2008 00:04:21 David C. Rankin wrote:
Stan Goodman wrote:
Stan Goodman wrote:
On Sunday 30 March 2008, Stan Goodman wrote: > It is really difficult to operate without the Panel that has > vanished, because it contains the virtual desktops. If I could > destroy the thing and make a new one, and could emplace the > applets on it as they were, life would be much easier. Can that > be done? Do you mean that the panel doesn't start when logging in? I had the same problem some months ago, it was caused by a .desktop file (kcmkicker.desktop if I remember correctly) in the .kde directory. Try deleting it. When the the machine boots (to this user), it does appear momentarily, and then disappears. That doesn't sound like what you describe, but stranger things have happened lately; it's worth a
On Sunday 30 March 2008 12:38:29 auxsvr@gmail.com wrote: try to delete the file.
I should have mentioned that I have a second panel on the desktop, at the top of the screen, currently containing only two icons. If this one is displayed, then the problem is limited to the default panel, which is at the bottom of the screen. Stan,
I believe the proper command is:
dcop kicker kicker restart
I ran into this problem with compiz a while back But the problem turned out to be that the file <~/.kde/share/config/kickerr> had been altered, in that two lines had been deleted (not by me; I never heard of that file previously; and
On Sunday 30 March 2008 22:06:51 David C. Rankin wrote: there is nobody else here). The lines:
AutoHidePanel=false and AutoHideDelay=3
were missing -- although the Hiding tab in the Panels configuration notebook of Control Center still showed the correct settings as if the missing lines were actually present. Someone much more familiar with Linux than me might have put 2 +2 together and deduced exactly where the problem was, just because the panel did appear very briefly and then went into hiding. So it was clear that it had not been deleted -- and I even mentioned that at one point.
The file was otherwise uncorrupted. Odd that such a thing can happen spontaneously to a file without making gibberish of it. There seem to be a bunch of those in KDE. Another one that comes to mind is "MenuEntryHeight=25" (or 26 or 32) that controls icon size and spacing in the start menu. That too disappears from ~/.kde/share/config/kickerrc under the section:
[menus] <snip> MenuEntryFormat=NameAndDescription MenuEntryHeight=32
Looks like KDE routines dealing with kickerrc should be revisited by the KDE folks.
Wouldn't you think so?
That they don't is _one_ of the downsides to free software.
In my experience, commercial software isn't any better, especially when a simple work-around is available like the one Fred posted.
Is there somewhere a list of these things?
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
participants (10)
-
auxsvr＠gmail.com -
David C. Rankin -
Felix Miata -
Fred A. Miller -
jdd sur free -
Joe Sloan -
Kai Ponte -
Sam Clemens -
Stan Goodman -
Will Stephenson