Re: [opensuse-wiki] Why does OpenSuSE mailing-list are on ezmlm?

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Martin Mewes

13 Oct 2005 13 Oct '05

12:55

Hello, Mark Hellman wrote:

...

OpenSuSE mailing-list are managed by ezmlm. This is a strange choice considering:

1. There is no ezmlm RPM package in OpenSuSE. It is a bit odd that a distribution uses a software on its servers that it does not even distribute... 2. Mailman has many more features and has a RPM package in OpenSuSE.

Why then ezmlm?!

There has been an generla discussion about this on suse-linux@suse.com one or two years ago. One of the words from a SUSE-guy was: "If we would use mailman we would need to constantly put RAM into the mailman-server. ezmlm is the best coice in our scenario". I can not really second this, because Debian, SourceForge and RedHat are using mailman and some other high traffic lists do as well. But I believe that if they say that ezmlm is the software which suits their needs at its best, what the hell ;-) What I second is the "problem" with the rpm package of ezmlm. But I think this is more a general item and should be discussed in the general mailinglist opensuse@opensuse.org, so I will set a reply2 now (if this is supported by ezmlm). bis dahin/kind regards Martin Mewes -- Welche Mailingliste zu welchem Linux? suse-linux@suse.com -> SuSE Linux debian-user-german@lists.debian.org -> Debian GNU/Linux linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org -> Linux Kernel

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Cristian Rodriguez

13 Oct 13 Oct

18:38

New subject: [opensuse] Re: [opensuse-wiki] Why does OpenSuSE mailing-list are on ezmlm?

Martin Mewes escribió:

...

Hello,

Mark Hellman wrote:

...
OpenSuSE mailing-list are managed by ezmlm. This is a strange choice considering:

1. There is no ezmlm RPM package in OpenSuSE. It is a bit odd that a distribution uses a software on its servers that it does not even distribute... 2. Mailman has many more features and has a RPM package in OpenSuSE.

Why then ezmlm?!

No Mailman please.. ¡¡¡ :) No passwords for a mail list ¡¡

...

"If we would use mailman we would need to constantly put RAM into the mailman-server. ezmlm is the best coice in our scenario".

he is probably right, he should know his network, his enviroment..and so on..

...

I can not really second this, because Debian, SourceForge and RedHat are using mailman and some other high traffic lists do as well.

some points: ezmlm is extremely fast , secure , and simple , working together with qmail when you manage such a big enviroment, you need to use "the right tool for the job" and doesn 't matter if ezmlm is not "free enough" to be packaged for the distribution.

Christoph Thiel

18:44

New subject: [opensuse] Re: [opensuse-wiki] Why does OpenSuSE mailing-list are on ezmlm?

On Thu, 13 Oct 2005, Cristian Rodriguez wrote:

...

when you manage such a big enviroment, you need to use "the right tool for the job" and doesn 't matter if ezmlm is not "free enough" to be packaged for the distribution.

<sales pitch> Try mlmmj [(Mailing List Managing Made Joyful) is a mail server-independent reimplementation of the ezmlm mailing list manager] now! ;) In addition to that let me reiterate a statement that has been made on opensuse-wiki: The resaon for using ezmlm is a purely historical issue, as the lists.suse.com server has been running for ages. + There are plans to migrate lists.suse.com... Regards Christoph

houghi

19:44

New subject: [opensuse] Re: [opensuse-wiki] Why does OpenSuSE mailing-list are on ezmlm?

On Thu, Oct 13, 2005 at 03:38:02PM -0300, Cristian Rodriguez wrote:

...

No Mailman please.. ¡¡¡ :) No passwords for a mail list ¡¡

It is much easier in use for the end user. It's ease of use is something I prefer. Going on a holiday? Just fill that out on the website and I am done. No idea how I should do that now. <snip>

...

when you manage such a big enviroment, you need to use "the right tool for the job" and doesn 't matter if ezmlm is not "free enough" to be packaged for the distribution.

There are plenty of large enviroments. Also it DOES matter if it is not free enough when you are talking about an openSUSE mailinglist. If mailman is good enough for the users, it should be good enough for openSUSE itself. houghi -- Quote correct (NL) http://www.briachons.org/art/quote/ Zitiere richtig (DE) http://www.afaik.de/usenet/faq/zitieren Quote correctly (EN) http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html

Martin Mewes

19:47

New subject: [opensuse] Re: [opensuse-wiki] Why does OpenSuSE mailing-list are on ezmlm?

Hi, houghi wrote:

...

It is much easier in use for the end user. It's ease of use is something I prefer. Going on a holiday? Just fill that out on the website and I am done. No idea how I should do that now.

You could create a procmail-rule to send eMails from the list to /dev/null ;-) scnr :-) bis dahin/kind regards Martin Mewes -- Fragen zur unbeaufsichtigten Installation von SuSE Linux sind hier ontopic: suse-autoinstall@suse.com

Rasmus Plewe

20:02

New subject: [opensuse] Re: [opensuse-wiki] Why does OpenSuSE mailing-list are on ezmlm?

On Thu, Oct 13, 2005 at 09:47:27PM +0200, Martin Mewes wrote:

...

houghi wrote:

...
It is much easier in use for the end user. It's ease of use is something I prefer. Going on a holiday? Just fill that out on the website and I am done. No idea how I should do that now.

You could create a procmail-rule to send eMails from the list to /dev/null ;-)

scnr :-)

What's so funny about that? I've got a .procmailrc.vacation laying around since a couple of years, used for exactly that. OK, it uses $MAIL/vacation instead of /dev/null, but I never ever had a look into $MAIL/vacation... Rasmus

Marcus Rueckert

19:50

New subject: [opensuse] Re: [opensuse-wiki] Why does OpenSuSE mailing-list are on ezmlm?

On 2005-10-13 21:44:55 +0200, houghi wrote:

...

On Thu, Oct 13, 2005 at 03:38:02PM -0300, Cristian Rodriguez wrote:

...
No Mailman please.. ¡¡¡ :) No passwords for a mail list ¡¡

It is much easier in use for the end user. It's ease of use is something I prefer. Going on a holiday? Just fill that out on the website and I am done. No idea how I should do that now.

quoting from the footer:

...

For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org

...

There are plenty of large enviroments. Also it DOES matter if it is not free enough when you are talking about an openSUSE mailinglist. If mailman is good enough for the users, it should be good enough for openSUSE itself.

if it would be my choice we would go for mlmmj: - it was good enough to replace ezml for all gentoo lists. - the code base is reviewable. - its fast. - it is part of the distro. - the project maintainer works for suse. just my 2 cents. darix

houghi

20:15

New subject: [opensuse] Re: [opensuse-wiki] Why does OpenSuSE mailing-list are on ezmlm?

On Thu, Oct 13, 2005 at 09:50:37PM +0200, Marcus Rueckert wrote:

...

quoting from the footer:

...
For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org

Just send an email. With mailman I would have just clicked on the link and be done already. So it is much userfriendly.

...

if it would be my choice we would go for mlmmj: - it was good enough to replace ezml for all gentoo lists. - the code base is reviewable. - its fast. - it is part of the distro. - the project maintainer works for suse.

Exept for the last one, how is that interesting for me as user? And does it have an easy interface like mailman? houghi -- Quote correct (NL) http://www.briachons.org/art/quote/ Zitiere richtig (DE) http://www.afaik.de/usenet/faq/zitieren Quote correctly (EN) http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html

Christoph Thiel

20:21

New subject: [opensuse] Re: [opensuse-wiki] Why does OpenSuSE mailing-list are on ezmlm?

On Thu, 13 Oct 2005, houghi wrote:

...

On Thu, Oct 13, 2005 at 09:50:37PM +0200, Marcus Rueckert wrote:

...
quoting from the footer:

...
For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org

Just send an email. With mailman I would have just clicked on the link and be done already. So it is much userfriendly.

houghi, please take my post (http://lists.opensuse.org/archive/opensuse-wiki/2005-Oct/0059.html) on opensuse-wiki into account and let's end this discussion for now (or continue off-list)!

...

...
if it would be my choice we would go for mlmmj: - it was good enough to replace ezml for all gentoo lists. - the code base is reviewable. - its fast. - it is part of the distro. - the project maintainer works for suse.

Exept for the last one, how is that interesting for me as user? And does it have an easy interface like mailman?

Regards Christoph

Kurt Wall

21:07

New subject: [opensuse] Re: [opensuse-wiki] Why does OpenSuSE mailing-list are on ezmlm?

On Thu, Oct 13, 2005 at 02:55:10PM +0200, Martin Mewes took 45 lines to write:

...

Hello,

Mark Hellman wrote:

...
OpenSuSE mailing-list are managed by ezmlm. This is a strange choice considering:

1. There is no ezmlm RPM package in OpenSuSE. It is a bit odd that a distribution uses a software on its servers that it does not even distribute... 2. Mailman has many more features and has a RPM package in OpenSuSE.

Why then ezmlm?!

There has been an generla discussion about this on suse-linux@suse.com one or two years ago. One of the words from a SUSE-guy was:

"If we would use mailman we would need to constantly put RAM into the mailman-server. ezmlm is the best coice in our scenario".

I can not really second this, because Debian, SourceForge and RedHat are using mailman and some other high traffic lists do as well.

But I believe that if they say that ezmlm is the software which suits their needs at its best, what the hell ;-)

Indeed. A long-standing principle in the sysadmin world is that you don't tell the sysadmin how to run his box. If SUSE want to use ezmlm and qmail, it's none of my business. Kurt -- A "No" uttered from deepest conviction is better and greater than a "Yes" merely uttered to please, or what is worse, to avoid trouble. -- Mahatma Ghandi

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participants (7)

Christoph Thiel
Cristian Rodriguez
houghi
Kurt Wall
Marcus Rueckert
Martin Mewes
Rasmus Plewe