On Wed, 2003-07-23 at 14:44, James Ogley wrote:

...

If so, when is SuSE going to wake up (along with IBM, etc.) and do something? I'm starting to think a switch to FreeBSD might not be such a bad idea after all, if only to ensure I'm not involved in a legal tangle as an end-user.

And then they've already won!

Sorry, the whole thing's a scam, they're punting to get whatever cash they can out of people.

I second that. There are plenty of things odd about the whole thing. Like all the share dealings in SCO just before they announced that they were going to go after IBM regarding Linux. Interestingly the share price trebled when the news broke. It has since been petering out down-wards again, but is still a lot higher than before the lawsuit started. The whole thing is about SCO wanting to make money, and they don't care who the screw to get it. If they could make piles of cash by using little kids in sweatshops in the far east, oh wait, that is Nike. From what was discussed on the LKML recently, SCO demanded trial by jury rather than by judge because they think it will give them bigger chance to win the trial. What SCO has not realised is that IF they now win, the win only affects the US, nowhere else in the world. The withdrew their complaints in both Canada and Germany after the courts were a lot less favourable toward them there. That if anything should tell people that this is not something to lose sleep over. I am for one not going to give up on Linux. If SCO wins against IBM, they would still have to take me to court and win, to make me give up on Linux. The more people that take this stance, the less the risk that SCO would ever try it. Regards, -- Anders Karlsson Trudheim Technology Limited

On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, David Benfell wrote:

And there is absolutely no reason for you to give up on Linux. Even if SCO prevails against IBM, SCO, nie Caldera, released several versions of the code in question under GPL. Once it's under GPL, that's the end of any licensing fees.

I think my biggest concern, from the perspective of how this applies to my life, is I don't want to see SuSE's business affected, because I rely on their distro now. I've tried the others (Mandrake, Red Hat, etc.) and I can't imagine going back to one of them. That's why my question about whether SuSE is weathering this fine. Because I want to see them around for years to come so I can keep buying their distros. :-) My other concern, obviously, is that Linux be deemed illegal in general, in which case a switch to something like FreeBSD may be necessary. I like FreeBSD too, but I hope it never comes to that. Preston

On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, Paul Cooke wrote:

On Tuesday 22 July 2003 3:53 pm, Preston Crawford wrote:

...

If so, when is SuSE going to wake up (along with IBM, etc.) and do something? I'm starting to think a switch to FreeBSD might not be such a bad idea after all, if only to ensure I'm not involved in a legal tangle as an end-user.

Preston

look... you've tried this same SCO crud in the alt.linux.suse newsgroup and got handed your head... why do you persist in trolling???

Lying and calling someone a troll does not make it the truth. I've been a Linux user for years and a SuSE user since 8.0. Why do you persist on calling me a troll when I was only asking a question? Preston

On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, Anders Karlsson wrote:

I'd guess he objects to you having already been told numerous times the answer to your question and you then just moving to another forum asking the exact same question again.

What question? If you refer to the XFree problem I was having I only got one person who had the right answer to that. I thanked him profusely, problem solved.

It'd irritate me, and I know full well I have irritated the hell out of people doing exactly the same thing some 6-8 years ago, when I didn't know better.

I guess I'm in the "don't know better" column right now, because I've just asked for help a couple times and asked a question about how SuSE is dealing with the SCO issue and suddenly I'm a troll. In the end my life will move on if I'm essentially blacklisted here, but I guess I'd like to know why first and be given a chance to ammend that behaviour rather than being slammed and not knowing why. Preston

On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, Ben Rosenberg wrote:

Don't sweat it if you didn't know there was an OT list for discussions such as SCO and the like. There are a lot of newbies on this list..maybe not in the sense that they are new to Linux but to the SLE. Don't worry

Right. That would be me, sort of. I bounce on and off this list. Depending on how much time I have to read it I subscribe and unsubscribe. I usually end up subscribing again because I'm curious if anything interesting is going on and it's too much of a pain to read the web archive. Too slow to load each time. The one thing that made being subscribed a pain was my procmail filter with fetchmail was SUPER slow with spamassassin. But I figured out how to use spamc/spamd and now things are much faster. :-)

about them..they come and go like the tides. What the deal would is that the SLE is trying to become a technical discussion list only as to reduce the number of emails that people get per day. So if you throw out a question like the one that started this thread to the OT list then all will be well. :)

Gotcha. Thanks. Preston

On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, John Pettigrew wrote:

In a previous message, me@prestoncrawford.com wrote:

...

The one thing that made being subscribed a pain was my procmail filter with fetchmail was SUPER slow with spamassassin. But I figured out how to use spamc/spamd and now things are much faster. :-)

I also use spamc/spamd, but I also filter the posts to this list out before passing emails to spamd - there are very few spams through this list so this is no loss, and reduces the load somewhat :-)

That's a good idea. My problem is that I use fetchmail to do my mail downloading then gather up email from my inbox and filter it in Evolution. So the SuSE email list gets filtered into a folder by Evolution, not by procmail. And thus doesn't have the chance to be skipped for spam filtering in my procmail file. I wonder if there's a way to get procmail to skip doing the spam filter on an email depending on its subject or something like that. I know another way around this would be to setup a second account for Evolution that just pulls the SuSE list emails from a different mbox and go ahead and use procmail to filter out the SuSE list first, but this seems kind of messy on the Evolution end of things. Prseton

Right, The question it was regarding was about SCO vs SuSE, you have had your answer, been directed to the correct forum, reminded you had already asked the question and received many answers in the news group. Just drop this particular topic okay? You have been given plenty of links to get on with by now, detailing why people are not overly worried. If you do persist harping on about this topic you are only going to make people less keen helping you when you actually have a problem you need fixing. The XFree question never came in to this discussion. From what I can see, you are not blacklisted from the mailing list, but some people have started taking steps filtering out your postings. That is usually a sign to start learning from mistakes made. I believe that you simply did not know better this time around. Hopefully you stick around with SuSE and Linux, learn a lot and in a few years time can start answering questions and helping newbies. Take it easy, On Wed, 2003-07-23 at 16:58, me@prestoncrawford.com wrote:

On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, Anders Karlsson wrote:

...

I'd guess he objects to you having already been told numerous times the answer to your question and you then just moving to another forum asking the exact same question again.

What question? If you refer to the XFree problem I was having I only got one person who had the right answer to that. I thanked him profusely, problem solved.

...

It'd irritate me, and I know full well I have irritated the hell out of people doing exactly the same thing some 6-8 years ago, when I didn't know better.

I guess I'm in the "don't know better" column right now, because I've just asked for help a couple times and asked a question about how SuSE is dealing with the SCO issue and suddenly I'm a troll.

In the end my life will move on if I'm essentially blacklisted here, but I guess I'd like to know why first and be given a chance to ammend that behaviour rather than being slammed and not knowing why.

Preston -- Anders Karlsson Trudheim Technology Limited

Quoting me@prestoncrawford.com:

On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, Anders Karlsson wrote:

...

Right,

The question it was regarding was about SCO vs SuSE, you have had your answer, been directed to the correct forum, reminded you had already asked the question and received many answers in the news group. Just drop this particular topic okay?

I'm willing to drop it. At this point I'm simply defending myself. I want to see SuSE do *something* and apparantly this isn't the place to discuss that. Fine enough. It should have ended there and not gotten personal. If it hadn't gotten personal I wouldn't have felt the need to respond.

...

The XFree question never came in to this discussion.

I thought that's what you were referring to when you said "you've been given your answer", etc. I thought you were referring to past posts of mine.

...

From what I can see, you are not blacklisted from the mailing list, but some people have started taking steps filtering out your postings. That is usually a sign to start learning from mistakes made. I believe that you simply did not know better this time around.

Hopefully you stick around with SuSE and Linux, learn a lot and in a few years time can start answering questions and helping newbies.

I actually do answer questions now and then when I feel I have the right answer (that being the operative and often rare case). My problem is that I know how to keep my system running, but I often ask questions because I'm trying to make sure I do things the *right* way and not just hack it and make it work. That's why I've asked a few more technical questions than the average newbie, perhaps. I've only been in computers for 9 years. Jumpef from Mac to Windows to Linux in what seems like lightning speed to me. I'm always learning, always wondering, always asking. That's just my nature.

So I do plan on sticking around and I'll try not to be repetitive, but I would just hope that others would have a little more patience, I guess.

Preston

A very very gentlemanly response. Indeed, your entire communication so far on this topic has been very restrained. - Ram.

On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, Ken Schneider wrote:

He didn't call you a troll, he said you were trolling, as in fishing (trolling) looking in many spots for an answer.

I've never heard the term used in that sense. That's a new one to me. Apologies if that's what he meant, but I assumed he meant I was a troll, like Flatfish or someone like that. I admit that I tend to ask questions in multiple places, but I always assumed that if someone subscribed to both they'd just answer in one and not the other. I didn't think there was anything wrong with asking in both places or asking multiple times if you didn't get an answer. I'm on 40k dial-up and I have to tell you that I don't lose sleep over the bandwidth lost by an extra email or usenet post here or there. Maybe that's just me, though.

There is a specific list for off topic questions.

Try: mailto:suse-ot@suse.com

Thanks. Preston

On Wed, 2003-07-23 at 18:11, Dennis Tuchler wrote:

On Wed, 2003-07-23 at 10:52, Ken Schneider wrote:

...

On Wed, 2003-07-23 at 11:44, me@prestoncrawford.com wrote:

...

He didn't call you a troll, he said you were trolling, as in fishing (trolling) looking in many spots for an answer.

A pedantic note on usage:

When a fisherman drags a hooked line in the water, that's trawling, not trolling.

Super pedantic then :) troll v. To fish by dragging bait along in the water trawl v. fish with a trawl or seine trawl n. a large wide-mouthed fishing net dragged by a boat along the bottom Source: The concise Oxford English Dictionary

On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 15:27:22 +0100, Paul Cooke wrote:

look... you've tried this same SCO crud in the alt.linux.suse newsgroup and got handed your head... why do you persist in trolling???

Whoops. I was unaware of this. I now apologize for responding at all and urge others to let this thread die. -- David Benfell, LCP benfell@parts-unknown.org --- Resume available at http://www.parts-unknown.org/resume.html

On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, Carl Huber wrote:

Preston Crawford wrote:

...

If so, when is SuSE going to wake up (along with IBM, etc.) and do something? I'm starting to think a switch to FreeBSD might not be such a bad idea after all, if only to ensure I'm not involved in a legal tangle as an end-user.

Take a look at the possible outcomes, and see some possible reasons why there isn't a great rush to do anything yet:

http://www.cybersource.com.au/users/conz/linux_vs_sco_matrix.html

I'll look at that. Thanks. Preston

* Dylan [07-23-03 10:43]:

(Apologies for tofu...) [sokay ..]

I've got all Mr Crawford's dross filtered off to the garbage, but of course I still get the replies (no offence intended to the repliers) Is procmail capable of identifying when Mr C starts a thread and then automatically trashing the whole lot, without dumping a valid thread from half-way thru just because he sees fit to respond.

Probably, you would get a better answer in procmail@lists.RWTH-Aachen.DE. But, the hoops you would be jumping thru may be more work than the benefit perceived (altho great). -- Patrick Shanahan Registered Linux User #207535 http://wahoo.no-ip.org @ http://counter.li.org