Before I go off half-cocked and wipe this system, I thought I had better give the benefit of doubt to SuSE, and ask: Where is the documentation for "The SuSE boot concept?" I've been on SysV(Redhat, Mandrake) and BSD-like(Slack) and now I am confronted with yet another "boot concept", apparently non-standard and hidden beneath a proprietary layer called SuSEConfig. If I understand correctly, this documentation is contained in another proprietary document, the SuSE Handbook, which was not included in my boxed set. It seems that only SuSE rpms will install correctly on a SuSE system and SuSE rpms are as rare as hen's teeth. I am not saying that SuSE does not have the right to obfuscate and change booting, configuration, and installation to suit themselves. What I am complaining about is that their new approach was not made clear in the sales hype and is poorly documented, leaving those coming from other linux environments at a total loss. Those of you who don't know what I am talking about should read: /etc/init.d/README I sincerely hope that someone can convince me that SuSEConfig is a great thing and that I am totally wrong. I probably am totally wrong. I hope so. I am tired of installing linux systems looking for the ideal. (Slackware with RPMs?). Meanwhile, I'm going to go find LSB and see what it's all about.
Answers: * Albert Wagner (alwagner@tcac.net) [010403 16:43]: =>SuSE boot concept?" As of 7.1..same as RH. =>Meanwhile, I'm going to go find LSB and see what it's all about. SuSe is THE most compilant Linux distro. Just because it doesn't do things as RH or some other distro..doesn't mean that it's wrong. SuSE tries to follow the LSB as closely as possible. *sidenote* I am not starting some flame ware with this. -- Ben Rosenberg mailto:ben@whack.org ----- If two men agree on everything, you can be sure that only one of them is doing the thinking.
Hi Albert,
I sincerely hope that someone can convince me that SuSEConfig is a great
SuSEconfig is GREAT!!!! <g> Seriously, SuSEconfig is more than just a boot concept - it's an administration system. SuSEconfig centralizes system settings in the rc.config config file, so that YaST2 (or YaST) can change the rc.config file and have SuSEconfig distribute the changes throughout the entire system. This makes it extremely easy even for manual config changes, because you can simply open rc.config in PICO or Kedit, or even via YaST or an option rc.config editor module for YaST2. I personally think SuSE has the most advanced, yet easiest to use configuration system around. It's well worth getting use to. Best, Tim -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- Timothy R. Butler Universal Networks Information Tech. Consultant Christian Web Services Since 1996 ICQ #12495932 AIM: Uninettm An Authorized IPSwitch Reseller tbutler@uninetsolutions.com http://www.uninetsolutions.com ============== "Information Powered by Innovation" ==============
Thanks for your reply, Tim. Do you know where I might find some documentation on just what Yast2 and suseconfig are doing On Tuesday 03 April 2001 20:15, Timothy R. Butler wrote:
Hi Albert,
I sincerely hope that someone can convince me that SuSEConfig is a great
SuSEconfig is GREAT!!!! <g> Seriously, SuSEconfig is more than just a boot concept - it's an administration system. SuSEconfig centralizes system settings in the rc.config config file, so that YaST2 (or YaST) can change the rc.config file and have SuSEconfig distribute the changes throughout the entire system. This makes it extremely easy even for manual config changes, because you can simply open rc.config in PICO or Kedit, or even via YaST or an option rc.config editor module for YaST2. I personally think SuSE has the most advanced, yet easiest to use configuration system around. It's well worth getting use to.
Best, Tim
Albert Wagner wrote:
Thanks for your reply, Tim. Do you know where I might find some documentation on just what Yast2 and suseconfig are doing
I couldn't tell you what YaST2 does, but you can see what does on behind SuSEconfig using 'less /sbin/SuSEconfig' because SuSEconfig is just a script. YaST2 does some other configuration, but quite a bit of it is done through setting variables in /etc/rc.config, which SuSEconfig then uses. It isn't actually a 'boot concept', but more a configuration system. It still allows you to edit files by hand if you want (as I frequently do) but make life easier for those who don't have the time or the necessary experience to hand-edit files.
On Tuesday 03 April 2001 20:15, Timothy R. Butler wrote:
SuSEconfig is GREAT!!!! <g> Seriously, SuSEconfig is more than just a boot concept - it's an administration system. SuSEconfig centralizes system settings in the rc.config config file, so that YaST2 (or YaST) can change the rc.config file and have SuSEconfig distribute the changes throughout the entire system. This makes it extremely easy even for manual config changes, because you can simply open rc.config in PICO or Kedit, or even via YaST or an option rc.config editor module for YaST2. I personally think SuSE has the most advanced, yet easiest to use configuration system around. It's well worth getting use to.
-- __ _ -o)/ / (_)__ __ ____ __ Chris Reeves /\\ /__/ / _ \/ // /\ \/ / ICQ# 22219005 _\_v __/_/_//_/\_,_/ /_/\_\
On Wednesday 04 April 2001 02:56, Chris Reeves wrote:
Albert Wagner wrote:
Thanks for your reply, Tim. Do you know where I might find some documentation on just what Yast2 and suseconfig are doing
Have you read chapter 4 of SuSE"s manual? It's 30 pages of info.
I couldn't tell you what YaST2 does, but you can see what does on behind SuSEconfig using 'less /sbin/SuSEconfig' because SuSEconfig is just a script. YaST2 does some other configuration, but quite a bit of it is done through setting variables in /etc/rc.config, which SuSEconfig then uses.
It isn't actually a 'boot concept', but more a configuration system. It still allows you to edit files by hand if you want (as I frequently do) but make life easier for those who don't have the time or the necessary experience to hand-edit files.
On Tuesday 03 April 2001 20:15, Timothy R. Butler wrote:
SuSEconfig is GREAT!!!! <g> Seriously, SuSEconfig is more than just a boot concept - it's an administration system. SuSEconfig centralizes system settings in the rc.config config file, so that YaST2 (or YaST) can change the rc.config file and have SuSEconfig distribute the changes throughout the entire system. This makes it extremely easy even for manual config changes, because you can simply open rc.config in PICO or Kedit, or even via YaST or an option rc.config editor module for YaST2. I personally think SuSE has the most advanced, yet easiest to use configuration system around. It's well worth getting use to.
On Wed, 4 Apr 2001, Albert Wagner wrote:
On Wednesday 04 April 2001 07:44, Jerry Kreps wrote: <snip>
Have you read chapter 4 of SuSE"s manual? It's 30 pages of info.
<snip> No. Don't have it. I thought I would get an e-copy on the dist cd. but, noooooooo.
It is there, package series "doc", named "suselxen". Bye, LenZ -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ Lenz Grimmer SuSE GmbH mailto:grimmer@suse.de Schanzaeckerstr. 10 http://www.suse.de/~grimmer/ 90443 Nuernberg, Germany You live and you learn - or you don't live long.
Thanks, Lenz. I finally figured out how to install the books. Now I just have to find out how to display them. I have never been able to see a dvi file in the KDE viewer. On Friday 06 April 2001 06:54, Lenz Grimmer wrote:
On Wed, 4 Apr 2001, Albert Wagner wrote:
On Wednesday 04 April 2001 07:44, Jerry Kreps wrote: <snip>
Have you read chapter 4 of SuSE"s manual? It's 30 pages of info.
<snip> No. Don't have it. I thought I would get an e-copy on the dist cd. but, noooooooo.
It is there, package series "doc", named "suselxen".
Bye, LenZ
On Tuesday 03 April 2001 10:01 pm, you wrote:
Thanks for your reply, Tim. Do you know where I might find some documentation on just what Yast2 and suseconfig are doing
It looks like Chris did a good job of describing what it does for you. I like to think of it sortof as what the Windows Registry always wanted to be when it grew up. It centralizes settings like the registry, but avoids the problems in two ways: 1.) It doesn't have software apps settings - only the system stuff. 2.) The data is centralized for SuSEconfig's use, but is distributed out to the normal config files once SuSEconfig is run, thus even if rc.config gets deleted the system would run fine. SuSEconfig would be even more useful if other distros adopted it. For instance, say Mandrake has Foo version 10.0 while SuSE has version 11.0, and Bar wants to update Foo's config on both systems even though Foo 10 & 11 have different config formats. If it updated the rc.config file rather than the file directly, the updated SuSEconfig on SuSE could correctly update the data for Foo 11 rather than 10. Hypothetically speaking of course... Most of all though, it just makes things simple, and allows you to update settings in several ways, including by a front end (such as YaST or YaST2), or manually (by running SuSEconfig) without the need of each method re-inventing the wheel. Best, Tim -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- Timothy R. Butler Universal Networks Information Tech. Consultant Christian Web Services Since 1996 ICQ #12495932 AIM: Uninettm An Authorized IPSwitch Reseller tbutler@uninetsolutions.com http://www.uninetsolutions.com ============== "Information Powered by Innovation" ==============
/etc/rc.config was the first thing that struck me when I tried out SuSE. It reminds me of FreeBSD's /etc/rc.conf, except it's more intuitive and does more stuff. The only major things left on my wishlist for SuSE would be: * Something like apt from Debian with an RPM backend (I think a few distros are experimenting with this now). * Would like some kind of subscription upgrade service. I really don't need to buy a new box with manuals (the manuals suck anyway, full of spelling and grammar errors and too short). -Garen On Wednesday 04 April 2001 06:24 pm, you wrote: ...
Most of all though, it just makes things simple, and allows you to update settings in several ways, including by a front end (such as YaST or YaST2), or manually (by running SuSEconfig) without the need of each method re-inventing the wheel.
Best, Tim
At 14:28 04/08/2001 -0700, Garen Parham wrote: /snip/
* Would like some kind of subscription upgrade service. I really don't need to buy a new box with manuals (the manuals suck anyway, full of spelling and grammar errors and too short).
-Garen
Have you looked at the "documentation" for other distro's????? SuSE has such wonderful books (assuming you buy the PRO version) that there is no comparison in any other. Being that Germans wrote it for English-speaking people, I will be very happy to have the information, with the (few) spelling and grammar errors. How would you like to write a manual for Germans? Is your German good enough to avoid all that? Mine isn't, and I have studied the language and spent some time in Germany. I would not like to have to translate the manuals into German! Especially in a short time. Perhaps if I had a few years--and then I wouldn't get it all right, anyway. I'll let you know something: Altho I speak the language reasonably well, it takes a German about two sentences to guess that my native language is English. The only thing they can't figure out is which English- speaking country I come from. There may be some problems with the SuSE Linux distributions, but manuals certainly are not part of those! I went out of my way to buy the professional version, simply to have those manuals. I don't know which of the folks at SuSE are repsonsible for the manuals, but THANK YOU! (This has nothing to do with the usefulness (or not) of a subscription service. I simply had to comment on your stated disapprobation of the manuals.) --Doug
On Sun, 08 Apr 2001 18:20:46 -0400
Doug McGarrett
There may be some problems with the SuSE Linux distributions, but manuals certainly are not part of those! I went out of my way to buy the professional version, simply to have those manuals.
I don't know which of the folks at SuSE are repsonsible for the manuals, but THANK YOU!
Without wanting to gang-up on Garen (because I do see what he means), I just want to agree with this. I have been using SuSE since 6.1 (not as long as many of you I know), and at first I did find some of the English in the manuals a little ... hmmm... tortuous. The more I used them, however, the more I found them genuinely helpful - with just a little effort and patience a newbie can learn a great deal from the manuals, - and I think that real effort has gone into improving the translation with each new edition. Geoff _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
On Sunday 08 April 2001 03:20 pm, you wrote:
Have you looked at the "documentation" for other distro's????? SuSE has such wonderful books (assuming you buy the PRO version) that there is no comparison in any other. Being that Germans wrote it for English-speaking people, I will be very happy to have the information, with the (few) spelling and grammar errors.
Yeah, most other distros suck even more. :)
How would you like to write a manual for Germans? Is your German good enough to avoid all that? Mine isn't, and I have studied the language and spent some time in Germany. I would not like to have to translate the manuals into German! Especially in a short time. Perhaps if I had a few years--and then I wouldn't get it all right, anyway. I'll let you know something: Altho I speak the language reasonably well, it takes a German about two sentences to guess that my native language is English. The only thing they can't figure out is which English- speaking country I come from.
There may be some problems with the SuSE Linux distributions, but manuals certainly are not part of those! I went out of my way to buy the professional version, simply to have those manuals.
Maybe you got better manuals than me then, I got the personal edition. I thought the attractive thing about the Pro version was mainly the DVD disc though. If I had a DVD drive I might've gotten it instead, just 'cuz I hate having to swap CDs every time it asks "Please insert CD#<X>, currently CD#<Y> is inserted." That reminds me, I don't think I've ever looked or used at the 3rd CD. ...
(This has nothing to do with the usefulness (or not) of a subscription service. I simply had to comment on your stated disapprobation of the manuals.)
k :)
Hi, Garen. I also bought Personal SuSE. The missing manuals can be downloaded in PDF from: ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/suse/i386/7.1/full-names/i386/ The file for the SuSE handbook is suselxen, 600 pages. After taking 2 days attempting double-sided printing on my Dj540, I decided that next time I would buy the version with the preprinted manuals. Even so, the book WAS worth 2 days, a ream of paper and a whole ink cartridge.
Albert Wagner wrote:
Hi, Garen. I also bought Personal SuSE. The missing manuals can be downloaded in PDF from:
ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/suse/i386/7.1/full-names/i386/
The file for the SuSE handbook is suselxen, 600 pages. After taking 2 days attempting double-sided printing on my Dj540, I decided that next time I would buy the version with the preprinted manuals. Even so, the book WAS worth 2 days, a ream of paper and a whole ink cartridge.
To me, the book is worth the "Professional" price, and the distro is free. Having just bought for someone else a copy of the equivalent (in price) Red Hat 7, the reason someone would pay that amount of money for that amount of product still makes me shake my head. This is the way it has always been with SuSE vs. Red Hat. -- Every creature has within him the wild, uncontrollable urge to punt.
participants (10)
-
Albert Wagner -
Ben Rosenberg -
Chris Reeves -
Doug McGarrett -
Garen Parham -
Jerry Kreps -
Lenz Grimmer -
quintaq＠yahoo.co.uk -
Tim Hanson -
Timothy R.Butler