Anton Aylward wrote:

On 01/25/2015 09:05 AM, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

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I read the lists in Thunderbird on oS 13.1 64-bit, and I just upgraded to the latest version 31.4.0, but I *think* these issues began occurring shortly before I updated. I don't know if it's my client or other people are seeing the same.

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I don't see it.

Neither do I, with the exception of a (very) few posters who occasionally but consistently 'break thread', probably because of broken or misconfigured mailers.

Like Peter, I have 13.1, Thunderbird 31.4.0.

Perhaps if Peter could identify the posters, posts and date. Perhaps if he could inspect the anomalous posts to see what the headers, in particular, In-Reply-To: and References:, are on those anomalous posts, or if those fields are missing.

Istvan Gabor's postings don't have any References headers, that's the only issue I see currently. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (2.1°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - virtual servers, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 25/01/15 15:16, Anton Aylward wrote:

On 01/25/2015 09:05 AM, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

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...

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I read the lists in Thunderbird on oS 13.1 64-bit, and I just upgraded to the latest version 31.4.0, but I *think* these issues began occurring shortly before I updated. I don't know if it's my client or other people are seeing the same.

...

I don't see it.

Neither do I, with the exception of a (very) few posters who occasionally but consistently 'break thread', probably because of broken or misconfigured mailers.

Like Peter, I have 13.1, Thunderbird 31.4.0.

Perhaps if Peter could identify the posters, posts and date. Perhaps if he could inspect the anomalous posts to see what the headers, in particular, In-Reply-To: and References:, are on those anomalous posts, or if those fields are missing.

Your own reply and that of Per demonstrates the issue, but since it appears to be just me, I'm now suspecting this could be a problem with my mail provider (mail.com in this case for this address) Whilst you posted your replies in the afternoon and early evening my time, only a few scattered posts came through during yesterday and threads are still a jumbled mess (I've not accidentally re-sorted the columns), but now in the early hours of the morning 22 new posts show up including yours. Thunderbird receives constantly from the IMAP account so long as I click on its Inbox now and then, which I do regularly. To take another example, the thread 'What is /run/user/<user-id> directory and how to make sure it's created?' has just seen three new posts appear, those from 25/01/15 at 03:18 from Carlos and two nested posts many hours later, yet I've been checking the account throughout 25/01 and only a few dribs and drabs of other posts were appearing all day. Unless I've been added to some filter by either the list maintainer, my French ISP or GCHQ, I'll have to consider it more likely the mail provider at fault. If it continues more than a few more days I'll look into it some more. Feels like an early taste of what Cameron's new Britain has to offer... Cheers, Peter -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 26/01/15 04:08, Carlos E. R. wrote:

Just hit ctrl-U in Thunderbird while displaying one of the delayed emails. Look from the top-down at the lines that start with "Received:". They have a format like:

Received: from PREVIOUS_STEP_SERVER ... by CURRENT_STEP_SERVER ...; some_date

and some more text in between. The format varies depending on what software wrote each entry.

So that they form a chain:

Received: from SERVER_C ... by SERVER_D some_date

Received: from SERVER_B ... by SERVER_C some_date

Received: from SERVER_A ... by SERVER_B some_date

So that you can see when it went out of the writer, when it entered suse, when it went out, when it reached your ISP, and possibly when you retrieved it. Everything is timestamped. You can determine precisely where the mail got stuck. It is easy.

Just be mindful of timezones.

Nowdays computers keep good clock time, so this is more reliable than it was.

It's just getting weirder. Example headers attached further down. Throughout this afternoon (26 Jan, CET) I continued receiving scattered messages from this ML, some dating from the 23rd or 24th Jan. Then I noticed that some were messages I'd already seen yesterday, but which had disappeared and were coming in and being marked as 'new, unread' all over again. Even my own post from the early hours of this morning was gone. Over the course of two to three hours today, new (old) messages continued trickling through every few minutes, my own from about 14 hours earlier eventually reappearing as 'new'. Of course, this is making it difficult for me to reply here not knowing what replies have already been replied to and by whom. 'New' messages coming in are frequently ones that belong earlier in the thread (by conversation logic, not by date, as one responder whose message I now cannot find was questioning me about). I check this account via IMAP and have Thunderbird set to 'Keep messages for this account on this computer', to 'Synchronise all messages locally regardless of age', and 'Do not delete any messages'. Just in the course of checking those settings and *cancelling* the dialogue, Thunderbird is this moment now re-downloading 929 messages from this mailing list, inexplicably. It normally only performs a full folder download operation like that when I set up the account on another machine. It's just completed without finding new messages, but perhaps it will now behave itself. This is all a mystery. It's behaving erratically. My account settings have always remained the same on both this and my POP accounts using versions of Thunderbird over the last decade from pre-1.0. I prefer, for various reasons, to not have messages checked automatically or at startup, so those options are unticked, as they've always been. But I do click on 'Get Messages' frequently for the POP account. In the case of this IMAP account, merely clicking on the Inbox automatically checks the messages, and for a period that I've never determined the exact length of afterwards, perhaps a quarter or half of an hour, further messages continue to come in on that account. I then need to click on the account's Inbox again. It seems to open a connection that has a set length. Perhaps that seems odd to anybody who doesn't use the settings that way, but this is how it has always behaved for many years. 'Get Messages' is hence unnecessary for the IMAP account, but clicking its drop-down entry for this account anyway doesn't bring anything new in. I've been onto my mail.com webmail interface and checked the account's settings. Nothing seems wrong there but I've now disabled spam/virus checking just to be sure that's not interfering. Here's the headers of the message from Carlos to which I'm replying. I don't know if I should be redacting anything in here:

Return-Path: opensuse+bounces-169347-gumb=linuxmail.org@opensuse.org Received: from lists4.suse.de ([195.135.221.135]) by mx-ha.gmx.net (mxgmxus004) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0MGRp0-1YSyW11bhw-00DHgO for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2015 15:57:37 +0100 Received: from lists4.suse.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lists4.suse.de (Postfix) with SMTP id 7F2A186B2DF; Mon, 26 Jan 2015 03:09:04 +0000 (GMT) X-Original-To: opensuse@lists4.opensuse.org Delivered-To: opensuse@lists4.opensuse.org Received: from relay1.suse.de (unknown [149.44.160.133]) by lists4.suse.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 601C986B281 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2015 03:09:00 +0000 (GMT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay1.suse.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A647196C for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2015 04:09:00 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at localhost X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.001 tagged_above=-9999 required=5 tests=[FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001] autolearn=disabled Received: from relay1.suse.de ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id XeKJIZGXZoLo for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2015 04:08:59 +0100 (CET) Received: from mx2.suse.de (cantor2.suse.de [195.135.220.15]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by relay1.suse.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C6EA31945 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2015 04:08:59 +0100 (CET) Received: from smtp.movistar.es (smtp11.acens.net [86.109.99.135]) by mx2.suse.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 873D5AB9B for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2015 03:08:59 +0000 (UTC) X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A0B0201.54C5AFCB.0002,ss=1,re=0.000,recu=0.000,reip=0.000,cl=1,cld=1,fgs=0 X-CTCH-Spam: Unknown Received: from Telcontar.valinor (83.54.51.165) by smtp.movistar.es (8.6.122.03) (authenticated as robin.listas2) id 54615F2D024918A1 for opensuse@opensuse.org; Mon, 26 Jan 2015 03:08:59 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Telcontar.valinor (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F25061108 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2015 04:08:56 +0100 (CET) Received: from Telcontar.valinor ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Telcontar.valinor [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 2xVKnwG0gJVD for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2015 04:08:55 +0100 (CET) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Telcontar.valinor (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD4E4604CA for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2015 04:08:55 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <54C5AFBE.2080009@telefonica.net> Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2015 04:08:46 +0100 From: "Carlos E. R." User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.3.0 Precedence: bulk Mailing-List: contact opensuse+help@opensuse.org; run by mlmmj X-Mailinglist: opensuse List-Post: mailto:opensuse@opensuse.org List-Help: mailto:opensuse+help@opensuse.org List-Subscribe: mailto:opensuse+subscribe@opensuse.org List-Unsubscribe: mailto:opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org List-Owner: mailto:opensuse+owner@opensuse.org List-Archive: http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse/ X-MIME-Notice: attachments may have been removed from this message MIME-Version: 1.0 To: oS-en Subject: Re: [opensuse] mailing list threading problems? (Thunderbird) References: <54C4F5DF.4040204@linuxmail.org> <20150125140527.GT21053@wahoo.no-ip.org> <54C4FAAB.6050406@antonaylward.com> <54C59A75.6040201@linuxmail.org> In-Reply-To: <54C59A75.6040201@linuxmail.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="QqWEQAWhrIegLbk2HsuWLDCRBMHUn7p36" Envelope-To: X-GMX-Antispam: 0 (Mail was not recognized as spam); Detail=V3; X-GMX-Antivirus: -2 (not scanned) X-UI-Filterresults: notjunk:1

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 01/26/2015 03:09 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

Now you could go and ask the suse mail list admin to please have a look and see if there is some reason he can find for the delay, because maybe there is some further information in the suse logs.

At one time the Admin had some traps on mail that seemed like it was going to address verboten topics. These had to be approved by him before they would be sent out. - -- After all is said and done, more is said than done. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iEYEARECAAYFAlTGy28ACgkQv7M3G5+2DLLI8wCgkEgP1qj6Ku6+RcCKyLrpnrdM p70AoIsNZTWNpnTtBnMyEWDf7efDXSKH =AbqS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 27/01/15 02:44, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2015-01-27 00:19, John Andersen wrote:

...

At one time the Admin had some traps on mail that seemed like it was going to address verboten topics. These had to be approved by him before they would be sent out.

Not at that step. The email has already gotten out from the list server.

Thanks for the advice. I might email the admin later but it seems now that things are back to behaving themselves, with this post of yours coming through instantly. Besides which, though it's 3am here and sleeting at -1°, I have to leave to go to work :((((( I would understand if the emails just wanted to stay at home. French word of the day: dégueulasse -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

My mail is threading properly, I'm using OpenSuse 13.1 KDE3PIM. -- Bob Smits "Microsoft is not the answer. Microsoft is the question. NO is the answer."   - Erik Naggum -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 01/25/15 19:51, Per Jessen wrote:

John Andersen wrote:

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I think all it takes is one person using a mailer that doesn't properly send "in reply to headers" to break the thread.

Usually it's the References header that is used to tie things together.

http://cr.yp.to/immhf/thread.html

Actually, done right, it's both. If anybody wants to know how threading is done properly (Thunderbird has still deficiencies, AFAIR), jwz documented the Algorithm-To-Use(tm): http://www.jwz.org/doc/threading.html That document also supplies information about the relevant headers that goes beyond standards, with data to back it up. When I implemented my last MUA, I found that page invaluable. The approach presented there really works, all others have problems in some places. Cheers, Joachim -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Joachim Schrod, Roedermark, Germany Email: jschrod@acm.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org