On Mon, 6 Jul 2020 at 11:44:20 +0200, Marcus Meissner wrote:

On Mon, Jul 06, 2020 at 11:37:22AM +0200, Wolfgang Mueller wrote:

...

Typing "zypper up", I get this response:

     Loading repository data...      Reading installed packages...

     The following 7 package updates will NOT be installed:        MozillaThunderbird libfreebl3 libfreebl3-hmac libsoftokn3        libsoftokn3-hmac mozilla-nspr mozilla-nss-certs

     Nothing to do.

It could also have told me that millions of other updates would not be installed. Why did it nominate just these seven ones?

They might be coming from different repositories than the standard update repo.

What happens if you do e.g.

zypper in MozillaThunderbird

Then it advises me to run zypper install MozillaThunderbird-68.9.0-lp152.1.2.x86_6 The same thing happens with the other package updates listed above: zypper install libfreebl3-3.53.1-lp152.1.4.x86_64 zypper install mozilla-nspr-4.25-lp152.1.3.x86_64 zypper install mozilla-nss-certs-3.53.1-lp152.1.4.x86_64 It would be nice if I could add a repository that allows performing these updates without all this boring specifications to be added manually. But unfortunately the system keeps secret such a repository. Thank you for your help, Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Mon, 6 Jul 2020 at 11:47:36 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 06/07/2020 11.37, Wolfgang Mueller wrote:

...

Typing "zypper up", I get this response:

      Loading repository data...       Reading installed packages...

      The following 7 package updates will NOT be installed:         MozillaThunderbird libfreebl3 libfreebl3-hmac libsoftokn3         libsoftokn3-hmac mozilla-nspr mozilla-nss-certs

      Nothing to do.

It could also have told me that millions of other updates would not be installed. Why did it nominate just these seven ones?

No, because it "sees" 7 updates in the repositories you have enabled, but your configured rules say no to them.

Like, for example, meaning a vendor change.

Is there any possibility to configure an automatic vendor change? If so, could you please tell me how that is done? Thank you in advance and best regards, Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

...

Is there any possibility to configure an automatic vendor change?

Too dangerous. But yes, I think it is --allowvendorchange or something similar. Or equivalent in config file. No, that wouldn't work as desired. zypper would look at the version numbers of

Op maandag 6 juli 2020 12:44:23 CEST schreef Carlos E. R.: packages to update. And I've seen dozens of occasions where f.e. the ffmpeg related libs would move from Packman to openSUSE and back with that on as a default. Best is to use the switch with the zypper command to keep the intentional vendor changes intact. -- Gertjan Lettink a.k.a. Knurpht openSUSE Forums Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Mon, 6 Jul 2020 at 12:44:23 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 06/07/2020 12.38, Wolfgang Mueller wrote:

...

On Mon, 6 Jul 2020 at 11:47:36 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

On 06/07/2020 11.37, Wolfgang Mueller wrote:

...

Typing "zypper up", I get this response:

      Loading repository data...       Reading installed packages...

      The following 7 package updates will NOT be installed:         MozillaThunderbird libfreebl3 libfreebl3-hmac libsoftokn3         libsoftokn3-hmac mozilla-nspr mozilla-nss-certs

      Nothing to do.

It could also have told me that millions of other updates would not be installed. Why did it nominate just these seven ones?

No, because it "sees" 7 updates in the repositories you have enabled, but your configured rules say no to them.

Like, for example, meaning a vendor change.

Is there any possibility to configure an automatic vendor change?

Too dangerous. But yes, I think it is --allowvendorchange or something similar. Or equivalent in config file.

...

If so, could you please tell me how that is done?

You can fire up YaST, search for thunderbird, then select the version you want. If you really want that.

That's what I did some minutes ago: In Yast, I added http://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/linux/misc/packman/suse/openSUSE_Leap_15.2 to the repositories, giving it the name "Packman". Then I invoked       zypper dup --from Packman --allow-vendor-change which created the following response: The following 26 packages are going to change vendor:    ffmpeg-3                     openSUSE -> http://packman.links2linux.de    gstreamer-plugins-ugly       openSUSE -> http://packman.links2linux.de    gstreamer-plugins-ugly-lang  openSUSE -> http://packman.links2linux.de    libavcodec57                 openSUSE -> http://packman.links2linux.de    libavcodec58                 openSUSE -> http://packman.links2linux.de    libavdevice57                openSUSE -> http://packman.links2linux.de    libavfilter6                 openSUSE -> http://packman.links2linux.de    libavformat57                openSUSE -> http://packman.links2linux.de    libavformat58                openSUSE -> http://packman.links2linux.de    libavresample3               openSUSE -> http://packman.links2linux.de    libavutil55                  openSUSE -> http://packman.links2linux.de    libavutil56                  openSUSE -> http://packman.links2linux.de    libgstphotography-1_0-0      openSUSE -> http://packman.links2linux.de    libpostproc54                openSUSE -> http://packman.links2linux.de    libswresample2               openSUSE -> http://packman.links2linux.de    libswresample3               openSUSE -> http://packman.links2linux.de    libswscale4                  openSUSE -> http://packman.links2linux.de    libvlc5                      openSUSE -> http://packman.links2linux.de    libvlccore9                  openSUSE -> http://packman.links2linux.de    vlc                          openSUSE -> http://packman.links2linux.de    vlc-codec-gstreamer          openSUSE -> http://packman.links2linux.de    vlc-lang                     openSUSE -> http://packman.links2linux.de    vlc-noX                      openSUSE -> http://packman.links2linux.de    vlc-opencv                   openSUSE -> http://packman.links2linux.de    vlc-qt                       openSUSE -> http://packman.links2linux.de    vlc-vdpau                    openSUSE -> http://packman.links2linux.de 26 packages to upgrade, 6 new, 26  to change vendor. Then I answered Yes, and the updates listed above were performed. Now, I always have to type these three requests for getting the complete updates: zypper patch zypper up zypper dup --from Packman --allow-vendor-change Thank you for your help and best regards, Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Op maandag 6 juli 2020 14:05:09 CEST schreef Patrick Shanahan:

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zypper patch zypper up zypper dup --from Packman --allow-vendor-change

so where did you decide that "zypper dup ... " was necessary or required?

you should not utilize "zypper dup" for Leap. Please read first. One should use 'dup' in this occasion. The 'dup --from ....." is necessary to make the vendor change for the Packman repo. Exactly what the "Switch system packages ...." item in YaST does.

-- Gertjan Lettink a.k.a. Knurpht openSUSE Forums Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

* Patrick Shanahan [07-06-20 08:20]:

* Knurpht-openSUSE [07-06-20 08:14]:

...

Op maandag 6 juli 2020 14:05:09 CEST schreef Patrick Shanahan:

...

...

zypper patch zypper up zypper dup --from Packman --allow-vendor-change

so where did you decide that "zypper dup ... " was necessary or required?

you should not utilize "zypper dup" for Leap. Please read first. One should use 'dup' in this occasion. The 'dup --from ....." is necessary to make the vendor change for the Packman repo. Exactly what the "Switch system packages ...." item in YaST does.

he already did the "dup" from packman. it is not necessary to repeat. what did I not "read first"?

and just for the record, when specifying a repo, "--from Packman", --allow-vernor-change should not be necessary. It should be understood that you want to change to vendor "Packman". -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 06/07/2020 14.18, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

* Knurpht-openSUSE [07-06-20 08:14]:

...

Op maandag 6 juli 2020 14:05:09 CEST schreef Patrick Shanahan:

...

...

zypper patch zypper up zypper dup --from Packman --allow-vendor-change

so where did you decide that "zypper dup ... " was necessary or required?

you should not utilize "zypper dup" for Leap. Please read first. One should use 'dup' in this occasion. The 'dup --from ....." is necessary to make the vendor change for the Packman repo. Exactly what the "Switch system packages ...." item in YaST does.

he already did the "dup" from packman. it is not necessary to repeat. what did I not "read first"?

Problem is, sometimes a package changes and has to be installed from packman "instead". -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)

On 06/07/2020 16.14, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

* Carlos E. R. [07-06-20 10:03]:

...

On 06/07/2020 14.18, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...

* Knurpht-openSUSE [07-06-20 08:14]:

...

Op maandag 6 juli 2020 14:05:09 CEST schreef Patrick Shanahan:

...

...

zypper patch zypper up zypper dup --from Packman --allow-vendor-change

so where did you decide that "zypper dup ... " was necessary or required?

you should not utilize "zypper dup" for Leap. Please read first. One should use 'dup' in this occasion. The 'dup --from ....." is necessary to make the vendor change for the Packman repo. Exactly what the "Switch system packages ...." item in YaST does.

he already did the "dup" from packman. it is not necessary to repeat. what did I not "read first"?

Problem is, sometimes a package changes and has to be installed from packman "instead".

You will need to explain that to me as it makes absolutely no sense.

Well, developers change their mind, don't ask me.

After using dup to apply from a *specific* repo, that repo becomes the current vendor and will be retained until it is directed to change.

Only for the packages that were switched that time.

If a package changes not from packman, it will be updated from the repo where it was previously taken.

Exactly.

If it needs to be from packman instead of that repo, it will require *specific* direction to do so.

No, you need to know or find out. Suppose package somevideothing. It is installed from oss repo. It is not available on packman. Then five months later, it appears in packman. Chances are, we need to switch that package to packman for some funcionality. The reverse also happens, a package disapears from packman and appears in "multimedia" repo.

AI is wonderful but frequently needs direction, it is not all-knowing, nor is zypper.

-- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)

On 06/07/2020 22.01, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

* Carlos E. R. <> [07-06-20 14:12]:

...

On 06/07/2020 16.14, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...

* Carlos E. R. <> [07-06-20 10:03]:

...

On 06/07/2020 14.18, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...

* Knurpht-openSUSE <> [07-06-20 08:14]:

...

Op maandag 6 juli 2020 14:05:09 CEST schreef Patrick Shanahan: >> zypper patch >> zypper up >> zypper dup --from Packman --allow-vendor-change > > so where did you decide that "zypper dup ... " was necessary or required? > > you should not utilize "zypper dup" for Leap. Please read first. One should use 'dup' in this occasion. The 'dup --from ....." is necessary to make the vendor change for the Packman repo. Exactly what the "Switch system packages ...." item in YaST does.

he already did the "dup" from packman. it is not necessary to repeat. what did I not "read first"?

Problem is, sometimes a package changes and has to be installed from packman "instead".

You will need to explain that to me as it makes absolutely no sense.

Well, developers change their mind, don't ask me.

well it was your statement and still makes no sense, and you have failed to explain.

...

...

After using dup to apply from a *specific* repo, that repo becomes the current vendor and will be retained until it is directed to change.

Only for the packages that were switched that time.

why would it do anything different? what would one want differen? that would be one's expectation. anything different would be unexpected and a bug.

...

...

If a package changes not from packman, it will be updated from the repo where it was previously taken.

Exactly.

...

If it needs to be from packman instead of that repo, it will require *specific* direction to do so.

No, you need to know or find out.

and I fail to understand that statement. if I direct zypper to utilize a different repo, zypper has no way to understand that I might want something different, nor does yast. why would you presume otherwise?

...

Suppose package somevideothing. It is installed from oss repo. It is not available on packman. Then five months later, it appears in packman. Chances are, we need to switch that package to packman for some funcionality.

then *you* need to tell zypper to change it as zypper would have no idea and one cannot expect it to. if it changed repos w/o you expressing that wish, it would be a bug.

...

The reverse also happens, a package disapears from packman and appears in "multimedia" repo.

zypper is *not* all knowing and neither is yast and one cannot expect them to be. *you* administer your boxes and *you* must acquire that knowledge. I cannot even wonder why you bring this condition.

.

I give up. You are being obtuse. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)

In Yast, I found "Vendor change" in Options, but not "Switch system packages". I must be one of those features that are hidden so well that they a unusable.

yast2 / softwaremanagement view / repositorys chose "packman" now in the top (over the list of package names) there is in blue color written: "switch system packages" klick on it and all packages what are already on your system AND also installable from the "packman" repo will be changed to packman. simoN -- www.becherer.de -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Mon, 6 Jul 2020 at 16:09:19 +0200, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

* Knurpht-openSUSE [07-06-20 08:14]:

...

Op maandag 6 juli 2020 14:05:09 CEST schreef Patrick Shanahan:

...

...

zypper patch zypper up zypper dup --from Packman --allow-vendor-change

so where did you decide that "zypper dup ... " was necessary or required?

you should not utilize "zypper dup" for Leap. Please read first. One should use 'dup' in this occasion. The 'dup --from ....." is necessary to make the vendor change for the Packman   repo. Exactlywhat the "Switch system packages  ...." item in YaST does.

he has *already* done the "zypper dup", no reason to continue as indicated.  *Please* *read* *first*.

I have not argued that the "dup --from *repo*" was not necessary but the "--allow-vendor-change" is not necessary as the repo has been *specified*. Please read first, as you have indicated.

If I have understood you well,       zypper dup --from Packman       zypper up --allow-vendor-change are equivalent, and       zypper dup --from Packman --allow-vendor-change is a pleonasm.  Am I right? Bye, Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Mon, 6 Jul 2020 at 19:28:57 +0200, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

* Wolfgang Mueller [07-06-20 13:23]:

...

On Mon, 6 Jul 2020 at 16:09:19 +0200, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...

* Knurpht-openSUSE [07-06-20 08:14]:

...

Op maandag 6 juli 2020 14:05:09 CEST schreef Patrick Shanahan:

...

...

zypper patch zypper up zypper dup --from Packman --allow-vendor-change

so where did you decide that "zypper dup ... " was necessary or required?

you should not utilize "zypper dup" for Leap. Please read first. One should use 'dup' in this occasion. The 'dup --from ....." is necessary to make the vendor change for the Packman     repo. Exactlywhat the "Switch system packages  ...." item in YaST does.

he has *already* done the "zypper dup", no reason to continue as indicated.  *Please* *read* *first*.

I have not argued that the "dup --from *repo*" was not necessary but the "--allow-vendor-change" is not necessary as the repo has been *specified*. Please read first, as you have indicated.

If I have understood you well,

        zypper dup --from Packman         zypper up --allow-vendor-change

are equivalent, and

When a vendor is specified as above, packman, you have told zypper that you desire a vendor change if it is necessary, so the answer is yes.

...

        zypper dup --from Packman --allow-vendor-change

is a pleonasm.  Am I right?

yes

and the comment about using "dup" on Leap is that in this case it was only necessary to direct zypper to use packages from packman for this instance. After, packman is the present "vendor" and should remain so until you direct a change, ie: "dup" is no longer required.

What I want to do is using Packman in certain cases only, but not as my default vendor, which should remain openSuSE. Is this performed by one of the following instructions or by both?         zypper up --from Packman         zypper up --allow-vendor-change Or do I need "dup"?

and I use too many words, but others will say I don't read/comprehend :)

A native speaker like you (I suppose) never uses too many words for explaining something to a dumb German. Bye, Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

* Wolfgang Mueller [07-06-20 14:15]: [...]

What I want to do is using Packman in certain cases only, but not as my default vendor, which should remain openSuSE. Is this performed by one of the following instructions or by both?

        zypper up --from Packman         zypper up --allow-vendor-change

Or do I need "dup"?

you have used "dup" to change from to packman, and the packages you have now from packman will remain with packman unless you issue "--allow-vendor-change" and dup should no longer be required unless you preform a similar action specifying a repo other than were the packages are now living. now and forward, using "zypper up" currently assign repos should be respected and "-allow-vendor-change" should only be necessary if you want to install an existing package from a different (packman or ...) repo. once you install a package from a repo, that repo will be utilized forever or until you direct zypper to use a different one. imnsho, you probably will not ever need "dup" again for Leap. you might also look at "zypper lock" as a means of ensuring specific repos are respected. there may be packages or versions of packages or packages from specific repos which you desire or which you definitely do not want and locks can ensure that. good luck, -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

* Carlos E. R. [07-06-20 14:20]:

On 06/07/2020 16.09, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...

* Knurpht-openSUSE [07-06-20 08:14]:

...

Op maandag 6 juli 2020 14:05:09 CEST schreef Patrick Shanahan:

...

...

zypper patch zypper up zypper dup --from Packman --allow-vendor-change

so where did you decide that "zypper dup ... " was necessary or required?

you should not utilize "zypper dup" for Leap. Please read first. One should use 'dup' in this occasion. The 'dup --from ....." is necessary to make the vendor change for the Packman repo. Exactly what the "Switch system packages ...." item in YaST does.

he has *already* done the "zypper dup", no reason to continue as indicated. *Please* *read* *first*.

I have not argued that the "dup --from *repo*" was not necessary but the "--allow-vendor-change" is not necessary as the repo has been *specified*. Please read first, as you have indicated.

There is a bug in 15.1 at least, where zypper or yast will ask when you do the dup to decide for every single package if you want to switch repo, which is obvious we do want to. Thus the extra "--allow-vendor-change". I do not know if the problem has been corrected in 15.2.

so there still is no reason/logic to include the extra parameter. and you are sure of this bug, I cannot find any reference? please cite. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

* Carlos E. R. [07-06-20 16:53]:

On 06/07/2020 22.05, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...

* Carlos E. R. [07-06-20 14:20]:

...

On 06/07/2020 16.09, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...

* Knurpht-openSUSE [07-06-20 08:14]:

...

Op maandag 6 juli 2020 14:05:09 CEST schreef Patrick Shanahan:

...

> zypper patch > zypper up > zypper dup --from Packman --allow-vendor-change

so where did you decide that "zypper dup ... " was necessary or required?

you should not utilize "zypper dup" for Leap. Please read first. One should use 'dup' in this occasion. The 'dup --from ....." is necessary to make the vendor change for the Packman repo. Exactly what the "Switch system packages ...." item in YaST does.

he has *already* done the "zypper dup", no reason to continue as indicated. *Please* *read* *first*.

I have not argued that the "dup --from *repo*" was not necessary but the "--allow-vendor-change" is not necessary as the repo has been *specified*. Please read first, as you have indicated.

There is a bug in 15.1 at least, where zypper or yast will ask when you do the dup to decide for every single package if you want to switch repo, which is obvious we do want to. Thus the extra "--allow-vendor-change". I do not know if the problem has been corrected in 15.2.

so there still is no reason/logic to include the extra parameter.

and you are sure of this bug, I cannot find any reference? please cite.

Yes, I'm absolutely sure. For instance, Bug 1088578

The bug #1088578 which you refer is closed, fixed and not about zypper but yast updates and not applicable to this conversation. So there still is no reason or logic to include the upper parameter. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

* Carlos E. R. [07-06-20 17:48]:

On 06/07/2020 23.41, Patrick Shanahan wrote: [..]

...

The bug #1088578 which you refer is closed, fixed and not about zypper but yast updates and not applicable to this conversation. So there still is no reason or logic to include the upper parameter.

It is the same thing in zypper. Yes, it is closed, but I have observed it in 15.1 a month ago.

then why didn't you re-open the bug. fwiw, I have never observed it. there is still no logic. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org