You know, I read all of the posts that were written regarding whether or not Linux was ready for the desktop and ready to compete with Mickeysoft. Guess what? I don't think so yet. Let me give you a for instance. This morning I was looking for a HTML editor that had a few bells and whistles to make the job easier. I went to the TUCOWS site and examined the offerings. For Windoz, there were so many programs offered that it was hard to make a choice. I then proceeded to the Linux section. I immediately got suspicious when there was not presented a clear cut choice. It seems that HTML editing is not straight forward. You are presented with four (4) categories, each category embellished with a photograph of a good looking young man or woman. What those categories or the photos have to do with the software is beyond me. To cut to the quick of this matter, it seems that the only HTML editors for Linux are the same old sorry text editors, i.e., jed, joe, pico and every masochist's dream vi and all of it's incarnations. As much as I despise Mickeysoft for their nasty business practices, their horribly written software and their total lack of support, they are way ahead in the small things that make life easier. I don't want to write HTML in vi. In fact I don't want to ever write anything in vi or TeTex. I enjoy a few creature comforts from time to time and for the time being it seems that Linux does not yet offer enough to compete. Rusty -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
Part of the problem is lack of applications (in comparison to M$) Part is culture. Linux is tied into the unix way of thinking (I come from a dos/windows windows world) and the tools and metaliity are just diffrent. ie editors. vi and emacs . I bet youl find a programing/html module for either of these vernable tools. But , if you come from a windows world ie editor.exe or the wondows version , where there are a whole bunch of pull down menues that do it all for you. The only thing I have seen was edy and it was in german. I now use joe , and nned to constanly look up the key commands. Kedit in nice too , in x if you have it running. Things are changeing , and more chioces are starting to appear. ie corel linux WPO2000 has just came on line , and there ais applicawae and star office as well , for that segment of the market. WP Offce 2000 even has paradox for those uf us who are "database challenged" , and even pgaccess if you want to incvest the time . Applixware has a data module ( I realy want to try that real soon) that I hope will fill my neads , as I realy like applixware , especialy on older hardware. then there the culture thing . Linux is more of a rough id out as it is or with what you got kind of enviorment , that requirs you investr the time and effort into the technical aspects of it.Lucky gor the gpl enviorment , and the eas of taking whats allready ben built and wworking with it to build your needs on top of whats there. Windows is much more of a newbie / hand held eviorment and there is not the need for so much technical familiarity , as everthing is put behind check boxes , pull down list and radio button forms. At 09:18 AM 5/23/2000 -0800, Rusty wrote:
You know, I read all of the posts that were written regarding whether or not Linux was ready for the desktop and ready to compete with Mickeysoft.
Guess what? I don't think so yet. Let me give you a for instance. This morning I was looking for a HTML editor that had a few bells and whistles to make the job easier. I went to the TUCOWS site and examined the offerings. For Windoz, there were so many programs offered that it was hard to make a choice. I then proceeded to the Linux section. I immediately got suspicious when there was not presented a clear cut choice. It seems that HTML editing is not straight forward. You are presented with four (4) categories, each category embellished with a photograph of a good looking young man or woman. What those categories or the photos have to do with the software is beyond me.
To cut to the quick of this matter, it seems that the only HTML editors for Linux are the same old sorry text editors, i.e., jed, joe, pico and every masochist's dream vi and all of it's incarnations.
As much as I despise Mickeysoft for their nasty business practices, their horribly written software and their total lack of support, they are way ahead in the small things that make life easier.
I don't want to write HTML in vi. In fact I don't want to ever write anything in vi or TeTex. I enjoy a few creature comforts from time to time and for the time being it seems that Linux does not yet offer enough to compete.
Rusty
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Part of the problem is lack of applications (in comparison to M$) Part is culture.
Linux is tied into the unix way of thinking (I come from a dos/windows windows world) and the tools and metaliity are just diffrent.
Interestingly one of my complaints about packages such as Netscape, Star Office, Kmail, etc is that they are very much tied to the "Windows" way of handling multiple users. i.e. end users are expected to enter all sorts of details, POP3 usernames/passwords, etc. Rather than the approach used with traditional unix applications (even old Netware email apps) where information is infered by the username/UID. The concepts of "Your email is in /var/spool/mail/<user>, ~/Mailbox, ~/Maildir/ or even \\server\<user>\Maildir\, SYS:MAIL\<bind-id>, etc"; "Your details are in /etc/passwd, passwd.byname, bindary, NDS tree, etc keyed to your username/UID"; "Your bookmarks/history/cookies live in your user directory" So valuable for having workstations easily usable by any user appear to have passed many current programmers by. -- Mark Evans St. Peter's CofE High School Phone: +44 1392 204764 X109 Fax: +44 1392 204763 -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
Mark Evans wrote:
Interestingly one of my complaints about packages such as Netscape, Star Office, Kmail, etc is that they are very much tied to the "Windows" way of handling multiple users. i.e. end users are expected to enter all sorts of details, POP3 usernames/passwords, etc. Rather than the approach used with traditional unix applications (even old Netware email apps) where information is infered by the username/UID.
The concepts of "Your email is in /var/spool/mail/<user>, ~/Mailbox, ~/Maildir/ or even \\server\<user>\Maildir\, SYS:MAIL\<bind-id>, etc"; "Your details are in /etc/passwd, passwd.byname, bindary, NDS tree, etc keyed to your username/UID"; "Your bookmarks/history/cookies live in your user directory"
So valuable for having workstations easily usable by any user appear to have passed many current programmers by.
I couldn't agree more! <rant> The (other) very real issue, is readily apparent as well. Look at Melissa, ILOVEYOU, and associated virii... they can't DO anything on a system where permissions are set on a file by file basis, rather than " you got past the login, so you must be okay" mindset. I have the utmost respect for the business and marketing ability of M$, and if it weren't for them I'd probably still be driving RoadTrains. But by enabling all sorts of people to have access to a data medium like the interenet, in such a haphazard way, they have created a rod for their own backs. </rant> -- Regards Don Hansford ECKYTECH COMPUTING Surfing the Net (without crashing) With SuSE 6.4 Linux (Thanx Linus!) "Microsoft democratised the computer market and served as a catalyst in making computers available to everybody. Later, however, they did as many revolutionaries do -- they became dictators. History has taught us the inevitable fate of dictators." -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
More Rant about permission in NT (there's no such thing in windows): Recently at my school some dumba$$ changed the swap file setting in NT to 0 and 3 machines bombed out. The reason it's possible because Real player needs administrative rights and one of the courses uses exclusively real player (CCNA). There's also experiences where files were deleted by someone else using the computer, even the file are assigned permission. In Linux at home I have no such problem, Real player runs the same on root or myself unpriviledged. There's no way for me to change the swapfile, even if somehow it did, I would have enable a swap file in about three commands. As to file to file permission, I accidentally set the umask of a directory wrong, and my friends were unable to even enter the folders! Point is, linux is not exactly ready for the windummies out there, but everything else are so much better there's no other system (well maybe unix) like it. Calyth -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
Hello SuSE, Anybody know how to make that special file..(/dev/midi). Why theren't that file ..in My SuSE 6.2 system. But there are /dev/midi0 /dev/midi1 /dev/midi2 etc. . After has that file (/dev/midi) what will I do to make My Midi work ?? I have use a sound module (CMEDIA) and add line alias char-major-14 cmpci option cmpci four_ch=1 modem=1 -- Best regards, Syeh mailto:A3@Telkom.net -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
6.4 has one, but it is a symlink to /dev/midi0. Syeh Abidin wrote:
Hello SuSE,
Anybody know how to make that special file..(/dev/midi). Why theren't that file ..in My SuSE 6.2 system. But there are /dev/midi0 /dev/midi1 /dev/midi2 etc. .
After has that file (/dev/midi) what will I do to make My Midi work ?? I have use a sound module (CMEDIA) and add line alias char-major-14 cmpci option cmpci four_ch=1 modem=1
-- Best regards, Syeh mailto:A3@Telkom.net
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-- Michael H. Collins http://www.linuxlink.com Admiral of OpenSourcery Penguinista Navy The Ultimate WM http://www.xfce.org Fun with the Austin Linux group http://www.austinlug.org Need a Real Texas Radio Fix? http://www.texasrebelradio.com -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
On Tue, May 23, 2000 at 09:18:19AM -0800, Rusty wrote:
To cut to the quick of this matter, it seems that the only HTML editors for Linux are the same old sorry text editors, i.e., jed, joe, pico and every masochist's dream vi and all of it's incarnations.
Um, in short, no. Firstly, you're looking in the wrong place. I love TUCOWS, but you wouldn't look for Windows software at a Macintosh repository, would you? The best place to look for GNU/Linux software IMNSHO is Freshmeat. http://freshmeat.net/ Bluefish is a competent editor, as is KWebDev. IBM recently `released' their Windows site management software, but it only runs with their special version of WINE (Bad IBM! Bad, Bad!). There are even lots of useful plugins for The GIMP to help you get off to the right start with site design and image creation (buttons, etc). Oh, yeah. There's always, um, Netscape ;). Just kidding. -- -=|JP|=- "Why, oh, why didn't I take the blue pill?" Jon Pennington | Atipa Linux Solutions -o) jpennington@atipa.com | http://www.atipa.com /\\ Kansas City, MO, USA | 816-241-2641 x121 _\_V 6D04 39E0 CAE9 9ADA 2CA3 2EBE 898A 6C37 CA1E A29C -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
The options for GUI web development include ASWedit, http://www.advasoft.com/ Bluefish is a good up and coming editor, http://bluefish.openoffice.nl/ and a very nice one, CoffeeCup. http://www.coffeecup.com/linux/ Regards W.D.McKinney (Dee) deem@wdm.com "A man has to live with himself, and he should see to it that he always has good company." -Charles Evans Hughes -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
The previous 3 or 4 postings about HTML editors were just the kind of Linux advocacy I like to hear of. Instead of a nasty response to an obviously frustrated user, we get very helpful freshmeat.net search results. I am consistently proud to be a SuSE user, and a member of this mailing list. Stuart p.s. Anyone hear from Lenz lately? On Mon, 22 May 2000 10:02:48 -0800 (AKDT), you wrote:
The options for GUI web development include ASWedit, http://www.advasoft.com/ Bluefish is a good up and coming editor, http://bluefish.openoffice.nl/ and a very nice one, CoffeeCup. http://www.coffeecup.com/linux/
Regards
W.D.McKinney (Dee) deem@wdm.com
"A man has to live with himself, and he should see to it that he always has good company." -Charles Evans Hughes
-- Stuart Hall Cheshire, Connecticut, USA Linux User# 141732 -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
This is why suse is so sucessfull a following , its very rare that you get flamed or RMFMed by some one . You get exelent support , addice and help from newbie to hhead guru , there all lurking here at one time or another. At 06:08 PM 5/22/2000 GMT, Stuart Hall wrote:
The previous 3 or 4 postings about HTML editors were just the kind of Linux advocacy I like to hear of. Instead of a nasty response to an obviously frustrated user, we get very helpful freshmeat.net search results.
I am consistently proud to be a SuSE user, and a member of this mailing list.
Stuart
p.s. Anyone hear from Lenz lately?
On Mon, 22 May 2000 10:02:48 -0800 (AKDT), you wrote:
The options for GUI web development include ASWedit, http://www.advasoft.com/ Bluefish is a good up and coming editor, http://bluefish.openoffice.nl/ and a very nice one, CoffeeCup. http://www.coffeecup.com/linux/
Regards
W.D.McKinney (Dee) deem@wdm.com
"A man has to live with himself, and he should see to it that he always has good company." -Charles Evans Hughes
-- Stuart Hall Cheshire, Connecticut, USA Linux User# 141732
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Stuart Stuart Hall wrote:
p.s. Anyone hear from Lenz lately?
I thought he was living on a yatch in the Caribbean ? (puts Gucci prescription shades on ) -- Richard Sheffield UK -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
Richard wrote:
Stuart
Stuart Hall wrote:
p.s. Anyone hear from Lenz lately?
I thought he was living on a yatch in the Caribbean ?
should be still on his deserved hollidays. Must be back in June. Took a long time off. He deserved it. J. -- =========================================== __ _ Juergen Braukmann juergen.braukmann@gmx.de| -o)/ / (_)__ __ ____ __ Tel: 0201-743648 dk4jb@db0qs.#nrw.deu.eu | /\\ /__/ / _ \/ // /\ \/ / ===========================================_\_v __/_/_//_/\_,_/ /_/\_\ -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
You know, I read all of the posts that were written regarding whether or
I don't want to write HTML in vi. In fact I don't want to ever write anything in vi or TeTex. I enjoy a few creature comforts from time to time and for the time being it seems that Linux does not yet offer enough to compete.
Well, I HATE WYSIWYG HTML editors. The produce rubbish HTML which is impossible to understand. In fact, when you make the mistake of writing something in them, you have to go back by hand and change it all. I use Emacs's html-helper-mode which is good. Not as good as the PageSpinner on the Mac, and probably not as good as Arachnophilia, but it is fine.
Rusty
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I don't want to write HTML in vi. In fact I don't want to ever write anything in vi or TeTex. I enjoy a few creature comforts from time to time and for the time being it seems that Linux does not yet offer enough to compete.
Well, I HATE WYSIWYG HTML editors. The produce rubbish HTML which is impossible to understand. In fact, when you make the mistake of writing
The results might well be a struggle for some HTML rendering software to understand too...
something in them, you have to go back by hand and change it all.
By definition WYSIWYG & HTML are mutually exclusive. The way HTML is rendered depends on the "browser" used to render it. However this does not stop people enguaging on the "fool's errand" of trying to find a way to treat HTML authoring as DTP. -- Mark Evans St. Peter's CofE High School Phone: +44 1392 204764 X109 Fax: +44 1392 204763 -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
Of course you're right. We're way behind M$ in all sorts of application areas. Lots of word processors will save documents to HTML. Most do a crappy job of it. Sun's Star Office writes the best HTML of any word processor I've seen. Two works in progress for HTML editing are Quanta (http://quanta.sourceforge.net/) and BlueFish (http://bluefish.openoffice.nl/) Both are usable. Neither is ready for prime time. On Tue, 23 May 2000, Rusty wrote:
You know, I read all of the posts that were written regarding whether or not Linux was ready for the desktop and ready to compete with Mickeysoft.
Guess what? I don't think so yet. Let me give you a for instance. This morning I was looking for a HTML editor that had a few bells and whistles to make the job easier. I went to the TUCOWS site and examined the offerings. For Windoz, there were so many programs offered that it was hard to make a choice. I then proceeded to the Linux section. I immediately got suspicious when there was not presented a clear cut choice. It seems that HTML editing is not straight forward. You are presented with four (4) categories, each category embellished with a photograph of a good looking young man or woman. What those categories or the photos have to do with the software is beyond me.
To cut to the quick of this matter, it seems that the only HTML editors for Linux are the same old sorry text editors, i.e., jed, joe, pico and every masochist's dream vi and all of it's incarnations.
As much as I despise Mickeysoft for their nasty business practices, their horribly written software and their total lack of support, they are way ahead in the small things that make life easier.
I don't want to write HTML in vi. In fact I don't want to ever write anything in vi or TeTex. I enjoy a few creature comforts from time to time and for the time being it seems that Linux does not yet offer enough to compete.
Rusty
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-- Kenneth R. Kellum -- San Jose State University ===================================== Work like you don't need money, Love like you've never been hurt, and Dance like no one is watching. ===================================== -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
participants (14)
-
A3＠Telkom.net -
calyth＠home.com -
deem＠wdm.com -
donh＠halenet.com.au -
irisinc＠gci.net -
jpennington＠atipa.com -
juergen.braukmann＠ruhr-west.de -
kkellum＠pacbell.net -
mhtexcollins＠austin.rr.com -
mpe＠st-peters-high.devon.sch.uk -
richard＠sheflug.co.uk -
samelash＠ix.netcom.com -
stuarthall＠mailandnews.com -
talacko＠yarn.demon.co.uk