[opensuse] may we get official openSUSE PHPbb forum?
hi all ! I much prefer the PHPbb forum to mailing-lists, so I would like to request building such a centralized forum, as there are many available currently, but no central one. The one I liked most (in design) is: http://opensuse.us/ What do you think about building a new one or declaring some currently existing one as the official? -- -Alexey Eremenko "Technologov" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
I much prefer the PHPbb forum to mailing-lists, so I would like to request building such a centralized forum, as there are many available currently, but no central one. The one I liked most (in design) is: http://opensuse.us/ What do you think about building a new one or declaring some currently existing one as the official?
There are many ways to use a mailling list; you can use it as a web form if you like - http://www.nabble.com/openSUSE-community-f15809.html Forums, etc... just segregate a community; and the people most likely to be able to answer questions [in my 10+ years experience] prefer mailing lists [because they also prefer real mail clients which make using mailing lists almost effortless?]. -- -- Adam Tauno Williams Network & Systems Administrator Consultant - http://www.whitemiceconsulting.com Developer - http://www.opengroupware.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Forums, etc... just segregate a community; and the people most likely to be able to answer questions [in my 10+ years experience] prefer mailing lists [because they also prefer real mail clients which make using mailing lists almost effortless?].
By that token your saying that forums and irc and anything OTHER than a mailing list segregate a community and provide no benefits ? Kind of insulting to myself and other forum creators that have taken the time to create forums/irc channels and more to HELP the community. Not EVERYONE likes to use mailing lists. Mailing lists are many/most of times the official means of communication for projects such as opensuse/fedora/debian, but that doesn't mean forums and irc don't serve any purpose. Many times most of the useful information on the net will be found in forums. http://forums.suselinuxsupport.de 226,995 posts http://www.suseforums.net 171,690 posts (some duplicates of above forum) http://opensuse.us 11,324 posts (And my forum is less that one year old ) http://usalug.org 92,207 posts That's over 1/2 a million searchable posts in 4 forums. Please don't underestimate the usefulness of forums. Crouse Site Admin OpenSUSE.us -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 12 April 2007, Dave Crouse wrote:
Kind of insulting to myself and other forum creators that have taken the time to create forums/irc channels and more to HELP the community.
Just because we disagree about the efficiency and usability of forums does not mean we are insulting you. Grow up. (And yes, that IS an insult). I've always had the opinion that forums were for children and you are convincing me I was correct. -- _____________________________________ John Andersen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
OK, people I understood your points. 1. Some seems to have preference for mailing-lists, some others (including me) have preference for PHPbb Forums. 2. I really liked the idea that we already have a webForum representation of mailing-lists, but the current Forum is really noobish and non-intuitive, which pushes me to the next idea: 3. Is it possible to build it the other way around, with PHPbb forum being the primary interface with mailing-list representation as secondary interface ? In particular: 3. a. does current version of PHPbb supports mailing-lists ? or 3.b. Will it be difficult to add mailing-list support to PHPbb Forum ? -- -Alexey Eremenko "Technologov" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 13 April 2007 04:33:04 am Alexey Eremenko wrote:
OK, people I understood your points.
1. Some seems to have preference for mailing-lists, some others (including me) have preference for PHPbb Forums.
2. I really liked the idea that we already have a webForum representation of mailing-lists, but the current Forum is really noobish and non-intuitive, which pushes me to the next idea:
3. Is it possible to build it the other way around, with PHPbb forum being the primary interface with mailing-list representation as secondary interface ?
In particular: 3. a. does current version of PHPbb supports mailing-lists ? or
No.
3.b. Will it be difficult to add mailing-list support to PHPbb Forum ?
No. http://www.filesite.org/viewforum.php?f=21 That is the forum end of a mailing list. So much easier to read, IMO. In any case, the software I use is M2F: http://www.mail2forum.com/forums/index.php I pretty much set it and forget it. I could also post to the mailing list from the forum, but I choose not to for this case, because the mailing list is restricted. -- k -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Alexey Eremenko wrote:
OK, people I understood your points.
1. Some seems to have preference for mailing-lists, some others (including me) have preference for PHPbb Forums.
2. I really liked the idea that we already have a webForum representation of mailing-lists, but the current Forum is really noobish and non-intuitive, which pushes me to the next idea:
3. Is it possible to build it the other way around, with PHPbb forum being the primary interface with mailing-list representation as secondary interface ?
In particular: 3. a. does current version of PHPbb supports mailing-lists ? or 3.b. Will it be difficult to add mailing-list support to PHPbb Forum ?
The first question you might want to anwswer is: - what additional value do I get for using a forum compared to the mailing list? Currently I don't see any reason to use it in my situation: - I get several hundred emails from mailinglists each day, it only takes a very small time for me to parse them to read the interesting ones. No waiting for a busy server. - Answering emails is also very comfortable for me with the mailclient of my choice. - I have set up my own server including a cyrus imap server, that is (fulltext) indexing the entire mail archive on my server, so any search is blinding fast. Logging in from work on my servers at home is no problem, so I can access my mails from everywhere. So, what would I gain from using a forum? I don't think I would gain anything. What might offer an additional value is an archive of tested solutions to problems, something like a how-to-solve-problems-wiki. That could be refered to on the mailing list to answer problems quickly and decisively. Though it still wouldn't be a forum. -- Sandy List replies only please! Please address PMs to: news-reply2 (@) japantest (.) homelinux (.) com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Sandy Drobic wrote:
What might offer an additional value is an archive of tested solutions to problems, something like a how-to-solve-problems-wiki. That could be refered to on the mailing list to answer problems quickly and decisively. Though it still wouldn't be a forum.
Useful point, I seem to remember both MajorDomo and (I think it was called) Mailman listservers had parallel admin accounts so one could subscribe, unsubscribe, ask for the List FAQ, get a list description etc etc. by sending a mail with the relevant request. I personally have mixed views about forums (annoying things like preparing a response, finding you have been logged out, and having to redo response; and brain dead search options.... oh of course !@!? advertising) However, good moderators can keep a close control on duplicate threads, rambling threads, and bad behaviour, so the information to noise ratio can be better than a mailing lists....
G.T.Smith wrote:
I personally have mixed views about forums (annoying things like preparing a response, finding you have been logged out, and having to redo response; and brain dead search options.... oh of course !@!? advertising)
And having to re-find your place every time you log on. With a mailing list I just delete mail I've already read, and I don't have to dig through it next time. With forums I've used, I have to dig through the whole thread every time to find where I left off. It's a lot more time-consuming. The more traffic a forum gets the less usable it becomes. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Sandy Drobic wrote:
So, what would I gain from using a forum? I don't think I would gain anything.
the problem have been very often quoted: people asks for something. This don't hurt and uses very little work: do it! the real question is: do we need an _official_ openSUSE forum. Time ago most sems to say yes, but nothing was done. as there are many phpbb forum already, may be it's not necessary to add another one... jdd -- http://www.dodin.net Lucien Dodin, inventeur http://lucien.dodin.net/index.shtml -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
jdd wrote:
Sandy Drobic wrote:
So, what would I gain from using a forum? I don't think I would gain anything.
the problem have been very often quoted: people asks for something. This don't hurt and uses very little work: do it!
the real question is: do we need an _official_ openSUSE forum. Time ago most sems to say yes, but nothing was done.
What were the reasons that people wanted a forum? What demand would such a forum serve? I am quite interested in the answer. It might not apply to me personally, but I really would like to know. One possible reason just came to mind: The graphical Interface with lots of buttons could offer some hints for the casual reader of the mailinglist, something like: - how do I effectively ask for help, what should I describe etc. - forum/mailinglist etiquette - FAQ button: what/what not to post, search archive first for problem with link to search archive directly at you finger tips. This would all apply to the casual reader of the list or someone not interested in long-term participation. I would definitely want a button called "UNSUBSCRIBE-HOW_TO" prominently displayed there. (^-^) So, the answer is probably the possibility of better guidance for casual readers of the list. This assumes, of course, that these possibilities are indeed made available. I absolutely despise the uninspired uniform look of most of the phpbb sites. Again, this might not apply to me personally, but I imagine that it will more appealing to people that do not have the yearlong experience with mailinglists. -- Sandy List replies only please! Please address PMs to: news-reply2 (@) japantest (.) homelinux (.) com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 13 April 2007, Sandy Drobic wrote:
The graphical Interface with lots of buttons could offer some hints for the casual reader of the mailinglist, something like:
The graphical interface IS the Problem, not the solution. After forums, next comes a demand for Avitars. Then animated avitars. Pretty soon you load several dozen meg across the net from an overloaded server just to read a one line post. -- _____________________________________ John Andersen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
John Andersen wrote:
On Friday 13 April 2007, Sandy Drobic wrote:
The graphical Interface with lots of buttons could offer some hints for the casual reader of the mailinglist, something like:
The graphical interface IS the Problem, not the solution.
After forums, next comes a demand for Avitars. Then animated avitars. Pretty soon you load several dozen meg across the net from an overloaded server just to read a one line post.
...do I really see foam around your mouth?!? Calm down. Everything has good and bad sides. I for one really am sick and tired of the "unsubscribe" mails to the mailinglist and the often following discussion that Darwin's Evolutional Theory must be flawed in view of all the evidence against it. For guys who post "unsubscribe" mails to the list such a forum might be better than the mailing list. Though I definitely do not suggest to surplant the mailinglist with a web forum. -- Sandy List replies only please! Please address PMs to: news-reply2 (@) japantest (.) homelinux (.) com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Sandy Drobic wrote:
What were the reasons that people wanted a forum?
please, browse the opensuse list archives, this have been discussed often. fact is forums are very popular (personnally I don't like them, but many people do - it's probably better for casual access) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net Lucien Dodin, inventeur http://lucien.dodin.net/index.shtml -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 13 April 2007 12:59, Sandy Drobic wrote:
Again, this might not apply to me personally, but I imagine that it will more appealing to people that do not have the yearlong experience with mailinglists.
That is right to the point. Plus, I recently became aware that most of people I know use webmail, so for them it is familiar interface. They don't know for better. But, I agree with jdd that having yet another forum will not help much. There is many out there. -- Regards, Rajko. http://en.opensuse.org/Portal -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 12 April 2007 10:42, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
I much prefer the PHPbb forum to mailing-lists, so I would like to request building such a centralized forum, as there are many available currently, but no central one. ...
...
Forums, etc... just segregate a community;
How do you figure?
...
Adam Tauno Williams
Randall Schulz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Alexey Eremenko wrote:
hi all !
I much prefer the PHPbb forum to mailing-lists, so I would like to request building such a centralized forum, as there are many available currently, but no central one.
The one I liked most (in design) is: http://opensuse.us/
What do you think about building a new one or declaring some currently existing one as the official?
there have been very long threads on this very subject at least one year ago, without any really satisfactory result (see archives, one year ago). there are many openSUSE forums though probably linked from the wiki jdd -- http://www.dodin.net Lucien Dodin, inventeur http://lucien.dodin.net/index.shtml -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 12 April 2007, jdd wrote:
there have been very long threads on this very subject at least one year ago, without any really satisfactory result
Its been quite satisfactory if you ask me. -- _____________________________________ John Andersen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 4/12/07, Alexey Eremenko
hi all !
I much prefer the PHPbb forum to mailing-lists, so I would like to request building such a centralized forum, as there are many available currently, but no central one.
The one I liked most (in design) is: http://opensuse.us/
What do you think about building a new one or declaring some currently existing one as the official?
Again there are countless threads about this issue. If you werent so in a hurry to post 50 times per second in the mailing list, you would know that there is work going on about this, for example in http://en.opensuse.org/Meetings/Community_Meeting_2007-02-11/transcript and googleing or searching the mailing list archive. And then you wouldnt need to go with infite requests and bugzilla abuse. Marcio --- druid -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Thu, 12 Apr 2007, by al4321@gmail.com:
hi all !
I much prefer the PHPbb forum to mailing-lists, so I would like to request building such a centralized forum, as there are many available currently, but no central one.
The one I liked most (in design) is: http://opensuse.us/
What do you think about building a new one or declaring some currently existing one as the official?
Webforum suck. In Mutt I can go through the 200-300 posts of a day in maybe one hour, delete threads with a few finger moves, reply here and there, maybe save worthwile contributions. There are no distraction in Mutt, I can see as many mails or threads as I like, I can use my own filters, spam is no problem, in short: reading a mailinglist is effortless. If I compare this to the pain of a web based message bulletin, where every visit is another "how stupid is this stuff", I can't even imagine why people would want to use a forum for anything serious. But hey: feel free to devote your own time to YAFF Theo -- Theo v. Werkhoven Registered Linux user# 99872 http://counter.li.org ICBM 52 13 26N , 4 29 47E. + ICQ: 277217131 SUSE 10.2 + Jabber: muadib@jabber.xs4all.nl Kernel 2.6.18 + See headers for PGP/GPG info. Claimer: any email I receive will become my property. Disclaimers do not apply. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Theo v. Werkhoven wrote:
Thu, 12 Apr 2007, by al4321@gmail.com:
hi all !
I much prefer the PHPbb forum to mailing-lists, so I would like to request building such a centralized forum, as there are many available currently, but no central one.
The one I liked most (in design) is: http://opensuse.us/
What do you think about building a new one or declaring some currently existing one as the official?
Webforum suck. In Mutt I can go through the 200-300 posts of a day in maybe one hour, delete threads with a few finger moves, reply here and there, maybe save worthwile contributions. There are no distraction in Mutt, I can see as many mails or threads as I like, I can use my own filters, spam is no problem, in short: reading a mailinglist is effortless. If I compare this to the pain of a web based message bulletin, where every visit is another "how stupid is this stuff", I can't even imagine why people would want to use a forum for anything serious. But hey: feel free to devote your own time to YAFF
Theo
Mutt sucks. But hey, to each and everyone his/her own! /J -- "I don't know who you are or where you've come from, but from now on you'll do as I say, okay?" - Princess Leia -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
* Jan Karjalainen
Mutt sucks. But hey, to each and everyone his/her own!
BUT, it sucks *less*. Check it out :^) -- Patrick Shanahan Registered Linux User #207535 http://wahoo.no-ip.org @ http://counter.li.org HOG # US1244711 Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 OpenSUSE Linux http://en.opensuse.org/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
So, My how-to's on installing suse ftp ver9.1 that has 95,000+ page views are just irrelevant dribble and we should just close down all the forums because a few of you don't see any virtue in them ? Perhaps "Webforum suck." to YOU, but they DO NOT to everyone else. There is room in the community for MORE than just mailing lists. No one said you HAVE to join one you know, but thanks for running us down ....... we appreciate your support soooooo much. Crouse Site Admin OpenSUSE.us -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Dave Crouse wrote:
So, My how-to's on installing suse ftp ver9.1 that has 95,000+ page views are just irrelevant dribble and we should just close down all the forums because a few of you don't see any virtue in them ?
Perhaps "Webforum suck." to YOU, but they DO NOT to everyone else. There is room in the community for MORE than just mailing lists. No one said you HAVE to join one you know, but thanks for running us down ....... we appreciate your support soooooo much.
Crouse Site Admin OpenSUSE.us
There's always the types who say "I read my mail in binary, I don' t need forums!", don't mind them. Too bad that they are that vocal, though... -- "I don't know who you are or where you've come from, but from now on you'll do as I say, okay?" - Princess Leia -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 12 April 2007, Jan Karjalainen wrote:
Dave Crouse wrote:
So, My how-to's on installing suse ftp ver9.1 that has 95,000+ page views are just irrelevant dribble and we should just close down all the forums because a few of you don't see any virtue in them ?
Perhaps "Webforum suck." to YOU, but they DO NOT to everyone else. There is room in the community for MORE than just mailing lists. No one said you HAVE to join one you know, but thanks for running us down ....... we appreciate your support soooooo much.
Crouse Site Admin OpenSUSE.us
There's always the types who say "I read my mail in binary, I don' t need forums!", don't mind them. Too bad that they are that vocal, though...
Its not so much that were vocal, we just know how to run a mail reader and we seldom quote Princess Leia. -- _____________________________________ John Andersen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 12 April 2007, Dave Crouse wrote:
So, My how-to's on installing suse ftp ver9.1 that has 95,000+ page views are just irrelevant dribble and we should just close down all the forums because a few of you don't see any virtue in them ?
Dave: We have a wiki and archives. Those 95000 people found your page with google. They could just as well find the wiki or the archives The fact that the a hammer is the only tool you know tends to cause you to look at every problem as if it were a nail. -- _____________________________________ John Andersen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 4/13/07, John Andersen
On Thursday 12 April 2007, Dave Crouse wrote:
So, My how-to's on installing suse ftp ver9.1 that has 95,000+ page views are just irrelevant dribble and we should just close down all the forums because a few of you don't see any virtue in them ?
Dave: We have a wiki and archives.
Those 95000 people found your page with google. They could just as well find the wiki or the archives
The fact that the a hammer is the only tool you know tends to cause you to look at every problem as if it were a nail.
-- _____________________________________ John Andersen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
How very strange..... lol. Seems I AM the one using more than one medium of communication and yet you accuse ME of only using a hammer roflmao. Seems to me your the one that is small minded making insults at me. Your the one that only views things in black and white, and assumes the mailing list is the only form of communication worthwhile. I never said mailing lists weren't worthwhile, I think all forms are good. However we can get and help new users is a good thing. You are obviously very narrow minded and have forgotten that the last 10 years has actually made the internet more than just text based email and usenet. I suppose I could re-direct www.opensuse.us to a debian site.... would that make you happier ? If I have served no purpose, then it wouldn't matter to you right ? :P I mean, I did register the domain for the next 10 years, and have made it a point to get google to rank it as high as possible. Perhaps Debian could use the boost in traffic :P
Those 95000 people found your page with google. They could just as well find the wiki or the archives
But obviously they didn't did they ? I would say forums are much more search engine friendly than a wiki or any email archives. Do a few searches, which comes up more ...... archived email lists and wiki's or forums ? (Don't bother responding, I ALREADY know the answer). Contrary to what you think, forums aren't made up of idiots and "people that don't know how to run a mail reader". I would venture to say your not on any forums because we would have banned an obnoxious prude like yourself. Crouse Site Admin OpenSuse.us -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Thu, 12 Apr 2007, by al4321@gmail.com:
hi all !
I much prefer the PHPbb forum to mailing-lists, so I would like to request building such a centralized forum, as there are many available currently, but no central one.
Webforum suck. In Mutt I can go through the 200-300 posts of a day in maybe one hour, delete threads with a few finger moves, reply here and there, maybe save worthwile contributions. There are no distraction in Mutt, I can see as many mails or threads as I like, I can use my own filters, spam is no problem, in short: reading a mailinglist is effortless. If I compare this to the pain of a web based message bulletin, where every visit is another "how stupid is this stuff", I can't even imagine why people would want to use a forum for anything serious. But hey: feel free to devote your own time to YAFF
Full ack. -- L. de Braal BraHa Systems NL - Terneuzen T +31 115 649333 F +31 115 649444 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Alexey Eremenko wrote:
hi all !
I much prefer the PHPbb forum to mailing-lists, so I would like to request building such a centralized forum, as there are many available currently, but no central one.
The one I liked most (in design) is: http://opensuse.us/
What do you think about building a new one or declaring some currently existing one as the official?
Official? Why do we need that? Look, there's OpenSuse.us, which I use and like a lot, there's LinuxQuestions.org, there are tons of forms out there. Pick from them, search from them all, but why do we need to declare one official? That's part of what makes Linux grand in the first place. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Thursday 2007-04-12 at 17:13 -0600, Pueblo Native wrote:
What do you think about building a new one or declaring some currently existing one as the official?
Official? Why do we need that? Look, there's OpenSuse.us, which I use and like a lot, there's LinuxQuestions.org, there are tons of forms out there. Pick from them, search from them all, but why do we need to declare one official? That's part of what makes Linux grand in the first place.
Agreed. :-) I prefer a mail list, others prefer a forum. No problem, each person can use what they prefer. One snag with forums is that you have to be online, so it is more expensive for those people with limited or metered internet access. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFGH8WJtTMYHG2NR9URAm+lAJwOjOyTLhftxMdQdOU5pflqDAJ8CACePkLT qS6P/79GY6cCDV0ylmNVSf8= =/0s2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 12 April 2007 10:08:18 am Alexey Eremenko wrote:
hi all !
I much prefer the PHPbb forum to mailing-lists, so I would like to request building such a centralized forum, as there are many available currently, but no central one.
The one I liked most (in design) is: http://opensuse.us/
What do you think about building a new one or declaring some currently existing one as the official?
Though I come to the mailing list often simply because it is somewhat convenient, I also prefer forums. As it is, I've been running one successful (filesite.org) forum for almost five years and been trying to get a few others going. I agree that PHPbb is the best choice, even when compared to Invision, Stentz and the others. I like being able to add attachments and screen shots and I appreciate the threading capabilities. Also the ability to segregate items by subject works really well. In addition, the smilies, avatars and signatures are very nice for community building. HOWEVER - the mailing list does have some benefits. There seem to be a large community of SUSE geeks here who have some good information. I've yet to have an issue finding an answer here in the short time I've been asking my newbie questions. If you still want a forum, there are many to choose from. I frequent linuxquestions.org, which is more general but has a thriving SUSE section. I also have used http://forums.suselinuxsupport.de/ and a few of the other 2,650,000 google hits for SUSE forums. Enjoy!! -- kai www.perfectreign.com || www.4thedadz.com www.filesite.org || www.donutmonster.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 12 April 2007, Kai Ponte wrote:
What do you think about building a new one or declaring some currently existing one as the official?
Though I come to the mailing list often simply because it is somewhat convenient, I also prefer forums.
I on the other hand loath them. Why would I want to wait for response time each time I click on a post. My email is here waiting for me when I get to the computer. Why should I wait for the computer to suck down several thousand bytes just to find out that it was a "me too" post. Forums are for children. -- _____________________________________ John Andersen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
John Andersen wrote:
O I on the other hand loath them. Why would I want to wait for response time each time I click on a post.
My email is here waiting for me when I get to the computer. Why should I wait for the computer to suck down several thousand bytes just to find out that it was a "me too" post.
Forums are for children.
Why? Just because you have to wait a little bit. Isn't it more "childish" to demand an answer right then and there on your terms rather than wait patiently? I use both, and I think that if we all went to one forum or one mailing list, it would get rather crowded rather quickly, not to mention a very dull world indeed. Could we spare the insults and just use what works? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 13 April 2007, Pueblo Native wrote:
Why? Just because you have to wait a little bit. Isn't it more "childish" to demand an answer right then and there on your terms rather than wait patiently?
Why should I wait patiently? Give me one good reason. Just One! You call it childish for refusing to wait 1 or two seconds between every message for a slow overloaded server to respond, and suggest I just shut up, sit down, and wait patiently at the keyboard for the arrival of a screen of thousands and thousands of bytes complete with avatars and icons when all I want to do is read the next message in a thread? In kmail, or any competent email package, I can zip through entire threads, or flush them at will. I can automatically apply highlights and watches to specific posters and just as well plonk others. I can completely read threads without waiting for a 2 second response time between messages, and its all in my machine when I sit down at the keyboard WAITING FOR ME, instead of ME WAITING FOR IT. -- _____________________________________ John Andersen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
John Andersen wrote:
On Friday 13 April 2007, Pueblo Native wrote:
Why? Just because you have to wait a little bit. Isn't it more "childish" to demand an answer right then and there on your terms rather than wait patiently?
Why should I wait patiently? Give me one good reason. Just One!
You call it childish for refusing to wait 1 or two seconds between every message for a slow overloaded server to respond, and suggest I just shut up, sit down, and wait patiently at the keyboard for the arrival of a screen of thousands and thousands of bytes complete with avatars and icons when all I want to do is read the next message in a thread?
No, the childish part is demanding to be provided an answer the way you want it in the form you want it. And you're calling forums childish? Take a suggestion from that Yes song and check yourself. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Forums are more user-friendly, which is the point of community communication system. We need easier ways for community to communicate between ourselves. PHPbb-like Forum (as primary interface) + mailing-list that mirrors the forum as a secondary interface - would be best. -- -Alexey Eremenko "Technologov" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday 14 April 2007, Alexey Eremenko wrote:
Forums are more user-friendly,
In *your* opinion - I find them frustrating and impossibly obtuse.
PHPbb-like Forum (as primary interface) + mailing-list that mirrors the forum as a secondary interface - would be best.
No, what would be best is a variety of resources which everyone can access as they choose. As indeed has already been noted. Dylan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 13 April 2007, Alexey Eremenko wrote:
Forums are more user-friendly, which is the point of community communication system. We need easier ways for community to communicate between ourselves.
Forums are NOT user friendly. No way would a user friendly system: 1) make me click and wait for a remote server every message/thread 2) make me scroll through the entire thread just to get to the last page 3) make it impossible to automatically filter/flag certain topics, 4) make it impossible to filter/flag certain posters 5) make it impossible to Create local archives of key posts 6) allow every user to push huge avatars in my face 7) make me sign in 8) restrict me to being ON Line when I read 9) make me download thousands of bytes just to find a one-line reply 10) Click and wait and wait and wait every time I want to reply The point of a "community communication system" (what ever the hell that is) is to make communication efficient and fast, and widely available. Forums fail on all counts. When was the last time you successfully read a form in a text based mail reader. Mailing lists are as easy as it gets. The archives are searchable, google-able, and light weight. You pop your mail to your laptop and read and answer it while on the plane, subway or what ever. If you want a Forum, subscribe with Gmail. All the slowness you crave with a browser based user interface that you can't seem to live without. Statements like "Forums are more user-friendly" with out offering a single shred of evidence in support just don't cut it. -- _____________________________________ John Andersen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 13 April 2007 18:44, Alexey Eremenko wrote:
Forums are more user-friendly,
Alexey, User friendlyness is just phrase without meaning if you don't tell to what case it applies. Web forums are more user friendly for new users that want to browse them like they do on the web, but for loads of mails every day, the reader will spent quite some time looking in the screen waiting for browser to download new page with messages. For few messages it is irelevant, but for one hundred and more it adds up. For instance if web page is created in 2 seconds, for this list today I would have to wait 300 seconds just for browser to create it. There is another problem, forums without moderators are doomed to be spam collections, so there has to be few volunteers as moderators round the clock. Do we have them? -- Regards, Rajko. http://en.opensuse.org/Portal -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Alexey Eremenko wrote:
Forums are more user-friendly, which is the point of community communication system. We need easier ways for community to communicate between ourselves.
That's just about as wrong and idiotic as blindly assigning maturity levels to those who don't use your form of communication. It's about which mode of communication is user-friendly for a specific user, namely you. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Forums are more user-friendly, which is the point of community communication system. We need easier ways for community to communicate between ourselves.
We need to stop thinking you know better and that nobody has ever thought of that before. There wasnt a consensus with the current forums about having a common forum or so, so currently there are a handful of "unofficial forums". What a forum needs is to be a good forum, and fullfil the needs of those who use forum. Its silly and time-wasting to try to convince forum fans that lists are better and to convince as well list fans that forums are better. This makes the situation improve zero. So dont have a dumb thought that there is going to be a consensus. Usually in lots of projects there are both... That said, the situation was already discussed to death. Let the people involved with forums do what they want, specially Alexey, who really think he knows better, and just need to distribute orders to other people. Check the threads in http://lists.opensuse.org or check information in current big forums, which you should be able to fin in opensuse wiki, in Communicate section. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 13 April 2007 01:43:49 am John Andersen wrote:
On Thursday 12 April 2007, Kai Ponte wrote:
What do you think about building a new one or declaring some currently existing one as the official?
Though I come to the mailing list often simply because it is somewhat convenient, I also prefer forums.
I on the other hand loath them. Why would I want to wait for response time each time I click on a post.
Is there a difference between that and email?
My email is here waiting for me when I get to the computer. Why should I wait for the computer to suck down several thousand bytes just to find out that it was a "me too" post.
Um, that's what all local email does. In fact, I spend most of my time deleting the 50 or so post which aren't interesting/relevant. With forums, I just ignore them.
Forums are for children.
That may be, though I've not seen many children on forums. I stick around adults. -- kai Free Compean and Ramos http://www.grassfire.org/142/petition.asp http://www.perfectreign.com/?q=node/46 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Kai Ponte wrote:
Um, that's what all local email does. In fact, I spend most of my time deleting the 50 or so post which aren't interesting/relevant. With forums, I just ignore them.
Then you might want to try a news reader, at nntp://news.gmane.org/gmane.linux.suse.opensuse.user Seamonkey, Thunderbird, and others have quite good capabilites. Proper threading, kill files, mark remaining articles as read with one touch; everything is there to scan hundreds of articles in a few minutes. Furthermore every news reader can differentiates between followup (reply to group) and reply to author, thus making the dreaded Reply-To discussion mood. (Be careful to set the news reader configuration that you see only unread messages by default.) Best of both worlds. News readers were optimized long time ago to be able to handle MANY articles in MANY newsgroups. Without them, I wouldn't be able to handle the several thousands of messages that I scan on a daily basis. Try to do that in a forum. Joachim -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Joachim Schrod Email: jschrod@acm.org Roedermark, Germany -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 13 April 2007 01:05:54 pm Joachim Schrod wrote:
Kai Ponte wrote:
Um, that's what all local email does. In fact, I spend most of my time deleting the 50 or so post which aren't interesting/relevant. With forums, I just ignore them.
Then you might want to try a news reader, at nntp://news.gmane.org/gmane.linux.suse.opensuse.user Seamonkey, Thunderbird, and others have quite good capabilites.
Oh, I know. I've been using XNews, 40-Tude Dialog, KNode, Pan and others for awhile. I honestly can't stand Netscape and the various derivatives - Seamonkey/Mozilla. I have thunderbird loaded but more appreciate separating my news and nntp readers. I've been on the black slimepit of Usenet for some time now: http://tinyurl.com/2m9fzz http://tinyurl.com/33am95 http://tinyurl.com/2k65ns Those three urls show some of the 5,000 Usenet posts I've made over the recent years. Heck - I'm writing an NNTP binary download program: http://www.donutmonster.com It should be ready by sometime in 2010. :P As it is, I've even run 40-Tude under SUSE: http://www.perfectreign.com/stuff/40tude_linux.jpg
Proper threading, kill files, mark remaining articles as read with one touch; everything is there to scan hundreds of articles in a few minutes. Furthermore every news reader can differentiates between followup (reply to group) and reply to author, thus making the dreaded Reply-To discussion mood. (Be careful to set the news reader configuration that you see only unread messages by default.)
Well, KMail does most of that and allows reply to List for lists such as this. I still prefer forums for their simplicity. I stand behind PHPbb as the best out there for raw forum horsepower.
Best of both worlds. News readers were optimized long time ago to be able to handle MANY articles in MANY newsgroups. Without them, I wouldn't be able to handle the several thousands of messages that I scan on a daily basis. Try to do that in a forum.
I don't - I only read the forum sections I'm interested in. -- kai Free Compean and Ramos http://www.grassfire.org/142/petition.asp http://www.perfectreign.com/?q=node/46 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
participants (20)
-
Adam Tauno Williams -
Alexey Eremenko -
Carlos E. R. -
Dave Crouse -
David Brodbeck -
Druid -
Dylan -
G.T.Smith -
Jan Karjalainen -
jdd -
Joachim Schrod -
John Andersen -
Kai Ponte -
Leen de Braal -
Patrick Shanahan -
Pueblo Native -
Rajko M. -
Randall R Schulz -
Sandy Drobic -
Theo v. Werkhoven