[opensuse] Early adopters bloodied by Ubuntu's Karmic Koala
Hi Folks, Found in the news: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/03/karmic_koala_frustration/ Let's hope that 11.2 has a happier prognosis! Regards, Lew -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 03 November 2009 04:08:31 pm Lew Wolfgang wrote:
Hi Folks,
Found in the news:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/03/karmic_koala_frustration/
Let's hope that 11.2 has a happier prognosis!
Regards, Lew
You mean, similar to many peoples experience with early adoption of 11.1 - Iost not one, but two hard drives due to low level corruption. I left to try other distributions, including Kubuntu, Knoppix, and Mandriva. Settled on Mandriva until it became painfully apparent that their repositories became hopelessly divergent from one to the other. I'm back with OpenSuSE, which seems to be a bit more stable. And the fact that, by following the dev blogs, I became aware that the release cycle was being extended to every 9 months rather than every 6 months. I'm "hoping" that 11.2 will be more stable and polished, otherwise it's back to hunting for another distro - and I've been using SuSE since 7.1 (2.4 kernel). I feared this when Novell bought out SuSE, pushing the Gnome desktop over KDE despite repeated angst against this and other advents made me worry. Let's hope the quality that has been a hallmark of SuSE returns (and no I don't expect perfection, just an OS that won't destroy hard drives and fail at the most inopportune times). YMMV With fingers crossed, Curtis. -- BEWARE! Spammers will be shot, survivors will be shot again! Those throw objects at the alligators will be asked to retrieve them! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday November 3 2009, Curtis Rey wrote:
...
You mean, similar to many peoples experience with early adoption of 11.1 - Iost not one, but two hard drives due to low level corruption.
How would an OS or its installer do this?
...
Randall Schulz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Randall R Schulz wrote:
On Tuesday November 3 2009, Curtis Rey wrote:
...
You mean, similar to many peoples experience with early adoption of 11.1 - Iost not one, but two hard drives due to low level corruption.
How would an OS or its installer do this?
I don't know if this was Curtis' problem, but I had to redo several full-installs due to a Reiserfs bug in 11.1. I'm not sure if the issue was ever fixed, I switched to XFS. I didn't loose any data except for the just-installed partitions. Regards, Lew -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 04/11/09 11:08, Lew Wolfgang wrote:
Hi Folks,
Found in the news:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/03/karmic_koala_frustration/
Let's hope that 11.2 has a happier prognosis!
Regards, Lew
Subscribe to the opensuse-factory list and look for, read, and respond to the post, Subject: " Feature #308284: Ship openSUSE 11.2", posted by Stephan Kulow earlier today. The future is in your hands. BC -- Never run yourself down - let other people do it for you. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 11/3/2009 7:30 PM, Lew Wolfgang wrote:
Randall R Schulz wrote:
On Tuesday November 3 2009, Curtis Rey wrote:
...
You mean, similar to many peoples experience with early adoption of 11.1 - Iost not one, but two hard drives due to low level corruption.
How would an OS or its installer do this?
I don't know if this was Curtis' problem, but I had to redo several full-installs due to a Reiserfs bug in 11.1. I'm not sure if the issue was ever fixed, I switched to XFS.
Regards, Lew
How much use have you made of XFS Lew, and do you like it for speed? I'm casting around for what I will replace my Reiserfs systems with and I'n not sure which to select right now. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 03 November 2009 07:30:05 pm Lew Wolfgang wrote:
Randall R Schulz wrote:
On Tuesday November 3 2009, Curtis Rey wrote:
...
You mean, similar to many peoples experience with early adoption of 11.1 - Iost not one, but two hard drives due to low level corruption.
How would an OS or its installer do this?
I don't know if this was Curtis' problem, but I had to redo several full-installs due to a Reiserfs bug in 11.1. I'm not sure if the issue was ever fixed, I switched to XFS. I didn't loose any data except for the just-installed partitions.
Regards, Lew
Yep ReiserFS would thrash my drive... horribly! And there seemed to be a some sort of bug in the kernel (suse modified) or perhaps something else that was ancillary to it - After a few updates (noted when I returned to openSuSE) that this wasn't and issue - Frankly, my take was 11.1 was pushed out the door before it was ready. Just MHO! Curtis, -- BEWARE! Spammers will be shot, survivors will be shot again! Those throw objects at the alligators will be asked to retrieve them! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 11/3/2009 4:08 PM, Lew Wolfgang wrote:
Hi Folks,
Found in the news:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/03/karmic_koala_frustration/
Let's hope that 11.2 has a happier prognosis!
Regards, Lew
FTR, two in-place upgrades to Ubuntu and Kubuntu went off without a single hitch for me. It was slicker than snot on a gold tooth! Now in my case, these were done in my test environment which is Vmware, so the issue with proprietary drivers for high-end graphics cards is not an issue. I'm waiting for the final 11.2 to compare to Kubuntu. I still prefer yast. Given just how well Kubuntu works for a regular work station machine, I have a fall back already identified it Opensuse is a bust. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
John Andersen wrote:
How much use have you made of XFS Lew, and do you like it for speed?
I'm casting around for what I will replace my Reiserfs systems with and I'n not sure which to select right now.
I've used it quite a bit. It had the best general characteristics for our usage as measured by various tests. I've got one requirement that calls for writing to disk two fully saturated Gig-E channels. XFS had the best aggregate write performance spooling to two 12-disk RAID-5 arrays, giving about 260-MB/Sec per array with a CPU load average of about 0.3. This is with one computer using one 3Ware RAID controller and 24 1-TB data disks. I've got another requirement that calls for streaming video data to a 36-TB array. Once again, XFS handled the load. I've also been using it for general desktop/laptop usage (except /boot, which is EXT-2). YMMV, of course... Regards, Lew -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, 2009-11-03 at 17:10 -0800, Curtis Rey wrote:
On Tuesday 03 November 2009 04:08:31 pm Lew Wolfgang wrote:
Hi Folks,
Found in the news:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/03/karmic_koala_frustration/
Let's hope that 11.2 has a happier prognosis!
Regards, Lew
You mean, similar to many peoples experience with early adoption of 11.1 - Iost not one, but two hard drives due to low level corruption. I left to try other distributions, including Kubuntu, Knoppix, and Mandriva. Settled on Mandriva until it became painfully apparent that their repositories became hopelessly divergent from one to the other. I'm back with OpenSuSE, which seems to be a bit more stable. And the fact that, by following the dev blogs, I became aware that the release cycle was being extended to every 9 months rather than every 6 months. I'm "hoping" that 11.2 will be more stable and polished, otherwise it's back to hunting for another distro - and I've been using SuSE since 7.1 (2.4 kernel).
I feared this when Novell bought out SuSE, pushing the Gnome desktop over KDE despite repeated angst against this and other advents made me worry. Let's hope the quality that has been a hallmark of SuSE returns (and no I don't expect perfection, just an OS that won't destroy hard drives and fail at the most inopportune times). YMMV
It doesn't matter which desktop you use (I use both), there were definite problems with 11.1, so bad in fact that I turned my laptop over 9.04, with the ability to endure kernel updates without re-compiling video and wireless drivers. I can say only that an early upgrade to 9.10 on one system has sorted itself out, but now I have conflicts with mythtv between my main system (11.1) and it. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
FTR, two in-place upgrades to Ubuntu and Kubuntu went off without a single hitch for me. It was slicker than snot on a gold tooth!
I did the whole Ubuntu/Kubuntu thing on base metal installs, not VMware or VBox. Installation was fine... very slick.. it wasn't until after the install that Ubuntu started to show it's warts. Skype setup for example... a nightmare if you want to use anything other than your default device due to the whole Pulse Audio thing. Other setup and confgurations were weak to useless... like multimonitor setup... I plug in a beamer to the laptop and try to get it configured... it's def possible but a pain. I installed 11.2 on the same laptop... after a few teething problems that were fixed by doing the install from the DVD instead of the KDE Live CD, it's working smooooooooth. Skype just works... plugging in beamers... works.. no hassle. Setup... same as always with openSUSE... hardware all auto identified and configured correctly without me having to do a thing. There are still some bugs with 11.2 that need to be fixed... one that comes to mind is the installer does not find or set up Grub correctly to allow you to boot other Linux installs.. it just ignores them. But it's a known issue... so it'll be fixed (hopefully) C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 04 November 2009 04:55:56 Basil Chupin wrote:
On 04/11/09 11:08, Lew Wolfgang wrote:
Hi Folks,
Found in the news:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/03/karmic_koala_frustration/
Let's hope that 11.2 has a happier prognosis!
Regards, Lew
Subscribe to the opensuse-factory list and look for, read, and respond to the post, Subject: " Feature #308284: Ship openSUSE 11.2", posted by Stephan Kulow earlier today.
The future is in your hands.
Since openSUSE is an open distribution, everybody is encouraged to help increase the quality - not only with reporting bugs but also with fixing them (and with documentation,...). That's what I call the "future is in your hands" ;) Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, Program Manager openSUSE, aj@{novell.com,opensuse.org} Twitter: jaegerandi | Identica: jaegerandi SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126
On Tuesday 03 November 2009 10:16:38 pm Mike McMullin wrote:
You mean, similar to many peoples experience with early adoption of 11.1 - Iost not one, but two hard drives due to low level corruption. I left to try other distributions, including Kubuntu, Knoppix, and Mandriva. Settled on Mandriva until it became painfully apparent that their repositories became hopelessly divergent from one to the other. I'm back with OpenSuSE, which seems to be a bit more stable. And the fact that, by following the dev blogs, I became aware that the release cycle was being extended to every 9 months rather than every 6 months. I'm "hoping" that 11.2 will be more stable and polished, otherwise it's back to hunting for another distro - and I've been using SuSE since 7.1 (2.4 kernel).
I feared this when Novell bought out SuSE, pushing the Gnome desktop over KDE despite repeated angst against this and other advents made me worry. Let's hope the quality that has been a hallmark of SuSE returns (and no I don't expect perfection, just an OS that won't destroy hard drives and fail at the most inopportune times). YMMV
It doesn't matter which desktop you use (I use both), there were definite problems with 11.1, so bad in fact that I turned my laptop over 9.04, with the ability to endure kernel updates without re-compiling video and wireless drivers. I can say only that an early upgrade to 9.10 on one system has sorted itself out, but now I have conflicts with mythtv between my main system (11.1) and it.
Ya, another problem that drove me nuts in 11.1 was the flawed grub installation and setup, which I often wonder wasn't the other reason for a seriously kludged HDD (outside of the ReiserFS problems). I've tried Ubuntu 9.04, but found the config programs unconfortable (gotten a tad spoiled with YaST). I also didn't like having to hunt for the XAuth and other various files to allow me to log into the Root acct. I frustrated me to no end to feel I had to leave a distribution I've used for over a decade and hunt for some alternative - though on the upside I had an opportunity to check out other distributions, and of course dealt with the "grass is always greener" syndrome. Frankly, I'm cautiously optimistic about 11.2! Let's hope that the extra 3 months in the new dev cycle will pay off the way many hope it will <fingers crossed>. Cheers, Curtis. -- BEWARE! Spammers will be shot, survivors will be shot again! Those throw objects at the alligators will be asked to retrieve them! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 03 November 2009 10:23:59 pm Clayton wrote:
I did the whole Ubuntu/Kubuntu thing on base metal installs, not VMware or VBox. Installation was fine... very slick.. it wasn't until after the install that Ubuntu started to show it's warts. Skype setup for example... a nightmare if you want to use anything other than your default device due to the whole Pulse Audio thing.
OMG the pulse audio thing! I mean first there was OSS, then ALSA - and I understand this transition and thought that ALSA was doing OK. But then the pulse audio thing! UGH! What a pain.... and why?!?! I don't get the point of having yet another layer of audio code/protocols. Was/is it a network/streaming issue? I don't know frankly. And not to be to critical about 11.1 - but I usually have to issue a "rcalsasound" restart or reload at least once a session because it just stutters and stalls terribly! It still does so (though not as severly) after disabling the pulse/ALSA settings - no pulse audio for me (which ironically worked quite well in Mandrivea 2009.0 and 2k.1 versions, go figure). The other issue that I missed in the other distro's was the Packman repos. Though Gkrellm setup in Mandriva was more complete (complete rpm of the plugins and skins, which I grabbed and installed on 11.1). Nice to hear that the setup went better this time, although the grub thing still bothers me. I hate having to go back and forth between SuSE and XP (for the games) after an kludgy GRUB install. Cheers, Curtis. -- BEWARE! Spammers will be shot, survivors will be shot again! Those throw objects at the alligators will be asked to retrieve them! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
OMG the pulse audio thing! I mean first there was OSS, then ALSA - and I understand this transition and thought that ALSA was doing OK. But then the pulse audio thing! UGH! What a pain.... and why?!?! I don't get the point of having yet another layer of audio code/protocols.
Dunno. I suppose eventually it will work... but for now it's a royal pain if you want aything else other than "Default". It is configurable but... only when the device is actually accessing the pa backed. Otherwise.. nope. So like for Skype, you have to initiate a test call, switch over to the PA setup tool and hope that you catch each event at the right time to reset which device it's directed to. It took me about 40 minutes to set up my USB headset and get it actually working with Skype on Ubuntu 9.10... switched over to 11.2RC2, with the sam scenario and Skype worked with no futzing.. but 11.2RC2 doesn't seem to be using Pulse... which in my case is a MAJOR improvement. Overall, I'm very pleased with the 11.2RC2 install.. and am already confident enough with it that I'm using it as my only OS on my netbook... and am using it on the road where it's critical that it works right for me for my presentation at the OOoCon2009... . In fact, it's generally so good that I'm already recommending it to some of my friends at the RC2 stage (ones who can deal with the minor quirks of an RC). C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, 2009-11-03 at 16:08 -0800, Lew Wolfgang wrote:
Hi Folks, Found in the news: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/03/karmic_koala_frustration/
I'm not shilling Ubuntu [I don't use it] but statements like "Only around 10 per cent of those upgrading or installing reported a completely flawless experience." are meaningless. Web polls / forum posts are a self-selecting demographic. If something works perfectly for me I don't [usually] post or comment anything, so negative results are always inflated in these kinds of things. That is also my mailing lists always seems to have such a negative bias - Beagle, openSUSE, GNOME, Evolution, all work perfectly for me - so people with my experience will be 'underrepresented'. Journalists *know* exactly what a self-selected demographic is, and they *know* web polls, etc... are garbage. A decent journalist doesn't taint himself by referencing such foolishness. Sorry for the psuedo-rant, but this kind of thing is rampant in tech-blogs and trade-rags, these sites should adopt a grown-up, rather than inflammatory, editorial policy.
Let's hope that 11.2 has a happier prognosis!
-- openSUSE http://www.opensuse.org/en/ Linux for human beings who need to get things done. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, 2009-11-03 at 17:10 -0800, Curtis Rey wrote:
On Tuesday 03 November 2009 04:08:31 pm Lew Wolfgang wrote:
Hi Folks, Found in the news: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/03/karmic_koala_frustration/ Let's hope that 11.2 has a happier prognosis! Regards, Lew You mean, similar to many peoples experience with early adoption of 11.1 - Iost not one, but two hard drives due to low level corruption.
I installed 11.1 right away when it came out. Worked great, I had no significant issues.
I feared this when Novell bought out SuSE, pushing the Gnome desktop
openSUSE GNOME has been an excellent and productive desktop environment for me.
despite repeated angst against this and other advents made me worry. Let's hope the quality that has been a hallmark of SuSE returns
Using since SuSE 9.3; I don't think the quality ever left. Although early versions of zypper / rcd were really slow and flaky - that didn't stop me from getting *work done* with the excellent suite of applications. -- OpenGroupware developer: awilliam@whitemice.org http://whitemiceconsulting.blogspot.com/ OpenGroupare & Cyrus IMAPd documenation @ http://docs.opengroupware.org/Members/whitemice/wmogag/file_view -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, 2009-11-03 at 21:28 -0800, John Andersen wrote:
On 11/3/2009 7:30 PM, Lew Wolfgang wrote:
Randall R Schulz wrote:
On Tuesday November 3 2009, Curtis Rey wrote:
... You mean, similar to many peoples experience with early adoption of 11.1 - Iost not one, but two hard drives due to low level corruption. How would an OS or its installer do this I don't know if this was Curtis' problem, but I had to redo several full-installs due to a Reiserfs bug in 11.1. I'm not sure if the issue was ever fixed, I switched to XFS. How much use have you made of XFS Lew, and do you like it for speed?
We used XFS in production on both servers and workstations for years. We never had a non-hardware-related filesystem issue. Performance was very good.
I'm casting around for what I will replace my Reiserfs systems with and I'n not sure which to select right now.
ext3? With the introduction of dir_index support much of the real-world advantage of XFS went out the window. Only certain types of systems really benefit from extents and the other advantages. -- OpenGroupware developer: awilliam@whitemice.org http://whitemiceconsulting.blogspot.com/ OpenGroupare & Cyrus IMAPd documenation @ http://docs.opengroupware.org/Members/whitemice/wmogag/file_view -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Wed, 2009-11-04 at 07:23 +0100, Clayton wrote:
I did the whole Ubuntu/Kubuntu thing on base metal installs, not VMware or VBox. Installation was fine... very slick.. it wasn't until after the install that Ubuntu started to show it's warts. Skype setup for example... a nightmare if you want to use anything other than your default device due to the whole Pulse Audio thing. Other setup and confgurations were weak to useless... like multimonitor setup... I plug in a beamer to the laptop and try to get it configured... it's def possible but a pain.
This has been my experience with Ubuntu. When I try it I always think "why don't they port YaST?" openSUSE is still the only distro with a comprehensive set of administrative tools.
I installed 11.2 on the same laptop... after a few teething problems that were fixed by doing the install from the DVD instead of the KDE Live CD, it's working smooooooooth. Skype just works... plugging in beamers... works.. no hassle. Setup... same as always with openSUSE... hardware all auto identified and configured correctly without me having to do a thing.
Sweet! -- OpenGroupware developer: awilliam@whitemice.org http://whitemiceconsulting.blogspot.com/ OpenGroupare & Cyrus IMAPd documenation @ http://docs.opengroupware.org/Members/whitemice/wmogag/file_view -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Am Mittwoch, 4. November 2009 07:23:59 schrieb Clayton:
There are still some bugs with 11.2 that need to be fixed... one that comes to mind is the installer does not find or set up Grub correctly to allow you to boot other Linux installs.. it just ignores them. But it's a known issue... so it'll be fixed (hopefully)
This seems to be not true as a general statement. Apparently it works quite well in most cases, if people did not set-up some very special set-up. In that case they should also be able resolve the issues. It's a bug nevertheless, but if it's only a corner case it should not prevent 11.2 from shipping, because then it will never ever ship. Sven -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
There are still some bugs with 11.2 that need to be fixed... one that comes to mind is the installer does not find or set up Grub correctly to allow you to boot other Linux installs.. it just ignores them. But it's a known issue... so it'll be fixed (hopefully)
This seems to be not true as a general statement. Apparently it works quite well in most cases, if people did not set-up some very special set-up. In that case they should also be able resolve the issues. It's a bug nevertheless, but if it's only a corner case it should not prevent 11.2 from shipping, because then it will never ever ship.
wouldn't call the setup I have all that special... it's pretty basic. A single drive... a simple partion scheme... a couple 15Gb partitions I use for root, a swap, and a home partition. Nothing unusal or special at all. If I install Ubuntu, and then 11.1, Grub finds and cofigures the menu.lst with both OSes,.... then I install 11.2 and Grub only knows 11.2... nothing else. I've re-done the installs over and over.. different combinations, and it's consistent.. 11.2 installs very smoothly, but it doesn't know the other installed OSes. C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 04.11.2009, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
We used XFS in production on both servers and workstations for years. We never had a non-hardware-related filesystem issue. Performance was very good.
YES! I have experienced the same and can second that. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Am Mittwoch, 4. November 2009 15:23:34 schrieb Clayton:
This seems to be not true as a general statement. Apparently it works quite well in most cases, if people did not set-up some very special set-up. In that case they should also be able resolve the issues. It's a bug nevertheless, but if it's only a corner case it should not prevent 11.2 from shipping, because then it will never ever ship.
wouldn't call the setup I have all that special... it's pretty basic. A single drive... a simple partion scheme... a couple 15Gb partitions I use for root, a swap, and a home partition. Nothing unusal or special at all. If I install Ubuntu, and then 11.1, Grub finds and cofigures the menu.lst with both OSes,.... then I install 11.2 and Grub only knows 11.2... nothing else. I've re-done the installs over and over.. different combinations, and it's consistent.. 11.2 installs very smoothly, but it doesn't know the other installed OSes.
If you have a way to reproduce the problem more than once, please add the description and logs to the bug report. Sven -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
If you have a way to reproduce the problem more than once, please add the description and logs to the bug report.
Sure... what logs though? Reproducing is dead easy... I just install Ubuntu or RedHat or whatever Linux distro, and then install 11.2RC2 in a second partition (all partitions already exist). Thsi si not limited to just my netbook... my main desktop/server has the same basic config... a couple 15GB partitions for root of each installed Linux, a common swap partition, and a common home partition. Also note that this is not unique to my setup.. many other people have noticed the same behavior when they have more than one Linux distro installed before installing 11.2RC2. This is all assuming 11.2RC2 is the last distro installed during an install session and that the end user wants to use the openSUSE Grub. If you install 11.2 and then Ubuntu (or RedHat, Mandriva or whatever), you will get a full, correctly configured Grub menu supplied by the Ubuntu installer (or by whatever distro you installed). Also, posting any logs from experiments will probably have to wait until at least sometime next week since I am at OOoCon2009 right now.... unless someone could name some relevant log file that my be hiding on my netbook (which currently has Ubuntu 9.10 and oS11.2RC2 but can only boot to 11.2). C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Clayton wrote:
If you have a way to reproduce the problem more than once, please add the description and logs to the bug report.
Sure... what logs though?
Probably the yast2 logs - use save_y2logs. /Per -- Per Jessen, Zürich (8.8°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 11/4/2009 2:13 AM, Curtis Rey wrote:
OMG the pulse audio thing! I mean first there was OSS, then ALSA - and I understand this transition and thought that ALSA was doing OK. But then the pulse audio thing! UGH! What a pain.... and why?!?!
Same reason as the kde sound daemon ARTS or the Gnome daemon ESD. Multiple applications need to use the sound card at once, and not all sound cards support multiple simultaneous inputs from multiple programs. Because of the history on Linux, dozens of programs are written to support specific sound system APIs, and rewrites often come late or never. So you launch something an get the dread "sound system is in use by another application" message. Once you decide to hook all the old sound system APIs into a multiplexing daemon the ability to stream to another box presents itself as a cheap and easy target of opportunity. Its not that anyone set out to do that, its just that it gets really easy, like running an X server makes displays from multiple systems easy. Pulse Audio is an attempt at a generic sound daemon, not tied to KDE or Gnome or anything else. Read up on it Curtis, it has merit, its just that it is fairly new at this point in time. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PulseAudio We may never be free of the OSS ALSA ESD ARTS sound wars, but we can paper over them and let the users get on with using the computer without constantly fighting the war. I haven't had any problems with Pulse Audio, except for an occasional need to restart it after an upgrade. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 04 November 2009 11:39:09 am John Andersen wrote:
On 11/4/2009 2:13 AM, Curtis Rey wrote:
OMG the pulse audio thing! I mean first there was OSS, then ALSA - and I understand this transition and thought that ALSA was doing OK. But then the pulse audio thing! UGH! What a pain.... and why?!?!
Same reason as the kde sound daemon ARTS or the Gnome daemon ESD.
Multiple applications need to use the sound card at once, and not all sound cards support multiple simultaneous inputs from multiple programs.
Because of the history on Linux, dozens of programs are written to support specific sound system APIs, and rewrites often come late or never.
So you launch something an get the dread "sound system is in use by another application" message.
Once you decide to hook all the old sound system APIs into a multiplexing daemon the ability to stream to another box presents itself as a cheap and easy target of opportunity. Its not that anyone set out to do that, its just that it gets really easy, like running an X server makes displays from multiple systems easy.
Pulse Audio is an attempt at a generic sound daemon, not tied to KDE or Gnome or anything else.
Read up on it Curtis, it has merit, its just that it is fairly new at this point in time. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PulseAudio
We may never be free of the OSS ALSA ESD ARTS sound wars, but we can paper over them and let the users get on with using the computer without constantly fighting the war.
I haven't had any problems with Pulse Audio, except for an occasional need to restart it after an upgrade.
Thanks John. Makes more sense now... This has been an area of considerable angst to me. I do a fair amount of audio engineering at home and various venues... I have to resort to using ProTools in Mac (not a problem overall - but expensive) or Cubase in XP (needs a pristine environment - e.g. that system only does Cubase and Audio... not network or anything else). I find some rather nice software for audio work.... Ardour ain't half bad IMHO. But the audio back ends have decidedly been the limiting factor. Now that JACK audio is stable I tend to set that up and have been experimenting for some time now.... Pulse worked very well in the Mandriva I was using, much to my surprise, considering my previous experience with it... A common/generic audio engine and prehaps a high-end/low latency engine are all that's needed. Jack does a fairly good job...Haven't seen an X overflow/fallover for a while now. Hears hoping that 11.2 will lay some of these issue to rest. Cheers and TY again. Curtis. -- BEWARE! Spammers will be shot, survivors will be shot again! Those throw objects at the alligators will be asked to retrieve them! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday, 2009-11-04 at 06:57 -0500, Adam Tauno Williams wrote: ...
We used XFS in production on both servers and workstations for years. We never had a non-hardware-related filesystem issue. Performance was very good.
I have experienced software bugs on xfs. One crashed the system, other made xfs_repair abort and fail the repair. Both have taken very long times to be repaired. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkryAvkACgkQtTMYHG2NR9VCdQCfWZveC5NVqFfUuM9ONcPfiH2x RSsAnRqnMuNrm9f/VwBXoxW96xwP03WA =FDtK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Am Mittwoch, 4. November 2009 17:38:52 schrieb Clayton:
If you have a way to reproduce the problem more than once, please add the description and logs to the bug report.
Sure... what logs though? Reproducing is dead easy... I just install Ubuntu or RedHat or whatever Linux distro, and then install 11.2RC2 in a second partition (all partitions already exist). Thsi si not limited to just my netbook... my main desktop/server has the same basic config... a couple 15GB partitions for root of each installed Linux, a common swap partition, and a common home partition. Also note that this is not unique to my setup.. many other people have noticed the same behavior when they have more than one Linux distro installed before installing 11.2RC2. This is all assuming 11.2RC2 is the last distro installed during an install session and that the end user wants to use the openSUSE Grub. If you install 11.2 and then Ubuntu (or RedHat, Mandriva or whatever), you will get a full, correctly configured Grub menu supplied by the Ubuntu installer (or by whatever distro you installed).
Also, posting any logs from experiments will probably have to wait until at least sometime next week since I am at OOoCon2009 right now.... unless someone could name some relevant log file that my be hiding on my netbook (which currently has Ubuntu 9.10 and oS11.2RC2 but can only boot to 11.2).
Please add yourself to bug https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=548993 I'll add your text but I won't be able to answer any questions regarding ist, so it would be important that you can do that. Sven -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
participants (13)
-
Adam Tauno Williams -
Andreas Jaeger -
Basil Chupin -
Carlos E. R. -
Clayton -
Curtis Rey -
Heinz Diehl -
John Andersen -
Lew Wolfgang -
Mike McMullin -
Per Jessen -
Randall R Schulz -
Sven Burmeister