[opensuse] checking on a sending mail problem with Thunderbird

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Carlos E. R.

18 Jan 2016 18 Jan '16

00:08

Hi, Sometimes when I try to reply or send an email to this list with Thunderbird, I get a response of temporary server problem, I understand meaning at my ISP, telefonica.net. A copy of the email appears at the "Sent" folder, but it was never sent and never arrives. I wonder why Thunderbird, which reports an error, behaves as if it was sent. It should abort and ask to retry or not. What I do as a bypass is copy the email on the sent folder to the draft folder of another account (gmail), edit and send. All this happens both in Linux (Os.Leap) and Windows 10 - I'm now trying in Windows: so it may be a Thunderbird problem. What I haven't tested yet is sending on another system via postfix, and see what error I'm get from the ISP, if any. -- Saludos/Cheers, Carlos E.R. (Minas-Morgul - W10) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

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Carlos E. R.

18 Jan 18 Jan

00:09

On 18/01/2016 1:08, Carlos E. R. wrote: Send worked. Testing reply. -- Saludos/Cheers, Carlos E.R. (Minas-Morgul - W10) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

00:11

On 18/01/2016 1:09, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On 18/01/2016 1:08, Carlos E. R. wrote:

Send worked. Testing reply.

Crumbs. Now it doesn't want to fail. Other times it failed four attempts in a row :-( -- Saludos/Cheers, Carlos E.R. (Minas-Morgul - W10) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

00:19

On 18/01/2016 1:11, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On 18/01/2016 1:09, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On 18/01/2016 1:08, Carlos E. R. wrote:

Send worked. Testing reply.

Crumbs. Now it doesn't want to fail. Other times it failed four attempts in a row :-(

Got a failure on another thread. Why not in this one? Is the problem related to the threads? A sending filter on my ISP? -- Saludos/Cheers, Carlos E.R. (Minas-Morgul - W10) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Per Jessen

07:22

Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

On 18/01/2016 1:11, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On 18/01/2016 1:09, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On 18/01/2016 1:08, Carlos E. R. wrote:

Send worked. Testing reply.

Crumbs. Now it doesn't want to fail. Other times it failed four attempts in a row :-(

Got a failure on another thread. Why not in this one? Is the problem related to the threads? A sending filter on my ISP?

Why don't you send it via postfix, then you can debug it properly. I think you would just need the default openSUSE postfix config, with relay=yourisp. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (-8.6°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - virtual servers, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

14:13

On 2016-01-18 08:22, Per Jessen wrote:

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Why don't you send it via postfix, then you can debug it properly. I think you would just need the default openSUSE postfix config, with relay=yourisp.

Yes, that's what I'm doing now :-) I have to do it on another machine for the moment. The thing is that it apparently (ie, so far) only fails when I reply to a post from somebody else, not when I reply to myself. Or it may be an intermittent problem. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

John Andersen

01:28

On 01/17/2016 04:08 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

Hi,

Sometimes when I try to reply or send an email to this list with Thunderbird, I get a response of temporary server problem, I understand meaning at my ISP, telefonica.net.

A copy of the email appears at the "Sent" folder, but it was never sent and never arrives. I wonder why Thunderbird, which reports an error, behaves as if it was sent. It should abort and ask to retry or not.

What I do as a bypass is copy the email on the sent folder to the draft folder of another account (gmail), edit and send.

All this happens both in Linux (Os.Leap) and Windows 10 - I'm now trying in Windows: so it may be a Thunderbird problem. What I haven't tested yet is sending on another system via postfix, and see what error I'm get from the ISP, if any.

Shouldn't they go to outbox if they fail? I will occasionally see a message sitting in outbox but only when my internet connection is going wonky. -- After all is said and done, more is said than done. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

14:18

On 2016-01-18 02:28, John Andersen wrote:

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On 01/17/2016 04:08 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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Shouldn't they go to outbox if they fail? I will occasionally see a message sitting in outbox but only when my internet connection is going wonky.

Yes. Either fail, do nothing, ask for "shall I retry?", or put it in the outbox for trying again, because it is a temporary problem. But maybe the mail server is not responding with a standard error that the client can understand. On this computer it appears to work today. I think that Thunderbird can enable some kind of log system for debugging :-? -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

John Andersen

19:01

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 01/18/2016 06:18 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On 2016-01-18 02:28, John Andersen wrote:

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On 01/17/2016 04:08 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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Shouldn't they go to outbox if they fail? I will occasionally see a message sitting in outbox but only when my internet connection is going wonky.

Yes. Either fail, do nothing, ask for "shall I retry?", or put it in the outbox for trying again, because it is a temporary problem.

But maybe the mail server is not responding with a standard error that the client can understand. On this computer it appears to work today.

I think that Thunderbird can enable some kind of log system for debugging :-?

Tools / error console - -- After all is said and done, more is said than done. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iEYEARECAAYFAladNngACgkQv7M3G5+2DLJXUQCgjewC3xnkiobTUed9XqhY3OzP bqcAn1ZhpJ8IvkALeZdP9N4nOCcALH8O =ptEf -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

22:43

On 01/18/2016 08:01 PM, John Andersen wrote:

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On 01/18/2016 06:18 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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I think that Thunderbird can enable some kind of log system for debugging :-?

Tools / error console

Thanks. Testing :-) -- Cheers/Saludos Carlos E. R. (openSUSE Leap 42.1, test at Minas-Anor) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

23:14

On 01/18/2016 11:43 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On 01/18/2016 08:01 PM, John Andersen wrote:

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On 01/18/2016 06:18 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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I think that Thunderbird can enable some kind of log system for debugging :-?

Tools / error console

Thanks. Testing :-)

No errors today, or yet. Just this one on error the console, which doesn't stop things, thus not important: Timestamp: 01/18/2016 11:55:35 PM Error: smtp.telefonica.net : server does not support RFC 5746, see CVE-2009-3555 -- Cheers/Saludos Carlos E. R. (openSUSE Leap 42.1, test at Minas-Anor) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

22 Jan 22 Jan

00:13

On 01/19/2016 12:14 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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Tools / error console

Thanks. Testing :-)

No errors today, or yet.

Just this one on error the console, which doesn't stop things, thus not important:

Timestamp: 01/18/2016 11:55:35 PM Error: smtp.telefonica.net : server does not support RFC 5746, see CVE-2009-3555

One failure now, on another thread. I don't think the error is logged: Timestamp: 01/22/2016 12:19:18 AM Error: The character encoding of the HTML document was not declared. The document will render with garbled text in some browser configurations if the document contains characters from outside the US-ASCII range. The character encoding of the page must be declared in the document or in the transfer protocol. Source File: imap://robin%2Elistas2@imap.telefonica.net:143/fetch%3EUID%3E/INBOX%3E238470 Line: 0 1453419486188 addons.update-checker WARN Update manifest for {972ce4c6-7e08-4474-a285-3208198ce6fd} did not contain an updates property 1453419487220 addons.update-checker WARN Update manifest for thunderbird-hotfix@mozilla.org did not contain an updates property Timestamp: 01/22/2016 01:09:23 AM Error: smtp.telefonica.net : server does not support RFC 5746, see CVE-2009-3555 -- Cheers/Saludos Carlos E. R. (openSUSE Leap 42.1, test at Minas-Anor) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

John Andersen

00:27

On 01/21/2016 04:13 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On 01/19/2016 12:14 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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...
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Tools / error console

Thanks. Testing :-)

No errors today, or yet.

Just this one on error the console, which doesn't stop things, thus not important:

Timestamp: 01/18/2016 11:55:35 PM Error: smtp.telefonica.net : server does not support RFC 5746, see CVE-2009-3555

One failure now, on another thread. I don't think the error is logged:

Timestamp: 01/22/2016 12:19:18 AM Error: The character encoding of the HTML document was not declared. The document will render with garbled text in some browser configurations if the document contains characters from outside the US-ASCII range. The character encoding of the page must be declared in the document or in the transfer protocol. Source File: imap://robin%2Elistas2@imap.telefonica.net:143/fetch%3EUID%3E/INBOX%3E238470 Line: 0

The above are very common with Tbird, and they have to do with Tbird's internal HTML parser on received mail. Its choking on incoming mail which is bad html, and probable spam anyway/ Probably nothing to worry about. One reason I have my tbird to prefer plaintext over html.

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1453419486188 addons.update-checker WARN Update manifest for {972ce4c6-7e08-4474-a285-3208198ce6fd} did not contain an updates property

1453419487220 addons.update-checker WARN Update manifest for thunderbird-hotfix@mozilla.org did not contain an updates property

This is where it checks for updates to the plugins. Not sure of how significatn this is. Probably it won't apply that update. But I really don't know.

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Timestamp: 01/22/2016 01:09:23 AM Error: smtp.telefonica.net : server does not support RFC 5746, see CVE-2009-3555

You should get that on EVERY send. I don't think that is your problem So you are probably right, what ever is causing you problem does not appear to be logged. -- After all is said and done, more is said than done. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

04:16

On 2016-01-22 01:27, John Andersen wrote:

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On 01/21/2016 04:13 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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You should get that on EVERY send. I don't think that is your problem So you are probably right, what ever is causing you problem does not appear to be logged.

I finally caught it in postfix on another machine: <2.6> 2016-01-22 05:07:59 Telcontar postfix 30958 - - 185176066D: to=, relay=smtp.telefonica.net[86.109.99.70]:25, delay=0.46, delays=0.03/0.01/0.35/0.08, dsn=4.0.0, status=deferred (host smtp.telefonica.net[86.109.99.70] said: 451 Temporary local problem - please try later (in reply to end of DATA command)) Postfix behaves properly by queueing the post for later, as shown by the "mailq" command Telcontar:~ # mailq -Queue ID- --Size-- ----Arrival Time---- -Sender/Recipient------- 185176066D 2936 Fri Jan 22 05:07:59 robin.listas@telefonica.net (host smtp.telefonica.net[86.109.99.70] said: 451 Temporary local problem - please try later (in reply to end of DATA command)) opensuse@opensuse.org -- 3 Kbytes in 1 Request. Telcontar:~ # Force retry: Telcontar:~ # sendmail -q Telcontar:~ # mailq Mail queue is empty Telcontar:~ # So, it is thus a bug in Thunderbird that doesn't catch the situation properly. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

Per Jessen

07:49

Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On 2016-01-22 01:27, John Andersen wrote:

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On 01/21/2016 04:13 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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You should get that on EVERY send. I don't think that is your problem So you are probably right, what ever is causing you problem does not appear to be logged.

I finally caught it in postfix on another machine:

<2.6> 2016-01-22 05:07:59 Telcontar postfix 30958 - - 185176066D: to=, relay=smtp.telefonica.net[86.109.99.70]:25, delay=0.46, delays=0.03/0.01/0.35/0.08, dsn=4.0.0, status=deferred (host smtp.telefonica.net[86.109.99.70] said: 451 Temporary local problem - please try later (in reply to end of DATA command))

Sounds like it might be greylisting.

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So, it is thus a bug in Thunderbird that doesn't catch the situation properly.

At least it is easily reproduced then. You can make your postfix reply 451 to everything. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (-0.6°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - virtual servers, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

12:55

On 2016-01-22 08:49, Per Jessen wrote:

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Sounds like it might be greylisting.

But hidden? I thought that it could be a content filter, because a retry from thunderbird on the same account fails, several times. To retry, I have to copy the "sent" mail to the "draft" folder, click edit that email, and then click send. This means that the messageid changes, I believe.

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So, it is thus a bug in Thunderbird that doesn't catch the situation properly.

At least it is easily reproduced then. You can make your postfix reply 451 to everything.

On my permanent setups I do use postfix, and there it is not a problem. Postfix catches those temporary problems and automatically retries later. I can forget them. The problem are my temporary setups, like the test partition in my laptop for Leap, which being only 8 GB, I minimize what I do. There I send directly from Thunderbird, without using postfix, being a bit more complex to setup. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

Per Jessen

13:29

Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On 2016-01-22 08:49, Per Jessen wrote:

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Sounds like it might be greylisting.

But hidden?

Yes and no - the text isn't as important as the 451 code. They could have decided to alter the standard text into "Temporary local problem - please try later".

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I thought that it could be a content filter, because a retry from thunderbird on the same account fails, several times.

A default greylisting setup will fail all attempts in the first 15minutes. That window can also be changed.

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To retry, I have to copy the "sent" mail to the "draft" folder, click edit that email, and then click send. This means that the messageid changes, I believe.

Don't you also have "Edit as New" ? -- Per Jessen, Zürich (1.6°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - free dynamic DNS, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

13:43

On 2016-01-22 14:29, Per Jessen wrote:

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Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On 2016-01-22 08:49, Per Jessen wrote:

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Sounds like it might be greylisting.

But hidden?

Yes and no - the text isn't as important as the 451 code. They could have decided to alter the standard text into "Temporary local problem - please try later".

I see.

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I thought that it could be a content filter, because a retry from thunderbird on the same account fails, several times.

A default greylisting setup will fail all attempts in the first 15minutes. That window can also be changed.

Ah! I see. Now I understand. But why would it do greylisting, when there is a login/password? Maybe they don't ask for it when I use an IP of their pool :-? That's right, they don't ask me for authentication. <2.6> 2016-01-22 14:41:14 Telcontar postfix 7414 - - Untrusted TLS connection established to smtp.telefonica.net[86.109.99.70]:25: TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits) <2.6> 2016-01-22 14:41:14 Telcontar postfix 7414 - - E1606606C0: to=, relay=smtp.telefonica.net[86.109.99.70]:25, delay=290, delays=289/0.01/0.33/0.12, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 <567089D0037DFF72> Mail accepted) <2.6> 2016-01-22 14:41:14 Telcontar postfix 3566 - - E1606606C0: removed

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To retry, I have to copy the "sent" mail to the "draft" folder, click edit that email, and then click send. This means that the messageid changes, I believe.

Don't you also have "Edit as New" ?

In the sent folder? Wait. [...] Yes, I see the menu entry. Not in the context menu, but in the message menu. I didn't know about this feature. Thanks! -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

Carlos E. R.

19:10

On 2016-01-22 08:49, Per Jessen wrote:

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So, it is thus a bug in Thunderbird that doesn't catch the situation properly.

At least it is easily reproduced then. You can make your postfix reply 451 to everything.

I have created a Bugzilla: Bug 963282 - Thunderbird reacts incorrectly to an smtp 451 response -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

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Carlos E. R.
John Andersen
Per Jessen