YaST - i won't even touch YaST2 here - is nice for the beginner and the person who wants to use a functional system without worrying too much. but YaST is a nightmare for the established linux expert (i am blushing just a litte - but please don't consider me arrogant). it's the windows syndrome - make administration easier at the cost of complicating things and hiding important details. for instance, configuring my PCMCIA eth0 device is not something to be done in any other location than /etc/pcmcia/network.opts.
but hey, i am an established redhat/debian Linux user and new to suse, so i shall not rave and drool about things that i don't really have experience with right here.
i do have a question: what if i decided to abandon YaST, to uninstall it (YaST2 is already gone anyway), to move all YaST config stuff to something like /var/adm/backup or ~root/backup, to create my own scripts, and to use suse as a linux system and not as a suse system with YaST? sure, i'd loose installation support, but i don't really want that anyway. are there other consequences?
Well. I have two reactions to this. Firstly I think it may be a huge amount of work, and probably bothersome work, because yast does look after most of the dependencies for you. You should consider rc.config as being the cornerstone here - an the sub-scripts (so to speak) that it calls. In principle this is good system, certainly better than linuxconf, which is a real nightmare. I would be worried that you would be chasing your tail so-to-speak for quite a while. But if you have the time. My second reactions (I have asked Suse for an official statement on Yast1 but they are unlikely to give one) - is that if you do a good job of it and package the stuff together a bit you may become famous and all the pissed-off Suse people will knock at your door :) Personally I think my days using Suse are numbered anyway, the direction they are going in, and their complete lack of interest in their small-time users is starting to grate on me. They never listen or respond to suggestions or criticism. They are just trying to out-redhat redhat now. Ah well. Shame really, it is a pretty neat distribution. Good luck with your venture ! Cliff
what about certifications? as i understand, suse uses LPI certs - so knowledge of YaST should not be required. am i right?
is anyone of you running suse without YaST? experiences?
thanks, martin
[greetings from the heart of the sun]# echo madduck@!#:1:s@\@@@.net -- nobody expects the spanish inquisition.
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Cliff Sarginson wrote:
they are going in, and their complete lack of interest in their small-time users is starting to grate on me. They never listen or respond to suggestions or criticism. They are just trying to out-redhat redhat now. Hey that sounds like Microsoft!
Shame really, it is a pretty neat distribution. I think so too. It is too bad that commercial pressures make this go the same way as many others have in the past
Damon Register
also sprach Cliff Sarginson (on Mon, 08 Jan 2001 02:10:41PM +0000):
Firstly I think it may be a huge amount of work, and probably bothersome work, because yast does look after most of the dependencies for you. You should consider rc.config as being the cornerstone here - an the sub-scripts (so to speak) that it calls. In principle this is good system, certainly better than linuxconf, which is a real nightmare. I would be worried that you would be chasing your tail so-to-speak for quite a while. But if you have the time.
the first thing i did when i installed redhat was to get rid of linuxconf. however, linuxconf at least was transparent in that it's operation was straight forward, and the step from using to not using it was simple. YaST is totally tied into the system, and that thoroughly scares me. hey, there's a reason why i ditched that windoze crap to go into the *NIX world - because i like to know and control what the system is doing and exactly how it is doing it. i don't want no 2 billion DLLs and pretty (?) GUIs to hide the important stuff. i want vi and a lot of text files with cryptic syntax (<smile>well, actually... ). YaST scares me, that's for sure. so if i don't end up removing it, i might have to ditch suse and completely surf away on debian forever.
My second reactions (I have asked Suse for an official statement on Yast1 but they are unlikely to give one) - is that if you do a good job of it and package the stuff together a bit you may become famous and all the pissed-off Suse people will knock at your door :)
what do you mean - i am starting to get excited... do you mean that i should find a way to remove yast from a suse system? (reminds me of windoze 98 and internet disabler (uh, explorer)) or should i find a way of making yast better, more compact, more understandable, less mysterious, and less dictating - i.e. enable the simultaneous usage of yast as well as regular vi/text files?
Personally I think my days using Suse are numbered anyway, the direction they are going in, and their complete lack of interest in their small-time users is starting to grate on me. They never listen or respond to suggestions or criticism. They are just trying to out-redhat redhat now.
yup. that's where commercialism leads. it kills the companies. that's what happened to micro$oft. it's happening to suse and redhat. if someone at suse reads this then i would like to express my greatest "sorry" for them because for the longest time, they were the best... read: *were*.
Ah well. Shame really, it is a pretty neat distribution.
can you sum up what makes it neat as opposed to debian? sure, the package management beats redhat's, but debian has a pretty excellent system. and other than that, i am starting to believe that suse = debian + rpm + yast. martin [greetings from the heart of the sun]# echo madduck@!#:1:s@\@@@.net -- please keep your hands off the secretary's reproducing equipment.
MaD dUCK wrote:
what do you mean - i am starting to get excited... do you mean that i should find a way to remove yast from a suse system? (reminds me of windoze 98 and internet disabler (uh, explorer)) or should i find a way of making yast better, more compact, more understandable, less mysterious, and less dictating - i.e. enable the simultaneous usage of yast as well as regular vi/text files?
You could try that... Maybe start out as kind of a KRUD-like distro (for those not familiar w/ it, KRUD is Kevin's RedHat Uber-Distribution, and it is basically Redhat w/ latest errata and added goodies, but it is still RedHat.), and eventually, if interest builds, move on like Mandrake did. I agree... SuSE seems to be giving the impression (to me at least) that what they really care about is the big boys. Us small fry don't count. If you read the SuSE manual, it seems more and more that only the bare minimum of support is free... anything else, well of course they'd be happy to help you set up for a fee or contract :( I think it is starting to show, too, at least here on this list. Think about it, if you have been following this list for a while (year or so). The traffic volume seems to definitely dropped, and it seems like it coincided w/ the release of 7.0 'Personal' and 'Professional', the subsequent price hike, and the interminable delay betwn announcement of 7.0, release, release stateside, and the release of the 'free' version. The argument has been made that SuSE as a company has the right to make money off the software before they 'give' it away. True, but not even RedHat milks things this much. I got fed up and went and dinked w/ a bunch of other distros when 7.0 took so long to get to the states, and Debian has just about sucked me in ;). SuSE's high overall quality is nice, and I came back for a bit here to see if maybe I had been incorrect in my perceptions... maybe not. YMMV. I really hope that 7.1 marks the turnaround, or at least course correction of SuSE as a distro, or they will have truly earned the moniker of the 'RedHat of Europe'. Monte
.
I agree... SuSE seems to be giving the impression (to me at least) that what they really care about is the big boys. Us small fry don't count. If you read the SuSE manual, it seems more and more that only the bare minimum of support is free... anything else, well of course they'd be happy to help you set up for a fee or contract :(
Monte , I think you hit the nial on the head , especialy after there last price hike , and now thaat you mention it the contracts/cunsulting bit. Did you get that big four page fold out marketing gig for there consulting stuff ? I am REALY GLAD that this mailing list is still hetre and free , and I was some what consoled in that the pro version comes with a longer tech suport plan , although that is looking less usable as most calls come out side the install issues or are considered advanced calls. As long as the hardware is connected and there is some basic usability then it is installed and 3every thing elsce comes outside the scope of the teck suport supplied with the off the shelf box. This issue in regards to printer problems with an epson 1160 printer realy pissed me off , and realy shows one of the mian weaknesses in linux and distros in genereral. The hardware suport for printers and newer hardware realy has to be there and bee working right out the box if they realy want to compete with M$. especily for newer users who arent going to spend several hourrs tracking down docs , editing and re editing configuration files and recompileing GS and other stuff to get a printer to work. My last venture to the suported printer was way out of date , especialy regarding newer printers. I mean not all of us are still using laser jet II right now.
I think it is starting to show, too, at least here on this list. Think about it, if you have been following this list for a while (year or so). The traffic volume seems to definitely dropped, and it seems like it coincided w/ the release of 7.0 'Personal' and 'Professional', the subsequent price hike, and the interminable delay betwn announcement of 7.0, release, release stateside, and the release of the 'free' version. The argument has been made that SuSE as a company has the right to make money off the software before they 'give' it away. True, but not even RedHat milks things this much.
I got fed up and went and dinked w/ a bunch of other distros when 7.0 took so long to get to the states, and Debian has just about sucked me in ;). SuSE's high overall quality is nice, and I came back for a bit here to see if maybe I had been incorrect in my perceptions... maybe not. YMMV.
I really hope that 7.1 marks the turnaround, or at least course correction of SuSE as a distro, or they will have truly earned the moniker of the 'RedHat of Europe'.
Monte
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If SuSE is like other distributions, they serve up mail lists like this to make users available to other users and stem the tide of needed employee support. IE. they don't pay Ben or Lenz to roam this list. SuSE is 1st a business and profit is what business is looking for. So a happy medium between the corporate bucks and the single user is what is available. Red Hat went after corporate America and departed from some things I found important, so I tried SuSE and have liked the distro. Best Regards On Mon, 8 Jan 2001, Samy Elashmawy wrote:
.
I agree... SuSE seems to be giving the impression (to me at least) that what they really care about is the big boys. Us small fry don't count. If you read the SuSE manual, it seems more and more that only the bare minimum of support is free... anything else, well of course they'd be happy to help you set up for a fee or contract :(
Monte , I think you hit the nial on the head , especialy after there last price hike , and now thaat you mention it the contracts/cunsulting bit. Did you get that big four page fold out marketing gig for there consulting stuff ?
I am REALY GLAD that this mailing list is still hetre and free , and I was some what consoled in that the pro version comes with a longer tech suport plan , although that is looking less usable as most calls come out side the install issues or are considered advanced calls. As long as the hardware is connected and there is some basic usability then it is installed and 3every thing elsce comes outside the scope of the teck suport supplied with the off the shelf box.
This issue in regards to printer problems with an epson 1160 printer realy pissed me off , and realy shows one of the mian weaknesses in linux and distros in genereral. The hardware suport for printers and newer hardware realy has to be there and bee working right out the box if they realy want to compete with M$. especily for newer users who arent going to spend several hourrs tracking down docs , editing and re editing configuration files and recompileing GS and other stuff to get a printer to work. My last venture to the suported printer was way out of date , especialy regarding newer printers. I mean not all of us are still using laser jet II right now.
I think it is starting to show, too, at least here on this list. Think about it, if you have been following this list for a while (year or so). The traffic volume seems to definitely dropped, and it seems like it coincided w/ the release of 7.0 'Personal' and 'Professional', the subsequent price hike, and the interminable delay betwn announcement of 7.0, release, release stateside, and the release of the 'free' version. The argument has been made that SuSE as a company has the right to make money off the software before they 'give' it away. True, but not even RedHat milks things this much.
I got fed up and went and dinked w/ a bunch of other distros when 7.0 took so long to get to the states, and Debian has just about sucked me in ;). SuSE's high overall quality is nice, and I came back for a bit here to see if maybe I had been incorrect in my perceptions... maybe not. YMMV.
I really hope that 7.1 marks the turnaround, or at least course correction of SuSE as a distro, or they will have truly earned the moniker of the 'RedHat of Europe'.
Monte
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At 04:11 PM 1/8/2001 -0900, Dee McKinney wrote:
If SuSE is like other distributions, they serve up mail lists like this to make users available to other users and stem the tide of needed employee support. IE. they don't pay Ben or Lenz to roam this list. SuSE is 1st a business and profit is what business is looking for. So a happy medium between the corporate bucks and the single user is what is available.
If it werent for Ben , Lenz , and ALL the countless others who havee constantly pitched in , even on quaestions that have been asked time after time , meny of us would have left a long time ago.
Red Hat went after corporate America and departed from some things I found important, so I tried SuSE and have liked the distro.
Best Regards
On Mon, 8 Jan 2001, Samy Elashmawy wrote:
.
I agree... SuSE seems to be giving the impression (to me at least) that what they really care about is the big boys. Us small fry don't count. If you read the SuSE manual, it seems more and more that only the bare minimum of support is free... anything else, well of course they'd be happy to help you set up for a fee or contract :(
Monte , I think you hit the nial on the head , especialy after there last price hike , and now thaat you mention it the contracts/cunsulting bit. Did you get that big four page fold out marketing gig for there consulting stuff ?
I am REALY GLAD that this mailing list is still hetre and free , and I was some what consoled in that the pro version comes with a longer tech suport plan , although that is looking less usable as most calls come out side the install issues or are considered advanced calls. As long as the hardware is connected and there is some basic usability then it is installed and 3every thing elsce comes outside the scope of the teck suport supplied with the off the shelf box.
This issue in regards to printer problems with an epson 1160 printer realy pissed me off , and realy shows one of the mian weaknesses in linux and distros in genereral. The hardware suport for printers and newer hardware realy has to be there and bee working right out the box if they realy want to compete with M$. especily for newer users who arent going to spend several hourrs tracking down docs , editing and re editing configuration files and recompileing GS and other stuff to get a printer to work. My last venture to the suported printer was way out of date , especialy regarding newer printers. I mean not all of us are still using laser jet II right now.
I think it is starting to show, too, at least here on this list. Think about it, if you have been following this list for a while (year or so). The traffic volume seems to definitely dropped, and it seems like it coincided w/ the release of 7.0 'Personal' and 'Professional', the subsequent price hike, and the interminable delay betwn announcement of 7.0, release, release stateside, and the release of the 'free' version. The argument has been made that SuSE as a company has the right to make money off the software before they 'give' it away. True, but not even RedHat milks things this much.
I got fed up and went and dinked w/ a bunch of other distros when 7.0 took so long to get to the states, and Debian has just about sucked me in ;). SuSE's high overall quality is nice, and I came back for a bit here to see if maybe I had been incorrect in my perceptions... maybe not. YMMV.
I really hope that 7.1 marks the turnaround, or at least course correction of SuSE as a distro, or they will have truly earned the moniker of the 'RedHat of Europe'.
Monte
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On Tuesday 09 January 2001 00:35, Samy Elashmawy wrote: ...
If it werent for Ben , Lenz , and ALL the countless others who havee constantly pitched in , even on quaestions that have been asked time after time , meny of us would have left a long time ago.
We begin to take things for granted, then start whining, then bitching. This mail list is the best on the planet. In every way. Period. It matches the quality of the best distro on the planet. Which explains why we have so many questions about other distros and even WinXX. Ben, Lenz and all the SuSE folks ROCK! And, we need to tell them more often how much we appreciate them. Run RH for a while and you will understand. -- Scientific theories, according to Sir Karl Popper, can be "falsified," or proven wrong, by experiment. Unscientific theories -Marxist dialectical history and Freudian psychology were Popper's favorites- are formed in such a way that they cannot be falsified by data.
Jerry Kreps wrote:
On Tuesday 09 January 2001 00:35, Samy Elashmawy wrote: ...
If it werent for Ben , Lenz , and ALL the countless others who havee constantly pitched in , even on quaestions that have been asked time after time , meny of us would have left a long time ago.
We begin to take things for granted, then start whining, then bitching.
This mail list is the best on the planet. In every way. Period. It matches the quality of the best distro on the planet. Which explains why we have so many questions about other distros and even WinXX.
Ben, Lenz and all the SuSE folks ROCK! And, we need to tell them more often how much we appreciate them.
Run RH for a while and you will understand.
-- Scientific theories, according to Sir Karl Popper, can be "falsified," or proven wrong, by experiment. Unscientific theories -Marxist dialectical history and Freudian psychology were Popper's favorites- are formed in such a way that they cannot be falsified by data.
-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq
May I say AMEN!! to that. I myself have been using SuSE 6.4 for about 6 months now. The other day I decided to install/play with RedHAt 6.2 that I had lying around. It is like a Rambler compared to SuSE. I have since deleted RH6.2. Anybody want a RedHat 6.2 Deluxe box? Jerry VB
On Wednesday 10 January 2001 00:48, Jerry VB wrote:
Jerry Kreps wrote: May I say AMEN!! to that. Me too brother SuSE'r
I myself have been using SuSE 6.4 for about 6 months now. The other day I decided to install/play with RedHAt 6.2 that I had lying around. It is like a Rambler compared to SuSE. I have since deleted RH6.2. Anybody want a RedHat 6.2 Deluxe box? Not me thank's, I'm not into S & M
Jerry VB
ei -- @~~ EagleIce ~ gnu4u@linux.nu ~~@ @~~ Running GNU/Linux & KDE ~~@
On Tue, Jan 09, 2001 at 04:54:21PM -0600 or thereabouts, Jerry Kreps wrote:
On Tuesday 09 January 2001 00:35, Samy Elashmawy wrote: ...
If it werent for Ben , Lenz , and ALL the countless others who havee constantly pitched in , even on quaestions that have been asked time after time , meny of us would have left a long time ago.
We begin to take things for granted, then start whining, then bitching.
This mail list is the best on the planet. In every way. Period. It matches the quality of the best distro on the planet. Which explains why we have so many questions about other distros and even WinXX.
Ben, Lenz and all the SuSE folks ROCK! And, we need to tell them more often how much we appreciate them.
Run RH for a while and you will understand.
Jerry, I agree with you 1000%, and am very appreciative of Ben, Lenz and the group. I have learned much from Ben's and Lenz's comments regarding SuSE, as well as the independent people who respond to my questions.. and hope it continues. -- Best regards, Gary Today's thought: BREAKFAST.COM Halted - Cereal port not responding.
Jerry Kreps
On Tuesday 09 January 2001 00:35, Samy Elashmawy wrote: ...
If it werent for Ben , Lenz , and ALL the countless others who havee constantly pitched in , even on quaestions that have been asked time after time , meny of us would have left a long time ago.
We begin to take things for granted, then start whining, then bitching.
This mail list is the best on the planet. In every way. Period. It matches the quality of the best distro on the planet. Which explains why we have so many questions about other distros and even WinXX.
Ben, Lenz and all the SuSE folks ROCK! And, we need to tell them more often how much we appreciate them.
Run RH for a while and you will understand.
I ran RH faithfully from 2.0 till 5.2. That's when SuSE sent me a copy of 4.2. I have been with SuSE since. There have been several great employees who helped on this list since I signed up, which coupled with the hard work that goes into the distro, makes for a clear winner in my book. /Dee
Better yet post a newwbie question and get a bunch of replys to RTFM , here you get an answer to the question and not brushed off.
Ben, Lenz and all the SuSE folks ROCK! And, we need to tell them more often how much we appreciate them.
Run RH for a while and you will understand.
-- Scientific theories, according to Sir Karl Popper, can be "falsified," or
proven wrong, by experiment.
Unscientific theories -Marxist dialectical history and Freudian psychology were Popper's favorites- are formed in such a way that they cannot be falsified by data.
Yo Samy! Doesn't your Eudora thing have a spell checker? I like your snappy inputs on the list but your spelling is horrible.....:-) Now I've had the opportunity to run Kmail 1.1.99's spell checker on your mail. No offense...;-) Cheers, ei On Monday 08 January 2001 16:56, Samy Elashmawy wrote:
.. [snip]
I am REALLY GLAD that this mailing list is still here and free , and I was some what consoled in that the pro version comes with a longer tech support plan , although that is looking less usable as most calls come out side the install issues or are considered advanced calls. As long as the hardware is connected and there is some basic usability then it is installed and 3every thing else comes outside the scope of the tech support supplied with the off the shelf box.
This issue in regards to printer problems with an Epson 1160 printer really pissed me off , and really shows one of the main weaknesses in linux and distros in general. The hardware support for printers and newer hardware really has to be there and bee working right out the box if they really want to compete with M$. especially for newer users who aren't going to spend several hours tracking down docks , editing and re editing configuration files and recompiling GS and other stuff to get a printer to work. My last venture to the supported printer was way out of date , especially regarding newer printers. I mean not all of us are still using laser jet II right now. [snip] -- @~~ EagleIce ~ gnu4u@linux.nu ~~@ @~~ Running GNU/Linux & KDE ~~@
On Mon, Jan 08, 2001 at 03:56:22PM +0000 or thereabouts, Samy Elashmawy wrote:
This issue in regards to printer problems with an epson 1160 printer realy pissed me off , and realy shows one of the mian weaknesses in linux and distros in genereral. The hardware suport for printers and newer hardware
Hi Samy, I noticed that another distro (Mandrake) has now standardized on CUPS to handle their printer stuff in Linux. I have seen this being used and it works well with many different printers. I think that SuSE could have offered it in this newest distro version as well. I think that SuSE is superbly engineered and extremely fast, as compared to most distros. What I feel is lacking is that when a new version comes out, its seems to be still behind in the latest technology as compared with the other distros. For example, others have put in KDE2 as standard default in their distro, others have had the LILO without the 1024 cylinder limitation out long before SuSE, others have had CUPS out now in the distro, etc. I bring this up in a constructive manner to express what competition is doing in their latest distros.
I think it is starting to show, too, at least here on this list. Think about it, if you have been following this list for a while (year or so). The traffic volume seems to definitely dropped, and it seems like
I have noticed this too. Not sure about the timing though. -- Best regards, Gary Today's thought: BREAKFAST.COM Halted - Cereal port not responding.
To be quite honest , ALL the superb engenearing and speed just dont hold water if you cant get the periphials working. I ended up resorting to the ESP Drivers on that one , and apps are a bitt dogish on a P166 which is why I use linux on them. I would dump suse on that one machine for a distro that realy suports the wide caraige printer and the custome size paper that I nned to use. Its not pleasing to have salt rubbed into the wound. I will give suse pionts in that they at least supplied enough BASIC info so I (as a printer newbie) was able after a few hours resurch find I was over my head as far as getting a working solution. Turns out the the grant tayler printing system and she STP driver (Hello Suse wheres the stp driver) As I recall , the ESP drivers use cups as well. I am also realy disapionted in there new pricing structure as well as the "limited" tech suport that comes with it. I will give them pionts for extending it with the pro version. I shelled out for it , as I have four boxes and its just easier to use a set of cds to keep them up to date ,as I dont have any high speed acsess. I have also notieced the newer trend that realy disturbs me. That peaple are starting to jump ship to other distros. I have not seen so meny threads and post there have been since 7.0 was put up. I happen to have four boxes , and realy like yast for the system admin stuff , as its a real time saver. Yast2 is evolving , but way too slow for my likes , although it did set it nup for 8 by 11 paper. I still find my selh going back to yast to clean things up and keep the boxes running. Mandrake cost pretty much the same as suse last time I checked , Debian look better and is rock solid as well , but I think I two will wait it out for 7.1 and see how it looks. You are right in that they have decided to become some what M$ like in trying to ever thing for every one , instead of focusing on a particular group. They have taken there fucus off of user needs and shifted it to the "corparate" custoimer who has the bucks to spend on a big budget tech contract , at the expense of us smaller guys. ie lilo and the 1024 cyclender limit. They should be realy focusing on user needs ie MORE hardware suport ect... At 10:56 PM 1/8/2001 -0600, Gary wrote:
On Mon, Jan 08, 2001 at 03:56:22PM +0000 or thereabouts, Samy Elashmawy wrote:
This issue in regards to printer problems with an epson 1160 printer realy pissed me off , and realy shows one of the mian weaknesses in linux and distros in genereral. The hardware suport for printers and newer hardware
Hi Samy, I noticed that another distro (Mandrake) has now standardized on CUPS to handle their printer stuff in Linux. I have seen this being used and it works well with many different printers. I think that SuSE could have offered it in this newest distro version as well.
I think that SuSE is superbly engineered and extremely fast, as compared to most distros. What I feel is lacking is that when a new version comes out, its seems to be still behind in the latest technology as compared with the other distros. For example, others have put in KDE2 as standard default in their distro, others have had the LILO without the 1024 cylinder limitation out long before SuSE, others have had CUPS out now in the distro, etc. I bring this up in a constructive manner to express what competition is doing in their latest distros.
I think it is starting to show, too, at least here on this list. Think about it, if you have been following this list for a while (year or so). The traffic volume seems to definitely dropped, and it seems like
I have noticed this too. Not sure about the timing though.
-- Best regards, Gary
Today's thought: BREAKFAST.COM Halted - Cereal port not responding.
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On Mon, 8 Jan 2001 22:56:24 -0600
Gary
Hi Samy, I noticed that another distro (Mandrake) has now standardized on CUPS to handle their printer stuff in Linux. I have seen this being used and it works well with many different printers. I think that SuSE could have offered it in this newest distro version as well.
Seen how much they want to charge for the full version? Certain people are whinging about the price as it is, let alone if they added THAT overhead!?
I think that SuSE is superbly engineered and extremely fast, as compared to most distros. What I feel is lacking is that when a new version comes out, its seems to be still behind in the latest technology as compared with the other distros. For example, others have put in KDE2 as standard default in their distro, others have had the LILO without the 1024 cylinder limitation out long before SuSE, others have had CUPS out now in the distro, etc. I bring this up in a constructive manner to express what competition is doing in their latest distros.
Go look at the other distros mailing lists. As far as KDE2 goes, the problems people are having are simply enormous, (this list gets enough of them as well).
AFAIK SuSE are aiming at the business end of the market. They would rather release with a slightly older, but proven (or at least, known) version of something, than risk their customers losing business because some 'bleeding edge' app failed to work as planned.
As far as support for hardware goes, there is no point bleating about it here - do what I do, get onto the maker of the hardware. Ask them if they would like to increase sales by 10% or better. Then tell them the easiest way to do this is to release the control codes for their hardware to the Linux community. Unless they do this, we cannot use their product.
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also sprach Monte Milanuk (on Tue, 09 Jan 2001 12:25:11AM -0700):
You could try that... Maybe start out as kind of a KRUD-like distro (for those not familiar w/ it, KRUD is Kevin's RedHat Uber-Distribution, and it is basically Redhat w/ latest errata and added goodies, but it is still RedHat.), and eventually, if interest builds, move on like Mandrake did.
could you, in a sentence or so, sum up "what mandrake did" ? because i don't know. thanks, martin [greetings from the heart of the sun]# echo madduck@!#:1:s@\@@@.net -- "when I was a boy I was told that anybody could become president. now i'm beginning to believe it." -- clarence darrow
participants (11)
-
Cliff Sarginson -
Damon Register -
Dee McKinney -
Don Hansford -
EagleIce -
Gary -
Jerry Kreps -
Jerry VB -
MaD dUCK -
Monte Milanuk -
Samy Elashmawy