[opensuse] Dddddooppplicating keys

John Andersen

24 Nov 2006 24 Nov '06

05:46

On my core 2 duo machine running SUSE 10.1 I get a lot of key duplication while typing. Using KDE 3.5.1 and still happening with 3.5.5 from opensuse. Its gotten so bad I had to turn off autorepeat in the KDE configuration (personal settings). With that turned off, there is no duplications, even when you hold down a key. With it on, even with very conservative settings of delay and repeat you will find words with strings of the same character every sentence. Exit Kde, Open Fvwm (or any of the alternative light weight window managers (ye gads those start up fast!!!) and there is NO duplication in any of their limited set of tools UNTIL you open a kde app then even things as simple as kedit or kwrite duplicate characters. I can have Kword and OOO.Writer opened up at the same time, and kword will get duplicate characters. But clicking into OOWriter gives no duplicates. No duplicates in Ctrl-Alt-F1-thru-6 consoles or when init 3. So its not a keyboard problem. The settings in xorg.conf (keyboard section) Option "Autorepeat" "500 20" seems to have no effect on kde. I'd be happy if I could get KDE to leave it alone and accept the x servers settings. Any one else seeing this? -- _____________________________________ John Andersen

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Clayton

24 Nov 24 Nov

07:00

...

On my core 2 duo machine running SUSE 10.1 I get a lot of key duplication while typing. Using KDE 3.5.1 and still happening with 3.5.5 from opensuse.

[snip]

...

Any one else seeing this?

What kernel are you using? I reported exactly this problem a couple of times on the list, and was told various things (on list and off list) from I was stupid to all I have to do was kill the keyboard repeat in KDE to a defective keyboard to it wasn't a problem and I was imagining it. The general consensus was that the "correct" solution was the keyboard repeat setting. If I use the default (SMP) kernel on the original release of SUSE10.1 everything works fine. If I upgrade to ANY other newer SUSE released kernel, the keyboard repeat gets so bad I cannot use the computer. (an AMD X2 3800+) It's worth noting that in Kubuntu, I _am_ using the latest kernel builds, and have absolutely no problems at all with keyboard repeats. It is a kernel issue... that is the only common denominator to the problem. What exactly it is.. .I have no idea. All I can say is it is directly related to the kernel build for SUSE, and only for the SUSE kernel. C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

John Andersen

08:07

On Thursday 23 November 2006 22:00, Clayton wrote:

...

...
On my core 2 duo machine running SUSE 10.1 I get a lot of key duplication while typing. Using KDE 3.5.1 and still happening with 3.5.5 from opensuse.

[snip]

...
Any one else seeing this?

What kernel are you using? I reported exactly this problem a couple of times on the list, and was told various things (on list and off list) from I was stupid to all I have to do was kill the keyboard repeat in KDE to a defective keyboard to it wasn't a problem and I was imagining it. The general consensus was that the "correct" solution was the keyboard repeat setting.

If I use the default (SMP) kernel on the original release of SUSE10.1 everything works fine. If I upgrade to ANY other newer SUSE released kernel, the keyboard repeat gets so bad I cannot use the computer. (an AMD X2 3800+)

I googled a bit before I posted, and saw your posts. and also saw that this has been a running problem off and on since Kde 2. It gets fixed, it gets broke, but it never dawns on anyone to just have a checkbox for KDE to leave it the hell alone and let the X server handle this. I'm using the X86_64 kernel: 2.6.16.21-0.25-smp from the RE-MASTERED 10.1 Opensuse DVD, on a core 2 duo Dell 9400. (laptop). Its a brand new machine with no keyboard problems as long as I stay out of kde apps. Heck, even launching OOWriter from KDE never has a problem. I found that I can turn off repeat in the kde control panel and it does not duplicate, but any time I need repetition, such as back spacing over a line of text, it gets really annoying. Setting the repeat delay way up (800+ms) does not help at all. It still repeats instantaneously, except when you want it to, which then you have to hold the key down for 800 or 1000 milliseconds to get it to kick in. <shouting on> CLAYTON IS NOT CRAZY ! </shouting> ....there, hope that helps. ;-) -- _____________________________________ John Andersen

John Andersen

08:14

On Thursday 23 November 2006 22:00, Clayton wrote:

...

It's worth noting that in Kubuntu, I _am_ using the latest kernel builds, and have absolutely no problems at all with keyboard repeats. It is a kernel issue... that is the only common denominator to the problem. What exactly it is.. .I have no idea.

Forgot to respond to this part.... I also tried Kubuntu and Mepis live CDs, and then even installed Kubuntu while I was waiting for that slow Ktorrent download* of remastered 10.1 Kubuntu (or Mepis) never gave me any problem, but (and its a pretty big but) neither of them install an SMP kernel unless you go back thru and recompile. Bout the time I was fixin to do that, the download finished. --------* (side note) New Ktorrent 2.1 Beta1 just out yesterday. I compiled from tarballs. It is so fast I couldn't believe it. I've never seen Ktorrent absolutely fill ALL of my available bandwidth before today. That's the way torrents are supposed to work!! -- _____________________________________ John Andersen

Clayton

08:39

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Kubuntu (or Mepis) never gave me any problem, but (and its a pretty big but) neither of them install an SMP kernel unless you go back thru and recompile.

Ummm isn't that because just like in the new SUSE kernels (10.2 release) that SMP is enabled in the default kernel? That's what I've been told, and on my Kubuntu install, using the default kernel, I appear to have all the SMP functionality enabled. I've never looked into it all that far since it was worked as expected with CPU load nicely distributed over both cores.

...

New Ktorrent 2.1 Beta1 just out yesterday. I compiled from tarballs.

It is so fast I couldn't believe it. I've never seen Ktorrent absolutely fill ALL of my available bandwidth before today. That's the way torrents are supposed to work!!

Very nice isn't it? :-) I don't use anything else anymore.

...

<shouting on> CLAYTON IS NOT CRAZY ! </shouting> ....there, hope that helps. ;-)

Ha ha ha... you're the only on on the planet that thinks that :-) So... other people see the same problem... and it seems to be tired to something in the kernel build. How do you go about pinning it down though? Doing a clone config and then disabling an option, recompiling the kernel and testing it seems like a long laborious process. C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

John Andersen

09:07

On Thursday 23 November 2006 23:39, Clayton wrote:

...

...
Kubuntu (or Mepis) never gave me any problem, but (and its a pretty big but) neither of them install an SMP kernel unless you go back thru and recompile.

Ummm isn't that because just like in the new SUSE kernels (10.2 release) that SMP is enabled in the default kernel? That's what I've been told, and on my Kubuntu install, using the default kernel, I appear to have all the SMP functionality enabled. I've never looked into it all that far since it was worked as expected with CPU load nicely distributed over both cores.

Well, when I was running tests installs, It seems to me that Top did not show two processors, and when researching why, I found documentation to the effect that a kernel compile was needed. But, I'm not going back and installing Kubuntu or Mepis just to verify that. Anyway I put it in bugzilla Bug 223561. Go "Me Too" it. NEW INFO: Just for grins, before submitting the bug, I went into my bios and turned off the setting allowing the machine to appear as a dual processor. The keyboard does not duplicate with Single Processor. !! But boy is it Sloooooooooow. <----- not keyboard duplication ;-) -- _____________________________________ John Andersen

John Andersen

09:42

On Friday 24 November 2006 00:07, John Andersen wrote:

...

Well, when I was running tests installs, It seems to me that Top did not show two processors, and when researching why, I found documentation to the effect that a kernel compile was needed.

Slapped my Kubuntu 6.10 edgy disk in and I saw both processors and no duplicating keys. Maybe it was 6.01 or mepis i found that on. -- _____________________________________ John Andersen

Alain Black

08:18

...

-----Original Message----- From: Clayton [mailto:smaug42@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, November 24, 2006 12:00 AM To: opensuse@opensuse.org Subject: Re: [opensuse] Dddddooppplicating keys

...
On my core 2 duo machine running SUSE 10.1 I get a lot of key duplication while typing. Using KDE 3.5.1 and still happening with 3.5.5 from opensuse.

[snip]

...
Any one else seeing this?

What kernel are you using? I reported exactly this problem a couple of times on the list, and was told various things (on list and off list) from I was stupid to all I have to do was kill the keyboard repeat in KDE to a defective keyboard to it wasn't a problem and I was imagining it. The general consensus was that the "correct" solution was the keyboard repeat setting.

If I use the default (SMP) kernel on the original release of SUSE10.1 everything works fine. If I upgrade to ANY other newer SUSE released kernel, the keyboard repeat gets so bad I cannot use the computer. (an AMD X2 3800+)

It's worth noting that in Kubuntu, I _am_ using the latest kernel builds, and have absolutely no problems at all with keyboard repeats. It is a kernel issue... that is the only common denominator to the problem. What exactly it is.. .I have no idea. All I can say is it is directly related to the kernel build for SUSE, and only for the SUSE kernel.

Same problem on 5 installs with SLES10 x86 and SUSE 10.1 x86. Not sure if I saw the problem on the x86_64 installs. The systems were socket AM2 AMD 4200+ HE and an AMD Opteron socket 1207s. The problem only becomes apparent after performing the online update. Prior to that everything seems to be working normally. I've used PS2 and USB keyboards as well as mice. The problem does get hidden if I disable key repeat (both KDE and GNOME), but that doesn't seem to be a real solution to the problem. -Alain. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

John Andersen

09:09

On Thursday 23 November 2006 23:18, Alain Black wrote:

...

The systems were socket AM2 AMD 4200+ HE and an AMD Opteron socket 1207s. The problem only becomes apparent after performing the online update. Prior to that everything seems to be working normally.

Pardon my AMD ignorance Alain, but are those Dual processor machines (or the kind that at least appear to the OS as if they were?). -- _____________________________________ John Andersen

Alain Black

25 Nov 25 Nov

02:27

...

-----Original Message----- From: John Andersen [mailto:jsa@pen.homeip.net] Sent: Friday, November 24, 2006 2:10 AM To: opensuse@opensuse.org Subject: Re: [opensuse] Dddddooppplicating keys

...
The systems were socket AM2 AMD 4200+ HE and an AMD Opteron socket 1207s. The problem only becomes apparent after performing

On Thursday 23 November 2006 23:18, Alain Black wrote: the online

...
update. Prior to that everything seems to be working normally.

Pardon my AMD ignorance Alain, but are those Dual processor machines (or the kind that at least appear to the OS as if they were?).

My appologies, I forgot the X2 part of the name. It is indeed the dual core chip. The opteron is a 2212, which is dual core as well. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Patrick Shanahan

24 Nov 24 Nov

13:05

* John Andersen [11-24-06 00:48]:

...

On my core 2 duo machine running SUSE 10.1 I get a lot of key duplication while typing. Using KDE 3.5.1 and still happening with 3.5.5 from opensuse.

I toooo with X2 4200+ 2.6.18.2-jen37-default SMP SUSE 10.1 Personal Settings -> Peripherals -> Keyboard increase the keyboard delay to ~700msec and OK -- Patrick Shanahan Registered Linux User #207535 http://wahoo.no-ip.org @ http://counter.li.org HOG # US1244711 Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Clayton

13:48

...

Personal Settings -> Peripherals -> Keyboard

increase the keyboard delay to ~700msec

and OK

That is not a solution.. it's a poor quality (unacceptable) workaround to a fundamental problem. Why can other kernels (of the same build/version) provided by other distros/people work fine, yet anything from the SUSE builds is bugged by this keyboard repeat problem? I hope, when I get home tonight, that I am able to contribute a little to the bug that has been opened on this. :-( C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Kjartan Geble Olsen

14:53

On Fri, 24 Nov 2006 14:48:36 +0100, Clayton wrote:

...

...
Personal Settings -> Peripherals -> Keyboard

increase the keyboard delay to ~700msec

and OK

That is not a solution.. it's a poor quality (unacceptable) workaround to a fundamental problem.

Why can other kernels (of the same build/version) provided by other distros/people work fine, yet anything from the SUSE builds is bugged by this keyboard repeat problem? I hope, when I get home tonight, that I am able to contribute a little to the bug that has been opened on this. :-(

C.

I have the same problem with any kernel newer than the default supplied with 10.1. Increasing the keyboard delay didn't help if I recall correctly. There are more than just the keyboard going nuts, however. Everything relating to timing seems to be broken, games (Torcs) doesn't work well, multimedia playback is distorted and the system clock slows down. All these problems increase in severity with increasing system load. If I use the clock as a screensaver, I can see the clock advance 3 seconds and then jump back a second or two. I'm still using the default kernel on this system, hoping 10.2 will fix it.. -- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

John Andersen

20:49

On Friday 24 November 2006 05:53, Kjartan Geble Olsen wrote:

...

On Fri, 24 Nov 2006 14:48:36 +0100, Clayton wrote:

...
...
Personal Settings -> Peripherals -> Keyboard

increase the keyboard delay to ~700msec

and OK

That is not a solution.. it's a poor quality (unacceptable) workaround to a fundamental problem.

Why can other kernels (of the same build/version) provided by other distros/people work fine, yet anything from the SUSE builds is bugged by this keyboard repeat problem? I hope, when I get home tonight, that I am able to contribute a little to the bug that has been opened on this. :-(

C.

I have the same problem with any kernel newer than the default supplied with 10.1. Increasing the keyboard delay didn't help if I recall correctly. There are more than just the keyboard going nuts, however. Everything relating to timing seems to be broken, games (Torcs) doesn't work well, multimedia playback is distorted and the system clock slows down. All these problems increase in severity with increasing system load. If I use the clock as a screensaver, I can see the clock advance 3 seconds and then jump back a second or two.

I'm still using the default kernel on this system, hoping 10.2 will fix it..

--

For the record, Kjartan , can you post your hardware and kernel version. Novell has closed the bug report saying it is a non-issue caused by the ntpd. I've shut down ntpd and it still persists. We have to keep voting for this bug if we expect any resolution. If they don't even agree its a problem they are not going to fix it. Log into https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=223561 create an account and add you comments to this bug. -- _____________________________________ John Andersen

Darryl Gregorash

21:21

On 2006-11-24 14:49, John Andersen wrote:

...

<snip>

Novell has closed the bug report saying it is a non-issue caused by the ntpd. I've shut down ntpd and it still persists. We have to keep voting for this bug if we expect any resolution. If they don't even agree its a problem they are not going to fix it.

Log into https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=223561 create an account and add you comments to this bug.

Actually reopened and assigned to the kernel team, as of only a few minutes ago (14:09 MST/UTC-0700). And yes, Clayton does appear to have commented :-) Oh, and I voted for the bug, even though it doesn't (yet) affect me -- because I am intending (so far) to upgrade to 10.2 very soon after the GM is released. -- The best way to accelerate a computer running Windows is at 9.81 m/s² -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

22:59

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Thursday 2006-11-23 at 20:46 -0900, John Andersen wrote:

...

On my core 2 duo machine running SUSE 10.1 I get a lot of key duplication while typing. Using KDE 3.5.1 and still happening with 3.5.5 from opensuse. ... Any one else seeing this?

I saw something similar the other day. I was typing in Pine inside an xterm, and suddenly, a key would repeat for a second even after I had released the key. At that precise instant, Firebird was busy autoreloading a large page with javascript. It happened several times. My system is single cpu, P-IV @ 1800. Using Gnome. Is you are looking at the kernel, my guess would be this settings: Preemption Model (Voluntary Kernel Preemption (Desktop)) ---> Timer frequency (250 HZ) ---> - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFFZ3lstTMYHG2NR9URAr5tAJ0Wni60o5g85Ko3CrYmApFRWgK7IgCeJi9+ zmJCDSVWoBDzMLzHgcOBWLw= =JAA0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

M Harris

26 Nov 26 Nov

06:23

On Thursday 23 November 2006 23:46, John Andersen wrote:

...

Any one else seeing this? Yes... its a problem (to some extent) on every suse distro... but mostly I see it on my laptop ThinkPad R30... but also on the desk... I too notice that turning off auto-repeat takes care of it. It is NOT a keyboard issue... is a timing issue... key-release is not being seen...

-- Kind regards, M Harris <>< -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

John Andersen

06:38

On Saturday 25 November 2006 21:23, M Harris wrote:

...

On Thursday 23 November 2006 23:46, John Andersen wrote:

...
Any one else seeing this?

Yes... its a problem (to some extent) on every suse distro... but mostly I see it on my laptop ThinkPad R30... but also on the desk... I too notice that turning off auto-repeat takes care of it. It is NOT a keyboard issue... is a timing issue... key-release is not being seen...

I think if it were as common as you say more people would be chirping in here. So far, it seems mostly limited to smp machines. I've never seen this on any prior suse release, except sometime around one of the 7.x releases. -- _____________________________________ John Andersen

David Bottrill

09:45

On Sunday 26 November 2006 06:38, John Andersen wrote:

...

On Saturday 25 November 2006 21:23, M Harris wrote:

...
On Thursday 23 November 2006 23:46, John Andersen wrote:

...
Any one else seeing this?

Yes... its a problem (to some extent) on every suse distro... but mostly I see it on my laptop ThinkPad R30... but also on the desk... I too notice that turning off auto-repeat takes care of it. It is NOT a keyboard issue... is a timing issue... key-release is not being seen...

I think if it were as common as you say more people would be chirping in here. So far, it seems mostly limited to smp machines.

I've never seen this on any prior suse release, except sometime around one of the 7.x releases.

I too have this problem with all recent versions of suse. I always assumed it was a problem with my wireless keyboard. Mostly I find it's the "P" key that repeats. -- David Bottrill david@bottrill.org www.bottrill.org Registered Linux user number 330730 Internet Free World Dialup: 683864 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

John Andersen

10:26

On Sunday 26 November 2006 00:45, David Bottrill wrote:

...

I too have this problem with all recent versions of suse. I always assumed it was a problem with my wireless keyboard. Mostly I find it's the "P" key that repeats.

In my case, and Claton's case its any key, at any time. In my case its never restricted to any single key. I can get three different key doubles in the same word, and its not just doubles, I've seen as many as 7 or 8. My keyboard is built in (laptop), but at least you can borrow a ps2 keyboard to test with, maybe it is your P key. Just now running Sabayon Linux live dvd (gentoo derivative) on x86_64 core 2 Duo machine (smp) and finding no duplication of keys at all. -- _____________________________________ John Andersen

Carlos E. R.

10:57

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Saturday 2006-11-25 at 21:38 -0900, John Andersen wrote:

...

I think if it were as common as you say more people would be chirping in here. So far, it seems mostly limited to smp machines.

I said already that I saw that once in my machine, a week ago, and it's not and SMP. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFFaXMntTMYHG2NR9URAhQtAJ9mnE/BB0vwj8eQHwOCyXiioO+7zwCfQGeZ 6loREWiaDzhrqw/TWLPtllU= =3TKr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Sandy Drobic

11:49

Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1

The Saturday 2006-11-25 at 21:38 -0900, John Andersen wrote:

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I think if it were as common as you say more people would be chirping in here. So far, it seems mostly limited to smp machines.

I said already that I saw that once in my machine, a week ago, and it's not and SMP.

Hyperthreading? Sandy -- List replies only please! Please address PMs to: news-reply2 (@) japantest (.) homelinux (.) com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

12:03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Sunday 2006-11-26 at 12:49 +0100, Sandy Drobic wrote:

...

...
I said already that I saw that once in my machine, a week ago, and it's not and SMP.

Hyperthreading?

Nope. Standard plain Pentium IV of 2001 vintage, running at a "mere" 1800MHz. My suspects are around these settings in the kernel: Preemption Model (Voluntary Kernel Preemption (Desktop)) ---> Timer frequency (250 HZ) ---> I say that because others have said that they think it is something in the kernel, and because the instants I saw that problem my firebird was pretty busy redrawing a largish page with javascript. If the system is very busy it may loose interrupts :-? Not really, and the fact would be reported in the kernel log. Something else not attended to? I don't know enough. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD4DBQFFaYKStTMYHG2NR9URAheqAJ0aV/LIx1ifzQ1JAfvDWl0B89cdIACYyZhC R416bUtE8T2CqkTle8PVDA== =+66l -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org