[opensuse] Ejecting a USB memory stick in v11.2

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Stan Goodman

13 Dec 2009 13 Dec '09

00:03

At the moment, there is a memory stick in a USB port in my machine. In "My Computer" (as they say in Windowese), it has a line in the list of storage devices. When I float the mouse cursor over it, a confidence-inspiring message appears, assuring me that I can "Press the right mouse button for more options (such as Mount or Eject)". Pressing the right button does give me a list of things I might do, but neither Mount or Eject (or any synonym) appears. Short of shutting the machine down in order to flush the device's buffer, how does one remove the memory stick? -- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

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David Haller

13 Dec 13 Dec

04:31

Hello, On Sun, 13 Dec 2009, Stan Goodman wrote:

...

At the moment, there is a memory stick in a USB port in my machine. In "My Computer" (as they say in Windowese), it has a line in the list of storage devices. When I float the mouse cursor over it, a confidence-inspiring message appears, assuring me that I can "Press the right mouse button for more options (such as Mount or Eject)".

Pressing the right button does give me a list of things I might do, but neither Mount or Eject (or any synonym) appears. Short of shutting the machine down in order to flush the device's buffer, how does one remove the memory stick?

Open an xterm (or a KDE Konsole or a Gnome-term or ... ) and enter: sync that flushes the buffers. You can also do that device-specifically and with a following unmount by entering eject /dev/sdX where sdX is the device of your USB-Stick. If you don't know the device, enter mount do see a list of mounted devices and their mountpoints. The stick is probably the last entry and should be identifiable from it's mountpoint. Oh, by "enter" I mean above: enter the commands as specified, adapted to your situation (here: sdX would be /dev/sdk or /dev/sdl or even /dev/sdm on my machine ;) And then "run" the entered command by pressing the "Return" or "Enter" key. I'm ignorant of GUI stuff that would do the same things. HTH, -dnh -- The only possible interpretation of any research whatever in the "social sciences" is: some do, some don't. -- Ernest Rutherford -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Teruel de Campo MD

05:52

On Sun, 2009-12-13 at 02:03 +0200, Stan Goodman wrote:

...

Short of shutting the machine down in order to flush the device's buffer, how does one remove the memory stick?

Stan If you click on the <device notifier> plasmoid you will see the usb stick. If you move the cursor to the righ side an upper arrow shows up. Click on it and the usb is umounted. If the device is a dvd, the dvd will be ejected. -=terry=- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Stan Goodman

14 Dec 14 Dec

23:36

At 07:52:54 on Sunday Sunday 13 December 2009, Teruel de Campo MD wrote:

...

If you click on the <device notifier> plasmoid you will see the usb stick. If you move the cursor to the righ side an upper arrow shows up. Click on it and the usb is umounted. If the device is a dvd, the dvd will be ejected.

-=terry=-

I crave indulgence in expressing some of my feelings after investigating the meaning of this welcome advice. To those who wish to flame me, I can only say "it won't help, do your damndest". <rant>The upside is that now I now what the deuce a plasmoid is; before I knoew only that it had something to do with strange magnetic phenomena. Kudos (that starts with a "K") to KDE for giving it a new meaning, without explaining what it is. So a plasmoid is a kind of widget. So I made a Device Notifier, thinking it would be on the panel. But instead, it is placed at an apparently random position on the desktop (not the Desktop Folder, of course. I can see that making a number of them could be used to produce a satisfying mess on the screen. It has two levels of useful commands, but it isn't clear why those are listed under "Plain Desktop", since no other kind of desktop is mentioned. Then I discovered (I don't know how) that the Device Notifier can be attached to the "Desktop Folder". Then I inserted a USB stick, and sure enough the familiar window appeared to ask me what to do with the device: D/L with Digikam, Open with File Manager (it means to say Dolphin; that requires a password for some reason; it is a substitute for "Open a new window" -- why do I need a password for that?), or Do Nothing.By the way, I do not see anything about a USB stick in the Device Notifier. Dolphin is great! On the left side of the window it lists five drives, four of which are identified as "Volume (ext4)". It was too hard to give partition IDs like sda7 or even size, or whether mounted or not. I know that the fifth one is the USB stick, because it is "Volume (vfat)". I am very discouraged, because this monstrosity is filled with changes that are not improvements upon KDE3, but AT BEST simply barriers to a learning curve, and are often clumsy replacements for easy to use procedures, entirely for the sake of introducing new gewgaws. I do not know what the members of the KDE are smoking or drinking, but what they have done is to produce a whore's dream (or nightmare) from a useful and usable, reasonably user-friendly desktop environment. And their excuse is that, since you didn't pay for it, you were never entitled to be polled about your preferences or desires, and you can lump it. That's fascism. In fact, no sane employer would have paid them a salary for turning out something like KDE4. I notice that KDE3 on my other machine still works. Why to abandon it? It should have been offered as an alternative, sorry that it wasn't. My choice is between v11.1 w/KDE3 or v11.2 w?GNOME. KDE4 is out; the past, NOT the future. </rant> -- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Rodney Baker

23:52

On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 10:06:04 Stan Goodman wrote:

...

At 07:52:54 on Sunday Sunday 13 December 2009, Teruel de Campo MD

wrote:

...
If you click on the <device notifier> plasmoid you will see the usb stick. If you move the cursor to the righ side an upper arrow shows up. Click on it and the usb is umounted. If the device is a dvd, the dvd will be ejected.

-=terry=-

[...]

So I made a Device Notifier, thinking it would be on the panel. But instead, it is placed at an apparently random position on the desktop (not the Desktop Folder, of course. I can see that making a number of them could be used to produce a satisfying mess on the screen. It has two levels of useful commands, but it isn't clear why those are listed under "Plain Desktop", since no other kind of desktop is mentioned. Then I discovered (I don't know how) that the Device Notifier can be attached to the "Desktop Folder". [...]

When you have the "add widgets" window open, drag the device notifier widget to the panel instead of just clicking on it. The default action might be to add it to the desktop (or a desktop folder) but you can drag and drop it to wherever you want (including to the panel). Whilst you're at it, why not add a system tray widget to the panel as well - that works pretty much like the system tray in KDE3/WinXP, even hiding inactive icons for you if you so desire. Oh, you can also have a quick launch area as well, for thos apps that you use often (again, drag and drop apps from the menu or the desktop folder). You can make KDE4 work pretty much exactly how you want it; it's just that the semantics of how you achieve that is different from KDE3 (which necessarily flows from changing the toolkit used to build it from Qt3 to Qt4). Remember, KDE4 is a rewrite from scratch, not a development of KDE3. It is, in effect, a completely new desktop. -- =================================================== Rodney Baker VK5ZTV rodney.baker@iinet.net.au =================================================== -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Stan Goodman

15 Dec 15 Dec

08:44

At 01:52:47 on Tuesday Tuesday 15 December 2009, Rodney Baker wrote:

...

On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 10:06:04 Stan Goodman wrote:

...
At 07:52:54 on Sunday Sunday 13 December 2009, Teruel de Campo MD

wrote:

...
If you click on the <device notifier> plasmoid you will see the usb stick. If you move the cursor to the righ side an upper arrow shows up. Click on it and the usb is umounted. If the device is a dvd, the dvd will be ejected.

-=terry=-

[...]

So I made a Device Notifier, thinking it would be on the panel. But instead, it is placed at an apparently random position on the desktop (not the Desktop Folder, of course. I can see that making a number of them could be used to produce a satisfying mess on the screen. It has two levels of useful commands, but it isn't clear why those are listed under "Plain Desktop", since no other kind of desktop is mentioned. Then I discovered (I don't know how) that the Device Notifier can be attached to the "Desktop Folder". [...]

When you have the "add widgets" window open, drag the device notifier widget to the panel instead of just clicking on it. The default action might be to add it to the desktop (or a desktop folder) but you can drag and drop it to wherever you want (including to the panel).

Is this intuitive? Is there any hint that this is what one is intended to do? Or is one expected to get psychic messages from the KDE team?

...

Whilst you're at it, why not add a system tray widget to the panel as well - that works pretty much like the system tray in KDE3/WinXP, even hiding inactive icons for you if you so desire.

Oh, you can also have a quick launch area as well, for thos apps that you use often (again, drag and drop apps from the menu or the desktop folder).

You can make KDE4 work pretty much exactly how you want it; it's just that the semantics of how you achieve that is different from KDE3 (which necessarily flows from changing the toolkit used to build it from Qt3 to Qt4). Remember, KDE4 is a rewrite from scratch, not a development of KDE3. It is, in effect, a completely new desktop.

If you tell me this, I have to believe it. But, as others have said, this is a brand new desktop, not a development of KDE3, and is very different from anything that I know; I am far from convinced that these differences would be significant for me, or that they would contribute to the UTILITY that I would derive from openSuSE. I was told yesterday that the very different structure was forced upon KDE because the programming framework is different; why was it necessary to employ a framework that implied a fundamental change and otherwise unnecessary load of inconvenience on users? Does anybody at KDE even think about users? Did KDE think to poll users to learn if they thought KDE was needful of a fundamental overhaul? Why not? I am not able or prepared to devote a lot of (unnecessary) time to learning its ins and outs, making mistakes and puzzling out why they happened, when I had a perfectly adequate desktop that took me quite a lot of time to learn. I do, after all, have a lot to do just to survive and deal with life. I do not know how others manage the enormous demands on their time for the learning curve. I can't manage it, and I resent having the necessity forced upon me in a dictatorial fashion. -- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Rodney Baker

16 Dec 16 Dec

04:09

On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 19:14:01 Stan Goodman wrote:

...

At 01:52:47 on Tuesday Tuesday 15 December 2009, Rodney Baker

wrote:

...
On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 10:06:04 Stan Goodman wrote:

...
At 07:52:54 on Sunday Sunday 13 December 2009, Teruel de Campo MD

wrote:

...
If you click on the <device notifier> plasmoid you will see the usb stick. If you move the cursor to the righ side an upper arrow shows up. Click on it and the usb is umounted. If the device is a dvd, the dvd will be ejected.

-=terry=-

[...]

So I made a Device Notifier, thinking it would be on the panel. But instead, it is placed at an apparently random position on the desktop (not the Desktop Folder, of course. I can see that making a number of them could be used to produce a satisfying mess on the screen. It has two levels of useful commands, but it isn't clear why those are listed under "Plain Desktop", since no other kind of desktop is mentioned. Then I discovered (I don't know how) that the Device Notifier can be attached to the "Desktop Folder". [...]

When you have the "add widgets" window open, drag the device notifier widget to the panel instead of just clicking on it. The default action might be to add it to the desktop (or a desktop folder) but you can drag and drop it to wherever you want (including to the panel).

Is this intuitive? Is there any hint that this is what one is intended to do? Or is one expected to get psychic messages from the KDE team? [...]

Actually it was the first thing I tried when I wanted to make it work. I usually only try other methods when "drag'n'drop" doesn't work (but maybe I think differently and have different expectations of user interfaces than you do, which is fine, by the way - different strokes for different folks, so to speak). -- =================================================== Rodney Baker VK5ZTV rodney.baker@iinet.net.au =================================================== -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Patrick Shanahan

15 Dec 15 Dec

01:15

* Stan Goodman [12-14-09 18:38]:

...

I crave indulgence in expressing some of my feelings after investigating the meaning of this welcome advice. To those who wish to flame me, I can only say "it won't help, do your damndest".

Apparently, flaming would be unnoticed as you apparently spend some time asking questions but little reading the content posted here! ....

...

I am very discouraged, because this monstrosity is filled with changes that are not improvements upon KDE3, but AT BEST simply barriers to a learning curve, and are often clumsy replacements for easy to use procedures, entirely for the sake of introducing new gewgaws. I do not know what the members of the KDE are smoking or drinking, but what they have done is to produce a whore's dream (or nightmare) from a useful and usable, reasonably user-friendly desktop environment. And their excuse is that, since you didn't pay for it, you were never entitled to be polled about your preferences or desires, and you can lump it. That's fascism. In fact, no sane employer would have paid them a salary for turning out something like KDE4.

As I stated above, you post questions but do not read the list. If you wish enlightenment, consult the archives, then repost questions. -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Stan Goodman

09:08

At 03:15:48 on Tuesday Tuesday 15 December 2009, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...

* Stan Goodman [12-14-09 18:38]:

...
I crave indulgence in expressing some of my feelings after investigating the meaning of this welcome advice. To those who wish to flame me, I can only say "it won't help, do your damndest".

Apparently, flaming would be unnoticed as you apparently spend some time asking questions but little reading the content posted here!

There is something to that. I scan the subject lines of the daily crop of messages from this group and several others -- some hundreds of messages every day. I envy you if you can cope with reading all of that mass. I confess, I do have other fish to fry.

...

...
I am very discouraged, because this monstrosity is filled with changes that are not improvements upon KDE3, but AT BEST simply barriers to a learning curve, and are often clumsy replacements for easy to use procedures, entirely for the sake of introducing new gewgaws. I do not know what the members of the KDE are smoking or drinking, but what they have done is to produce a whore's dream (or nightmare) from a useful and usable, reasonably user-friendly desktop environment. And their excuse is that, since you didn't pay for it, you were never entitled to be polled about your preferences or desires, and you can lump it. That's fascism. In fact, no sane employer would have paid them a salary for turning out something like KDE4.

As I stated above, you post questions but do not read the list. If you wish enlightenment, consult the archives, then repost questions.

-- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org

-- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Sven Burmeister

08:16

Am Dienstag, 15. Dezember 2009 00:36:04 schrieb Stan Goodman:

...

I am very discouraged, because this monstrosity is filled with changes that are not improvements upon KDE3, but AT BEST simply barriers to a learning curve, and are often clumsy replacements for easy to use procedures, entirely for the sake of introducing new gewgaws. I do not know what the members of the KDE are smoking or drinking, but what they have done is to produce a whore's dream (or nightmare) from a useful and usable, reasonably user-friendly desktop environment. And their excuse is that, since you didn't pay for it, you were never entitled to be polled about your preferences or desires, and you can lump it. That's fascism.

Using the word "fascism" in this context is really wrong to say it politely! Did you even think what you imply regarding those that took part in the process/project you call "fascism" are KDE4 devs fascist for you? Nobody has to excuse himself for spending his free time to create something you chose to use. Further the sysinfo:/ where you could get the right-click to eject was not part of KDE3 but an openSUSE patch. Yet if I consider the attitude in your text, explanations are not what you are looking for in the first place. Sven -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Stan Goodman

09:03

At 10:16:13 on Tuesday Tuesday 15 December 2009, Sven Burmeister wrote:

...

Am Dienstag, 15. Dezember 2009 00:36:04 schrieb Stan Goodman:

...
I am very discouraged, because this monstrosity is filled with changes that are not improvements upon KDE3, but AT BEST simply barriers to a learning curve, and are often clumsy replacements for easy to use procedures, entirely for the sake of introducing new gewgaws. I do not know what the members of the KDE are smoking or drinking, but what they have done is to produce a whore's dream (or nightmare) from a useful and usable, reasonably user-friendly desktop environment. And their excuse is that, since you didn't pay for it, you were never entitled to be polled about your preferences or desires, and you can lump it. That's fascism.

Using the word "fascism" in this context is really wrong to say it politely! Did you even think what you imply regarding those that took part in the process/project you call "fascism" are KDE4 devs fascist for you?

I do indeed. And I stand by what I wrote. Counter-question: Do you ever think of what your users would prefer? Apparently not. Once you are in a monopoly position in the Linux world (one of only two major desktop options, and hitherto the most attractive), many people might argue that you have a moral responsibility to your users -- at a minimum, to inquire about their preferences.. Apparently you do not. Was the switch to a different programming technology forced upon you? Or did it seem like great fun to give it a whirl, and users be damned.

...

Nobody has to excuse himself for spending his free time to create something you chose to use.

I have read those words from you many times, and I have expressed my opinion about them before, and in my paragraph just above. I do not believe that my opinion is unusual in the user community, but of course, you are entitled to your own opinion too. Free choice, you know. Personally, I think your stance is arrogant.

...

Further the sysinfo:/ where you could get the right-click to eject was not part of KDE3 but an openSUSE patch. Yet if I consider the attitude in your text, explanations are not what you are looking for in the first place.

openSuSE can goof too. They don't make a habit of it. -- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Basil Chupin

09:41

On 15/12/09 20:03, Stan Goodman wrote:

...

At 10:16:13 on Tuesday Tuesday 15 December 2009, Sven Burmeister wrote:

...
Am Dienstag, 15. Dezember 2009 00:36:04 schrieb Stan Goodman:

...
I am very discouraged, because this monstrosity is filled with changes that are not improvements upon KDE3, but AT BEST simply barriers to a learning curve, and are often clumsy replacements for easy to use procedures, entirely for the sake of introducing new gewgaws. I do not know what the members of the KDE are smoking or drinking, but what they have done is to produce a whore's dream (or nightmare) from a useful and usable, reasonably user-friendly desktop environment. And their excuse is that, since you didn't pay for it, you were never entitled to be polled about your preferences or desires, and you can lump it. That's fascism.

Using the word "fascism" in this context is really wrong to say it politely! Did you even think what you imply regarding those that took part in the process/project you call "fascism" are KDE4 devs fascist for you?

I do indeed. And I stand by what I wrote.

Counter-question: Do you ever think of what your users would prefer? Apparently not. Once you are in a monopoly position in the Linux world (one of only two major desktop options, and hitherto the most attractive), many people might argue that you have a moral responsibility to your users -- at a minimum, to inquire about their preferences.. Apparently you do not. Was the switch to a different programming technology forced upon you? Or did it seem like great fun to give it a whirl, and users be damned.

...
Nobody has to excuse himself for spending his free time to create something you chose to use.

I have read those words from you many times, and I have expressed my opinion about them before, and in my paragraph just above. I do not believe that my opinion is unusual in the user community, but of course, you are entitled to your own opinion too. Free choice, you know. Personally, I think your stance is arrogant.

"Onya"! (OZ slang. For others it means, "Goodonya!") (An accompanying kick to the head wouldn't go astray either. Are you up to it? :-D ) BC -- If you don't succeed you run the risk of failure. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Sven Burmeister

09:59

Am Dienstag, 15. Dezember 2009 10:03:16 schrieb Stan Goodman:

...

At 10:16:13 on Tuesday Tuesday 15 December 2009, Sven Burmeister

wrote:

...
Am Dienstag, 15. Dezember 2009 00:36:04 schrieb Stan Goodman:

...
I am very discouraged, because this monstrosity is filled with changes that are not improvements upon KDE3, but AT BEST simply barriers to a learning curve, and are often clumsy replacements for easy to use procedures, entirely for the sake of introducing new gewgaws. I do not know what the members of the KDE are smoking or drinking, but what they have done is to produce a whore's dream (or nightmare) from a useful and usable, reasonably user-friendly desktop environment. And their excuse is that, since you didn't pay for it, you were never entitled to be polled about your preferences or desires, and you can lump it. That's fascism.

Using the word "fascism" in this context is really wrong to say it politely! Did you even think what you imply regarding those that took part in the process/project you call "fascism" are KDE4 devs fascist for you?

I do indeed. And I stand by what I wrote.

...

...
Nobody has to excuse himself for spending his free time to create something you chose to use.

I have read those words from you many times, and I have expressed my opinion about them before, and in my paragraph just above. I do not believe that my opinion is unusual in the user community, but of course, you are entitled to your own opinion too. Free choice, you know. Personally, I think your stance is arrogant.

Arrogant? From somebody who calls KDE devs fascists? I hope you don't mind if I don't care too much about that opinion. If the majority thinks like your regarding KDE4 its community will decrease. Time will tell. My bet is on it increasing. Sven -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

John E. Perry

14:02

Stan Goodman wrote:

...

...a lot of perfectly silly bullcrap...

I do indeed. And I stand by what I wrote.

Counter-question: Do you ever think of what your users would prefer?

Someone on this list has frequently quoted a comment from Steve Jobs very appropriate to this sneer. Even more appropriate to the more general issue is the repeated comment from kde developers that further development of kde 3 had become too difficult due to a mass of legacy code and antique programming methodology that made development unmanageable.

...

Apparently not. Once you are in a monopoly position in the Linux world (one of only two major desktop options, and hitherto the most attractive), many people might argue that you have a moral responsibility to your users -- at a minimum, to inquire about their preferences.. Apparently you do not. Was the switch to a different programming technology forced upon you? Or did it seem like great fun to give it a whirl, and users be damned.

In fact, many of us users prefer kde4 now that it's settling down and we're getting used to it. So we can properly call you an ignorant naysayer and tell you to be damned?

...

...
Nobody has to excuse himself for spending his free time to create something you chose to use.

I have read those words from you many times, and I have expressed my opinion about them before, and in my paragraph just above. I do not believe that my opinion is unusual in the user community, but of course, you are entitled to your own opinion too. Free choice, you know. Personally, I think your stance is arrogant.

And I think yours is arrogant. Neither having contributed to the project, nor even taken the trouble (by your own admission!) to read the long string of discussions on this matter, you assume the prerogative to sneer at others' hard work to modernize and improve it, just because it's different and you've not bothered to look seriously at the question, or even to try to understand their concerns!

...

...
Further the sysinfo:/ where you could get the right-click to eject was not part of KDE3 but an openSUSE patch. Yet if I consider the attitude in your text, explanations are not what you are looking for in the first place.

openSuSE can goof too. They don't make a habit of it.

openSuSE didn't goof, except maybe in making kde4 the default install before it was really ready. Time will tell whether kde has goofed, but it all seems to be coming down on their side, and I for one am glad of it. I was writing code before modern windowing was more than a glimmer in the back of some Xerox scientists' minds; I've followed it since it became public knowledge due to Steve Jobs's pilfering the concepts for his ill-fated Lisa after a visit to their research facility. I heartily approve of every advance in windowing since then, and enjoy its tremendous advantages in ease of use over the antique methods I started out with. Including rational uses of the "eye-candy" and "bling". John Perry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Tony Alfrey

14:22

John E. Perry wrote:

...

openSuSE didn't goof, except maybe in making kde4 the default install before it was really ready. Time will tell whether kde has goofed, but it all seems to be coming down on their side, and I for one am glad of it.

I was writing code before modern windowing was more than a glimmer in the back of some Xerox scientists' minds; I've followed it since it became public knowledge due to Steve Jobs's pilfering the concepts for his ill-fated Lisa after a visit to their research facility.

Since you mention Mr. Jobs, you might consider what would have happened at Apple had the release of, say OS X 10.4, looked and acted like the first OpenSuSE release with kde 4. -- Tony Alfrey tonyalfrey@earthlink.net "I'd Rather Be Sailing" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

John E. Perry

14:41

Tony Alfrey wrote:

...

John E. Perry wrote:

...
openSuSE didn't goof, except maybe in making kde4 the default install

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

...
before it was really ready. ...

Since you mention Mr. Jobs, you might consider what would have happened at Apple had the release of, say OS X 10.4, looked and acted like the first OpenSuSE release with kde 4.

It appears to me we agree, except that I can understand the comment of one of the suse developers early in the discussion that "if you don't push it out there, no one will use it and you'll never find out what the problems are", or words to that effect. I think it worked. I, like many others, suffered from that action, but I can understand it. Just as many suffered from Apple's release of Lisa before the technology was really ready -- but Lisa made Macintosh possible. So Apple did in fact ... :-) jp -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Rodney Baker

16 Dec 16 Dec

04:13

On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 01:11:22 John E. Perry wrote:

...

Tony Alfrey wrote:

...
John E. Perry wrote:

...
openSuSE didn't goof, except maybe in making kde4 the default install

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

...
...
before it was really ready. ...

Since you mention Mr. Jobs, you might consider what would have happened at Apple had the release of, say OS X 10.4, looked and acted like the first OpenSuSE release with kde 4.

It appears to me we agree, except that I can understand the comment of one of the suse developers early in the discussion that "if you don't push it out there, no one will use it and you'll never find out what the problems are", or words to that effect. I think it worked. [...]

That's the M$ method - call it a release and push it out so that users can beta test it for you... ;-) -- =================================================== Rodney Baker VK5ZTV rodney.baker@iinet.net.au =================================================== -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Rodney Baker

04:19

On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 14:43:56 Rodney Baker wrote:

...

On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 01:11:22 John E. Perry wrote:

...
Tony Alfrey wrote:

...
John E. Perry wrote:

...
openSuSE didn't goof, except maybe in making kde4 the default install

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

...
...
before it was really ready. ...

Since you mention Mr. Jobs, you might consider what would have happened at Apple had the release of, say OS X 10.4, looked and acted like the first OpenSuSE release with kde 4.

It appears to me we agree, except that I can understand the comment of one of the suse developers early in the discussion that "if you don't push it out there, no one will use it and you'll never find out what the problems are", or words to that effect. I think it worked. [...]

That's the M$ method - call it a release and push it out so that users can beta test it for you...

;-)

Oh, but I forgot one important difference - with M$ users actually pay for the privilege of being the beta testers... -- =================================================== Rodney Baker VK5ZTV rodney.baker@iinet.net.au =================================================== -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Clayton

15 Dec 15 Dec

08:32

...

So I made a Device Notifier, thinking it would be on the panel.

Ummm.. has anyone asked the question... why doesn't Stan have the Device Notifier ALREADY in his KDE4 panel? It's there by *default*... unless you remove it from your default KDE4 panel. One simple way to get back to the default setup is to remove the panel at the bottom of your screen... then right click to add a new panel and select the default from the options (default or blank). Then the Device Notifier is included in the panel, and you should find it on the right hand side where the KMenu is, along with the Firefox icon etc. You can of course move it around if you want.. I put mine on the right side of the panel next to the clock. Then, whenever you plug in a USB key, this notifier will pop up from the panel and behave as everyone is describing. When you want to eject a USB key, you click the notifier, click the eject button in the notifier, and when it's ready to be removed, the Notifier icon changes to a green checkmark. Adding a Device Notifier manually is NOT how you should be working with it... and especially you should not use it on the desktop... as pointed out this adds very unnecessary clutter. Because the Desktop Notifier is a plasmoid, it can be used on the Desktop as any other plasmoid (as you discovered)... as a floating object, attached to various places... but a lot of that potential is not so useful since the Notifier doesn't work as efficiently in the other positions... it's really designed to be in the panel.

...

four of which are identified as "Volume (ext4)". It was too hard to give partition IDs like sda7 or even size, or whether mounted or not. I know that the fifth one is the USB stick, because it is "Volume (vfat)".

Agreed... the descriptions here are not so useful... room for improvement.

...

that are not improvements upon KDE3, but AT BEST simply barriers to a learning curve, and are often clumsy replacements for easy to use

Aw come on.. it's not hard to use. I'm an old fart, and I made the transition to KDE4 quite easily (and I use it for my job... I need a working desktop)... When I go back to KDE3 it feels old and dated.. and is missing a lot of the new features I've already become accustomed to in KDE4. You've just got frustrated.. and it's probably 99% your own doing... like the Device Notifier. It is there BY DEFAULT... you should NOT have to add it manually. If it's missing on your desktop then you removed it yourself or there is something broken in your config. C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Sven Burmeister

10:02

Am Dienstag, 15. Dezember 2009 09:32:52 schrieb Clayton:

...

...
that are not improvements upon KDE3, but AT BEST simply barriers to a learning curve, and are often clumsy replacements for easy to use

Aw come on.. it's not hard to use. I'm an old fart, and I made the transition to KDE4 quite easily (and I use it for my job... I need a working desktop)... When I go back to KDE3 it feels old and dated.. and is missing a lot of the new features I've already become accustomed to in KDE4. You've just got frustrated.. and it's probably 99% your own doing... like the Device Notifier. It is there BY DEFAULT... you should NOT have to add it manually. If it's missing on your desktop then you removed it yourself or there is something broken in your config.

The big difference between people and how they work is not due to age but only mental flexibility and attitude towards changes. Sven -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Felix Miata

18:01

On 2009/12/15 11:02 (GMT+0100) Sven Burmeister composed:

...

The big difference between people and how they work is not due to age but only mental flexibility and attitude towards changes.

Exactly. I'm not as old a fart as Stan, but we old farts are in a class where mental flexibility cannot be assumed. Some people are luckier than others. Those less lucky stick with what they understand out of necessity, and learn new paradigms less easily, if at all. Forcing us inflexible types to "upgrade" to a rebuilt from scratch DTE with wholesale paradigm changes and minimal resemblance to the familiar is no small problem that we did not invite. "We" didn't upgrade out of a choice to get the latest &/or greatest. "We" upgraded out of necessity, among the reasons: 1-old OS version dropped from "support", and its update repos disappeared 2-old HD died, taking with it the NLS OS and installed updates 3-old puter broke; req'd hdw support missing in familiar version for newer hdw 4-printer broke, and the new one wasn't supported by the available older drivers Newer isn't necessarily better. Stan, like me, came to Linux from OS/2. Unlike Stan, I've not yet completely left it, e.g. writing this with SeaMonkey on eCS. Stan was _probably_ forced to leave OS/2 due to death of old hardware, combined with difficulty getting OS/2 installed on modern hardware using his attenuated mental flexibility; or need for USB devices lacking OS/2 support (printer makers seem to have forgotten what an LPT port is). Like Stan, and many KDE3 users, I understand the value of "just works", and cringe when I hear buzzwords like "dated" or "feels old" or new words like "plasmoid" as justification to abandon the tried, trusted & familiar. IBM tried to kill OS/2, and guess what, it still lives on more than two decades after its birth as eComStation 2.0RCsilver. KDE3 users just haven't yet AFAIK had the luck of OS/2 users in finding a Serenity Systems parallel. Their hands haven't yet been sufficiently forced. The die hards still have optional repos to fall back on, and in probably most cases 11.0 & 11.1 users can resist the urge to "upgrade". Plus, some have bought more time with the Oct 09 CentOS release or Lenny. -- " We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion." John Adams, 2nd US President Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Stan Goodman

21:49

At 20:01:23 on Tuesday Tuesday 15 December 2009, Felix Miata wrote:

...

On 2009/12/15 11:02 (GMT+0100) Sven Burmeister composed:

...
The big difference between people and how they work is not due to age but only mental flexibility and attitude towards changes.

Exactly. I'm not as old a fart as Stan, but we old farts are in a class

Thank you, Felix.

...

where mental flexibility cannot be assumed. Some people are luckier than others. Those less lucky stick with what they understand out of necessity, and learn new paradigms less easily, if at all.

Forcing us inflexible types to "upgrade" to a rebuilt from scratch DTE with wholesale paradigm changes and minimal resemblance to the familiar is no small problem that we did not invite. "We" didn't upgrade out of a choice to get the latest &/or greatest. "We" upgraded out of necessity, among the reasons:

1-old OS version dropped from "support", and its update repos disappeared 2-old HD died, taking with it the NLS OS and installed updates 3-old puter broke; req'd hdw support missing in familiar version for newer hdw 4-printer broke, and the new one wasn't supported by the available older drivers

Newer isn't necessarily better. Stan, like me, came to Linux from OS/2. Unlike Stan, I've not yet completely left it, e.g. writing this with SeaMonkey on eCS.

Stan was _probably_ forced to leave OS/2 due to death of old hardware, combined with difficulty getting OS/2 installed on modern hardware using his attenuated mental flexibility; or need for USB devices

What are you doing, Felix?

...

lacking OS/2 support (printer makers seem to have forgotten what an LPT port is).

Like Stan, and many KDE3 users, I understand the value of "just works", and cringe when I hear buzzwords like "dated" or "feels old" or new words like "plasmoid" as justification to abandon the tried, trusted & familiar.

IBM tried to kill OS/2, and guess what, it still lives on more than two decades after its birth as eComStation 2.0RCsilver. KDE3 users just haven't yet AFAIK had the luck of OS/2 users in finding a Serenity Systems parallel. Their hands haven't yet been sufficiently forced. The die hards still have optional repos to fall back on, and in probably most cases 11.0 & 11.1 users can resist the urge to "upgrade". Plus, some have bought more time with the Oct 09 CentOS release or Lenny. -- " We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion." John Adams, 2nd US President

Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409

Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/

Disclaimer: My rejoinders to Felix's remarks above are made in the spirit of humor and fun, I have had a good laugh at the truth. Thanks, Mr Mazda. But in more seriousness, I have been reminded in an off-forum email that Novell promotes the freebie openSuSE as a laboratory and test bed for its lucrative commercial product, partly to weed out excessively ebullient attempts to push the envelope, aka The Bleeding Edge. I would be very surprised if someone back there in Salt Lake City isn't assessing the user reaction to the advent of KDE4, and I would not bet money that the "New and Improved Desktop of the Future" will make it into the product that has to be sold to paying customers that have their own bottom line to consider. Here, it's "We created it, like it; you can like it or lump it". Two years from now in SuSE, KDE4 may be a very different and more user-friendly creature -- after undergoing some of the customer research eschewed by (no names, please). At that point, we may have a much more usable desktop here too. -- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Rodney Baker

16 Dec 16 Dec

04:29

On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 04:31:23 Felix Miata wrote:

...

[...] Newer isn't necessarily better. Stan, like me, came to Linux from OS/2. [...]

Hey - me too (but I don't yet consider myself an old fart, although maybe my kids do ;-) ). The first version of Linux I tried was Red Hat v2.0. Unfortunately my OS/2 Warp 4 CD got damaged, otherwise I'd probably still have it installed somewhere. OS/2 was also used as the main OS on all the desktops and file server for a company I used to work for and I reckon they've still got an old OS/2 v3 fax server running for their network fax service... How good would it be if someone could do a port of the Workplace Shell that would run on Linux? Now *there* was a useful desktop environment... -- =================================================== Rodney Baker VK5ZTV rodney.baker@iinet.net.au =================================================== -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Felix Miata

07:37

New subject: [opensuse] OT - OS/2 [was: ejecting...]

On 2009/12/16 14:59 (GMT+1030) Rodney Baker composed:

...

Felix Miata wrote:

...

...
Newer isn't necessarily better. Stan, like me, came to Linux from OS/2.

...

Hey - me too (but I don't yet consider myself an old fart, although maybe my kids do ;-) ).

If you know of no restaurants where you qualify for a senior citizen discount, you're not there yet - unless you never visit restaurants, in which case you'd make the cut by qualifying for geriatric specials from auto clubs, banks, or brokers, among others, or by a certificate of attendance from your 40th high school reunion. :-)

...

The first version of Linux I tried was Red Hat v2.0. Unfortunately my OS/2 Warp 4 CD got damaged, otherwise I'd probably still have it installed somewhere.

There's no way to install from an original Warp CD on a HD of more than 1024 "cylinders". http://www.updcd.tk/ provides a way to make a CD from it that will work. If you bring your damaged CD to a local OS/2 user group you could probably get someone to give you a good copy of the original or their UPDCD.

...

How good would it be if someone could do a port of the Workplace Shell that would run on Linux? Now *there* was a useful desktop environment...

Still might happen: http://wiki.netlabs.org/index.php/Voyager_FAQ -- " We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion." John Adams, 2nd US President Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Sven Burmeister

15 Dec 15 Dec

08:01

Am Sonntag, 13. Dezember 2009 06:52:54 schrieb Teruel de Campo MD:

...

On Sun, 2009-12-13 at 02:03 +0200, Stan Goodman wrote:

...
Short of shutting the machine down in order to flush the device's buffer, how does one remove the memory stick?

...

If you click on the <device notifier> plasmoid you will see the usb stick. If you move the cursor to the righ side an upper arrow shows up. Click on it and the usb is umounted. If the device is a dvd, the dvd will be ejected.

If one right-clicks the stick's icon in dolphin (places pane) one can unmount it too. Sven -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

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11 participants

participants (11)

Basil Chupin
Clayton
David Haller
Felix Miata
John E. Perry
Patrick Shanahan
Rodney Baker
Stan Goodman
Sven Burmeister
Teruel de Campo MD
Tony Alfrey