On Monday 31 March 2008 00:47:20 Sandy Drobic wrote:

Stan Goodman wrote:

...

I would be grateful for advice about backup software appropriate for my situation, and for remarks people using such utilities, including what to avoid. I can see that there are several packages available through YaST, but it would be helpful to know what others think about them and about relative advantages.

I have only one Linux system here, so network capability is not important. I do not have a tape drive, but would be read carefully any remarks about whether I need one. If not, then it would have to be something capable of bridging DVDs for a total backup, and probably CDs for incremental backup.

Use a second hdd and rsnapshot. It is cheap, reliable, effective, will give redundant backups and you can run it as a cronjob, meaning that you won't have to do it manually.

The initial setup is rather straight-forward.

What software do you suggest for doing this? That is what is foremost on my mind at this stage. -- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Sunday 30 March 2008 03:26:30 pm Harald Mueller-Ney wrote:

...

...

Use a second hdd and rsnapshot. It is cheap, reliable, effective, will give redundant backups and you can run it as a cronjob, meaning that you won't have to do it manually.

The initial setup is rather straight-forward.

What software do you suggest for doing this? That is what is foremost on my mind at this stage.

rsnapshot is a software: http://www.rsnapshot.org/

--------------------------------------------------------------------------- rsnapshot is a filesystem snapshot utility for making backups of local and remote systems.

very cool would one need to log in as root to back up the users' files without any locks? -- kai www.filesite.org || www.4thedadz.com || www.perfectreign.com remember - a turn signal is a statement, not a request -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Stan Goodman wrote:

...

Use a second hdd and rsnapshot. It is cheap, reliable, effective, will ^^^^^^^^^ give redundant backups and you can run it as a cronjob, meaning that you won't have to do it manually.

...

The initial setup is rather straight-forward.

What software do you suggest for doing this? That is what is foremost on my mind at this stage.

hmmm, rsnapshot ?? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rsync http://www.rsnapshot.org/ Or got google restricted nowadays? ;-P -- All the best, Peter J. P-N. aedon DESIGNS >> http://www.aedon.selfip.com/ openSUSE 10.3 x86_64, fully updated + KDE:KDE3 buildservice, customized for picture manipulation and multimedia on desktop. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Stan Goodman wrote:

What software do you suggest for doing this? That is what is foremost on my mind at this stage.

Hi Stan, I've had good luck with rdiff-backup. It's in the main SuSE repository and is easy to install. I've used it both for disk-to-disk backups on the same machine and for remote-server pulls using ssh. I've even used it for backing up Windows boxes using smbfs to mount their exported "folders", then rdiff-backup to a local hard disk. Runs fine from cron. Regards, Lew Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Stan Goodman wrote:

On Monday 31 March 2008 00:47:20 Sandy Drobic wrote:

...

Stan Goodman wrote:

...

I would be grateful for advice about backup software appropriate for my situation, and for remarks people using such utilities, including what to avoid. I can see that there are several packages available through YaST, but it would be helpful to know what others think about them and about relative advantages.

I have only one Linux system here, so network capability is not important. I do not have a tape drive, but would be read carefully any remarks about whether I need one. If not, then it would have to be something capable of bridging DVDs for a total backup, and probably CDs for incremental backup. Use a second hdd and rsnapshot. It is cheap, reliable, effective, will give redundant backups and you can run it as a cronjob, meaning that you won't have to do it manually.

The initial setup is rather straight-forward.

What software do you suggest for doing this? That is what is foremost on my mind at this stage.

Stan, At home I have an old file server running 10.0 and all you need is rsync that is already installed on your system. I just back up the data I need to protect. Mostly family pictures and family videos, etc... as well as my /home directory where all the stuff I have squirreled away over the years sits. I also have the home server pull a remote copy of my office files to provide a remote backup in case the building burns down. I do it this way: The server in question spins 3 250G drives with sda being the drive with the OS install and the primary copy of the data. I use rsync to pull from the office and then use rsync again to mirror the data to sdb and sdc (triple redundant). At the office I do the same thing with local mirrors there as well. There is nothing special about this other than it works for me. The way I set up rsync is to set up a primary script that calls rsync which then reads a second file to get a list of directories to back up. That way I just add or delete files I want backed up in the second file. The primary rsync script for local backup, named "rsynclocal", is - are you ready: #!/bin/bash rsync -avr --files-from=/home/david/Documents/scripts/localfiles / /data/storage/local rsync -av --delete /home/samba/computer /data/storage (There are only 2 lines in case word wrap breaks it) The first rsync call says "-avr" (a) copy and preserve file and directory user and ownership, (v) verbose output (so I see what took place in my email from cron) (r) ** required for recursive copy WHEN reading input files from a second file. Normally (a) implies recursive EXCEPT when sourcing input from a second file. The "--files-from=/home/david/Documents/scripts/localfiles" says read what to copy from that file. The "/" says use the root directory as the base for the file and directories contained in "localfiles" and "/data/storage/local" says use that as the base for the target locations where the files and directories will be copied to. sdb is mounted as /data/media sdc is mounted as /data/storage The contents of "localfiles" is simply: /home/david/Documents /home/samba/egw3111 Which is just says take my Documents directory and the second directory and back them up. The second line with --delete included in the command line just says do the backup as normal, but delete any files at the backup location that I have deleted from the primary data files. The second script I have for the photos and videos is simply: #!/bin/bash rsync -avr --files-from=/home/david/Documents/scripts/mediafiles / /data/storage/ Where media files is currently: /data/media Here we are simply mirroring the photos and videos on sdb (/data/media) to sdc (/data/storage). In its present form, there is no reason to have it split as it would be simpler just to do it all from the rsyncmedia script, but I never know where my wife is going to save pictures to so I keep the flexibility. In my opinion for local or remote backup, rsync is the only way to go. It's fast as heck, supports file differencing (this allows the 8 Gig I backup from work to be checked and pulled over a 256K upstream connection in about 10 minutes or less because it is only pulling the changed portions of files that averages 10-20 meg per day. rsync is well documented and put out by the same folks that give us samba. (see http://rsync.samba.org/ ) With just a little or no effort and a little time to learn, you can set up a backup scheme for anything in minutes. cron runs the whole operation from simple entries in "crontab -e" (I use root's crontab to avoid any permission problems) The crontab entries are simply: 0 4 * * * /home/david/Documents/scripts/rsyncwork 15 4 * * * /home/david/Documents/scripts/rsynclocal 30 4 * * * /home/david/Documents/scripts/rsyncmedia I still use the same old script for pulling the work files that I put together years ago before I had a clue about shell programming (it will be apparent from the file). I use secure key authentication to automate to remote login/data exchange. The script I use for work, that has basic logging and produces a brief email to me is (for the sake of completeness): #!/bin/bash DATE=`date` echo $DATE >> /home/david/rsync.log echo --- starting backup of workfiles >> /home/david/rsync.log echo --- the work files to be backed up are: >> /home/david/rsync.log cat /home/david/Documents/scripts/workfiles >> /home/david/rsync.log #if /usr/bin/rsync -rze ssh --delete --files-from=/home/david/Documents/scripts/workfiles david@rbpllc.com:/home/samba/ /home/samba/law if /usr/bin/rsync -arze ssh --delete --files-from=/home/david/Documents/scripts/workfiles david@rbpllc.com:/home/samba/ /home/samba/law then echo .... Rankin Law Firm backup ------------- [OK] >> /home/david/rsync.log DATE=`date` echo .... Backup completed at $DATE >> /home/david/rsync.log # echo Backup complete at `date` on nemesis | mail -s "backup complete on `date`" david@nemesis else echo .... Rankin Law Firm backup ------------- [Failed] >> /home/david/rsync.log DATE=`date` echo .... Backup failed at $DATE >> /home/david/rsync.log # echo Backup failed at `date` on nemesis | mail -s "backup failed on `date`" david@nemesis fi echo --- starting backup of work web site files >> /home/david/rsync.log echo --- the web site files to be backed up are: >> /home/david/rsync.log cat /home/david/Documents/scripts/workwebfiles >> /home/david/rsync.log if /usr/bin/rsync -aze ssh --delete david@rbpllc.com:/srv/www/vhosts /home/david/Documents/bonza_backup/srv/www then echo .... Web Site backup ------------- [OK] >> /home/david/rsync.log DATE=`date` echo .... Backup completed at $DATE >> /home/david/rsync.log # echo Backup complete at `date` on nemesis | mail -s "backup complete on `date`" david@nemesis else echo .... Web Site backup ------------- [Failed] >> /home/david/rsync.log DATE=`date` echo .... Backup failed at $DATE >> /home/david/rsync.log # echo Backup failed at `date` on nemesis | mail -s "backup failed on `date`" david@nemesis fi echo --- starting backup of david/Mail >> /home/david/rsync.log if /usr/bin/rsync -aze ssh --delete david@rbpllc.com:/home/david/Mail/ /home/david/Documents/bonza_backup/Mail then echo .... david/Mail backup ------------- [OK] >> /home/david/rsync.log DATE=`date` echo .... Backup completed at $DATE >> /home/david/rsync.log # echo Backup complete at `date` on nemesis | mail -s "backup complete on `date`" david@nemesis else echo .... david/Mail backup ------------- [Failed] >> /home/david/rsync.log DATE=`date` echo .... Backup failed at $DATE >> /home/david/rsync.log # echo Backup failed at `date` on nemesis | mail -s "backup failed on `date`" david@nemesis fi The workfiles are simply: office rankin joint/rankinguillory joint/rankinbertin joint/rankinallen joint/rga forms computer/hardware computer/software closed/rankin closed/rb closed/rg egwfiles/backup egwfiles/mydms scans and workweb files are: bertin drr rlf txu As you can see, rsync can be a basic or robust as you want to make it and it is absolutely simple to learn. Just play with rsync from the command line until you have it doing what you want and then just throw the working command line in a script file and add a crontab entry and you are done. Just check you email the next day for the warm fuzzy that it worked and then forget about it. Burn a DVD or two every so often to prevent against the worst and your done. The only addition I would make to what I do is to add a line or two that bzips a current snapshot of the backup in case the primary copy of the data got fried and it daisy chained through the rsync system corrupting the backup copies as well. That's what the DVD's you burned of the data are for. Now that I'm thinking about it, I guess I better go burn a couple DVD's. Have fun. -- David C. Rankin, J.D., P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Sandy Drobic wrote:

Stan Goodman wrote:

Use a second hdd and rsnapshot. It is cheap, reliable, effective, will give redundant backups and you can run it as a cronjob, meaning that you won't have to do it manually.

The initial setup is rather straight-forward.

What? rsnapshot took all the fun out of writing the rsync backups yourself and automated it! This world is just getting too slick. -- David C. Rankin, J.D., P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Sun, Mar 30, 2008 at 6:08 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1

The Monday 2008-03-31 at 00:15 +0300, Stan Goodman wrote:

...

I would be grateful for advice about backup software appropriate for my situation, and for remarks people using such utilities, including what to avoid. I can see that there are several packages available through YaST, but it would be helpful to know what others think about them and about relative advantages.

I have only one Linux system here, so network capability is not important. I do not have a tape drive, but would be read carefully any remarks about whether I need one. If not, then it would have to be something capable of bridging DVDs for a total backup, and probably CDs for incremental backup.

To DVD, "dar".

To an external HD via USB, rsync and the variants they have already told you.

Cheers for an external USB hard drive. Boo for the Rsync. Rsync is NOT a good backup tool. Backups should be a point in time image of the file system. Rsync wants to match changes on a file by file basis, which means if you delete a file rsync dutifully deletes your backup of that file. Hello? Better to use something that can compress files and thereby allow multiple backup images of the file system. I use BRU for this. I pay for it. Its worth it. I back up to a USB drive, but it can also drive most tape drives on the market. -- ----------JSA--------- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Sunday 2008-03-30 at 18:48 -0700, John Andersen wrote:

Cheers for an external USB hard drive.

Boo for the Rsync.

Rsync is NOT a good backup tool. Backups should be a point in time image of the file system. Rsync wants to match changes on a file by file basis, which means if you delete a file rsync dutifully deletes your backup of that file.

Hello?

Read the man, man. Rsync can be used to make "differential" backups, having several sets like hourly, daily, whatever, each only using space for the difference. Of course, you have to script it or somehow enter the proper command sequence and parameters. Or, use one of the readily existing solutions which have been already mentioned, which in fact are based around rsync. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFH8EratTMYHG2NR9URAqRgAJ4qF3f3yQVyzzX3UydZtq51YQ8ADwCfYXLu T4vIQw+cLLgrE+yfm8DoPo8= =V2RK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 jdd sur free wrote:

G T Smith a écrit :

...

In many situations a solution that allows for recovery of a file that got deleted in error (or corrupted

best solution I see is

* backup on an external HDD (I have bough an usb<>IDE device just for that) * burn dvd's

for home users, most volume data are photos or videos, so sending copies to all the family is both a goos way to be fair and to have remote backups copies :-)

don't forget fire is the worst possible danger as it may destruct all the computer room

jdd

You forgot the other... theft.... External HDD + DVD archives is one of the alternatives... then the main problem is tracking file versions and locations, not easy if you have 200k files and multiple files versions and copies of those versions... I may be being a bit paranoid but if I went for a HDD based solution it would be a remote server or a caddy based option... my experience with USB based devices does not make me inclined to rely on them for something critically important, they tend to be more likely to go AWOL when you really need them... - -- ============================================================================== I have always wished that my computer would be as easy to use as my telephone. My wish has come true. I no longer know how to use my telephone. Bjarne Stroustrup ============================================================================== -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFH8LfUasN0sSnLmgIRAg4uAKD0bVUtNNDw7j05JlQWi3DQQdYm8ACg7Spe kYx9yLBarBuq1XqOZ1glB8s= =ENPT -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 jdd sur free wrote:

G T Smith a écrit :

...

I may be being a bit paranoid but if I went for a HDD based solution it would be a remote server or a caddy based option... my experience with USB based devices does not make me inclined to rely on them for something critically important, they tend to be more likely to go AWOL when you really need them...

?? I use the very same HDD as on usual hardware, and keep the hdd without interface (sort of large usb keys :-))

jdd

Yep... but with the situation that at the device end you usually have a bit of hardware which does a USB -> ATAPI/IDE/PATA/SATA translation... so you have at least one (possibly more) level(s) of translation... with additional power paraphernalia... and all which goes with it... For a laptop or desktop where you have no additional slots one obviously has no choice but otherwise I would look at alternative approaches... With a caddy one just has an ATAPI/IDE/PATA/SATA link to the hardware on your box with no additional wires and other bits and pieces... I am aware that hot plugging a caddy drive may be problematic... (the only real complaint I have had with caddies is for some reason suppliers tend to only supply one caddy per mount unit and they seem to be a little more difficult to get hold of now... ) I am a simple kind of chap that tends to prefer things with fewer things that can go wrong, I rather prefer KISS solutions... - -- ============================================================================== I have always wished that my computer would be as easy to use as my telephone. My wish has come true. I no longer know how to use my telephone. Bjarne Stroustrup ============================================================================== -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFH8Nf1asN0sSnLmgIRAvcZAKDZIRjKwkqfpwr+eryefbpiMRJZRwCg0XMc 7vA552OFVKjuizJrkmlQudc= =orwV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Mon, 2008-03-31 at 10:36 +0200, jdd sur free wrote:

G T Smith a écrit :

...

In many situations a solution that allows for recovery of a file that got deleted in error (or corrupted

best solution I see is

* backup on an external HDD (I have bough an usb<>IDE device just for that) * burn dvd's CD's or DVD's are not suited well for long term storage Wasn't that tested some years ago on TOM's H.G. ??? Much decay after five years afair.

Magneto storage, like tapes or a number of external HD's is the best sollution. Mind you that HD's are not very fond of high temperatures or G-forces, and should be switched off & disconnected directly after macking a backup.

for home users, most volume data are photos or videos, so sending copies to all the family is both a goos way to be fair and to have remote backups copies :-)

Someone may photoshop your wedding foto's ;-)))

don't forget fire is the worst possible danger as it may destruct all the computer room

Don't forget dust, water and un-authourized access (wife, kids: nice HDD, i just needed one for my school project) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Monday 2008-03-31 at 19:53 +0200, jdd sur free wrote:

any kind of backup support *must* be copied at least every 4 years on new support.

I have backup sets made circa 1980 on 60..80 flopies (the under 1 Mb size), still in working condition. The computer was an 8086 and I used PC Backup from Central Point Software. It was reliable and fast; we don't have the like of it nowdays. Nowdays, you can't even buy a box of 10 disketes and be sure that all of them work for a week - even if they are from a reliable brand. Reliable, durable, backup: use ink on paper! It lasts centuries. That's proven reliability! :-p - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFH8TqWtTMYHG2NR9URAjzKAJ4jPcrL7uNXKcY7OKrbc44brr0idACeLT8j uhLAQfYWsYJ1SPCJYYJEhcc= =CZqG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Monday 31 March 2008 11:39, Randall R Schulz wrote:

On Monday 31 March 2008 11:28, Hans Witvliet wrote:

...

On Mon, 2008-03-31 at 10:36 +0200, jdd sur free wrote:

...

G T Smith a écrit :

...

In many situations a solution that allows for recovery of a file that got deleted in error (or corrupted

best solution I see is

* backup on an external HDD (I have bough an usb<>IDE device just for that) * burn dvd's

CD's or DVD's are not suited well for long term storage Wasn't that tested some years ago on TOM's H.G. ??? Much decay after five years afair.

It seems useful to distinguish backup, which is a prophylaxis against unexpected data loss, and archiving, which is for preserving a historical record of your files. One often need not archive nearly as much data as one would want to be able to recover after a hardware, software or human error.

... And conversely, one need not expect backup data to have nearly th longevity of archival storage. RRS -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

John Andersen wrote:

On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 11:50 AM, Randall R Schulz wrote:

...

...

It seems useful to distinguish backup, which is a prophylaxis against unexpected data loss, and archiving, which is for preserving a historical record of your files. One often need not archive nearly as much data as one would want to be able to recover after a hardware, software or human error.

... And conversely, one need not expect backup data to have nearly th longevity of archival storage.

But what qualifies as archival storage these days? There really is nothing except saving it on hard drives, and even those don't retain data forever. Even if they did, will be even be able to cable those drives up in 5 years as SATA pushes the last ide interface out the door?

Nothing you print on any consumer grade photo printer is expected to last even 10 years.

We risk being the first generation with no shoe-box full of photos to pass down to our children. Instead we will give them a box full of disk of various media non of which can be read because the drives are no longer made or the media itself has deteriorated.

Which is one reason why I still use film.

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Randall R Schulz wrote:

On Monday 31 March 2008 11:39, Randall R Schulz wrote:

...

On Monday 31 March 2008 11:28, Hans Witvliet wrote:

...

On Mon, 2008-03-31 at 10:36 +0200, jdd sur free wrote:

...

G T Smith a écrit :

...

In many situations a solution that allows for recovery of a file that got deleted in error (or corrupted best solution I see is

It seems useful to distinguish backup, which is a prophylaxis against unexpected data loss, and archiving, which is for preserving a historical record of your files. One often need not archive nearly as much data as one would want to be able to recover after a hardware, software or human error.

... And conversely, one need not expect backup data to have nearly th longevity of archival storage.

RRS

Agreed, However, an issue with a snapshot style of backup is the assumption that the material to be backed up is valid. While this may the case with a catastrophic failure, it may not be the case if the source material has been degrading over time due to hardware, software, or human error issues. (Hardware based degradation can be covered by using RAID to some extent, but the others not at all). If the snapshop recovery fails to recover data, recovery from an archive of last good copies is useful to have as a fallback option. In my experience to solely rely on one mechanism is inviting that mechanism to fail. - -- ============================================================================== I have always wished that my computer would be as easy to use as my telephone. My wish has come true. I no longer know how to use my telephone. Bjarne Stroustrup ============================================================================== -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFH8fk3asN0sSnLmgIRArOOAKC6tW4rRwHAwWrjWpAhg7FUpxl3AACgwgi9 /a3fYTctDGqgGoFUHoIO/y0= =H3Zv -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R. a écrit :

Plus, it is much faster! You don't have to be there changing DVDs. You just program it and leave.

one drive can accomodate all the backup, so making a second copy is just a matter of two clics. onmly inconvenience is that it's difficult to send by mail :-) jdd -- Jean-Daniel Dodin Président du CULTe www.culte.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Monday 2008-03-31 at 15:46 +0200, Nick Zeljkovic wrote:

...

onmly inconvenience is that it's difficult to send by mail :-)

jdd

Unless sent by as per RFC 1149. Yes, long latency but should do =)

ROTFL! X'-) - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFH8PVTtTMYHG2NR9URAphRAKCGbscQkQyNxL7kLmXeg7UzRp/ZzACaA4TS nOcO3LDYP77OQTfriE+zrWA= =uTFq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org