On Wed, Jun 28, 2006 at 11:02:56AM +0200, Martin Schlander wrote:

Onsdag 28 juni 2006 09:08 skrev jdd:

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From http://reverendted.wordpress.com/

A colleague of mine and I just ordered 7,500 DVD's copies of the 10.1 release of openSUSE. Novell does hand them out freely, but mostly at events. We also make openSUSE freely available for download from openSUSE.org.

we definitively need to rethink the SUSE Linux versus opensuse linux naming...

(TED is a Provo SE)

I've pretty much given up - how can we explain the difference between SUSE Linux and openSUSE to people, when even top Novell marketing guys like Ted Haeger refuse to use the correct names?

Is it a problem? I think so.

- It's simply not correct. - It causes SUSE Linux questions to appear on the opensuse-malinglist, irc-channel etc.. - It results in people not knowing what the opensuse-project is about, since people think it's just a distro - and thus the message of the community built distro gets lost. - It feeds the confusion and numerous misconceptions: "opensuse is non-novell suse" "opensuse is the free (as in beer) version, that's different from the retail version" "opensuse is a non-oss version, that's different from the retail version that's filled with closed stuff" etc.

Either we should just give in and call the distro OpenSUSE officially - or someone should tell Michael Meeks, Ted Haeger and more what the hell the correct name for the distro is, that they're promoting.

At least Greg Mancusi-Ungaro seems to get it right..

We will likely rename "it" for 10.2 anyway. Ciao, Marcus --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org

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We will likely rename "it" for 10.2 anyway. Just call it SUSE and tell everybody it is open.

Nah, just call it "it" :) -- James Ogley james@usr-local-bin.org http://usr-local-bin.org Packages for SUSE: http://usr-local-bin.org/rpms Help end poverty: http://oxfam.org.uk/imin --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org

Hi, On Wed, 28 Jun 2006, Kenneth Schneider wrote:

On Wed, 2006-06-28 at 10:22 +0100, James Ogley wrote:

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We will likely rename "it" for 10.2 anyway. Just call it SUSE and tell everybody it is open.

Nah, just call it "it" :)

Wouldn't that more likely be "IT" instead of "it" :-))

IT Linux, if you are looking for linux this is IT.

No no, it's SUSE and it shall ever be it. Cheers -e -- Eberhard Moenkeberg (emoenke@gwdg.de, em@kki.org) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org

On 6/28/06, Eberhard Moenkeberg wrote:

On Wed, 28 Jun 2006, Marcus Meissner wrote:

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We will likely rename "it" for 10.2 anyway.

Just call it SUSE and tell everybody it is open.

This does lead to the question, why is it called "SUSE Linux" in the first place? Why isn't just SUSE? Were there ever other SUSE products? Pflodo Peter Flodin. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org

Onsdag 28 juni 2006 11:06 skrev Marcus Meissner:

We will likely rename "it" for 10.2 anyway.

Not sure whether that was meant to be a sarcastic remark.. :) But renaming the distro "opensuse" will also cause problems. - openSUSE Linux 10.2 - that's quite a mouthfull. - All the infrastructure of forums, irc etc. will be more or less obsolete (domain names etc.). - the name "opensuse" would imply that "closedsuse" also exists. One good thing would be that maybe then we could have everything on one server - instead of having both suse.com- and opensuse.org-mirrors which is confusing to people - and also too much work - even if you're not confused. Whoever makes these decisions should think it through very thorough - and preferably discuss it with the opensuse-community before major changes are decided on. Hopefully we can come up with a sustainable solution so we don't have to change everything with every release in the future. Martin / cb400f --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org

Siegbert Baude wrote:

Martin Schlander schrieb:

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- the name "opensuse" would imply that "closedsuse" also exists.

"closedsuse" existed in the past, before the Novel takeover. Yast was not GPLed for example, which caused the GPL zealots to call it non-open.

not GPL, but not closed, it was never (AFAIK) - it was only asked to quote when modified but various Novell professional version (SLES...) can be seen as closed, at least partly. jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org

James Ogley wrote:

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not GPL, but not closed, it was never (AFAIK) - it was only asked to quote when modified

It was "open source" in so far as the source was available and included on release media.

It was non-free in so far as unacceptable[1] restrictions were placed on how one could or could not redistribute it.

[1] In terms of GPL compatibility.

in fact the problem of the old SuSE distribution in regard to the copy was not Yast, but the inclusion of some paid or demo versions (Staroffice, do you remember the openoffice father?) that where copyrighted. so copying these SuSE disks was not so legal. _this_ is one of the reason openSUSE/SUSE Linux must stay "free" "open" as it is now. jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Daniel Bertolo wrote:

Am Mittwoch, 28. Juni 2006 11:06 schrieb Marcus Meissner:

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We will likely rename "it" for 10.2 anyway.

I guess there should be a clear difference between Novell business products such as SUSE Linux Enterprise Server and Novell-sponsored projects such as openSUSE. Have a look at Redhat. Their opensource project is named fedora.

Redhat chose to split between Redhat and Fedora. So what ? Just because Redhat did it that way, it doesn't mean that it's a good idea ;)

So, if Novell want to keep the trademark "SUSE" for their products it would be wise to rename the open distribution to something completely different.

I strongly disagree, to say the least. "SUSE" has been around for a long time, as a name (even if it was "S.u.S.E." and "SuSE" in the past). You might be new to SUSE Linux, but the distribution has a very strong history, especially in Germany, and renaming the distribution to something else is totally *not* a good idea. New users might now be interested in SUSE Linux because it is part of Novell. But I can tell you for sure that a lot of people like and use SUSE Linux because it is still produced by the highly skilled technical staff that has been doing S.u.S.E. Linux and SuSE Linux in the past, with the same focus on quality and polish. If you now call it "Novell Linux" or something else, totally different... well... anything different from "SUSE" actually, it will mean a lot more than just a change of name to many people. Some might see this as "the last bit of S.u.S.E./SuSE going away" (whether this is true or not) and might turn to other distributions. Really, I think it would be a terrible idea. It's not "just a name". If I had any weight in a decision like that (which I don't ;)), I would veto against it, totally. cheers - -- -o) Pascal Bleser http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/ /\\ _\_v The more things change, the more they stay insane. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEonWtr3NMWliFcXcRAvHcAKCcXT1O3/pr/3GHZEOW7xlUbm/EVQCcCkz4 pJ6pbg1WJXT28lVC2Dq9Dew= =W/0X -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org

Pascal Bleser wrote:

New users might now be interested in SUSE Linux because it is part of Novell. But I can tell you for sure that a lot of people like and use SUSE Linux because it is still produced by the highly skilled technical staff that has been doing S.u.S.E. Linux and SuSE Linux in the past, with the same focus on quality and polish.

If you now call it "Novell Linux" or something else, totally different... well... anything different from "SUSE" actually, it will mean a lot more than just a change of name to many people. Some might see this as "the last bit of S.u.S.E./SuSE going away" (whether this is true or not) and might turn to other distributions.

Hi, The SUSE (S.u.S.E./SuSE) name is too much present for lots of people, indeed. The name should be kept, IMHO, but maybe adding something "New". OK, let's start dreaming a bit, that makes life better :-) "Nova" is the Latin name for "New". It also is in Portuguese, for instance. So what about a "SUSE Nova", which would keep: 1. The SUSE name 2. The idea of something new (like a Susenova, ooops a Supernova...) 3. Nova "reminds" also Novell OK, just that thought as thoughts brings new ones :-) Cheers, PatrickM

cheers -- -o) Pascal Bleser http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/ /\\ _\_v The more things change, the more they stay insane.

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On 6/28/06, Daniel Bertolo wrote:

Am Mittwoch, 28. Juni 2006 14:27 schrieb Pascal Bleser:

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"SUSE" has been around for a long time, as a name (even if it was "S.u.S.E." and "SuSE" in the past).

I did not say that SUSE should be renamed. I just suggested to seperate the community based SUSE Linux from the Novell business products. Being a user of both, I would suggest the following:

- Community Edition: SUSE Linux 10.2 - Novell products: Novell Linux Enterprise Server, Novell Linux Desktop

Like that SUSE stands for the community and Novell for business products.

...

You might be new to SUSE Linux, but the distribution has a very strong history, especially in Germany, and renaming the distribution to something else is totally *not* a good idea.

No, I am definitely not new. I am using it for more than six years now. And Switzerland is not that far from Germany :).

Dani

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I think it does create some confussion to have a pay for version and a free version in terms of marketing. However, for corporate use, we will always buy so we can get the support and our lawyers / finance guys don't pay much attention to the name. My two cents is that it is advantegous to have the name SUSE in both the open (free) and pay-for versions. When I am experimenting with a new SUSE version, I go for openSUSE and once happy I recommend it for upgrade. At that point I go to the pay-for SUSE and it goes into QA for final testing. If I have to explain that I experimented with SUSE but I am installing XXXX, it will complicate matters a bit more for the non-technical. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org

L. Mark Stone wrote:

[...]

Similarly, I like the "Enterprise" name for the maintenance-backed products.

We then call the normal version "SuSE Linux Voyager" and the factory build becomes "SuSE Linux Deep Space Nine". Really striking names! ;-) Beam me up, Scottie! SCNR, Th. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org

Jan Engelhardt wrote:

What it maps to? To the "distance of the software versions from the mainstream" (IOW: age).

don't forget to bundle with it the warp engine :-) (and the venusian ears :-) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org

L. Mark Stone wrote:

My two cents for product naming/differentiation:

I quite like the naming and the pricing (too low pricing is of no interestn given there is a downloadable version, so make all the manual printed and make them for a fee)

Novell's SuSE Linux Professional (boxed, with DVD, all CDROMs and non-gpl components, printed manuals and a two-year maintenance agreement, priced accordingly, like $199 each, or $895 for a five-pack--professionals have a budget after all, and if it really is that good, then people will pay for it.)

Novell's OpenSuSE Community Edition

Here, I think it could be better not set Novell in front. The non-Novell community needs much relative importance (after all the name is all what give it reward), so: OpenSuSE Community Edition (in short "openSUSE") (downloadable CDs w/out non-gpl

components, which can be installed separately, along with already built-in hooks to non-SuSE repositories like PackMan, and no support agreements. Make it like Ubuntu; a tight, stable version, and many ways to plug in whatever you want.)

and for this version, a great number of DVD should be printed and made available by second hand channels like e-bay, LUG"s, mass dealers (sold OEM at printing cost). I would specially like e-bay sold for $3+shipment, dvd5 original in a simple cristal box. jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org

On Thu, Jun 29, 2006 at 09:29:41AM +0300, Silviu Marin-Caea wrote:

On Wednesday 28 June 2006 20:30, Daniel Bertolo wrote:

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- Novell products: Novell Linux Enterprise Server, Novell Linux Desktop

NO, NO, no way!! It would be a terrible mistake. While talking to people about Novell Linux Desktop 9, I always got from them confused looks. Always had to follow up explaining "it's actually SUSE Linux", and they were like "ahh, really?".

SLED and SLES are the best names. Don't touch that.

Guys/Girls ... In the end it will be decided by the marketing department. And Novell Marketing is fully aware of the brandvalue of "SUSE". Ciao, Marcus --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org

On Wed, 2006-06-28 at 12:38 +0200, Daniel Bertolo wrote:

Am Mittwoch, 28. Juni 2006 11:06 schrieb Marcus Meissner:

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We will likely rename "it" for 10.2 anyway.

I guess there should be a clear difference between Novell business products such as SUSE Linux Enterprise Server and Novell-sponsored projects such as openSUSE. Have a look at Redhat. Their opensource project is named fedora.

So, if Novell want to keep the trademark "SUSE" for their products it would be wise to rename the open distribution to something completely different.

Dani

PS "sudora" or "novora" :)

How about NOSE linux NOvell suSE :-))))) -- Ken Schneider UNIX since 1989, linux since 1994, SuSE since 1998 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org

--snip--

We will likely rename "it" for 10.2 anyway.

Marcus is correct. At corporate marketing discussions are ongoing to rename SUSE Linux with 10.2. The project name stays as is and the distribution will be renamed. Afaik openSUSE is on the short-list. The confusion with openSUSE.org, the project and SUSE Linux, the distribution is obvious outside and even inside Novell. Nobody catches intuitively what is what. And we have an issue with the difference between Novell business products and the community edition. This is confusing for business customers. M

Ciao, Marcus

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-- Michael Löffler, Product Management Email: michael.loeffler@suse.de Phone: +49 911 74053-376 SUSE Linux Products GmbH, Maxfeldstraße 5, 90409 Nuremberg Software for the Open Enterprise www.novell.com/open -------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org

On Jun 28, 06 15:38:55 +0200, jdd wrote:

Michael Loeffler wrote:

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We will likely rename "it" for 10.2 anyway.

Rename it as you like, as long as SUSE is part of the name.

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The confusion with openSUSE.org, the project and SUSE Linux, the distribution is obvious ...

Add a third name, and you will create more confusion. Just declare that both existing names are synonyms. I see no point in banning last years name. cheers, Jw. PS: "Long live our Frankenstadion!" -- o \ Juergen Weigert paint it green! __/ _=======.=======_ <V> | jw@suse.de wide open suse_/ _---|____________\/ \ | 0911 74053-508 (tm)__/ (____/ /\ (/) | __________________________/ _/ \_ vim:set sw=2 wm=8 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org

We will likely rename "it" for 10.2 anyway.

SUSE Linux Retail SUSE Linux Community Edition 2¢ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org