Am Donnerstag, 8. Dezember 2011, 06:32:23 schrieb Linux Tyro:

Good question and I could have started it if I were knowing Linux like you people but unfortunately I don't know Linux but at least you all should do that!

You do notice that nobody is born with that kind of knowledge? So just start yourself now as others did some time ago instead of pointing to others and demanding from them to spend their free time for you. Sven -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2011-12-08 14:13, lynn wrote:

Sometimes we forget that opensuse is made by volunteers.

Because it wasn't. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 11.4 x86_64 "Celadon" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk7gvNoACgkQtTMYHG2NR9UzJwCfZy3Xeu4io45zdKMhkEjiCt0N AhsAn0J5zIQks0l0vjYSgSuaO7hz93UC =3HMF -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2011-12-08 15:26, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

* Carlos E. R. [12-08-11 08:39]:

...

On 2011-12-08 14:13, lynn wrote:

...

Sometimes we forget that opensuse is made by volunteers.

Because it wasn't.

:^) keyword "wasn't" != "is"

I know. However, I mean that the reason we forget is because it wasn't. And, because we expect SuSE to make some work. After all, they will use all that in SLES... - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 11.4 x86_64 "Celadon" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk7g2D8ACgkQtTMYHG2NR9WgtwCfYbsZRFtnaKKakBneIvoKMvP+ oHIAoIGRBRNu7NsUzYOEoT+XtWINQ7/h =bZMR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 11:03 AM, Linux Tyro wrote:

On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 10:31 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

After all, they will use all that in SLES...

Even if they were not using it in SLES, I would have used openSUSE, I bet.

Even today, I believe there are many SUSE developers that are paid to produce work. If that work makes sense in openSUSE, then they "voluntarily" add it to the distro. Thus a lot of the big projects are done for SUSE but get added to openSUSE for limited volunteer effort. I think grub2 will be one of those major efforts. It has lots of complexity, etc. and will likely cause pain when it is first brought into openSUSE. But having it here may help a SLES developer test out the code base for incorporation into SLES. So I think openSUSE will get grub2 when the effort starts to get SLES to support it. But unlike Fedora, openSUSE is not by design a R&D release. Fedora gets features early with the full knowledge they will cause big issues. Then Redhat tries to resolve them over time. systemd is an example of that. Fedora has had it for awhile and has pushed fixes back to upstream, but there are still so many issues lots of opensuse 12.1 users have had to revert to sysvinit. Especially those that use services not typical of a standard desktop. Another great thing about opensuse is that with OBS now a core component of the development process, anyone can develop and publish compatible packages. And with just a little more effort they can often be pushed into the devel projects and from there into factory. I've pushed a few apps to factory over the summer. I got no political push back like "that's not the direction we're trying to go in." Instead if the package looks good technically it gets accepted. So what often ends up in opensuse is the packages the collection of volunteers is interested in, not what a top down management style might want to see in it. Greg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 11:40 AM, Greg Freemyer wrote:

Even today, I believe there are many SUSE developers that are paid to produce work.  If that work makes sense in openSUSE, then they "voluntarily" add it to the distro.

Thus a lot of the big projects are done for SUSE but get added to openSUSE for limited volunteer effort.

I think grub2 will be one of those major efforts.   It has lots of complexity, etc. and will likely cause pain when it is first brought into openSUSE.  But having it here may help a SLES developer test out the code base for incorporation into SLES.

So I think openSUSE will get grub2 when the effort starts to get SLES to support it.

But unlike Fedora, openSUSE is not by design a R&D release.  Fedora gets features early with the full knowledge they will cause big issues.  Then Redhat tries to resolve them over time.  systemd is an example of that.  Fedora has had it for awhile and has pushed fixes back to upstream, but there are still so many issues lots of opensuse 12.1 users have had to revert to sysvinit.  Especially those that use services not typical of a standard desktop.

Another great thing about opensuse is that with OBS now a core component of the development process, anyone can develop and publish compatible packages.  And with just a little more effort they can often be pushed into the devel projects and from there into factory.

I've pushed a few apps to factory over the summer.  I got no political push back like "that's not the direction we're trying to go in." Instead if the package looks good technically it gets accepted.  So what often ends up in opensuse is the packages the collection of volunteers is interested in, not what a top down management style might want to see in it.

Greg

Greg your reply is highly matured and authentic. Nice! Can you also tell me something in the other thread of 'A request to Attachmate/Novell'..(there itself)...? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Linux Tyro said the following on 12/08/2011 06:32 AM:

Good question and I could have started it if I were knowing Linux like you people but unfortunately I don't know Linux but at least you all should do that!

I think you are so missing the point. Grub2 isn't about Linux. If you take a look at, for example, the development work being done for PXE booting, you'll see that booting can be used to boot anything your sweet heart desires, all versions of Windows Linux and many other things, not all of them operating systems. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preboot_Execution_Environment The remote host that a PXE device boots from need not be Linux, UNIX or Windows, nor the files it draws upon. The advantage PXE APIs have is that they don't have to worry about disk layout :-) If you look at LILO or either version of GRUB you'll see that they concern themselves with things like disk layout and with the low level machine architecture, the memory management hardware and virtual memory mapping. Some, but not all, kernel developers _might_ have to deal with _some_ of this, but for the most part even that esoteric breed don't have to face this. Application programmers, be they C++, LAMP, networking, all don't have to deal with these HARDWARE issues. So "programmers" in general are not going to be capable of dealing with GRUB. This is no insult to them. People like Per, myself and many others are experienced with many areas of Linux, but this aspect of _HARDWARE_ is a different matter. And the "learning curve" to come to deal with it is not so much a "curve" as a "Big Step". -- The line, often adopted by strong men in controversy, of justifying the means by the end. Saint Jerome, Letter 48 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 10:06 AM, Anton Aylward wrote:

experienced with many areas of Linux, but this aspect of _HARDWARE_ is a different matter.  And the "learning curve" to come to deal with it is not so much a "curve" as a "Big Step".

It means you have to learn Hardwares? Apart from it, I would like to thank all of you since I came to know the real thing about Grub 2. Thanks to everyone. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 5:24 AM, Felix Miata wrote:

Grub Legacy does everything I'm aware that I need done from a bootloader quite well thank you very much.

Well, so Suse would remain with it always? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2011-12-08 12:50, jdd wrote:

grub2 is already available, simply not default.

Not only that, but not configured by YaST, which makes it close to unusable for many people. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 11.4 x86_64 "Celadon" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk7gvWEACgkQtTMYHG2NR9WJdQCeOGBIwYwqFlGZ3flFehRZS2QI 5NYAn12IdUXxISCjzIts/6FSukYQHac+ =bV6v -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 8:38 AM, Anton Aylward wrote:

And even those who are - programmers - might not know abut al the variety of possible boot media, layouts, intricacies of the Intel and other chip internals, memory management architectures and all those other low-level details that are involved with bootstrapping an OS.

In fact I'd be worried if any of the programmers I've known in my years, even those versed in assembler, were to be let loose on something so fundamental.

And yes don't forget that those who created Grub Legacy were programmers and thus was made suse. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 8:28 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

Don't look at me. I'm no Linux dev.

But earlier when you advocated for it I thought you can do some volunteer work for it, but simply you have turned back! Amazing. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 9:00 AM, Sven Burmeister wrote:

It's amazing how you always point at others instead of yourself! Don't find excuses, start yourself or stop pointing at others.

It's not amazing since I got many advocacy comments earlier and now it came to do on the self-shoulders, people are turning back! And I would definitely be working for openSUSE when I would feel that yes at this point of time my knowledge is sufficient to write the code of work. Further, others are making excuses not I. Some says, 'Programers don't know all things about Grub!' while some says, 'Don't look at me'! And this is really amazing. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

* Sven Burmeister [12-08-11 09:32]:

Sorry, but you are just making excuses to not start learning. Learning is the step before knowing and you refuse that step. Unless you start now I cannot take you seriously anymore since I do not like people who always blame others and spend their time on finding excuses instead of starting to contribute.

If you do not want to contribute, fine, but don't tell anyone else what to do, if you yourself cannot be bothered.

Finally, and *excellent* observation that describes perfectly. +1 bravo -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Linux Tyro said the following on 12/08/2011 09:48 AM:

On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 9:27 AM, Sven Burmeister wrote:

...

Learning is the step before knowing

True and that's why I have started to learn.

Good. Then shut up abut it until you've learnt enough to be able to comment sensibly. -- The scientific name for an animal that doesn't either run from or fight its enemies is lunch. - Michael Friedman -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Thursday, December 08, 2011 09:48 AM Linux Tyro wrote:

On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 9:27 AM, Sven Burmeister wrote:

...

Learning is the step before knowing

True and that's why I have started to learn.

Good for you. In the spirit of "learning", go back and read the reply from Anton regarding what it requires of a programmer to really understand what is involved in installing and managing a boot loader, let alone all the additional work of integration with the other pieces that interface with the loader installation. This isn't just a matter of "a" developer or "a" volunteer doing this work. I mean no offense, but you really are in over your head here. I share Anton's, Felix's, and others sentiment that this is something that I am glad the project does not take this on until (a) it is necessary and (b) we can be sure it can be done exactly right. If you want to "learn" how to install grub2, by all means, go ahead. The package is there, and so is the documentation. It can be installed outside of YaST just as legacy grub can be. And whether another distribution has done so or not is beside the point. We are not in some sort of horse-race. The community decides its priorities, and grub2 is on the list, but it's not at the top. You've made your request and your point - albeit not an informed one - so now let it go. Or is that too much to ask? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 9:27 AM, Sven Burmeister wrote:

If you do not want to contribute, fine,

You are amazing this with urself, I want to contribute, unlike you? Have you started contributing or yet to start? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 9:58 AM, C wrote:

This thread is like a lesson in how to quickly add your email to everyone's ignore mail filter.

When I come to reality, it happens, no issues. But remember: a fact is a fact even if you ignore. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 10:09 AM, Anton Aylward wrote:

Then address it by going of and learning: read the code in Grub2, look at the bug & deficiency list; learn about the machine architecture, memory management, rights of protection.

Why not? Definitely! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 10:07 AM, Anton Aylward wrote:

learn about the various machine architectures Linux has to boot onto, go learn about disk layout ...

Sure and why not? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Dennis Gallien said the following on 12/08/2011 07:23 PM:

On Thursday, December 08, 2011 10:07 AM Anton Aylward wrote:

...

Indeed: go learn about the various machine architectures Linux has to boot onto, go learn about disk layout ...

Anton, don't leave out reading the bios hardware map and making bios calls :)

Thank you. Of course since I'm not a bootloader programmer I'm sure I've missed many other things as well. -- Why do cats get fur balls and dogs don't? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Linux Tyro said the following on 12/09/2011 01:18 AM:

On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 7:32 PM, Anton Aylward wrote:

...

Of course since I'm not a bootloader programmer I'm sure I've missed many other things as well.

I guess the most of the things you have missed might be belonging to Hardware.

You are wrong in that; however you *are* consistent. -- "To be conscious of one's ignorance is the beginning of wisdom". -- Sri Ram -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Linux Tyro said the following on 12/09/2011 09:36 AM:

Well I just said since I often heard you saying that you are less aware with hardware technology, so might be you know that better...

You really don't pay attention, do you? As I've said in so many words, as other have said indirectly, there's hardware and there's hardware. There stuff about disks as hardware and there's stuff about disks as hardware. Even if I knew about hardware disk geometry I might not know about hardware disk MTBF or hardware disk surface surface metallurgy or the design of microstepping head actuator motors or the transmission line effect of the high sped signal capable handling capabilities of the multi-layer PCB strapped on the back of the disk ... other very specific bits of hardware[1]. When I was writing disk drivers for UNIX in the days before Linux existed I did know a lot about disk head movement, track widths, encoding and error correcting algorithms sand piles of other stuff about very specific bits of hardware. But not bootstrapping. As I said, there's hardware and there's hardware. I'd advise you not to tell people about the limits of their knowledge or their capabilities. You are sure to be wrong and you are certain to be insulting. There is a vast reservoir of knowledge and experience on this forum. The senior people here have held many roles and done many things in their past. Don't try telling us what we don't know. Even if we don't know, we have the skills to find out, to research and experiment. [1] And Tyro, don't presumes that I _don't_ know about those or other stuff about disk hardware. -- Communism doesn't work because people like to own stuff. Frank Zappa -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 7:23 PM, Dennis Gallien wrote:

Anton, don't leave out reading the bios hardware map and making bios calls :)

Everyone needs morel learning in Hardware I guess. Even Anton told, he doesn't know much of the hardware. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 9:40 AM, Anton Aylward wrote:

An important part of Wisdom is recognising the limits to your knowledge and capability. I can't run a four minute mile or bench press four times my own weight. If you can, great, but I'd advise you to not speculate on what other's can't do. You are more likely to be talking about something that they can do but have more important (or interesting) other things to do.

Amazing that you are telling this! I cannot believe. I ignored your one mail when it was not suited to me (the tech stuff in it) and remember you told me that I_don't_know_anything. So should you also not say this to others? Might be you can do much in Linux but I cannot. So what? So concentrate more on the self knowledge rather than tinkering with my little knowledge. So you your self are doing the things which you tell me to not do! Amazing. Because this is true, I guess you should also see this matter. I might be little in knowledge (of "Linux") but in general principles -- they are equal for each individual.... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 12:14 PM, Dennis Gallien wrote:

The point of this is to reinforce as forcefully as I can with specifics re grub, the broader point Anton has articulated well more than once.  No one and I do mean no one, should be touching this stuff unless s/he really knows what s/he is doing.  And no one - in particular one person (hint hint) - should be going on and on about something that s/he so obviously knows nothing about.  That message has IMO been delivered clearly with a lot of diplomacy and patience - more than once.  To that person who is "learning", may I suggest a focus on better listening skills.

Well, let's put an _end_ to this thread and the conclusion is that Grub Legacy is working quite well and _no_issues_with_it and also there is no volunteerization right now for Grub2. But whenever (might be in the future) SLED/SLES would need of Grub 2, the development devel team would do something. I have however, no issues with Grub Legacy, but then why I asked? I asked since I saw other distros using it. But now I have understood that Grub Legacy is great and be working well.....until and unless........But I would just focusing on somewhat a small reality which automatically would come in the mind that: Ubuntu and Fedora team worked on Grub 2, so they might have developed team or they are more hardware focusing than us? Not a thing to consider it now, let us put an end to this, finally I check out the options of Grub Legacy and check out the YaST2. Well, have to sleep then..., thanks and good night. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 12/8/2011 8:48 AM, Linux Tyro wrote:

But earlier when you advocated for it I thought you can do some volunteer work for it, but simply you have turned back! Amazing Sigh. I'm starting to think you're just a troll.

Volunteering for any Linux distribution does not necessary mean developing. There is howtos and wikis that have been built. There's providing support via mail lists and forums. There's bug reporting. You seem to be all over Ubuntu, so why don't you just go there instead of trolling and comparing between OS and Ubuntu? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Linux Tyro wrote:

On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 9:41 AM, Michael S. Dunsavage wrote:

...

Sigh. I'm starting to think you're just a troll.

No Michael, I guess you are troll.

Congratulations. I finally got so fed up, I added you to my bitbucket. Bye bye, LinuxTyro. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

* Linux Tyro [12-08-11 10:33]:

On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 10:03 AM, Dave Howorth wrote:

...

Congratulations. I finally got so fed up, I added you to my bitbucket. Bye bye, LinuxTyro.

Congratulations to you also Dave, I also have added you to my bitbucket.

Please tell us how you accomplish this? -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

* Linux Tyro [12-09-11 01:15]:

On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 3:01 PM, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...

Please tell us how you accomplish this?

What exactly?

<quote> Why do you delete the portion of a post that you refer? The question was quite simple and I will repost the portion you have deleted so you can see. * Linux Tyro [12-08-11 10:33]:

On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 10:03 AM, Dave Howorth wrote:

...

Congratulations. I finally got so fed up, I added you to my bitbucket. Bye bye, LinuxTyro.

Congratulations to you also Dave, I also have added you to my bitbucket.

Please tell us how you accomplish this? </quote> can you answer the question intelligently now or will you continue "just posting" as a troll might (look it up)? -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Am Freitag, 9. Dezember 2011, 22:47:52 schrieb Linux Tyro:

On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 4:58 PM, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...

...

wrote:

...

Congratulations. I finally got so fed up, I added you to my bitbucket. Bye bye, LinuxTyro.

Congratulations to you also Dave, I also have added you to my bitbucket.

Please tell us how you accomplish this?

But first tell me why do you want to know? What's the reason? Did I ask you something regarding it? Or if is it your problem to be discussed here? I don't have issue(s) with it so that I need help regarding it and in case if I would have I would generate the mail....isn't it?

I'm not sure it's hilarious or just sad to see somebody hedge at answering a simple question that hard instead of admitting he did not have a clue what he was writing in the first place. Come on, you had hours to find out and still play childish games of "first you tell me…"? Sven PS: rhetoric question and mail -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Sat, Dec 10, 2011 at 08:21:09AM -0500, Linux Tyro wrote:

On Sat, Dec 10, 2011 at 4:13 AM, Sven Burmeister wrote:

Sven had quite a bit more to say in his posting http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse/2011-12/msg00684.html

Let_us_put_an***end*** to this and the conclusion is that when SLED/SLES would need or would say openSUSE to use Grub 2, we would be using. Grub Legacy is working fine and let us see those options.

Not as long as: a) My popcorn isn't empty yet. I just got a new dilivery to being able to continue reading this thread. No, it's honestly slowly sucking more and more and getting boring. Therefore by intention no smily at the end of this sentence. b) You simply stated: "Guys, I'm sorry, I have no clue how to behave on mailing lists, next time I try to behave better and to learn and to demonstrate progress. I'm sorry if I've set you up." Please consult some documentation like http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1855.txt or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style Next try to apply the suggestions to your habit here in our house. Be a nice guest. Follow the advices fellows gave which are more experienced. Just let this thread end with this statement¹ and _demonstrate_ by this that you're able to learn. We all accept this as your sorry as requested above in b). With a further reply you would demonstrate again the opposite and the majority of us know quite well how to handle you in the future. Some already expressed this with a last reply to one of your postings. Others will use a more silent version to handle you. Thanks and keep in mind not to press the reply button! Keep it in mind! Lars ¹ Which is the very, very polite version of End Of Thread (EOT). -- Lars Müller [ˈlaː(r)z ˈmʏlɐ] Samba Team SUSE Linux, Maxfeldstraße 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2011-12-08 14:48, Linux Tyro wrote:

On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 8:28 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

Don't look at me. I'm no Linux dev.

But earlier when you advocated for it I thought you can do some volunteer work for it, but simply you have turned back! Amazing.

I participate, but not in that. It is beyond my skills. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 11.4 x86_64 "Celadon" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk7g2TsACgkQtTMYHG2NR9WGlQCdGG4gY54A4t40A3wK/1VDeTSa UTwAnimYM5bC5uFJMAI/wngEo+m/0roG =DMJk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 10:35 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

It is beyond my skills.

I came to know that there is no way to escape out of learning and this is what experience tells one. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org