[opensuse] Spam and this and other mailing lists

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John

5 Jun 2008 5 Jun '08

11:32

After joining this board I noticed that my spam rocketted. I've noticed the same sort of effect on other boards but not so marked. Some boards encourage people to use the list address for "to" and "reply to" that way everybody always gets to see the answer. This list always always sets "reply to" to my own email address. My biggets concern though is that there are obviously email address collection bots / people kicking about on lists and even changing reply to etc doesn't defeat them as the originators email address is still buried in the source. Why isn't it all stripped out by the lists server? Spam is a problem to many people including isp's. John -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

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Richard Ibbotson

5 Jun 5 Jun

11:37

New subject: [opensuse] Re: Spam and this and other mailing lists

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My biggets concern though is that there are obviously email address collection bots / people kicking about on lists and even changing reply to etc doesn't defeat them as the originators email address is still buried in the source. Why isn't it all stripped out by the lists server? Spam is a problem to many people including isp's.

This is why some people use a Gmail or a similar account for use with public mailing lists. Google take all of the hits leaving me to read the list traffic. Makes life easy :) -- Richard www.sheflug.org.uk -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Evens Garde

11:40

John wrote:

...

After joining this board I noticed that my spam rocketted. I've noticed the same sort of effect on other boards but not so marked.

I've never seen any problem associated with an opensuse list. What else do you use this address for?

...

Some boards encourage people to use the list address for "to" and "reply to" that way everybody always gets to see the answer. This list always always sets "reply to" to my own email address.

My biggets concern though is that there are obviously email address collection bots / people kicking about on lists and even changing reply to etc doesn't defeat them as the originators email address is still buried in the source. Why isn't it all stripped out by the lists server? Spam is a problem to many people including isp's.

John

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

John

12:16

On Thursday 05 June 2008 12:40:09 Evens Garde wrote:

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John wrote:

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After joining this board I noticed that my spam rocketted. I've noticed the same sort of effect on other boards but not so marked.

I've never seen any problem associated with an opensuse list.

What else do you use this address for?

...
Some boards encourage people to use the list address for "to" and "reply to" that way everybody always gets to see the answer. This list always always sets "reply to" to my own email address.

My biggets concern though is that there are obviously email address collection bots / people kicking about on lists and even changing reply to etc doesn't defeat them as the originators email address is still buried in the source. Why isn't it all stripped out by the lists server? Spam is a problem to many people including isp's.

John

I use it as a general email address. Spam has been stable at around 200 per week for some time. After joining this list it's a lot higher. As I have said it's something I've noticed before. I have other email accounts and have noticed the same effect on these too. I have one that I never use and get none on that at all. I have another I am careful about where I do use it and maybe get 1 or 2 a month from name guessers. That's why I don't use my full name anywhere. I've been using email for about 15years and have seen how spammers progress. I used to get some mails address to john1 to 10,000 etc they are a little more sophisticated these days. I've used john_82/john82@ somewhere ever since msn started up in the uk. Basically it's an obvious root for such people to take and some clearly do. Fortunately Kmail filters can remove the vast bulk of it but they could do with some slight enhancements and I still have to scan through them just in case. Pointlessly in most cases. John -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

jdd sur free

12:42

John wrote:

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I use it as a general email address.

as you can see http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse/2008-06/msg00305.html your e-mail is *not* kept in the archives jdd -- Jean-Daniel Dodin Président du CULTe www.culte.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

John

13:17

On Thursday 05 June 2008 13:42:29 jdd sur free wrote:

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John wrote:

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I use it as a general email address.

as you can see

http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse/2008-06/msg00305.html

your e-mail is *not* kept in the archives

jdd

-- Jean-Daniel Dodin Président du CULTe www.culte.org

I think you are missing the point so I've sent a copy of this to your email address too. The list itself is the problem not the archives. John -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Randall R Schulz

13:23

On Thursday 05 June 2008 06:17, John wrote:

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On Thursday 05 June 2008 13:42:29 jdd sur free wrote:

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John wrote:

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I use it as a general email address.

as you can see

http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse/2008-06/msg00305.html

your e-mail is *not* kept in the archives

jdd

-- Jean-Daniel Dodin Président du CULTe www.culte.org

I think you are missing the point so I've sent a copy of this to your email address too. The list itself is the problem not the archives.

You want posting users' email addresses elided on this list itself? In headers and the body of reflected messages? I don't. I think you can access this list via Gmane, if you don't want to be a full participant.

...

John

Randall Schulz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Doug McGarrett

19:41

On Thursday 05 June 2008 07:40, Evens Garde wrote:

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John wrote:

...
After joining this board I noticed that my spam rocketted. I've noticed the same sort of effect on other boards but not so marked.

I've never seen any problem associated with an opensuse list.

What else do you use this address for?

...
Some boards encourage people to use the list address for "to" and "reply to" that way everybody always gets to see the answer. This list always always sets "reply to" to my own email address.

My biggets concern though is that there are obviously email address collection bots / people kicking about on lists and even changing reply to etc doesn't defeat them as the originators email address is still buried in the source. Why isn't it all stripped out by the lists server? Spam is a problem to many people including isp's.

John

I too have not had a problem with spam that I could trace back to this list. AAMOF, I get a remarkably small amount of it, most from businesses I have ordered from. I don't remember what I have set the filters for, but it wasn't complicated, that's for sure! (I don't know enough to set up complicated filters!) For what it's worth, I'm using optonline.net from Cablevision, and KMail for all my mail, except a few times when I have needed Windows for some reason. Firewall router is a wired Linksys, with several year old software, and I do not belong to any blogs. I use Firefox for Googling. I don't know if any of this is part of my good fortune or not. --doug Blessed are the peacemakers ... for they shall be shot at from both sides. --A.M. Greeley -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Henne Vogelsang

13:27

Hi, On Thursday, June 05, 2008 at 12:32:28, John wrote:

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After joining this board I noticed that my spam rocketted. I've noticed the same sort of effect on other boards but not so marked.

As you can see this list is popular with all kinds of folks :)

...

Some boards encourage people to use the list address for "to" and "reply to" that way everybody always gets to see the answer. This list always always sets "reply to" to my own email address.

Not this discussion again. Please search the list archives for reply-to.

...

My biggets concern though is that there are obviously email address collection bots / people kicking about on lists and even changing reply to etc doesn't defeat them as the originators email address is still buried in the source.

Setting an Reply-To is not obfuscating any other address in the mail so i dont know how you would defeat address collection with this.

...

Why isn't it all stripped out by the lists server?

What exactly do you mean with "all"? Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

John

13:47

On Thursday 05 June 2008 14:27:38 Henne Vogelsang wrote:

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Hi,

On Thursday, June 05, 2008 at 12:32:28, John wrote:

...
After joining this board I noticed that my spam rocketted. I've noticed the same sort of effect on other boards but not so marked.

As you can see this list is popular with all kinds of folks :)

...
Some boards encourage people to use the list address for "to" and "reply to" that way everybody always gets to see the answer. This list always always sets "reply to" to my own email address.

Not this discussion again. Please search the list archives for reply-to.

...
My biggets concern though is that there are obviously email address collection bots / people kicking about on lists and even changing reply to etc doesn't defeat them as the originators email address is still buried in the source.

Setting an Reply-To is not obfuscating any other address in the mail so i dont know how you would defeat address collection with this. That is exactly what I have just said. The originators email address is always in the emails source code.

...
Why isn't it all stripped out by the lists server?

What exactly do you mean with "all"?

Henne

-- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson

If the server took the title, message and attachments and then repackaged them in a mail sent by itself and with "reply to" also set to itself the originators email address would not be in the email source. The tracking information wouldn't be either. You might wonder why I would suggest removing the tracking information too. I do not think it would be wise to elaborate on that on this or any other list. It can be seriously abused. It is sometimes too. John -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Randall R Schulz

13:54

On Thursday 05 June 2008 06:47, John wrote:

...

...

If the server took the title, message and attachments and then repackaged them in a mail sent by itself and with "reply to" also set to itself the originators email address would not be in the email source. The tracking information wouldn't be either.

You might wonder why I would suggest removing the tracking information too. I do not think it would be wise to elaborate on that on this or any other list. It can be seriously abused. It is sometimes too.

I don't think the Internet is a good match for you. May I suggest a nice, quiet, safe library?

...

John

RRS -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

John

14:12

On Thursday 05 June 2008 14:54:57 Randall R Schulz wrote:

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On Thursday 05 June 2008 06:47, John wrote:

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If the server took the title, message and attachments and then repackaged them in a mail sent by itself and with "reply to" also set to itself the originators email address would not be in the email source. The tracking information wouldn't be either.

You might wonder why I would suggest removing the tracking information too. I do not think it would be wise to elaborate on that on this or any other list. It can be seriously abused. It is sometimes too.

I don't think the Internet is a good match for you. May I suggest a nice, quiet, safe library?

...
John

RRS

That really is a very thought full responce. So positive and helpful and completely and utterly ........................ Maybe you send spam? John -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

jdd sur free

15:54

John wrote:

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That really is a very thought full responce. So positive and helpful and completely and utterly ........................

thinking evil people are here is not a very positive response... *I* try to be positive. searching your e-mail: Joe(...)@ntm.org on google gives curious results. Résultats 1 - 10 sur un total d'environ 1 590 pour Joe(...) * there are other hits than opensuse * there *are* hits for openSUSE (two) like this one: http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-amd64/opensuse-amd64-2007-01.mbox.gz notice these are from gz files... I dunno what these are * there are result from archives of openSUSE outside the opensuse domain ask them *not* to archive opensuse or to obfuscate they archives jdd -- Jean-Daniel Dodin Président du CULTe www.culte.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Randall R Schulz

16:08

On Thursday 05 June 2008 08:54, jdd sur free wrote:

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John wrote:

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That really is a very thought full responce. So positive and helpful and completely and utterly ........................

thinking evil people are here is not a very positive response...

*I* try to be positive.

searching your e-mail:

Joe(...)@ntm.org

Except that our newcomer is presumably not Joe at New Tribes Mission, it's (maybe) John something from (maybe) the United Kingdom.

...

on google gives curious results. Résultats 1 - 10 sur un total d'environ 1 590 pour Joe(...)

* there are other hits than opensuse * there *are* hits for openSUSE (two) like this one:

http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-amd64/opensuse-amd64-2007-01.mbox.gz

notice these are from gz files... I dunno what these are

Ha! I'm not afraid of a gzip-compressed file! It's just a compressed archive of the traffic from January of 2007 on this list: Mailing-List: contact opensuse-amd64+help@opensuse.org; run by mlmmj X-Mailinglist: opensuse-amd64 List-Post: mailto:opensuse-amd64@opensuse.org List-Help: mailto:opensuse-amd64+help@opensuse.org List-Subscribe: mailto:opensuse-amd64+subscribe@opensuse.org List-Unsubscribe: mailto:opensuse-amd64+unsubscribe@opensuse.org List-Owner: mailto:opensuse-amd64+owner@opensuse.org

...

...

jdd

-- Jean-Daniel Dodin

After all these years, we learn your name. Hurrah! Randall Schulz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

John Andersen

19:04

On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 6:54 AM, Randall R Schulz wrote:

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On Thursday 05 June 2008 06:47, John wrote:

...
...

If the server took the title, message and attachments and then repackaged them in a mail sent by itself and with "reply to" also set to itself the originators email address would not be in the email source. The tracking information wouldn't be either.

You might wonder why I would suggest removing the tracking information too. I do not think it would be wise to elaborate on that on this or any other list. It can be seriously abused. It is sometimes too.

I don't think the Internet is a good match for you. May I suggest a nice, quiet, safe library?

Exactly. This is the internet, and people have to learn to deal. Linux people are expected to to use the tools at hand, and with all the tools that linux and OpenSuse provide for handling spam it seems pointless to blame this list for spam. I'm on a half dozen lists, some with my "Real" email address which gets filtered by spamassassin and some with this gmail address which gets filtered by Gmail (very effective). You can use Kmail to read your gmail via pop or imap, and still enjoy the filtering. I have less than one spam per month on Gmail, and less than 5 per week on my company email (which has to be less rigorous to accommodate customers behind corporate email systems which tack on all sorts of spammy disclaimers etc). Seriously, the OP should come here asking for help with Spamassassin or Kmail's filtering options rather than complaining about the list. -- ----------JSA--------- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

19:25

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Thursday 2008-06-05 at 12:04 -0700, John Andersen wrote:

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Seriously, the OP should come here asking for help with Spamassassin or Kmail's filtering options rather than complaining about the list.

It is a perfectly valid concern, but the proposed solution (remove the poster originating address) is not acceptable here. I believe Novell was preparing a joint platform offering forum and news access, but I don't know if they are working yet. Maybe the access there is anonymous, at least no email address published, and the OP would be happier? Some posters here use a mail server configured to only accept email from novell/suse/opensuse servers and reject the rest. That's also a solution to avoid spam on the user address. If there were a public server offering that service, that would also be a nice solution. And yes... I too receive spam on addresses I only use here, soon after using them. That's life. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFISD2ktTMYHG2NR9URAo75AKCRThJ6E+bPi9cDgsYSfk7caIUNgACfc1mh Ai+z7bU3wu2RHA6eMkB1nU0= =bp99 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

John Andersen

19:43

On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 12:25 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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I believe Novell was preparing a joint platform offering forum and news access, but I don't know if they are working yet. Maybe the access there is anonymous, at least no email address published, and the OP would be happier?

I simply can't be bothered to read forums, and will be gone when this list is shutdown in favor of a forum. (That may have some of you demanding a forum immediately). Just my opinion, but I abhor them. While you may feel it is a valid concern that there are address harvesting bots subscribed to this list, I have to point out that this IS the Internet, and you WILL get you email address harvested sooner or later if you EVER post with it ANYWHERE. It seems to me that any attempt to hide the email address becomes very similar to a "security by obscurity" situation, and we all know how well that works. -- ----------JSA--------- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Evens Garde

20:05

John Andersen wrote:

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On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 12:25 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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I believe Novell was preparing a joint platform offering forum and news access, but I don't know if they are working yet. Maybe the access there is anonymous, at least no email address published, and the OP would be happier?

I simply can't be bothered to read forums, and will be gone when this list is shutdown in favor of a forum. (That may have some of you demanding a forum immediately). Just my opinion, but I abhor them.

Same here. Forums are the most inefficient method of communicating. They are an idea whose time has never come. The only reason they seem to proliferate, it seems, is because on many sites with not much content, web-masters seem to need forums to justify their own existence.

...

While you may feel it is a valid concern that there are address harvesting bots subscribed to this list, I have to point out that this IS the Internet, and you WILL get you email address harvested sooner or later if you EVER post with it ANYWHERE.

It seems to me that any attempt to hide the email address becomes very similar to a "security by obscurity" situation, and we all know how well that works.

I have reason to believe that some of the address harvesting is actually the result of "inside jobs" involving packet sniffers/address-harvesters within the commercial routing infrastructure. What leads me to this conclusion? When a .mil e-mail address, which I *NEVER* used to send mail to anyone started receiving over 200 spam messages per day ... that didn't happen by accident. Somehow, that address was sniffed out of e-mail which was sent to me, and the only email which I received on that account came from other .mil addresses. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

John Andersen

20:26

On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 1:05 PM, Evens Garde wrote:

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I have reason to believe that some of the address harvesting is actually the result of "inside jobs" involving packet sniffers/address-harvesters within the commercial routing infrastructure.

What leads me to this conclusion?

When a .mil e-mail address, which I *NEVER* used to send mail to anyone started receiving over 200 spam messages per day ... that didn't happen by accident. Somehow, that address was sniffed out of e-mail which was sent to me, and the only email which I received on that account came from other .mil addresses.

Quite possible. One also must allow for the possibility of infected Windows machines simply harvesting email addresses directly from the user's address book / mail folders and forwarding them to the great spammers in the sky. Anyone who sent you mail or had that address in their address book or a CC mail header in their mail folders could be the source. I also know ISP mail servers are routinely exploited by (methods unknown to me) such that even totally non-guessable email addresses (lsk238k2dwe@somedomain.com) start getting mail. These may be inside jobs. They may be breaches. But its happened to me on at least 4 different occasions with three different ISPs. -- ----------JSA--------- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

jdd sur free

20:41

John Andersen wrote:

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One also must allow for the possibility of infected Windows machines

don't forget: http://www.archive.org/web/web.php my mother receive for now one month approx a lot of spam. I removed his mail from any of my web site one year ago and the spam flow tend to zero until this recent event. Google give zero hit on her e-mail, she don't subscribe *any* mailing lists, so the solution is or a virus (on other machine, her is opensuse) or the way back machine where one can find the e-mail. Google don't search way back, so I beg it's protected against robots, but as I could find my mother e-mail, I beg smart robots can circonvent robot.txt jdd -- Jean-Daniel Dodin Président du CULTe www.culte.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

23:36

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Thursday 2008-06-05 at 22:41 +0200, jdd sur free wrote:

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Google don't search way back, so I beg it's protected against robots, but as I could find my mother e-mail, I beg smart robots can circonvent robot.txt

Not smart, simply twisted. A robot can simply ignore what the robot.txt file says. It is not mandatory, it is not forced by the server. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFISHiMtTMYHG2NR9URArKiAJ4p8aDSunGtIF/+JMxtPmcS6wi7/wCfRZ6A iyckhzXzHJ2KkZSqKh1c+ZI= =qobM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Randall R Schulz

6 Jun 6 Jun

00:09

On Thursday 05 June 2008 16:36, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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The Thursday 2008-06-05 at 22:41 +0200, jdd sur free wrote:

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Google don't search way back, so I beg it's protected against robots, but as I could find my mother e-mail, I beg smart robots can circonvent robot.txt

Not smart, simply twisted. A robot can simply ignore what the robot.txt file says. It is not mandatory, it is not forced by the server.

Not necessarily, but not necessarily not... One day I came to work to find that several of our servers were running "hot" (protracted very high utilization). When we started looking at the logs, it turned out that a particular IP range was responsible for the bulk of the traffic. It turned out someone was very interested in our retail business database (accessed via a location-specific Web query interface). We backtracked to the business that was doing the very inefficient bulk download, contacted them and made a deal to share a database appropriately indexed for their needs. The bottom line is that organizations that run big server farms keep a close eye on their resource usage and utilization patterns. If necessary, extreme prejudice can be used to deflect inappropriate access...

...

-- Cheers, Carlos E. R.

Randall Schulz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

01:13

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Thursday 2008-06-05 at 17:09 -0700, Randall R Schulz wrote: ...

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The bottom line is that organizations that run big server farms keep a close eye on their resource usage and utilization patterns. If necessary, extreme prejudice can be used to deflect inappropriate access...

Of course :-) Well, if the other side is interested in getting info they shouldn't, they can ignore the robot.txt file and do the scan slowly, so as not to be so intrusive ;-) Even wget has options for that. The server thinks it is normal traffic, unless they do analysis on the pattern. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFISI83tTMYHG2NR9URAkVFAJ9hPbSpMRL3Z7uNCWXDEOMxtWdKIwCeJzZU /aJVi64h2ZkgiW2HrzBuk60= =3wRr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Randall R Schulz

01:29

On Thursday 05 June 2008 18:13, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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The Thursday 2008-06-05 at 17:09 -0700, Randall R Schulz wrote:

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The bottom line is that organizations that run big server farms keep a close eye on their resource usage and utilization patterns. If necessary, extreme prejudice can be used to deflect inappropriate access...

Of course :-)

Well, if the other side is interested in getting info they shouldn't, they can ignore the robot.txt file and do the scan slowly, so as not to be so intrusive ;-)

Even wget has options for that. The server thinks it is normal traffic, unless they do analysis on the pattern.

"Information wants to be free!" And there are many who want to spring it!!

...

-- Cheers, Carlos E. R.

RRS -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

David Bolt

12:37

On Fri, 6 Jun 2008, Carlos E. R. wrote:-

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Well, if the other side is interested in getting info they shouldn't, they can ignore the robot.txt file and do the scan slowly, so as not to be so intrusive ;-)

One interesting little experiment I've yet to try is to add a deny entry to the robots.txt for a sub-directory that has no links from anywhere else, and then to see which robots actually try indexing it. It might even be fun to build another page detailing which IP addresses visited these hidden locations.

...

Even wget has options for that. The server thinks it is normal traffic, unless they do analysis on the pattern.

And with the use of --wait and --random-wait you can (virtually?) eliminate the patterns. By setting the wait time to a minute, wget will wait anywhere upto two minutes between successive fetches. The full details, and an explanation of why --random-wait exists is in the wget man page. Regards, David Bolt -- Team Acorn: http://www.distributed.net/ OGR-P2 @ ~100Mnodes RC5-72 @ ~15Mkeys SUSE 10.1 32bit | | openSUSE 10.3 32bit | openSUSE 11.0RC1 SUSE 10.1 64bit | openSUSE 10.2 64bit | openSUSE 10.3 64bit RISC OS 3.6 | TOS 4.02 | openSUSE 10.3 PPC | RISC OS 3.11 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

15:18

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Friday 2008-06-06 at 13:37 +0100, David Bolt wrote:

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On Fri, 6 Jun 2008, Carlos E. R. wrote:-

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Well, if the other side is interested in getting info they shouldn't, they can ignore the robot.txt file and do the scan slowly, so as not to be so intrusive ;-)

One interesting little experiment I've yet to try is to add a deny entry to the robots.txt for a sub-directory that has no links from anywhere else, and then to see which robots actually try indexing it. It might even be fun to build another page detailing which IP addresses visited these hidden locations.

Quite interesting! You could deny them any access except to a page explaining they broke policy, or directly denied in the firewall.

...

...
Even wget has options for that. The server thinks it is normal traffic, unless they do analysis on the pattern.

And with the use of --wait and --random-wait you can (virtually?) eliminate the patterns. By setting the wait time to a minute, wget will wait anywhere upto two minutes between successive fetches. The full details, and an explanation of why --random-wait exists is in the wget man page.

Yep. It aroused my curiosity when I read that man page time ago. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFISVU+tTMYHG2NR9URAqEoAJ4kNG9YvCV+TH4gJOEjjz5Na2p4cACfX/OJ J/YqaF88927CMQ+pUStWEzk= =lXCn -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

John Andersen

00:39

On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 4:36 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

A robot can simply ignore what the robot.txt file says. It is not mandatory, it is not forced by the server.

To be pedantic, you can set a flag in Apache to prevent it from generating indexes for directories which robots use to crawl webs. That leaves you only at risk for the links you built into your web. -- ----------JSA--------- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

John

5 Jun 5 Jun

21:53

On Thursday 05 June 2008 21:05:50 Evens Garde wrote:

...

John Andersen wrote:

...
On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 12:25 PM, Carlos E. R.

wrote:

...
I believe Novell was preparing a joint platform offering forum and news access, but I don't know if they are working yet. Maybe the access there is anonymous, at least no email address published, and the OP would be happier?

I simply can't be bothered to read forums, and will be gone when this list is shutdown in favor of a forum. (That may have some of you demanding a forum immediately). Just my opinion, but I abhor them.

Same here.

Forums are the most inefficient method of communicating. They are an idea whose time has never come.

The only reason they seem to proliferate, it seems, is because on many sites with not much content, web-masters seem to need forums to justify their own existence.

...
While you may feel it is a valid concern that there are address harvesting bots subscribed to this list, I have to point out that this IS the Internet, and you WILL get you email address harvested sooner or later if you EVER post with it ANYWHERE.

It seems to me that any attempt to hide the email address becomes very similar to a "security by obscurity" situation, and we all know how well that works.

I have reason to believe that some of the address harvesting is actually the result of "inside jobs" involving packet sniffers/address-harvesters within the commercial routing infrastructure.

What leads me to this conclusion?

When a .mil e-mail address, which I *NEVER* used to send mail to anyone started receiving over 200 spam messages per day ... that didn't happen by accident. Somehow, that address was sniffed out of e-mail which was sent to me, and the only email which I received on that account came from other .mil addresses.

As a note to all I am not complaining about the list just pointing out that something could and I feel should be done about it. I'm not too keen on forums either. Having said that though I do feel that some peoples attitude to the subject is a little bit twisted. I manage too but what's the point in having to bother when the problem needn't exist. Just a little more work for the mail server and not much at that. On sniffing it certainly does go on but I have no idea how. Some one suggested that I should use a nice safe library . I mostly use the internet as a library. Say I have found a russian site for instance and downloaded an ebook. I then start getting russian spam. It's happened and in other countries too and in no case have I sent an email. I only mentioned Russia because I have never ever sent an email there and no way can I speak the language. John -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

23:48

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Thursday 2008-06-05 at 22:53 +0100, John wrote:

...

As a note to all I am not complaining about the list just pointing out that something could and I feel should be done about it. I'm not too keen on forums either. Having said that though I do feel that some peoples attitude to the subject is a little bit twisted. I manage too but what's the point in having to bother when the problem needn't exist. Just a little more work for the mail server and not much at that.

It is not a question of more work. It is because it is not wanted. What you say is basically remove your email from the "from" field and send "from" the server address instead. This is not wanted, it is a deliberate policy choice to put our addresses in the from field. Hint: one of the people that answered is one of the persons responsible for that server. He knows what he is talking about. So... if you stay on this list, your address will be there. If you don't like that, switch to forum or news. Or use an address you only use for mail lists. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFISHtrtTMYHG2NR9URAqkpAJsHeDKIDrYPGogRSGnn/kUhrnDmogCeJmiI SHjYd3INLB6I/++VPayK+S8= =KBDo -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Rajko M.

6 Jun 6 Jun

01:26

On Thursday 05 June 2008 06:48:57 pm Carlos E. R. wrote: ...

...

Or use an address you only use for mail lists.

That is idea too. Than you can set filter to allow only opensuse.org domain. It can be very efficient. I can use this email address for anything else ;-) -- Regards, Rajko http://en.opensuse.org/Portal needs helpful hands. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Rajko M.

01:30

On Thursday 05 June 2008 08:26:09 pm Rajko M. wrote:

...

I can use this email address for anything else

I can't use ... -- Regards, Rajko http://en.opensuse.org/Portal needs helpful hands. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

10:38

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Thursday 2008-06-05 at 20:26 -0500, Rajko M. wrote:

...

On Thursday 05 June 2008 06:48:57 pm Carlos E. R. wrote: ...

...
Or use an address you only use for mail lists.

That is idea too. Than you can set filter to allow only opensuse.org domain. It can be very efficient. I can use this email address for anything else ;-)

(errata: can't) The best thing is to have a mail server set to reject all incoming mail sent direct; ie, to only accept opensuse.org as sender domain. There are some people here that do that, but of course, it needs a 24*7 server and a fixed IP, and not everybody can do that. If for example, gmail could be induced to create such a server for us... :-)~~ - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFISRO5tTMYHG2NR9URAncsAKCMVhircDtOE7jedQWvavEzdw5VOACeNjNM X5Xb+OubQSmfL64nRj+63u4= =1GM5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Fred A. Miller

5 Jun 5 Jun

22:47

John Andersen wrote:

...

On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 12:25 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...
I believe Novell was preparing a joint platform offering forum and news access, but I don't know if they are working yet. Maybe the access there is anonymous, at least no email address published, and the OP would be happier?

I simply can't be bothered to read forums, and will be gone when this list is shutdown in favor of a forum. (That may have some of you demanding a forum immediately). Just my opinion, but I abhor them.

You are NOT alone! I refuse to visit them....period!

...

While you may feel it is a valid concern that there are address harvesting bots subscribed to this list, I have to point out that this IS the Internet, and you WILL get you email address harvested sooner or later if you EVER post with it ANYWHERE.

It seems to me that any attempt to hide the email address becomes very similar to a "security by obscurity" situation, and we all know how well that works.

GOOD point! ;) Fred -- Linux is an old Latin word meaning, "I don't have to support your Windows anymore." -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Fergus Wilde

13:56

On Thursday 05 June 2008 14:47, John wrote:

...

If the server took the title, message and attachments and then repackaged them in a mail sent by itself and with "reply to" also set to itself the originators email address would not be in the email source. The tracking information wouldn't be either.

You might wonder why I would suggest removing the tracking information too. I do not think it would be wise to elaborate on that on this or any other list. It can be seriously abused. It is sometimes too.

John

I don't know how long you've been subscribed, but long-term members have survived so many attempts by list members to institute various 'reforms' of mailing list practices that you may find suggestions for changing its administration worth shelving. Do browse the archives for this and suse-linux-e; it will rapidly become evident why many of us might not wish to sit through another religious war on mailing list admin. -- Fergus Wilde Chetham's Library Long Millgate Manchester M3 1SB Tel: 0161 834 7961 Fax: 0161 839 5797 http://www.chethams.org.uk -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Dave Plater

14:13

John wrote:

...

On Thursday 05 June 2008 14:27:38 Henne Vogelsang wrote:

...
Hi,

On Thursday, June 05, 2008 at 12:32:28, John wrote:

...
After joining this board I noticed that my spam rocketted. I've noticed the same sort of effect on other boards but not so marked. As you can see this list is popular with all kinds of folks :)

I use two emails for this list. I receive on a yahoo pop account and send from a send only google account, due to yahoo being next to useless for sending via smtp. My only address that gets displayed on this list is the google address. I once, quite a while ago, deliberately clicked on a phishing link and since then I have had at least one spam mail every day to the yahoo adress. Each one I report to the originating IP and report the link. The whole point of this mail is that the google email address has never had spam but the yahoo address which never gets displayed on this list does. Surely if addresses were being farmed from this list, I would have received spam on the google account by now. Regards Dave P -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

John

15:52

On Thursday 05 June 2008 15:13:58 Dave Plater wrote:

...

John wrote:

...
On Thursday 05 June 2008 14:27:38 Henne Vogelsang wrote:

...
Hi,

On Thursday, June 05, 2008 at 12:32:28, John wrote:

...
After joining this board I noticed that my spam rocketted. I've noticed the same sort of effect on other boards but not so marked.

As you can see this list is popular with all kinds of folks :)

I use two emails for this list. I receive on a yahoo pop account and send from a send only google account, due to yahoo being next to useless for sending via smtp. My only address that gets displayed on this list is the google address. I once, quite a while ago, deliberately clicked on a phishing link and since then I have had at least one spam mail every day to the yahoo adress. Each one I report to the originating IP and report the link. The whole point of this mail is that the google email address has never had spam but the yahoo address which never gets displayed on this list does. Surely if addresses were being farmed from this list, I would have received spam on the google account by now. Regards Dave P

That's a neat solution that I didn't know was available or could be set up. It needs 2 accounts on all lists. Lists could do more to help. It's an obvious hole that is used and should be closed. Sounds like it would reduce server loads if many people use 2 accounts. It's doesn't do anything about the other problem I mentioned though. I've always used one of my isp email addresses and filtered much like a firewall should - if I send something out something should come back etc. Kmail can nearly do all that is needed. It copes with all but a few. I've never clicked on a phishing link but do send most of them to the appropriate place. I also do the same thing with some spam if it looks as if it may catch other people out. John -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

John Andersen

19:14

On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 8:52 AM, John wrote:

...

That's a neat solution that I didn't know was available or could be set up. It needs 2 accounts on all lists.

No it doesn't. Dave does it that way, but that doesn't mean you have to. Set up a Gmail account and and pop it (or, better, use Imap) with Kmail (or what ever your favorite mail client. You will never see any spam. Yes, you can SEND via Gmail with Kmail or what ever. Kmail can be configured to use a different out-bound path for each folder. -- ----------JSA--------- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Henne Vogelsang

14:21

Hi, On Thursday, June 05, 2008 at 14:47:53, John wrote:

...

On Thursday 05 June 2008 14:27:38 Henne Vogelsang wrote:

...
On Thursday, June 05, 2008 at 12:32:28, John wrote:

...
My biggets concern though is that there are obviously email address collection bots / people kicking about on lists and even changing reply to etc doesn't defeat them as the originators email address is still buried in the source.

Setting an Reply-To is not obfuscating any other address in the mail so i dont know how you would defeat address collection with this.

That is exactly what I have just said. The originators email address is always in the emails source code.

...
...
Why isn't it all stripped out by the lists server?

What exactly do you mean with "all"?

If the server took the title, message and attachments and then repackaged them in a mail sent by itself and with "reply to" also set to itself the originators email address would not be in the email source. The tracking information wouldn't be either.

This would mean a complete anonymus mailinglist. This is certainly an option, but not a very good one i think. Because it takes out the social part of this excercise completely. In general obfuscation cant be the answer to things like SPAM. This is way to highlevel.

...

You might wonder why I would suggest removing the tracking information too. I do not think it would be wise to elaborate on that on this or any other list. It can be seriously abused. It is sometimes too.

You are overestimating the amount of work spammers are willing to put into collecting 1300 addresses :) Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

John

17:25

...

Hi,

On Thursday, June 05, 2008 at 14:47:53, John wrote:

...
On Thursday 05 June 2008 14:27:38 Henne Vogelsang wrote:

...
On Thursday, June 05, 2008 at 12:32:28, John wrote:

...
My biggets concern though is that there are obviously email address collection bots / people kicking about on lists and even changing reply to etc doesn't defeat them as the originators email address is still buried in the source.

Setting an Reply-To is not obfuscating any other address in the mail so i dont know how you would defeat address collection with this.

That is exactly what I have just said. The originators email address is always in the emails source code.

...
...
Why isn't it all stripped out by the lists server?

What exactly do you mean with "all"?

If the server took the title, message and attachments and then repackaged them in a mail sent by itself and with "reply to" also set to itself the originators email address would not be in the email source. The tracking information wouldn't be either.

This would mean a complete anonymus mailinglist. This is certainly an option, but not a very good one i think. Because it takes out the social part of this excercise completely. The list would not be anonymous to who ever runs it only to the users. In anycase so and so @ some company or isp etc doesn't guarantee anything in

On Thursday 05 June 2008 15:21:51 Henne Vogelsang wrote: that respect at all. :) eg My real name is tony blair @ uk.gov and I think it's time some thing was done about it.

...

In general obfuscation cant be the answer to things like SPAM. This is way to highlevel.

It isn't obfuscation it's removal. Then it would be the same as the service most forums offer. Only trouble with forums is that they often don't produce and answer to a specific questions in a reasonable time if at all. Lists sometimes do.

...

...
You might wonder why I would suggest removing the tracking information too. I do not think it would be wise to elaborate on that on this or any other list. It can be seriously abused. It is sometimes too.

You are overestimating the amount of work spammers are willing to put into collecting 1300 addresses :)

The people who make use of the tracking info in the email aren't spammers. They are into other things. Some times malicious things.

...

Henne

-- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson

It all comes down to using dated server software that doesn't account for modern problems. John -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Rajko M.

6 Jun 6 Jun

01:59

On Thursday 05 June 2008 12:25:24 pm John wrote:

...

...
You are overestimating the amount of work spammers are willing to put into collecting 1300 addresses :)

The people who make use of the tracking info in the email aren't spammers. They are into other things. Some times malicious things.

John, Henne is the list owner, the one that you can contact if you have any problem, but not this one. You fears seems to come from not really understanding the problem. From emails malicious people can't extract much, but from other sources they can. They don't spend time collecting bits on mail lists where visitors have wallet, but probably not very attractive, they go after credit card data and similar information. Try to set your email address preferences to receive only mails that have opensuse.org somewhere in the header (To, CC) and it should cure the problem. I hope that tiscali.co.uk has some way to set user preferences, if not Kmail can do that for you. -- Regards, Rajko http://en.opensuse.org/Portal needs helpful hands. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

John

09:42

On Friday 06 June 2008 02:59:43 Rajko M. wrote:

...

On Thursday 05 June 2008 12:25:24 pm John wrote:

...
...
You are overestimating the amount of work spammers are willing to put into collecting 1300 addresses :)

The people who make use of the tracking info in the email aren't spammers. They are into other things. Some times malicious things.

John,

Henne is the list owner, the one that you can contact if you have any problem, but not this one.

You fears seems to come from not really understanding the problem. From emails malicious people can't extract much, but from other sources they can. They don't spend time collecting bits on mail lists where visitors have wallet, but probably not very attractive, they go after credit card data and similar information.

Try to set your email address preferences to receive only mails that have opensuse.org somewhere in the header (To, CC) and it should cure the problem. I hope that tiscali.co.uk has some way to set user preferences, if not Kmail can do that for you.

-- Regards, Rajko http://en.opensuse.org/Portal needs helpful hands.

I have repeatedly said that I do cope with it. All I have said is that there is no need for people to have to cope with it if the list server handles mail in another way. I cope anyway. I am also pointing out that spammers do sometimes gather information this way. This is factual. Fortunately the majority of spammers aren't very intelligent. It also a fact that email headers contain information that defeats one of the major useful aspects of firewalls. Henne may well be the list owner but he can not say that the changes can not be made only that suse are not going to make them. :) Unless he is some sort of comedian :). No offence meant. I'm also glad to here about the send only account. I might find that useful in the future. Techniques used by the more intelligent spammers eventually spread. Some outfits use them like mail shots. They don't cost much and only a few need to reply to make it worthwhile. John -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

10:43

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Friday 2008-06-06 at 10:42 +0100, John wrote:

...

Henne may well be the list owner but he can not say that the changes can not be made only that suse are not going to make them. :) Unless he is some sort of comedian :). No offence meant.

They can not be made as it means hiding the poster address, and that is intentionally maintained in the from field. It's policy. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFISRTDtTMYHG2NR9URAq4XAJwLCO1V7gdZiK969a/8GWfCXOOg9gCfX27p lWIbLXDhJtCI1yUY7m95osw= =r2uO -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Rajko M.

7 Jun 7 Jun

01:41

On Friday 06 June 2008 04:42:23 am John wrote:

...

I have repeatedly said that I do cope with it. All I have said is that there is no need for people to have to cope with it if the list server handles mail in another way. I cope anyway.

I hear that, but that is how it works here. Other have privacy which IMHO is nice, but having some real email makes overall feeling much better.

...

I am also pointing out that spammers do sometimes gather information this way. This is factual. Fortunately the majority of spammers aren't very intelligent.

Don't underestimate anyone. They have no interest to harvest email addresses of group where majority know how to block most of the spam, or report spam which can make a trouble to them.

...

It also a fact that email headers contain information that defeats one of the major useful aspects of firewalls.

Sure. It reveals a lot, but that is a life, we can't have privacy and appear in public.

...

Henne may well be the list owner but he can not say that the changes can not be made only that suse are not going to make them. ...

There was long discussion and vote at the end. Guys that wanted anonymity lost. Henne just counted votes and applied what majority wanted. I was in privacy camp, but after some time without much spam problems, I changed the camp.

...

I'm also glad to here about the send only account. I might find that useful in the future. Techniques used by the more intelligent spammers eventually spread. Some outfits use them like mail shots. They don't cost much and only a few need to reply to make it worthwhile.

That is an idea too. If you provider gives you no options to blacklist addresses and domains than gmail is your friend. -- Regards, Rajko http://en.opensuse.org/Portal needs helpful hands. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

John Andersen

02:02

The Final Authority on this subject is here: http://en.opensuse.org/Mailinglists#Reply-to-munging (Of course, I in no way expect this to be the final post on the subject). -- ----------JSA--------- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

John

13:32

On Saturday 07 June 2008 03:02:21 John Andersen wrote:

...

The Final Authority on this subject is here:

http://en.opensuse.org/Mailinglists#Reply-to-munging

(Of course, I in no way expect this to be the final post on the subject).

-- ----------JSA---------

This is my final post on the subject. :) Even if reply to etc was hidden then the originators email address and ip address etc will still be in the email source so there is no point what so ever in just removing the usually visible information. Forgetting spammers for a while any one that receives that information is at liberty to probe the machine that sent it see what services are offered and etc. A site called grc.com (shields up)can usually give information about one aspect of that. Not all unfortunately. While there seems to be some sort of agreement that this information should be in the source it's probably pointless as all internet activity is traceable.I would be very surprised if the police, mi5, nsa etc care two hoots about that aspect. Many spammers exist by tampering with that information in any case. Phishers that gather email addresses usually root people to a unique web page that logs the visit so if some one is curious about them alter the web address and take a look. Much less risk providing you are not on a fixed ip address. John -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Henne Vogelsang

6 Jun 6 Jun

10:01

Hi, On Thursday, June 05, 2008 at 18:25:24, John wrote:

...

On Thursday 05 June 2008 15:21:51 Henne Vogelsang wrote:

...
On Thursday, June 05, 2008 at 14:47:53, John wrote:

...
On Thursday 05 June 2008 14:27:38 Henne Vogelsang wrote:

...
On Thursday, June 05, 2008 at 12:32:28, John wrote:

...
My biggets concern though is that there are obviously email address collection bots / people kicking about on lists and even changing reply to etc doesn't defeat them as the originators email address is still buried in the source.

Setting an Reply-To is not obfuscating any other address in the mail so i dont know how you would defeat address collection with this.

That is exactly what I have just said. The originators email address is always in the emails source code.

...
...
Why isn't it all stripped out by the lists server?

What exactly do you mean with "all"?

If the server took the title, message and attachments and then repackaged them in a mail sent by itself and with "reply to" also set to itself the originators email address would not be in the email source. The tracking information wouldn't be either.

This would mean a complete anonymus mailinglist. This is certainly an option, but not a very good one i think. Because it takes out the social part of this excercise completely.

The list would not be anonymous to who ever runs it only to the users.

So it would be anonymous to the important people and not anonymous to the unimportant.

...

In anycase so and so @ some company or isp etc doesn't guarantee anything in that respect at all.

:) eg My real name is tony blair @ uk.gov and I think it's time some thing was done about it.

If you participate in this forum as tony blair people will be able to identify you as tony blair and thats a good thing (regardless if this is your real name or not). This is not a binary yes/no question. This is a matter of how much you are willing to sacrifice for protection against address harvesters. Most (all except you? :) people here are not willing to sacrifice the social part of this list to gain total protection from address gatherers.

...

...
...
You might wonder why I would suggest removing the tracking information too. I do not think it would be wise to elaborate on that on this or any other list. It can be seriously abused. It is sometimes too.

You are overestimating the amount of work spammers are willing to put into collecting 1300 addresses :)

The people who make use of the tracking info in the email aren't spammers. They are into other things. Some times malicious things.

I guess by tracking info you mean delivery headers in the email. If you are really concerned about someone tracking _your_ steps, its not the list who should take the necessary precautions, but you in general. Email is then also not the best way to communicate. Because by protocol its trackable. Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Evens Garde

5 Jun 5 Jun

19:27

Henne Vogelsang wrote:

...

Hi,

On Thursday, June 05, 2008 at 12:32:28, John wrote:

...
After joining this board I noticed that my spam rocketted. I've noticed the same sort of effect on other boards but not so marked.

As you can see this list is popular with all kinds of folks :)

...
Some boards encourage people to use the list address for "to" and "reply to" that way everybody always gets to see the answer. This list always always sets "reply to" to my own email address.

Not this discussion again. Please search the list archives for reply-to.

Papers with "considered harmful" in the title considered harmful. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

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15 participants

participants (15)

Carlos E. R.
Carlos E. R.
Dave Plater
David Bolt
Doug McGarrett
Evens Garde
Fergus Wilde
Fred A. Miller
Henne Vogelsang
jdd sur free
John
John Andersen
Rajko M.
Randall R Schulz
Richard Ibbotson