[SLE] ksmarttray doesn't reflect true status unless run as root
Hi all, I'm using smart to keep my system up-to-date. Has anyone else found a solution to the apparent need to run the tray app as root? If I click the ignore button, it runs as my user, from then on without bugging me for the root password every login. Unfortunately it doesn't detect new packages. I have to either login to a console as root and run the update from the CLI, or start the smart gui. In the end it makes the ksmarttray app useless or alternatively irritating by requiring root password every login. The only workaround I can think off at the moment is to run it suid, but is this really necessary? Have I missed something? -- Steve Boddy -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
On Wednesday 26 July 2006 16:38, Stephen Boddy wrote:
The only workaround I can think off at the moment is to run it suid, but is this really necessary? Have I missed something?
Well, I just tried this, and it doesn't work. Some error message about the kdelibs not being designed to use suid. Any other ideas? -- Steve Boddy -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
Stephen Boddy wrote:
Hi all,
I'm using smart to keep my system up-to-date. Has anyone else found a solution to the apparent need to run the tray app as root?
If I click the ignore button, it runs as my user, from then on without bugging me for the root password every login. Unfortunately it doesn't detect new packages. I have to either login to a console as root and run the update from the CLI, or start the smart gui.
In the end it makes the ksmarttray app useless or alternatively irritating by requiring root password every login.
The only workaround I can think off at the moment is to run it suid, but is this really necessary? Have I missed something?
You don't really expect to allow a user to update a system, do you? If you try to update the system as a user, smart or YOU or whatever will ask you for the root's password because only root has access to the update facility. In fact you cannot access the Yast Control Centre without entering the root's password if you are logged in as a user. I found that smart had a little hassle when it was version 0.41 about how it handled the request for the root's password but it was fixed (if in fact there was a problem and it was only me doing something wrong) in 0.42 which you should install if you haven't already. Cheers. -- This computer is environment-friendly and is running on OpenSuSE 10.1 -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
On Wednesday 26 July 2006 17:24, Basil Chupin wrote:
Stephen Boddy wrote:
Hi all,
I'm using smart to keep my system up-to-date. Has anyone else found a solution to the apparent need to run the tray app as root?
If I click the ignore button, it runs as my user, from then on without bugging me for the root password every login. Unfortunately it doesn't detect new packages. I have to either login to a console as root and run the update from the CLI, or start the smart gui.
In the end it makes the ksmarttray app useless or alternatively irritating by requiring root password every login.
The only workaround I can think off at the moment is to run it suid, but is this really necessary? Have I missed something?
You don't really expect to allow a user to update a system, do you?
Err... No. But then that's not the problem. My problem is that ksmarttray (which is supposed to inform me of available updates) does not work unless it is run as root. So everytime I log on I have to enter the password to the see the notifications of updates. This rather defeats it's purpose in my view. As the primary user and administrator I need to know when there are updates, preferably without having to start smart --gui or starting up a root console to check. With the SuSE-watcher, it ran as a regular user, and had the facility to check if there were available updates. It then notified me by turning red, and from there I could launch YOU as root. At no point was a root password needed for the SuSE-watcher. -- Steve Boddy -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
On Wednesday 26 July 2006 17:39, Stephen Boddy wrote:
On Wednesday 26 July 2006 17:24, Basil Chupin wrote:
Stephen Boddy wrote:
Hi all,
I'm using smart to keep my system up-to-date. Has anyone else found a solution to the apparent need to run the tray app as root?
If I click the ignore button, it runs as my user, from then on without bugging me for the root password every login. Unfortunately it doesn't detect new packages. I have to either login to a console as root and run the update from the CLI, or start the smart gui.
Basil, just in case I introduced confusion, when I use the word "update" I'm using it in the smart sense where it updates the cached channel info, not the actual packages on the system. Installation uses the "upgrade" command, and yes, I would fully expect to have to enter root password for this. Just elaborating in case my response below came over as snotty. Not my intention. :-)
In the end it makes the ksmarttray app useless or alternatively irritating by requiring root password every login.
The only workaround I can think off at the moment is to run it suid, but is this really necessary? Have I missed something?
You don't really expect to allow a user to update a system, do you?
Err... No. But then that's not the problem.
My problem is that ksmarttray (which is supposed to inform me of available updates) does not work unless it is run as root. So everytime I log on I have to enter the password to the see the notifications of updates. This rather defeats it's purpose in my view. As the primary user and administrator I need to know when there are updates, preferably without having to start smart --gui or starting up a root console to check.
With the SuSE-watcher, it ran as a regular user, and had the facility to check if there were available updates. It then notified me by turning red, and from there I could launch YOU as root. At no point was a root password needed for the SuSE-watcher. -- Steve Boddy
-- Steve Boddy -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
Stephen Boddy wrote:
On Wednesday 26 July 2006 17:39, Stephen Boddy wrote:
On Wednesday 26 July 2006 17:24, Basil Chupin wrote:
Stephen Boddy wrote:
Hi all,
I'm using smart to keep my system up-to-date. Has anyone else found a solution to the apparent need to run the tray app as root?
If I click the ignore button, it runs as my user, from then on without bugging me for the root password every login. Unfortunately it doesn't detect new packages. I have to either login to a console as root and run the update from the CLI, or start the smart gui.
Basil, just in case I introduced confusion, when I use the word "update" I'm using it in the smart sense where it updates the cached channel info, not the actual packages on the system. Installation uses the "upgrade" command, and yes, I would fully expect to have to enter root password for this. Just elaborating in case my response below came over as snotty. Not my intention. :-)
Nope, didn't even consider seeing it in that light.
In the end it makes the ksmarttray app useless or alternatively irritating by requiring root password every login.
The only workaround I can think off at the moment is to run it suid, but is this really necessary? Have I missed something? You don't really expect to allow a user to update a system, do you? Err... No. But then that's not the problem.
My problem is that ksmarttray (which is supposed to inform me of available updates) does not work unless it is run as root. So everytime I log on I have to enter the password to the see the notifications of updates. This rather defeats it's purpose in my view. As the primary user and administrator I need to know when there are updates, preferably without having to start smart --gui or starting up a root console to check.
With the SuSE-watcher, it ran as a regular user, and had the facility to check if there were available updates. It then notified me by turning red, and from there I could launch YOU as root. At no point was a root password needed for the SuSE-watcher.
When you logon and the smart menu thingie comes up and asks you for the root password, there is the option (from memory) to IGNORE it. Ignore it. smart will then operate in "user mode" and if there are updates to be done *then* you will be asked for the root's password when you go to update. (This was the 'hassle' I was talking about in v0.41 of smart which disappeared in v0.42.) Re the updating of info about new updates being available, I find that going into the smart Manager and Updating the Channels manually is what needs to be done occasionally. Don't forget that smart is only in its infancy (it's beta 0.42) and manual intervention is probably still required at this point in time. The icon in the system tray sometime comes up with new updates being available and sometimes not. Cheers. -- This computer is environment-friendly and is running on OpenSuSE 10.1 -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
On Thursday 27 July 2006 03:34, Basil Chupin wrote:
Stephen Boddy wrote:
On Wednesday 26 July 2006 17:39, Stephen Boddy wrote:
On Wednesday 26 July 2006 17:24, Basil Chupin wrote:
Stephen Boddy wrote:
Hi all,
I'm using smart to keep my system up-to-date. Has anyone else found a solution to the apparent need to run the tray app as root?
If I click the ignore button, it runs as my user, from then on without bugging me for the root password every login. Unfortunately it doesn't detect new packages. I have to either login to a console as root and run the update from the CLI, or start the smart gui.
Basil, just in case I introduced confusion, when I use the word "update" I'm using it in the smart sense where it updates the cached channel info, not the actual packages on the system. Installation uses the "upgrade" command, and yes, I would fully expect to have to enter root password for this. Just elaborating in case my response below came over as snotty. Not my intention. :-)
Nope, didn't even consider seeing it in that light.
In the end it makes the ksmarttray app useless or alternatively irritating by requiring root password every login.
The only workaround I can think off at the moment is to run it suid, but is this really necessary? Have I missed something?
You don't really expect to allow a user to update a system, do you?
Err... No. But then that's not the problem.
My problem is that ksmarttray (which is supposed to inform me of available updates) does not work unless it is run as root. So everytime I log on I have to enter the password to the see the notifications of updates. This rather defeats it's purpose in my view. As the primary user and administrator I need to know when there are updates, preferably without having to start smart --gui or starting up a root console to check.
With the SuSE-watcher, it ran as a regular user, and had the facility to check if there were available updates. It then notified me by turning red, and from there I could launch YOU as root. At no point was a root password needed for the SuSE-watcher.
When you logon and the smart menu thingie comes up and asks you for the root password, there is the option (from memory) to IGNORE it. Ignore it. smart will then operate in "user mode" and if there are updates to be done *then* you will be asked for the root's password when you go to update. (This was the 'hassle' I was talking about in v0.41 of smart which disappeared in v0.42.)
Re the updating of info about new updates being available, I find that going into the smart Manager and Updating the Channels manually is what needs to be done occasionally. Don't forget that smart is only in its infancy (it's beta 0.42) and manual intervention is probably still required at this point in time. The icon in the system tray sometime comes up with new updates being available and sometimes not.
Yeah, thinking on this the best way is probably to ignore the password so that it always starts as a regular user process, and have a seperate cron job to do the "smart update" command. Then when the tray icon does it's checks it tanks on the "smart update" part, but when it does the "smart check" it reads the results after the cron job. This will then blink the icon. (I've looked at the source for ksmarttray, and it literally runs those shell commands) All this just seems a bit clunky and redundant for what should be a simple little user level notifier. The additional beneift is the update command can be nice'd to hopefully reduce any perceived impact of running the update regularly. -- Steve Boddy -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
Stephen Boddy wrote:
On Thursday 27 July 2006 03:34, Basil Chupin wrote:
Stephen Boddy wrote:
[pruned]
Re the updating of info about new updates being available, I find that going into the smart Manager and Updating the Channels manually is what needs to be done occasionally. Don't forget that smart is only in its infancy (it's beta 0.42) and manual intervention is probably still required at this point in time. The icon in the system tray sometime comes up with new updates being available and sometimes not.
Yeah, thinking on this the best way is probably to ignore the password so that it always starts as a regular user process, and have a seperate cron job to do the "smart update" command. Then when the tray icon does it's checks it tanks on the "smart update" part, but when it does the "smart check" it reads the results after the cron job. This will then blink the icon. (I've looked at the source for ksmarttray, and it literally runs those shell commands)
I guess I am just a bit 'confused' (which matters not) about your concerns because the tray icon DOES blink when there are new updates available for installation. The only thing I find wrong with this blinking is that once you put the cursor on the icon the blinking stops. And the other thing I would like to see is it change colour to indicate new updates like the icon for the zmd/zen/YOU - but this, and the previous point, is only a cosmetic thing and really of no great import.
All this just seems a bit clunky and redundant for what should be a simple little user level notifier. The additional beneift is the update command can be nice'd to hopefully reduce any perceived impact of running the update regularly.
Cheers. -- This computer is environment-friendly and is running on OpenSuSE 10.1 -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
On Thursday 27 July 2006 08:26, Basil Chupin wrote:
I guess I am just a bit 'confused' (which matters not) about your concerns because the tray icon DOES blink when there are new updates available for installation. The only thing I find wrong with this blinking is that once you put the cursor on the icon the blinking stops. And the other thing I would like to see is it change colour to indicate new updates like the icon for the zmd/zen/YOU - but this, and the previous point, is only a cosmetic thing and really of no great import.
Ah! Then we have come to the crux of the confusion. My system absolutely does not blink when there are updates. If ksmarttray is running as a regular user, the channel update command does not work. Try it from the shell as your normal user. You should get "error: Configuration is in readonly mode." because you shouldn't have the necessary privileges to update the cached information. The only way this could be working for you is if you either: - somehow have smart configured to work from a config/cache that your user has read/write permissions for, - perhaps your user is part of the wheel group or something like that, or - you have a crontab configured to run the smart update command as root. (This is my current solution) I agree with you about the icon states. Worth noting that if you do cancel the blinking without upgrading, then the blinking should restart after an hour. Even without the blinking the tootltip will always give you the info also. -- Steve Boddy -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
Stephen Boddy wrote:
On Thursday 27 July 2006 08:26, Basil Chupin wrote:
I guess I am just a bit 'confused' (which matters not) about your concerns because the tray icon DOES blink when there are new updates available for installation. The only thing I find wrong with this blinking is that once you put the cursor on the icon the blinking stops. And the other thing I would like to see is it change colour to indicate new updates like the icon for the zmd/zen/YOU - but this, and the previous point, is only a cosmetic thing and really of no great import.
Ah! Then we have come to the crux of the confusion. My system absolutely does not blink when there are updates. If ksmarttray is running as a regular user, the channel update command does not work. Try it from the shell as your normal user. You should get "error: Configuration is in readonly mode." because you shouldn't have the necessary privileges to update the cached information.
The only way this could be working for you is if you either: - somehow have smart configured to work from a config/cache that your user has read/write permissions for, - perhaps your user is part of the wheel group or something like that, or - you have a crontab configured to run the smart update command as root. (This is my current solution)
I agree with you about the icon states. Worth noting that if you do cancel the blinking without upgrading, then the blinking should restart after an hour. Even without the blinking the tootltip will always give you the info also.
I am not having the problem you describe. I can update as a user from the icon in the system tray (after I enter the root password, of course). I cannot remember the beginning of this thread and therefore have to ask: which version of smart are you running? If you are running the one which comes with SuSE 10.1 then uninstall it and install the latest one (0.42) at the following URL: http://labix.org/smart and it is the one for SuSE by Pascal Bleser - and get the one for your CPU (the x86 or the x86_64). You don't need the one with 'debuginfo' in its name so there are 5 rpms to download. This set of packages also has the channels already configured (but you need to activate some) and, fo course, you can add to them. (While you are on that site why not join the smart forum there? The author(s) of smart are active there so you can discuss matters directly with him/them.) Cheers. -- This computer is environment-friendly and is running on OpenSuSE 10.1 -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
On Thursday 27 July 2006 17:06, Basil Chupin wrote:
Stephen Boddy wrote:
On Thursday 27 July 2006 08:26, Basil Chupin wrote:
I guess I am just a bit 'confused' (which matters not) about your concerns because the tray icon DOES blink when there are new updates available for installation. The only thing I find wrong with this blinking is that once you put the cursor on the icon the blinking stops. And the other thing I would like to see is it change colour to indicate new updates like the icon for the zmd/zen/YOU - but this, and the previous point, is only a cosmetic thing and really of no great import.
Ah! Then we have come to the crux of the confusion. My system absolutely does not blink when there are updates. If ksmarttray is running as a regular user, the channel update command does not work. Try it from the shell as your normal user. You should get "error: Configuration is in readonly mode." because you shouldn't have the necessary privileges to update the cached information.
The only way this could be working for you is if you either: - somehow have smart configured to work from a config/cache that your user has read/write permissions for, - perhaps your user is part of the wheel group or something like that, or - you have a crontab configured to run the smart update command as root. (This is my current solution)
I agree with you about the icon states. Worth noting that if you do cancel the blinking without upgrading, then the blinking should restart after an hour. Even without the blinking the tootltip will always give you the info also.
I am not having the problem you describe. I can update as a user from the icon in the system tray (after I enter the root password, of course).
Yeah, I think we're both still not on the same wavelength/terminology here TBH. At the risk of flogging the proverbial deceased horse: There are three pertinant smart operations: check - Is smart cache aware of any updates update - Look for new packages on repos, and update cache upgrade - Install new packages from repos. The old (<=10.0) susewatcher tray app could do the equivalent of update & check without requiring root password or priv. The Smart equivalent of the susewatcher app (ksmarttray) can only do check unless you run it as root. I do not want to enter the root password every time I login. By clicking on the ksmarttray I also am able to enter my root password, and upgrade packages, but unless I enter my root password at login I will not see the blinking tray icon to tell me I need to click on the thing.
I cannot remember the beginning of this thread and therefore have to ask: which version of smart are you running? If you are running the one which comes with SuSE 10.1 then uninstall it and install the latest one (0.42) at the following URL:
and it is the one for SuSE by Pascal Bleser - and get the one for your CPU (the x86 or the x86_64). You don't need the one with 'debuginfo' in its name so there are 5 rpms to download. This set of packages also has the channels already configured (but you need to activate some) and, fo course, you can add to them.
I'm up-to-date with the guru smart packages (0.42-1)
(While you are on that site why not join the smart forum there? The author(s) of smart are active there so you can discuss matters directly with him/them.)
Strewth! I can barely keep up with the SuSE and MythTV mail list I'm already on. Might make some suggestions though. I was half tempted to try and make some minor changes/updates to ksmarttray. If only I knew C++ ;-) Anyway, thanks for the discourse. It helped me solidify my thinking, and come up with a temporary workaround (the cron job). -- Steve Boddy -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
Stephen Boddy wrote:
On Thursday 27 July 2006 17:06, Basil Chupin wrote:
[pruned]
I am not having the problem you describe. I can update as a user from the icon in the system tray (after I enter the root password, of course).
Yeah, I think we're both still not on the same wavelength/terminology here TBH. At the risk of flogging the proverbial deceased horse:
There are three pertinant smart operations: check - Is smart cache aware of any updates update - Look for new packages on repos, and update cache upgrade - Install new packages from repos.
The old (<=10.0) susewatcher tray app could do the equivalent of update & check without requiring root password or priv. The Smart equivalent of the susewatcher app (ksmarttray) can only do check unless you run it as root. I do not want to enter the root password every time I login.
Well, we are slowly narrowing it down... At my end, smart, in the system tray, does do the update and checking without requiring the root password. When there are updates, the icon blinks. Only when I want to actually do an upgrade do I need to enter the root password. As I mentioned earlier, had you not entered the root password at the first running of smart - where you had the option of answering IGNORE - then you will not be asked to enter the root password. In fact, I think, from memory, you are asked for the root password at every logon so next time answer IGNORE. smart remembers this setting and won't ask you for it (it doesn't do it at my end) and the icon in the system tray will be running in "user mode". (Perhaps re-installing smart might make it behave 'normally'?)
By clicking on the ksmarttray I also am able to enter my root password, and upgrade packages, but unless I enter my root password at login
See above.
I will not see the blinking tray icon to tell me I need to click on the thing.
[pruned]
(While you are on that site why not join the smart forum there? The author(s) of smart are active there so you can discuss matters directly with him/them.)
Strewth! I can barely keep up with the SuSE and MythTV mail list I'm already on. Might make some suggestions though. I was half tempted to try and make some minor changes/updates to ksmarttray. If only I knew C++ ;-)
:-) There isn't much traffic in that forum - unlike here - so you won't be overwhelmed. Less than 10 msgs/week roughly.
Anyway, thanks for the discourse. It helped me solidify my thinking, and come up with a temporary workaround (the cron job).
Cheers. -- This computer is environment-friendly and is running on OpenSuSE 10.1 -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
participants (2)
-
Basil Chupin -
Stephen Boddy