Paul Neuwirth wrote:

On Mar 12 2014 12:03, Per Jessen wrote:

...

Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 12:03:22 +0100 From: Per Jessen To: opensuse@opensuse.org Subject: Re: [opensuse] switch from 32bit opensuse to 64bit

Paul Neuwirth wrote:

...

Hallo, I accidently installed 32 bit opensuse on several machines. Is there an easy way to switch to 64bit? such as adding 86_64 repos and zypper --dup --allow-architecture-change (unfortunately this option doesn't exist)? Any hints? A notice in the setup, that a 32bit os is going to be installed on a 64bit system would be very nice...

:-) It might be intentional. 32bit apps use less memory, if you run :a lot of them, there's more room with a 32bit os.

just a little warning "are you sure..." not something looking fatal.. lack of this took me hours..

Should be easy to do in YaST somewhere. Maybe the installation summary.

btw. now trying to install on raid using a local disk and a iscsi disk.. would give a try for AOE, but that seems not to be implemented very much..

iscsi works very well, but I don't think it's being tested much in openSUSE. We use it quite a bit. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (11.8°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - your free DNS host, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 03/12/2014 02:59 PM, Cristian Rodríguez wrote:

Commercial distribution vendors (SUSE/ Redhat) are not going to release any 32 bit versions any more.

Does this mean that SLES12 will be 64-bit-only? Have a nice day, Berny -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

-- Greg Freemyer On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 10:31 AM, Cristian Rodríguez wrote:

El 12/03/14 11:04, Bernhard Voelker escribió:

...

On 03/12/2014 02:59 PM, Cristian Rodríguez wrote:

...

Commercial distribution vendors (SUSE/ Redhat) are not going

...

to release any 32 bit versions any more.

Does this mean that SLES12 will be 64-bit-only?

You will have to check the status of that by becoming a member of the beta program https://www.suse.com/company/press/2014/2/suse-linux-enterprise-12-beta-avai...

That said, looking at the information that is already public, SLE 12 will only come out for 64 bit systems..just like as RHEL 7 will.

Jeff Mahoney, SUSE Labs, has publicly said no 32-bit SLES kernels for SLE12 http://markmail.org/message/v4wxb3wthyn3t2nw Greg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 1:24 PM, Bernhard Voelker wrote:

On 03/12/2014 06:15 PM, Greg Freemyer wrote:

...

Jeff Mahoney, SUSE Labs, has publicly said no 32-bit SLES kernels for SLE12

Okay, but applications could still be compiled as 32bit executables by using 32bit libs (and thus e.g. be "smaller", as indicated in a few mails above), right?

Agreed, but for SLES I am pretty sure they are targeting bigger machines. For openSUSE, there is no indication that 32-bit distros is being dropped. So for the foreseeable time I suspect if you want 32-bit, you should be fine using openSUSE. Admittedly, the 32-bit kernels are about to start getting less high-end testing by the enterprise releases. I'm not sure how much that matters. openSUSE was typically releasing kernels that SLES wasn't using, so they weren't performing high-end testing on those kernels anyway, were they? Greg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Wednesday, March 12, 2014 04:35:31 PM Cristian Rodríguez wrote:

El 12/03/14 16:12, Greg Freemyer escribió:

...

So for the foreseeable time I suspect if you want 32-bit, you should be fine using openSUSE. Admittedly, the 32-bit kernels are about to start getting less high-end testing by the enterprise releases. I'm not sure how much that matters. openSUSE was typically releasing kernels that SLES wasn't using, so they weren't performing high-end testing on those kernels anyway, were they?

Well, I am of the opinion that we should drop the 32 bit x86 openSUSE at some point in the near future (14.x for example) . My opinion of course is not popular, so I 'll let it be..people will eventually come to sanity again when the inevitable quality drop to rock bottom becomes a problem.

I just remember some news, maybe on 2012, announcing Linux will stop x86 on future kernels. Sadly, I can not find it now. http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTE2NzE Regards, R.Chung -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 6:20 PM, jdd wrote:

Le 12/03/2014 20:35, Cristian Rodríguez a écrit :

...

Well, I am of the opinion that we should drop the 32 bit x86 openSUSE at some point in the near future (14.x for example) . My opinion of course is not popular, so I 'll let it be..people will eventually come to sanity again when the inevitable quality drop to rock bottom becomes a problem.

could start dropping it from demo dvd, but there still lot of 32bits machines around

jdd

The free VMplayer is 32-bit only. Thus on my 64-bit windows 7 machine I have various 32-bit openSUSE VMs. I'd hate to see 32-bit dropped due to both physical and VM 32-bit needs. Greg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 9:07 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2014-03-13 00:34, Greg Freemyer wrote:

...

The free VMplayer is 32-bit only.

Huh? The version I have is 64 bits, running on 64 bit hardware and OS (openSUSE), with 64 and 32 bit guests.

I guess I'm totally confused. I'll try to download a 64-bit ISO and install it. If it fails I'l be back. Greg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Thursday, March 13, 2014 02:11:03 AM Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2014-03-12 23:20, jdd wrote:

...

could start dropping it from demo dvd, but there still lot of 32bits machines around

Probably more than 64 bit machines.

I'd guess that many of the XP expatriates that we want to welcome to our camp have 32 bit hardware.

Of the three machines I use at home, one is 32 bit. And several more I seldom use, are of course 32 bit, but those will not be updated.

+1 I agree we have an opportunity to give an happy welcome to Linux for all those XP ready to drop their PC through out their 'windows' (mostly 32-bit). Anyway, I do not believe Linux kernel will drop the 32-bit before version 3.20 or any that closer as we think. Chances are we have two or three years extended support before it happens. And that would be enough time to migrate to new CPU's (64-bit) or Not? Regards, R. Chung -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

В Wed, 12 Mar 2014 16:35:31 -0300 Cristian Rodríguez пишет:

El 12/03/14 16:12, Greg Freemyer escribió:

Well, I am of the opinion that we should drop the 32 bit x86 openSUSE at some point in the near future (14.x for example) . My opinion of course is not popular, so I 'll let it be..people will eventually come to sanity again when the inevitable quality drop to rock bottom becomes a problem.

I cannot run 64 bit VM on my notebook (apparently it lacks proper HW virtualization support) so killing 32 bit distribution would put a stop to my work on distro testing. Not a big deal, sure ... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 2014-03-13 08:44, Per Jessen wrote:

Oh, I strongly intend to continue doing this. At times I have maybe 25000+ postfix processes running, spread across a number of systems running 32bit. On 64bit systems they would gobble up much too much memory so I would need a lot more boxes.

But if this happens, it is bad coding. Programs do not need to use 64 bit variables just because they are available. They can just as well keep using as small a variable as they really need. Another issue is variable packing. The compiler might align small variables on bigger limits (64 bit?), which would nullify the effort to conserve memory. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

On 2014-03-13 13:20, Andrey Borzenkov wrote:

В Thu, 13 Mar 2014 12:37:15 +0100 "Carlos E. R." пишет:

...

But if this happens, it is bad coding. Programs do not need to use 64 bit variables just because they are available.

You have no choice with pointers.

My 86' assembler is very rusty, I worked more with the 68000. IIRC, you could do "short jumps", in which the destination address was relative to the current program counter. I never remember what model Linux uses, but don't we have short jumps? -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

On 2014-03-14 08:48, Per Jessen wrote:

Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

On 2014-03-13 13:20, Andrey Borzenkov wrote:

...

В Thu, 13 Mar 2014 12:37:15 +0100 "Carlos E. R." <> пишет:

...

...

You have no choice with pointers.

My 86' assembler is very rusty, I worked more with the 68000. IIRC, you could do "short jumps", in which the destination address was relative to the current program counter.

I never remember what model Linux uses, but don't we have short jumps?

The flat memory model. Segment registers aren't used anymore, although FS and GS may still be used.

Then, no short or relative jumps? Say "jmp +125"? (Maybe someone told me this before, but I don't remember. Sigh...) -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2014-03-13 08:44, Per Jessen wrote:

...

Oh, I strongly intend to continue doing this. At times I have maybe 25000+ postfix processes running, spread across a number of systems running 32bit. On 64bit systems they would gobble up much too much memory so I would need a lot more boxes.

But if this happens, it is bad coding. Programs do not need to use 64 bit variables just because they are available. They can just as well keep using as small a variable as they really need.

I can assure you it happens. As Andrey said already, it's about pointers. With a few processes it's no big deal, but 32bit I can run a lot more processes per system than with 64bit. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (14.6°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - free dynamic DNS, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2014-03-13 15:29, Per Jessen wrote:

...

Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

...

But if this happens, it is bad coding. Programs do not need to use 64 bit variables just because they are available. They can just as well keep using as small a variable as they really need.

I can assure you it happens. As Andrey said already, it's about pointers.

But surely pointers can not be the larger part of the needed storage, is it?

I agree it seems unlikely, but because everything has to accomodate a 64bit address, the stack is also suddenly twice as big, for instance.

...

With a few processes it's no big deal, but 32bit I can run a lot more processes per system than with 64bit.

Well, if you have tried the experiment both ways, and the memory footprint is bigger, then obviously I believe you :-)

You can also observe it yourself if you have two systems to compare. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (6.4°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - free dynamic DNS, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2014-03-14 08:30, Per Jessen wrote:

...

Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

...

With a few processes it's no big deal, but 32bit I can run a lot more processes per system than with 64bit.

Well, if you have tried the experiment both ways, and the memory footprint is bigger, then obviously I believe you :-)

You can also observe it yourself if you have two systems to compare.

I don't see a way I could have that many postfix processes in a virtual machine :-)

Hehe, you don't need a lot, just a few to compare their memory footprint. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (0.0°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - your free DNS host, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Linda Walsh wrote:

Per Jessen wrote:

...

Paul Neuwirth wrote:

...

Hallo, I accidently installed 32 bit opensuse on several machines. Is there an easy way to switch to 64bit? such as adding 86_64 repos and zypper --dup --allow-architecture-change (unfortunately this option doesn't exist)? Any hints? A notice in the setup, that a 32bit os is going to be installed on a 64bit system would be very nice...

:-) It might be intentional. 32bit apps use less memory, if you run a lot of them, there's more room with a 32bit os.

Would be easy to tell -- if the user has >=8G, go for 64-bit, else ask?

Yep, not a bad idea. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (5.6°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - virtual servers, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Hans Witvliet wrote:

On Thu, 2014-03-13 at 08:41 +0100, Per Jessen wrote:

...

Linda Walsh wrote:

...

Per Jessen wrote:

...

Paul Neuwirth wrote:

...

Hallo, I accidently installed 32 bit opensuse on several machines. Is there an easy way to switch to 64bit? such as adding 86_64 repos and zypper --dup --allow-architecture-change (unfortunately this option doesn't exist)? Any hints? A notice in the setup, that a 32bit os is going to be installed on a 64bit system would be very nice...

:-) It might be intentional. 32bit apps use less memory, if you :run a lot of them, there's more room with a 32bit os.

Would be easy to tell -- if the user has >=8G, go for 64-bit, else ask?

Yep, not a bad idea.

Put the limit much lower: If the system has <4G go 32bit Not only older hardware, but also for virtual machines.

The area just above 4G could be covered with 32-bit with PAE, but that should be considered duck-tape from the past.

Yeah, YaST already has some checks on amount of available memory, so adding a little "Are you sure?" when someone wants to install 32bit on a machine with 4Gb or more should be easy. Nice little opportunity for someone to dabble with YaST development. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (6.9°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - dedicated server rental in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2014-03-13 09:06, Hans Witvliet wrote:

...

On Thu, 2014-03-13 at 08:41 +0100, Per Jessen wrote:

...

Put the limit much lower: If the system has <4G go 32bit Not only older hardware, but also for virtual machines.

That's another intersting point. If you setup small virtual machines for specialized whatever tasks, maybe it makes sense to use 32 bit oses on them.

---- even in a virutal machine, the native word size will still affect performance. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org