On 12/05/06, Peter Van Lone wrote:

On 5/12/06, Dave Crouse wrote:

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Subject: Re: [SLE] SuSE interview Greg Mancusi-Ungaro

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Please, just tell people to use KDE.

Linus ------------------

Good enough for me ;)

yes, and Nat's reply at:

http://mail.gnome.org/archives/usability/2005-December/msg00025.html

sets a tone that I prefer.

I think this "KDE vs Gnome" thing is tribal. And it's counter-productive. As I said earlier, at this point I prefer KDE, also. But for people to say things like "gnome sux, it's worthless and plague" is just ... dumb.

Any sentient being can see that gnome is, like KDE, a strong though not-perfect desktop. Some people don't like the gnome approach/appearance/functionality, etc ... others do.

There is a difference between "this sux" and "I don't prefer this".

Seems to me that more people in the linux community would benefit from noticing the distinction.

Well, to clarify my stance on this. I still believe that SuSE/Novell would like to drop official support for KDE sometime in the future. That's my take after reading that interview. However, I prefer KDE but I would not want to see support for Gnome being dropped. I don't give flying hoot which desktop is supposedly default. They could have Fluxbox for all I care. I do care about choice. I would like to see full support for all the desktops that are available to use. Each one has its own merits and its own downsides. -- ============================================== I am only human, please forgive me if I make a mistake it is not deliberate. ============================================== PLEASE DON'T drink and drive it's not clever, it's just stupid. Kevan Farmer Linux user #373362 Cheslyn Hay Staffordshire WS6 7HR

On 13/05/06, Andreas Jaeger wrote:

Kevanf1 writes:

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Well, to clarify my stance on this. I still believe that SuSE/Novell would like to drop official support for KDE sometime in the future.

This is your personal believe and I cannot change it - but this is not shared by Novell, we do support both and plan to continue so,

Andreas

Exactly. Thank you Andreas. It is my 'personal' belief of which we are all entitled. Others are entitled to interpret the interview in their own way. This is what I have tried to convey. I suppose that my reason for pushing this to the fore once again si to stimulate debate on the issue. I certainly don't want to cause silly arguments. I merely want to give SuSE/Novell a very awareness that the SuSE community is still passionate about keeping KDE. Please support as many desktops as possible, including Gnome :-))) -- ============================================== I am only human, please forgive me if I make a mistake it is not deliberate. ============================================== PLEASE DON'T drink and drive it's not clever, it's just stupid. Kevan Farmer Linux user #373362 Cheslyn Hay Staffordshire WS6 7HR

On 13/05/06, Andreas Jaeger wrote:

Kevanf1 writes:

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[...] I suppose that my reason for pushing this to the fore once again si to stimulate debate on the issue. I certainly don't want to cause silly arguments. I merely want to give SuSE/Novell a very awareness that the SuSE community is still passionate about keeping KDE.

The SUSE and Novell developers and managers are as well passionate about KDE and GNOME. :-)

...

Please support as many desktops as possible, including Gnome :-)))

We'll give our best, ;-) Andreas

It's all we can ask for, Andreas. Believe me, it really is appreciated, certainly by me. Keep up the fantastic work. -- ============================================== I am only human, please forgive me if I make a mistake it is not deliberate. ============================================== PLEASE DON'T drink and drive it's not clever, it's just stupid. Kevan Farmer Linux user #373362 Cheslyn Hay Staffordshire WS6 7HR

I never think a discussion is totally counter-productive ;) Flaming is counter-productive, but not discussion, so I don't totally agree with Nat here. I for one just hate to see Novell do something "just because RedHat does" .... with that mentality, you might as well try to emulate M$, since they are even bigger yet. However, as long as KDE is an option, it matters not to me at all what's the "default" window manager. As for Nat's tone... he was pretty flippant about what Linux said.. "So, yes, usability is important and Linus being able to bind his mouse buttons to whatever he wants is important, I guess." ...... yes, i GUESS it is. At least if i was on the development team, it SHOULD be a factor anyway, I would think. I'm a "use what works" type of guy myself. I use KDE when the hardware will support it, a *box wm when it won't, or i'm fine with the command line when that fails too.... I think choice is great, and one of the great things that keep Linux interesting. I just don't ever want to see OpenSUSE/Novell go down the GNOME onlyl road, and FWIW, I doubt that will happen. On 5/12/06, Peter Van Lone wrote:

On 5/12/06, Dave Crouse wrote:

...

Subject: Re: [SLE] SuSE interview Greg Mancusi-Ungaro

...

Please, just tell people to use KDE.

Linus ------------------

Good enough for me ;)

yes, and Nat's reply at:

http://mail.gnome.org/archives/usability/2005-December/msg00025.html

sets a tone that I prefer.

I think this "KDE vs Gnome" thing is tribal. And it's counter-productive. As I said earlier, at this point I prefer KDE, also. But for people to say things like "gnome sux, it's worthless and plague" is just ... dumb.

Any sentient being can see that gnome is, like KDE, a strong though not-perfect desktop. Some people don't like the gnome approach/appearance/functionality, etc ... others do.

There is a difference between "this sux" and "I don't prefer this".

Seems to me that more people in the linux community would benefit from noticing the distinction.

-- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com

Am Freitag, den 12.05.2006, 20:03 -0400 schrieb James Knott:

Although I also prefer KDE, one thing to bear in mind, is that enterprise users often need simple. I do computer support for a living and to call some users "idiots" is to be kind. ;-)

I've had my share of apparently dumb computer users. The ones who cause most problems are the users who believe they know everything (better). I vividly remember having to help out my boss when he broke his [enter arbitrary application here] again. In such a scenario gnome with defaults is actually "maintenance friendlier" than KDE, which allows the user to spend hours tweaking the various aspects of the desktop.

There are some really dumb users. Some of them even make George Bush look sharp! ;-)

you're a canuck, eh? :P -- Gruß Andreas