On Thursday, February 09, 2012 08:35:38 AM phanisvara das wrote:

On Thu, 09 Feb 2012 05:17:27 +0530, Basil Chupin

wrote:

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On 09/02/12 10:32, Swapnil Bhartiya wrote:

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When can we expect KDE 4.8 update on openSUSE 12.1?

Swapnil

It's already there - been there for at least a couple of weeks and I have been using it since.

Where to get it was given in a post in this list by Phanisvara Das on 31 January.

now there's an additional option for using KDE 4.8, with KDE:/Distro:/Factory (http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/Distro:/Factory/ ).

even though that's supposedly less stable than the repos under KDE:/Release, i usually prefer them, since bug fixes appear earlier. of course, using KDF, one also has to switch any additional repos, like KDE:/Extra and KDE:/Unstable:/Playground, to the versions built against KDF.

i switched to KDF a few days ago and find that some bugs i saw in the Release:/ version have been fixed already, like .xcf (GIMP) files not showing in digikam & gwenview, per example, or ark refusing to start.

I switched to KR48 SC after an upgrade from oS 11.3 to 11.4. And I find this KDE version quite stable and almost would say bugs free. e.g.: Choqok usually used to crash when I quit on all previous versions. I doen't on the KR48SC. As far I tested other applications with no issues. Calligra Suite is working pretty fine as far too. Regards, -- Ricardo Chung | Panama Linux Ambassador openSUSE Projects -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

...

i switched to KDF a few days ago and find that some bugs i saw in the Release:/ version have been fixed already, like .xcf (GIMP) files not showing in digikam & gwenview, per example, or ark refusing to start.

Thanks A LOT. I will test it now one machine to see how stable it is.

It's going to be a pretty undramatic test... in terms of stability... it's better than 4.7 (assuming KDF). There area a few minor hiccups, but nothing that makes it a bad idea to use as your everyday desktop. C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 08:51, phanisvara das wrote:

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It's going to be a pretty undramatic test... in terms of stability... it's better than 4.7 (assuming KDF).  There area a few minor hiccups, but nothing that makes it a bad idea to use as your everyday desktop.

i agree; the only thing with KDF for everyday use is that one has to keep track of what's happening with KDE development, specially in regards to openSUSE. once in a while, when switching to a new major version, or when repos are shifted around for another reason, things go topsy-turvy. but then, that applies to Release:/ as well, or anything else that's under development.

Some of the problems with switching to KDF will be helped considerably with the proposal that major commits only be dropped to the repo 2 times per week instead of in a continuous stream. But.. yah, if you're using KDF on a daily basis, it is worth monitoring the Factory and KDE mailing lists (volume isn't overly high, so it's not much hassle). C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Hopefully, trying to get everyone on the same page. Sorry for any misinterpretations. http://en.opensuse.org/KDE_repositories On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 2:26 PM, Sven Burmeister wrote:

Am Donnerstag, 9. Februar 2012, 08:35:38 schrieb phanisvara das:

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now there's an additional option for using KDE 4.8, with KDE:/Distro:/Factory (http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/Distro:/Factory/ ).

even though that's supposedly less stable than the repos under KDE:/Release, i usually prefer them, since bug fixes appear earlier. of course, using KDF, one also has to switch any additional repos, like KDE:/Extra and KDE:/Unstable:/Playground, to the versions built against KDF.

KR48 links to KDF, so any bugs fixed in KDF will also be fixed in KR48. However, KDF's purpose is different from KR48 as it provides current KDE only as long as there is no packaging freeze because of an upcoming openSUSE release. In that case KDF stalls while KR48 keeps on publishing all upstream minor releases. KDF is for testing the next openSUSE release and not for using the current upstream KDE release.

Also, if using KDF it can happen that you suddenly get some beta release of KDE which will never happen in any KRxy repo since those only build KDE final releases.

Sven -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

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Am Donnerstag, 9. Februar 2012, 14:58:23 schrieb phanisvara das:

hm, for some reason i have different versions of packages in KDF than i had in KR48; and at present the KDF versions work better.

What do you mean by versions? Build numbers or actual versions?

so how comes there's a KDF version for openSUSE 11.4? that's certainly not the "next openSUSE release."

Obviously KDF is not openSUSE factory but only the KDE version for the next openSUSE release. And that KDE version can be tested on 11.4 and 12.1 as well.

and that's the reason why i prefer KDF, even for daily work using the present, not future oS release. i like to see beta versions, and in my experiene they're mostly stable enough for general use.

You should always mention the issues with KDF though when recommending it to others! Sven -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

To make it clearer please find the below. "Factory aka. KDF (KDE SC 4.8) These repositories feature the KDE packages under development for the upcoming openSUSE release and includes openSUSE specific patches. You must add the core packages repository to use Extra or Unstable:Playground." On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 3:36 PM, phanisvara das wrote:

On Thu, 09 Feb 2012 15:05:00 +0530, Sven Burmeister wrote:

...

Am Donnerstag, 9. Februar 2012, 14:58:23 schrieb phanisvara das:

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hm, for some reason i have different versions of packages in KDF than i had in KR48; and at present the KDF versions work better.

What do you mean by versions? Build numbers or actual versions?

not versions, build numbers.

...

...

so how comes there's a KDF version for openSUSE 11.4? that's certainly not the "next openSUSE release."

Obviously KDF is not openSUSE factory but only the KDE version for the next openSUSE release. And that KDE version can be tested on 11.4 and 12.1 as well.

...

and that's the reason why i prefer KDF, even for daily work using the present, not future oS release. i like to see beta versions, and in my experiene they're mostly stable enough for general use.

You should always mention the issues with KDF though when recommending it to others!

i thought i did that, by mentioning it (KDF) is supposedly less stable than KR48. but you're right, i'll try to make it more clear in the future.

-- phani.

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On Thu, 09 Feb 2012 16:25:03 +0530, Basil Chupin wrote:

On 09/02/12 21:17, Sujit Karatparambil wrote:

...

To make it clearer please find the below.

"Factory aka. KDF (KDE SC 4.8)

These repositories feature the KDE packages under development for the upcoming openSUSE release and includes openSUSE specific patches. You must add the core packages repository to use Extra or Unstable:Playground."

<Slowly shakes head from side to side and with tears starting to well-up in eyes>

Cannot anyone see the real gooblydook which this repo-naming nonsense is about?

"Factory aka. KDF (KDE SC 4.8)"

So, which IS it?

But this is not the only example. Look at all the other names: Unstable, Stable, Playground, Factory, Update, Downdate, Sidedate, SimplyAGleamInSomeone'sEye, and the list goes on....and on....

<Sigh>

but this isn't something you _have_ to deal with. to get KDE 4.8, just use KDE:/Release:/48, the naming of which is pretty obvious & self-explanatory. the other repos are for people who don't mind getting their heads around these different versions. or, if even that is too much, just stick to the OSS repo and wait for the next openSUSE release for KDE 4.8. more choices means you have to know more about the available options. don't want that, then stick to what comes included in the distro. -- phani. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 09/02/12 22:40, Sven Burmeister wrote:

Am Donnerstag, 9. Februar 2012, 21:55:03 schrieb Basil Chupin:

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But this is not the only example. Look at all the other names: Unstable, Stable, Playground, Factory, Update, Downdate, Sidedate, SimplyAGleamInSomeone'sEye, and the list goes on....and on.... Which is why KRxy was introduced. It's content can easily be derived from the name and will not change regarding major KDE versions. Hence I recommend to everybody using KRxy – unless one is familiar with what KDF stands for.

Although you might be right about the confusing names, what do you suggest as better naming scheme?

Sven

Why not use something which is understandable by the person in the street like, for example, Nightly (which Mozilla uses as you know), WIP (Work In Progress), Experimental, Pre-Release, Final and similar names. You could use such common names and then only have to alter the contents of a simple redirection file to take the user (ie, zypper, Yast) to the repository where 'you' can have all the weirdo names which your heart desires (such as Playground, Sandpit, Factory, Workshop, Laboratory, Unstable, Stable, whatever). BC -- Aspire to inspire before you expire. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 10/02/12 18:33, phanisvara das wrote:

On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 11:55:27 +0530, Basil Chupin wrote:

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On 09/02/12 22:40, Sven Burmeister wrote:

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Am Donnerstag, 9. Februar 2012, 21:55:03 schrieb Basil Chupin:

...

But this is not the only example. Look at all the other names: Unstable, Stable, Playground, Factory, Update, Downdate, Sidedate, SimplyAGleamInSomeone'sEye, and the list goes on....and on.... Which is why KRxy was introduced. It's content can easily be derived from the name and will not change regarding major KDE versions. Hence I recommend to everybody using KRxy – unless one is familiar with what KDF stands for.

Although you might be right about the confusing names, what do you suggest as better naming scheme?

Sven

Why not use something which is understandable by the person in the street like, for example, Nightly (which Mozilla uses as you know), WIP (Work In Progress), Experimental, Pre-Release, Final and similar names.

You could use such common names and then only have to alter the contents of a simple redirection file to take the user (ie, zypper, Yast) to the repository where 'you' can have all the weirdo names which your heart desires (such as Playground, Sandpit, Factory, Workshop, Laboratory, Unstable, Stable, whatever).

these names you mention may be more clear to you, but i don't think that "the man in the street" will be any more familiar with them than with what's already there. there isn't any one standard way to name such repositories; each project does that their own way. and these repos aren't meant for "the man on the street," but for people who are quite familiar with KDE. the one exception is probably the "Release:/" repo, and that name isn't very mystic at all.

All right - how about this. This issue has been raised before and there were many people who expressed that the plethora of repo names is getting beyond the pale. Therefore, why not hold a survey and a competition for people to come up with preferred names for repos? It is rather amazing that a small distro like Ubuntu can function perfectly with just a small handful of repo names which do not contain the likes of Playground, Factory, and so on. BC -- Aspire to inspire before you expire. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 18:02:40 +0530, you wrote in :

that's probably the reason for it getting away with less reasons.

oops, "less repos," i meant to write. -- phani. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 10/02/12 23:32, phanisvara das wrote:

On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 17:27:59 +0530, Basil Chupin wrote:

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All right - how about this. This issue has been raised before and there were many people who expressed that the plethora of repo names is getting beyond the pale. Therefore, why not hold a survey and a competition for people to come up with preferred names for repos?

i really don't care what the repos are called, as long as the names don't keep changing all the time.

Which is EXACTLY why I was suggesting a common, recognisable, meaningful names for the repos AND simply altering a control file which redirects - as what is now done when someone tries to download from the main server they are redirected to a less congested server - to the newly named repo which the devs use and love.

once i understand what is what, i don't have to think about it anymore. and i guess that's what most others think, too, and therefore people aren't eager to change names around because one or the other group of people don't like them: there's many who got used to them.

a link to an explanation has been posted to this thread repeatedly, and i suggest you read that and get used to it -- instead of trying to force everybody else to get used to some new naming scheme that you prefer. actually, i never looked at that explanation, since i managed to figure out what's what quite some time ago. if that page isn't clear enough for you, i'd be happy to explain things to you off-line.

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It is rather amazing that a small distro like Ubuntu can function perfectly with just a small handful of repo names which do not contain the likes of Playground, Factory, and so on.

ubuntu a small distro? well, i never knew. ubuntu also isn't known for the multitude of choices it offers it's users,

There is nothing which Ubunty/Kubuntu does not have which oS has - and the users can get those apps by using a heck of a lot of less repos that listed in oS.

so that's probably the reason for it getting away with less reasons. as i mentioned earlier: to have many choices means one has to learn many things.

But, why should anyone be asked, or even forced, "to learn many things"? Are there overwhelming and compelling reasons to do this and keep propagating the idea that Linux is for the geeks? All right, I already know what some of the die-hards here will say in response to this: if you donna lika what is dunna thena goa playa somewher elsa. BC -- Aspire to inspire before you expire. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 10/02/12 23:58, Sven Burmeister wrote:

Am Freitag, 10. Februar 2012, 23:51:27 schrieb Basil Chupin:

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There is nothing which Ubunty/Kubuntu does not have which oS has - and the users can get those apps by using a heck of a lot of less repos that listed in oS. Could explain their structure please? I'm not familiar with their repos' naming and content, i.e. where do they develop, where do they put the latest KDE, where do they test patches etc.

Sorry Sven I don't run Ubuntu anymore but I think that you will find what you want to know here: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories/Ubuntu BC -- Aspire to inspire before you expire. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 11/02/12 00:08, C wrote:

On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 13:51, Basil Chupin wrote:

...

...

i really don't care what the repos are called, as long as the names don't keep changing all the time.

Which is EXACTLY why I was suggesting a common, recognisable, meaningful names for the repos AND simply altering a control file which redirects - as what is now done when someone tries to download from the main server they are redirected to a less congested server - to the newly named repo which the devs use and love.

It's already simplified.... this was beaten to death a while back with participation by quite a few people, and the repo names were shuffled, changed and simplified to sort this all out. Go look at: http://en.opensuse.org/KDE_repositories This is where you will find.. with explanations... all the available repos that seem to have you all confused. It's explained fairly well there.

The recent discussion about repos was started because KDE4.8 wasn't landing where people were expecting - in the repos defined above. The root cause was because the build service was being triggered to rebuild before all components were built and published. This has been sorted out and everything is where it's documented to be... documented on the above Wiki page.

Basically.. changing it yet again will not make things better... it's pretty clear now.

What does "SC" and "SCM" stand for? BC -- Aspire to inspire before you expire. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 11/02/12 00:17, phanisvara das wrote:

On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 18:21:27 +0530, Basil Chupin wrote:

...

But, why should anyone be asked, or even forced, "to learn many things"? Are there overwhelming and compelling reasons to do this and keep propagating the idea that Linux is for the geeks?

so you are saying linux should not accomodate geeks?

Ce?! What sort of twisted logic is this?

heck, i'm getting fed up with this. there is ONE repo you have to add if you want to run latest stable KDE, and that's called Release:/<whatever>. that isn't too difficult, is it?

ignoring this thread from here. if you want me to explain things, please write to me off-list.

You took the words right out of my mouth... -- Aspire to inspire before you expire. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

* Dmitry A. Ashkadov [02-09-12 04:21]:

Will KDE 4.8 be available in Tumbleweed?

It has been requested. Depends of available time of Greg KH who has been driving tumbleweed and now has another job. Posts concerning tumbleweed usually appear in opensuse-factory. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org