[opensuse] Re: Who is using Gnome?

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[opensuse] Re: KDE4.x.x Activities

Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.

2 Feb 2009 2 Feb '09

22:31

On Monday 02 February 2009 15:25:35 you wrote:

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Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. a écrit :

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My plasmoids seem to move and resize properly, at least the ones I've tried. Are you having trouble with one in particular or just as a general rule? Could you be a bit more specific in how you are expecting vs. what you are experiencing?

on "folder view", I can set the plasmoid desktops (folder view? it's irritating to have the same name for two different things - and In use the french version, so I can only guess the english name) where I want, But I already have the destop folder as background :-??, but if I switch to "desktop view", all the plasmoids go to the left top corner and if I move them go back as soon as I clic the background

Ah, okay. I'm not sure if there is a purpose for the widgets not remembering their position, but it doesn't make much sense. I can reproduce here on openSUSE 11.1, so I think you should file a bug about it. I don't use the folder view activity type, so I'd never switched activity types and didn't experience this bug. Are you switching activity types often? If so, why? Normally, you would only change this when the activity is created or on your first login to KDE 4. Still, I think you should file a bug about it, there's no reason the widgets shouldn't stay were they were. If you'd like to see your Desktop icons all the time, you can use either the folder view activity (under appearance settings) or a simple folder view widget (under add widgets). You can use the widget in either the desktop or the folder view activity type. Part of me thinks this might have been because of previously running KDE 4.1 or 4.0. The desktop activity type doesn't normally show anything except the wallpaper and any widgets you've added, and was the only activity type available in early versions; openSUSE added some desktop icon widgets to it for me to partially emulate the Desktop folder[1], and I thought for a moment those were the contents of my Desktop folder. Now, there is the folder view activity type, which shows the contents of the Desktop folder by default (you can show another folder if you like) in addition to a wallpaper and whatever widgets you want to place on it.

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(just a comment: I make you to: of this mail because I don't think the list wil accept attachements)

That's fine.

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the first attachement shows the folder viewe and the second the result as soon as I clic on desktop view and "accept".

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Desktop Effects component, All Effects tab, what effects do you have enabled?

none

Well, I asked this as part of diagnosing the taskbar "blurriness" it really doesn't matter about the widgets moving. Did you get that blurriness fixed?

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I have kde3 *and* kde4 apps running together (but each with the proper bugs...)

Yes, it is possible to have a KDE that uses Qt3 and a separate KDE that uses Qt4. It's not possible to have a single KDE that uses a (non-trivial) combination of Qt3 and Qt4. -- Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. bss@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_)) ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' http://iguanasuicide.net/ \_/ [1] The icons shown wouldn't change based on the Desktop folder contents.

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Larry Stotler

2 Feb 2 Feb

22:37

On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 5:31 PM, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:

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If you'd like to see your Desktop icons all the time, you can use either the folder view activity (under appearance settings) or a simple folder view widget (under add widgets). You can use the widget in either the desktop or the folder view activity type. Part of me thinks this might have been because of previously running KDE 4.1 or 4.0. The desktop activity type doesn't normally show anything except the wallpaper and any widgets you've added, and was the only activity type available in early versions; openSUSE added some desktop icon widgets to it for me to partially emulate the Desktop folder[1], and I thought for a moment those were the contents of my Desktop folder. Now, there is the folder view activity type, which shows the contents of the Desktop folder by default (you can show another folder if you like) in addition to a wallpaper and whatever widgets you want to place on it.

In a way I can see the reasoning behind this, but there should be an easy way for me to use icons on my desktop like I have in every other window manager I have ever used. Removing something like that is not a smart thing to do. Open source is about choice. Therefore, we should have a choice to do it the old way or the new way. As of now, my choice is to use kDE3. I usually don't use wallpapers anyway. :) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.

23:02

On Monday 02 February 2009 16:37:26 Larry Stotler wrote:

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On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 5:31 PM, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:

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Now, there is the folder view activity type, which shows the contents of the Desktop folder by default (you can show another folder if you like) in addition to a wallpaper and whatever widgets you want to place on it.

In a way I can see the reasoning behind this, but there should be an easy way for me to use icons on my desktop like I have in every other window manager I have ever used.

That's what the folder view activity type is supposed to do. You'll have your Desktop icons (the contents of the Desktop folder) by default. You could show the contents of a different folder if you like. Modifications to the contents of the folder view activity (e.g. renaming a file) will be reflected in the contents of the Desktop folder and vice-versa. -- Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. bss@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_)) ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' http://iguanasuicide.net/ \_/

Larry Stotler

23:15

On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 6:02 PM, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:

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That's what the folder view activity type is supposed to do. You'll have your Desktop icons (the contents of the Desktop folder) by default. You could show the contents of a different folder if you like. Modifications to the contents of the folder view activity (e.g. renaming a file) will be reflected in the contents of the Desktop folder and vice-versa.

But how do I do that? Everything I have tried in KDE4 hasn't given me that. I even resized the folder to the size of the screen, and when I logged in it was gone. Nothing on the desktop now...... Maybe if they port KPersonalizer like I requested, they can add an option to make it work like KDE3. Then I would be happy..... :-) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Sven Burmeister

3 Feb 3 Feb

07:29

Am Dienstag, 3. Februar 2009 00:15:02 schrieb Larry Stotler:

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But how do I do that? Everything I have tried in KDE4 hasn't given me that. I even resized the folder to the size of the screen, and when I logged in it was gone. Nothing on the desktop now......

http://help.opensuse.org/kde4/ tells you how to get the icons on the desktop as it was in KDE3. I'm not sure about sorting, since I do not use it, but there might be a setting when you right click after changing your activity. Sven -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Bob S

04:37

On Monday 02 February 2009 06:02:32 pm Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:

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On Monday 02 February 2009 16:37:26 Larry Stotler wrote:

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On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 5:31 PM, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.

wrote:

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Now, there is the folder view activity type, which shows the contents of the Desktop folder by default (you can show another folder if you like) in addition to a wallpaper and whatever widgets you want to place on it.

In a way I can see the reasoning behind this, but there should be an easy way for me to use icons on my desktop like I have in every other window manager I have ever used.

That's what the folder view activity type is supposed to do. You'll have your Desktop icons (the contents of the Desktop folder) by default. You could show the contents of a different folder if you like. Modifications to the contents of the folder view activity (e.g. renaming a file) will be reflected in the contents of the Desktop folder and vice-versa.

Hello, This is really confusing to an old senile duffer like me. Pray tell....What is an "activity"? What does one do to create an "activity"? How does one change "activities"? Is it just another name for the virtual desktops that we had in 3.5? Where does one dind a how-to or whatever to learn this stuff? I have read just about every 4.2 tutelage that has been published. In 3.5 I had a diffferent wallpaper, color, or whatever to distinguish between the desktops so I could easily tell what desktop I was on.and run different apps in each allowing me to change to them quickly. That is what really stops me from using 4.2. Are you saying I could have a Konqueror activity, a Kmail activity, a Gimp activity, etc, etc.? Bob S -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.

05:47

On Monday 02 February 2009 22:37:21 Bob S wrote:

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This is really confusing to an old senile duffer like me. Pray tell....What is an "activity"?

I think that's the current nomenclature. There should be something on userbase about it.

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What does one do to create an "activity"?

Use the desktop cashew to zoom out, then click add activity. You'll automatically have one for each monitor.

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How does one change "activities"?

Zoom out, then zoom in to the activity you want. There's also a widget for switching activities.

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Is it just another name for the virtual desktops that we had in 3.5?

They are different, but the ideas overlap some, I guess. Basically, you have different sets or layouts of widgets on each activity and the Appearance Settings (or most of them) are also per-activity. Changing activities does not appear to affect windows. There are still virtual desktops like KDE 3.5. Switching between virtual desktops still has the same keyboard shortcuts. Changing virtual desktops gives you a new set of windows, but keeps you in the same activity (so none of your Appearance Settings, like wallpaper, change). I think KDE 4.2 might also have support for Gnome/Compiz/Afterstep-style virtual desktops (aka viewports) where the edge of one desktop is "connected" to the edge of another one, so a window can be half on one desktop and half on another, but I don't see a quick way to test that right now. One "Appearance Setting" appears to be completely global. I suppose that's because it affects the panels, which never change due to switching activity or switching virtual desktop. Both activities and desktops can be named.

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Where does one dind a how-to or whatever to learn this stuff? I have read just about every 4.2 tutelage that has been published.

I got my knowledge by basically following Planet KDE, but I hear there is good stuff at userbase.

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In 3.5 I had a diffferent wallpaper, color, or whatever to distinguish between the desktops so I could easily tell what desktop I was on.and run different apps in each allowing me to change to them quickly. That is what really stops me from using 4.2. Are you saying I could have a Konqueror activity, a Kmail activity, a Gimp activity, etc, etc.?

AFAICT, 4.2 doesn't work like that. When you switch between "sets of windows" you are changing virtual desktops; when you switch between "background objects" (widgets+wallpaper) you are changing activity. I suppose it is nice that they separated the ideas, but it would be nice to be able to unify them for certain use-cases (like KDE 3 converts). I had virtual desktops but used them rarely in KDE 3.5. I find the change odd, but not bothersome. You might love it or hate it depending on how you used your desktops in KDE 3.5. -- Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. bss@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_)) ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' http://iguanasuicide.net/ \_/

Larry Stotler

21:41

On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 12:47 AM, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:

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Use the desktop cashew to zoom out, then click add activity. You'll automatically have one for each monitor.

That begs - what is a "Cashew"......... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Dotan Cohen

21:42

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That begs - what is a "Cashew".........

The icon in the upper right hand corner of the desktop. -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת ا-ب-ت-ث-ج-ح-خ-د-ذ-ر-ز-س-ش-ص-ض-ط-ظ-ع-غ-ف-ق-ك-ل-م-ن-ه‍-و-ي А-Б-В-Г-Д-Е-Ё-Ж-З-И-Й-К-Л-М-Н-О-П-Р-С-Т-У-Ф-Х-Ц-Ч-Ш-Щ-Ъ-Ы-Ь-Э-Ю-Я а-б-в-г-д-е-ё-ж-з-и-й-к-л-м-н-о-п-р-с-т-у-ф-х-ц-ч-ш-щ-ъ-ы-ь-э-ю-я ä-ö-ü-ß-Ä-Ö-Ü N��r��y隊Z)z{.�ﮞ˛��m�)z{.��+�Z+i�b�*'jW(�f�vǦj)h��Ǿ��i��

Will Stephenson

4 Feb 4 Feb

21:20

On Tuesday 03 February 2009 05:37:21 Bob S wrote:

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This is really confusing to an old senile duffer like me. Pray tell....What is an "activity"? What does one do to create an "activity"? How does one change "activities"? Is it just another name for the virtual desktops that we had in 3.5? Where does one dind a how-to or whatever to learn this stuff? I have read just about every 4.2 tutelage that has been published.

While Boyd's earlier answer in this thread is technically correct, it's not the simplest one. For some reason the term 'Activity' is overloaded in current KDE 4. As well as the "Zooming UI" activities he describes, you can change the "Desktop Activity" that defines whether you have icons or a clean slate for whatever widgets you want on your desktop. To get to that, right click the desktop, Desktop Settings, look at Desktop Activity and change that to 'Folder View'. I think it should have been called 'Icons On Desktop' but that's just me. My 2 pence on the ZUI is that it's a fantastic research project but nowhere near ready for production use. That's why we (openSUSE) default you to the Plain Desktop in 11.1, which lacks the controls to mess around with the ZUI. ZUI is to desktop widgets what virtual desktops are to the set of visible windows. The zooming is a cute way to switch and keep that 50000' view of your virtual life beloved of GTD acolytes. For it to be usable it needs to have a coherent idea how to work with virtual desktops and viewports - being able to switch both independently is not it. It also needs integration with session management, keyboard shortcuts, and notification policies, just OTOMH. Anyone telling you it's a productivity booster right now is a Plasma developer, or else indistinguishable from one in a lineup. The current implementation adds complexity.

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In 3.5 I had a diffferent wallpaper, color, or whatever to distinguish between the desktops so I could easily tell what desktop I was on.and run different apps in each allowing me to change to them quickly. That is what really stops me from using 4.2.

You can do this but it missed string freeze so there is no UI for it. You can enable it but it involves hacking config files. Ask me if you really want to know how to do it.

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Are you saying I could have a Konqueror activity, a Kmail activity, a Gimp activity, etc, etc.?

You could do that, although my understanding is that you would define different Activities based on a real world activity. We do this with windows and virtual desktops already though. I guess a useful combination of the two would be to use this extra level of customisation to make a virtual desktop even more task specific. I got a new camera recently, and discovered that despite having more options than early versions of KDE (and about 10000 more than the 60s Spotmatic it replaces) the buttons and controls are placed so as to make it a great tool for its task. A computer desktop is a universal tool, so is there scope to make it fit given tasks better. When I'm coding something difficult, I have to cut out any extraneous distractions to get it done in finite time. I could imagine a Dev activity, having no taskbar, no system tray or notifications, just a fullscreen Vim or KDevelop and a clock. On an Inbox activity I would have a task list panel fixed on one side of the screen permanently showing my overall RememberTheMilk tasks, and my mail inbox filling the rest of the screen. No escape from handling all the incoming mail. Project-specific activities could show relevant files and folders, involved persons and just whatever apps are needed as icons on the desktop. In Chani Armitage's blog today she links screenshots of her "Main activity" and a "School activity" (http://chani.wordpress.com/2009/02/04/on-the-road- again/). Note that the Folder View widget on the School activity shows a different folder to the Main activity. NB Chani _is_ a Plasma dev. Hope that's enlightening Will -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

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Bob S
Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.
Dotan Cohen
Larry Stotler
Sven Burmeister
Will Stephenson