On 11/13/06, TheOldWiseKing wrote:

I have an opinion considering the deal between Microsoft and Novell. The deal doesn't mean that Novell made a deal with evil,

replace word microsoft with the word sco

because this deal has not been made long time ago, I think Microsoft did this step when she realized that Novel SUSE has became a strong competitor to her OS. This of course means that SUSE because really strong, and will be more strong in the future.

Maybe/maybe not some us remember the netware days, and the days when wordperfect was the 'thing'. I imagine in five years time novell will be wondering 'wow how did that happen' and Novell will be once again trying to redefine 'Novell'. You have your view I have mine. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 11/13/06, SheridanJ West wrote:

Maybe/maybe not some us remember the netware days, and the days when wordperfect was the 'thing'. I imagine in five years time novell will be wondering 'wow how did that happen' and Novell will be once again trying to redefine 'Novell'.

Yeah, but you can't completely blame Novell for WordPerfect. The problem with WordPerfect was that at first, it didn't really transition gracefully from DOS to Windows. And thats where MS Word gobbled up market share. Blame the Wordperfect developers more than Novell marketing for that one. Just my opinion. -- jjgitties, "*We* need to convince OpenSUSE to fork, or let 'em die. To bad, it is a wonderful Distro. But their parent company is NOT our friend."

JJ Gitties wrote:

However much I would have liked it if I could wokr on more SUSE and less Microsoft, from my experience, at least in my neck of the woods, most businesses are not migrating from windows and windows apps to SUSE or linux.

In my "neck of the woods", businesses are migrating not only windoze to linux, but also hpux to linux, solaris to linux, and specifically, redhat to suse. So, either you're doing a really poor job of promoting, or you're working in a hopeless environment, and it's time to move on. It sounds like you choose to stay put and be involved with microsoft, the very thing for which you condemn Novell. Joe --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Guys, just a small FYI: You don't need to send an email saying you are going to leave, or you are sad, or its raining today. I myself couldn't care less about it. Most people would think its not from their fscking business too. So from now on a simple "unsubscribe the list without a last message" will do the trick. Really. Thanks Marcio Ferreira On 11/13/06, John Andersen wrote:

On Monday 13 November 2006 08:41, JJ Gitties wrote:

...

However much I would have liked it if I could wokr on more SUSE and less Microsoft, from my experience, at least in my neck of the woods, most businesses are not migrating from windows and windows apps to SUSE or linux.

While this is true of the desktops, its not true for servers in my area.

Many local businesses (especially small business) are running Linux servers for their fleet of windows desktops.

Most of my clients are running specialized software that is not released for Linux, so they have to stick with windows desktops.

-- _____________________________________ John Andersen

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On Monday 13 November 2006 15:11, Druid wrote:

Guys, just a small FYI:

You don't need to send an email saying you are going to leave, or you are sad, or its raining today. I myself couldn't care less about it. Most people would think its not from their fscking business too. So from now on a simple "unsubscribe the list without a last message" will do the trick. Really.

Writing a goodbye note then coming back to argue about it is a classic move. Why do I feel six months from now we'll still be listening to why they left the list? Nick --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Basil Chupin wrote:

SheridanJ West wrote:

...

I'd like to thank all of you who have answered posts of mine to this mailing list (before it renamed). For the record i was waiting 10.2 and then bang Novell did a sco like licensing deal with the evil borg persons.

Linux does not mean 'i support microsoft with money'

So I'm moving to new distro. Whether suse/novell consider us a hobby user is not important but supporting microsoft is not the deal i signed on with Suse before Novell bought it.

While i may not be supporting the ms deal if say i bought disks for 10, it's the thought that my loyalty is misplaced now. I can do better and mod perl 2 excites me.

So thank you once again and goodbye.

I accept your sentiments, and wish you all the very best.

I suspect that you have expressed publicly the feelings quite a few people here have also possibly acquired over the past several days.

One thing a lot of people are forgetting, is there's still OpenSUSE, which contributes no money whatsoever to MS and isn't likely to receive any MS patents. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 11/13/06, Hans van der Merwe wrote:

But.... without starting one of those boring anti MS threads: What does this really mean for OpenSUSE users? Aren't this just the thing to prove that big corps cant kill Distros (as long as they are fully OSS)?

Ahhh . well thats the $64,000 question, isn't it? Will core developers leave OpenSUSE and move to work on another project? Will the net result be that the OpenSUSE project will degrade in quality because it lost major brain power behind it? If the OpenSUSE project/product/distro starts to suck, users will naturally flock to a "better" distro. Time will tell I guess. -- jjgitties, "*We* need to convince OpenSUSE to fork, or let 'em die. To bad, it is a wonderful Distro. But their parent company is NOT our friend."

I'll tell you what this patent protection did for me. I had a nearly fully functioning SUSE 10.0 system. I never could get the nVidia driver to install and work for 3D video, although it worked fine in SUSE 9.2 Professional. I made the mistake of upgrading to openSUSE 10.2 and now I'm regretting it big time. Mplayer was uninstalled by the upgrade, and none of my multimedia apps work cause of file format patents, from what I can tell by the big warning about patents on a Novell web page. I never saw or heard a peep out of Novell about patents before this Microsoft "deal". I think Novell got shafted by Microsoft. Time will tell, especially if MS ends up acquiring Red Hat (heaven forbid the financial experts are wrong). Why in the heck did openSUSE 10.2 have to remove a perfectly functioning Mplayer and leave me with a broken Kaffeine (which worked great before) and broken Noatun and broken XMMS, etc. I can't play any video formats now or burn any CDs. This is really pitiful. I'm really disgusted with what this upgrade has done. And why so many file updating programs? There's Yast, Yum, Smart, openSUSE Update, Synaptic, and a few more I can't remember at the moment. How in the world is a Windows user ever gonna convert and deal with so many choices? The strangest thing of all is how the documentation compares Smart to Yast and Yum and shows how superior it is to both. Then why include Yast and Yum anymore? Just provide Smart package manager and be done with it. Package management in Linux leaves a lot to be desired, compared to Windows Add/Remove Program and Setup programs. Is Linux desktop ready for prime time? I wish, but unfortunately, that's not the present situation. Disgruntled openSUSE user Alexey Eremenko wrote:

I see nothing wrong in doing any such contracts with Microsoft.

I believe Novell's Advocates, Management and Lawyers are fully aware of the consequences, and I believe that if Novell agreed to do that, they have a reason. I believe Novell management knows company politics better than us, Community Linuxoids. Maybe they have better vision of the future.

As a *Community Member* I can tell you, that I support any such Novell move as long as it doesn't hurt openSUSE project.

Even through I do not understand that political spin fully, because lack of public data. So if you believe in Novell management, please stop this useless discussion. I am sure this move is benefical to Novell.

CALL TO ALL: -I call to all SUSE community members stay with Novell & backup their moves.

-Alexey Eremenko. 13.11.2006. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

.

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On Saturday 23 December 2006 19:14, John wrote:

I had a nearly fully functioning SUSE 10.0 system. I never could get the nVidia driver to install and work for 3D video, although it worked fine in SUSE 9.2 Professional. Do you have 9.2 installation media? In 2 hours or lesser you can have 9.2 again.

...I never saw or heard a peep out of Novell about patents before ... That doesn't mean they didn't existed.

Why in the heck did openSUSE 10.2 have to remove a perfectly functioning Mplayer ... Installing it again is faster that to write one big email.

I'm really disgusted with what this upgrade has done. And why so many file updating programs? To puzzle the observers.

How in the world is a Windows user ever gonna convert and deal with so many choices? Then they have to do nothing and computer will work as before ;-)

The strangest thing of all is how the documentation compares Smart to Yast and Yum and shows how superior it is to both. Documentation? Where is own experience?

Then why include Yast and Yum anymore? It helps to maintain gray cells in good condition.

Package management in Linux leaves a lot to be desired, compared to Windows Add/Remove Program and Setup programs. Who has desire for the license fees?

Is Linux desktop ready for prime time? It already has a prime time, but not as a fake jukebox.

-- Regards. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Saturday 23 December 2006 21:05, Michael S. Dunsavage wrote:

On Sat, 2006-12-23 at 20:39 -0600, Rajko M. wrote:

...

...

Package management in Linux leaves a lot to be desired, compared to Windows Add/Remove Program and Setup programs.

Who has desire for the license fees?

Yast did a nice job for me when I wanted fonts and other certain programs removed.

Mike, leaving financial point and your sting for a moment, let me explain my experience. The packaging system like rpm or deb are in function and intentions similar to windows Add/Remove Program, but due to difference in operating system design and distribution, software vendor attempt to change libraries used by all programs will not pass unnoticed. That is big difference to windows and it is nothing to desire. Apparent simplicity for user of installation is not the only criteria that is used to evaluate software management. What happens during and after installation, as well removal is also important. Windows Add/Remove Program never warned me that one program is installing system wide library that should not be touched by anyone except operating system vendor, as other software vendors use published specifications to design their products. How many times programs left junk hanging around using system resources, because of sloppy defined unistall procedure. -- Regards, Rajko. http://en.opensuse.org/MiniSUSE http://en.opensuse.org/Portal -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 2006-12-23 19:14, John wrote:

I'll tell you what this patent protection did for me.

First off, you should be aware that a great deal of protected stuff has not been in SuSELinux, for quite some time. Your Mplayer was uninstalled because of legal reasons, and Novell/SuSE cannot do much about that, if they want to protect their asses and yours from some rather expensive lawsuits. The codec patents involved in Mplayer for the most part do not belong to Microsoft. The various patented formats, such as mp3, are owned by someone else. Therefore, nothing in the Novell/MS agreement can allow those codecs to be put into the distribution.

I made the mistake of upgrading to openSUSE 10.2 and now I'm regretting it big time. Mplayer was uninstalled by the upgrade, and none of my

So put in a link to a Packman mirror, and put it back.

Is Linux desktop ready for prime time? I wish, but unfortunately, that's not the present situation.

Well, you go talk to the boys that own the mp3 patents and tell them they should just give Novell the rights to distribute the codecs, without fee. I am sure they will listen. -- The best way to accelerate a computer running Windows is at 9.81 m/s² -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 2006-12-23 22:47, John Andersen wrote:

On Saturday 23 December 2006 18:26, Darryl Gregorash wrote:

...

Your Mplayer was uninstalled because of legal reasons, and Novell/SuSE cannot do much about that, if they want to protect their asses and yours from some rather expensive lawsuits.

Actually, that is not exactly true.

Novell does not un-install software to protect 3rd party patents.

His Mplayer was un-installed because its dependencies could not be met. Its that simple. Leaving it there would result in an Mplayer that was horribly broken.

Quite true. I was very hasty in sending out my note, because I am growing very weary of seeing this same junk over and over again. As usually happens when one is overly hasty, the result was very misleading. However, I disagree that it's -quite- that simple. I didn't check the repository previously, but it seems that mplayer is not even included in the 10.2 distribution. Novell certainly is not in any legal position to distribute a great deal of the necessary support that mplayer needs, which is probably behind a decision not to include it at all. Mplayer is a very popular product, and I doubt/hope it would not have been excluded from SuSE for any other reason. The end result is, of course, still the same: An existing package cannot be upgraded, resulting in dependency conflicts, hence no alternative exists but to remove it.

-- The best way to accelerate a computer running Windows is at 9.81 m/s² -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

jfweber@gilweber.com wrote:

...

And to sum up once again ( I guess repetitition does nothing for some people) DO NOT UPGRADE that way.. create a separate /home area which you almost never will have to touch again. And then install every new version you get onto a clean drive. It weeds out the cr@p you install just fooling around.

I can vouch for this advice. I did this a couple of years ago, and every update since 9.2 has left my home directory intact and fully usable. Just two problems: first, I took others' advice again to switch from Reiser to ext3fs, but my home directory is too big to get onto cd's or dvd's, so I now have a system based on ext3fs except for the /home directory, which is still Reiser. I'm digging through the home directories so I can divide it onto several dvds, but it's going to take a while. Second, I keep finding stuff I really don't want to dump, even though I haven't looked at it in years. And may never look at again. So, converting my home partition over to ext3fs may take a long time, if I ever done. I just hope the deep bugs on this list keep talking about in Reiser don't come to my system. -- John Perry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Basil Chupin wrote:

John E. Perry wrote:

...

Just two problems: first, I took others' advice again to switch from Reiser to ext3fs, but my home directory is too big to get onto cd's or dvd's, so I now have a system based on ext3fs except for the /home directory, which is still Reiser. I'm digging through the home directories so I can divide it onto several dvds, but it's going to take a while.

How big *is* your /home directory?! :-)

32+G. I have thousands of technical documents from 35+ years of engineering work, hundreds more from hobbies I've had over the years, and dozens more from various projects I've done on contract since I got laid off from my last few jobs.

And how big is your / partition where Suse is intstalled? Surely it must be big enough and with enough space left for you to copy your current /home directory to / then format your current /home partition in ext3 and then it copy back from / . No, this can't be done?

/ is 20G, of which suse 10.2 takes up 5.7G, and I haven't finished installing all the applications I need and want. -- John Perry Embedded Electronics -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

Wow. And why do you not have all that on backup?

Much of it on the original cd's and floppies I used to transfer it from my NASA and CEBAF computers over the years. All the truly critical stuff is backed up on new cd's. Some I never bothered to back up because I had downloaded it from the Internet. Some of it I can still find on the Net, some not. And so on. -- John Perry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Sunday 24 December 2006 21:14, John E. Perry wrote:

Just two problems:  first, I took others' advice again to switch from Reiser to ext3fs,

Precisely who gave you that bum advice? There is no reason what so ever to switch filesystems on an existing partition which you had no desire to reformat anyway. -- _____________________________________ John Andersen

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Monday 2006-12-25 at 14:44 -0500, John E. Perry wrote:

So, two weeks ago, I got what I see as good reason -- my / partition was suddenly unavailable after a zen update. fsck.reiser brought everything back, but that's what finally made install 10.2 (which everyone is saying is much better than 10.1 (my experince agrees).

And... didn't you ever have to fsck any ext3 partition to recover from some dissaster, sucessfully I hope? That's a normal thing for any filesystem. All can get corrupted - otherwise, the fsck utility would not even exist. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFFkDMJtTMYHG2NR9URAprYAJwIvyAVzWmt9MsGUjRx4QSmSB05sQCfUHo6 G/urdPiOdmezh/WH8zCFQKY= =JPIo -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Monday 25 December 2006 11:48, John E. Perry wrote:

...

That's a normal thing for any filesystem. All can get corrupted - otherwise, the fsck utility would not even exist.

Sure.  But it's rare enough with ext2 that I never had a problem that I couldn't identify as a hardware disk crash

Then, I suggest you have had the benefit of a charmed exitance. ;-) My experience with ext2 has been maddening to say the least. The mere fact that the developers felt the need to bolt journaling on top of ext2 should tell you something about its reliability. Ext3 is nothing but ext2 (still as risky as ever) with a journal tagging along to clean up the ext2 mess. My ext2 usage suggests ANY abnormal shutdown was likely to corrupt it, and EVERY power failure was certain to. It remains to be seen if ext3 can overcome this problem. OTOH, i've never lost anything with reiser, crash, power fail, or kernel panic. Over the years I've had to reiserfsck maybe 3 times on 6 or 8 machines. (this dates back to 8.x when I switched to reiser.). The stated reasons for suse switching away from reiser had nothing to do with reliability. It was scalability and features for more complex indexing and a small developer community.

and several people on this list complained of mysterious reiser3 partition corruption.

But, but, but... You can't come to a mutual help list and then turn around a say See, look at all the problems!!! If you follow that theory you would never run suse at all. Or Ubuntu. Or windows. You'd get out of computers completely. When was the last time you saw a post about stuck abacus beads? People without problems don't post. -- _____________________________________ John Andersen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Monday 2006-12-25 at 01:14 -0500, John E. Perry wrote:

Just two problems: first, I took others' advice again to switch from Reiser to ext3fs,

You choose that advice instead of the advice to the contrary.

I just hope the deep bugs on this list keep talking about in Reiser don't come to my system.

What bugs? - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFFj6obtTMYHG2NR9URAs9qAJ0Vff53TUTPHk+TFoWxrKI7OYVy8wCfV+8c N9zG+OiSzeURtREVRgKl7fM= =Loc1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Mon, 2006-12-25 at 11:51 +0100, Anders Norrbring wrote:

Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

The Monday 2006-12-25 at 01:14 -0500, John E. Perry wrote:

...

Just two problems: first, I took others' advice again to switch from Reiser to ext3fs,

You choose that advice instead of the advice to the contrary.

...

I just hope the deep bugs on this list keep talking about in Reiser don't come to my system.

What bugs?

My highly unqualified guess would be the bugs in reiser4, which isn't a part of any respected distribution anyway.. :)

I'm trying to remember where I saw Reiser4 as a disk option, and lately I've only been tinkering with SuSE and Ubuntu Dapper Drake (the install DVD that I have, has broken reiser3 utilities). -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Monday 25 December 2006 13:50, John E. Perry wrote:

Anders Norrbring wrote:

...

Carlos E. R. wrote: ...

...

What bugs?

My highly unqualified guess would be the bugs in reiser4, which isn't a part of any respected distribution anyway.. :)

My (at least equally unqualified guess) is the bugs in reiser3 that cause occasional partition corruption.

Hasn't happened yet to me using 7.3 (I *think* I used reiserfs on that one), 8.2, 9.0, and now 9.3. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R. wrote:

The Monday 2006-12-25 at 01:14 -0500, John E. Perry wrote:

...

Just two problems: first, I took others' advice again to switch from Reiser to ext3fs,

You choose that advice instead of the advice to the contrary.

Yes. Practically no one gave an unqualified "yes" to reiser3. The best I saw was "don't change without reason".

...

I just hope the deep bugs on this list keep talking about in Reiser don't come to my system.

What bugs?

Whatever it is that causes partitions to collapse occasionally. You wouldn't call that a bug? -- John Perry Embedded Electronics (757)813-6109 j.e.perry@cox.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R. wrote:

The Monday 2006-12-25 at 14:48 -0500, John E. Perry wrote:

...

...

You choose that advice instead of the advice to the contrary. Yes. Practically no one gave an unqualified "yes" to reiser3. The best I saw was "don't change without reason".

I don't see any reason to change. And I would say the same to anybody using similar reasons to change from ext3 to reiser or xfs or any combination whatsoever.

...

...

...

I just hope the deep bugs on this list keep talking about in Reiser don't come to my system. What bugs? Whatever it is that causes partitions to collapse occasionally. You wouldn't call that a bug?

No.

If it were a bug, you would be reporting it to bugzilla to have it solved.

If I had something worthwhile to say, probably. Who to I say "my root partition suddenly became unavailable, and I had to restore it with fsck.reiser from my rescue cd, and I have no idea what the problem was"?

Collapse, like what? In normal use?

As I said before, after one of the zen updates, I rebooted, and the root partition was corrupt. fsck.reiser from the install cd printed hundreds of lines during the two stages of repair, which I did not try to write down, and which, as far as I know, are not preserved anywhere on the system. -- John Perry Embedded Electronics (757)813-6109 j.e.perry@cox.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

John E. Perry wrote:

Just two problems: first, I took others' advice again to switch from Reiser to ext3fs, but my home directory is too big to get onto cd's or dvd's, so I now have a system based on ext3fs except for the /home directory, which is still Reiser. I'm digging through the home directories so I can divide it onto several dvds, but it's going to take a while.

Since you're blowing away most of the system anyway, why not just create a new ext3 partition and copy /home to it. Then, when you install the new system, just mount that ext3 partition as /home. You can use a rescue CD to create the new partition and copy /home. Incidentally, you may want to invest in an external USB hard drive. They're cheap these days and can hold a lot of data. I've got one here that's 160 GB. It currently contains a couple of generations of backup from two computers. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Monday 2006-12-25 at 15:08 -0500, John E. Perry wrote:

...

Incidentally, you may want to invest in an external USB hard drive. They're cheap these days and can hold a lot of data. I've got one here that's 160 GB. It currently contains a couple of generations of backup from two computers.

Hmm. I blew off the tiny, hyperexpensive usb drives a couple of years ago, but haven't looked at them recently. That could work well. I had been reading up on nfs, thinking about connecting it to my laptop and using it to back up my data. I also made a quick try to get ftp working, but didn't succeed immediately, and never got back to it.

You need another computer to use ftp or nfs. An usb disk is just another "internal" disk on the system, but physically external. It is transparent and slower, and very handy. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFFkDTbtTMYHG2NR9URAl9iAJwPOH98Q/z0rJI5tYBHnUZ7qRqXdwCdEYYS O0vIwpDPQzws6F9mPSeI3/o= =z0wj -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Randall R Schulz wrote:

...

There are also now storage appliances that implement NFS and / or SMB/CIFS (accessed via Samba from Unix / Linux systems or via the built-in file sharing from Windows systems). These are basically stand-alone boxes with disks (often RAID arrays), a simple server computer and an Ethernet connection.

Be nice if I could afford it. A semi-employed electronics engineer 60+ years old has to watch his spending pretty carefully between contracts.

...Plus, I'd like to consolidate what is at the moment a very fragmented on-line library of technical papers, podcasts, ripped CDs, software downloads and other miscellany.

Exactly what I'm facing. -- John Perry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Mon December 25 2006 4:15 pm, John E. Perry scratched these words onto a coconut shell, hoping for an answer:

Randall R Schulz wrote:

...

...

There are also now storage appliances that implement NFS and / or SMB/CIFS (accessed via Samba from Unix / Linux systems or via the built-in file sharing from Windows systems). These are basically stand-alone boxes with disks (often RAID arrays), a simple server computer and an Ethernet connection.

Be nice if I could afford it. A semi-employed electronics engineer 60+ years old has to watch his spending pretty carefully between contracts. I saw one of those w/ a terabyte of space on it for under $500US online . That is almost too good to pass up.. Tiger Direct I think, but don't quote me.

<Snip> -- j -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Monday 25 December 2006 13:07, John E. Perry wrote:

Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

... You need another computer to use ftp or nfs. An usb disk is just another "internal" disk on the system, but physically external. It is transparent and slower, and very handy.

I'm aware of all this. The computer that has all the stuff is my desktop; the computer I want to use for backup is the new laptop (already running 10.2 with ext3 filesystems).

Do I understand that you want to back up _to_ a laptop? That seems rather odd. First of all, the disk in a laptop is far more likely to fail than one in a desktop system. Secondly, their capacity is still distinctly more limited than those of desktop or rack-mount systems, so using it as a backup might prove excessively limiting in terms of what or how much you can store. And you say this is a new laptop, so don't you want to actually use that new laptop _as_ a laptop? You know, portable computing and all that great stuff?

--

John Perry

Randall Schulz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Randall R Schulz wrote:

...

Do I understand that you want to back up _to_ a laptop? That seems rather odd. First of all, the disk in a laptop is far more likely to fail than one in a desktop system. ...

Again, I'm aware of all your objections. The laptop is a _new_ laptop, with a 120G disk; /home is 80G; the backup is temporary until I can get the desktop reformatted. Also, the laptop has a dvd writer, which the (5-year-old) desktop doesn't. -- John Perry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

John wrote:

I'll tell you what this patent protection did for me.

Just as an opener: I think you jumped in head-first here because of some misconceived angst caused by the words Patent" and "Microsoft".

I had a nearly fully functioning SUSE 10.0 system. I never could get the nVidia driver to install and work for 3D video, although it worked fine in SUSE 9.2 Professional.

I, like many, many others, have had no problems with using the nVidia drivers in SuSe. There was a slight huccup some time ago with one version of the drivers provided by nVidia but that was all. If you had problems then you should have come back to this forum and/or nVidia and your problems would have been resolved. Why didn't you ask for help instead of stewing for all this time over this non-existent problem?

I made the mistake of upgrading to openSUSE 10.2 and now I'm regretting it big time. Mplayer was uninstalled by the upgrade, and none of my multimedia apps work cause of file format patents, from what I can tell by the big warning about patents on a Novell web page. I never saw or heard a peep out of Novell about patents before this Microsoft "deal". I think Novell got shafted by Microsoft. Time will tell, especially if MS ends up acquiring Red Hat (heaven forbid the financial experts are wrong).

Why in the heck did openSUSE 10.2 have to remove a perfectly functioning Mplayer and leave me with a broken Kaffeine (which worked great before) and broken Noatun and broken XMMS, etc. I can't play any video formats now or burn any CDs. This is really pitiful.

You say above that you "had a nearly fully functioning SUSE 10.0 system" and that you "never saw of heard a peep out of Novell about patents before this Microsoft "deal"". Well, and I can be corrected about this, but you did hear about patents - and you heard it when you were insalling SuSE10.0 because it was then that the ability to play DVDs was removed from SuSE because of this 'patent' problem. Don't you remember having to go hunting for the files needed to be able to view DVDs because they were no longer included on the CDs or DVD from SuSE? Now, as a matter of fact, (BTW I am running 10.2 which I finally installed on my "main" system several days ago), I never used to use kaffeine as my player of anything - I thought it was a "toy" - and used xine for my DVD viewing and, I think, I used amarok when I did (once in a blue moon) want to play an audio CD, but a yesterday I discovered the full power of kaffeine when I found that it would make my new dvb card work "out of the box". I also discovered that I could watch DVDs using it (I watched, again, the original *The Planet of the Apes* with Heston last night) and this morning played one of my favourite audio CDs, Credence Clearwater Revival. So why are you saying that kaffeine is broken? It's not. Oh, Mplayer I also have installed but now that I discovered the beauty of kaffeine I don't think I'll be using Mplayer. Mplayer, BTW, is not included on the downloadable CDs or the DVD for 10.2 because of disc space as I understand it but should be on the boxed 10.2 (people can correct me about this), Re burning CD or DVDs. I have burnt several DVDs and 10 CDs using k3b in 10.2. Why can't you? I don't know.

I'm really disgusted with what this upgrade has done. And why so many file updating programs? There's Yast, Yum, Smart, openSUSE Update, Synaptic, and a few more I can't remember at the moment. How in the world is a Windows user ever gonna convert and deal with so many choices? The strangest thing of all is how the documentation compares Smart to Yast and Yum and shows how superior it is to both. Then why include Yast and Yum anymore? Just provide Smart package manager and be done with it. Package management in Linux leaves a lot to be desired, compared to Windows Add/Remove Program and Setup programs.

Ah, now you have come up with something which I think is a damn disgrace for Novell and SuSE- this stupidity about the way the system is being updated/upgraded. I gave away trying to fight the bungling and only use smart which works with minor, occasional hiccups which are resolved quite often in a matter of minutes by the competent team at labix.

Is Linux desktop ready for prime time? I wish, but unfortunately, that's not the present situation.

Almost there.

Disgruntled openSUSE user

Don't let the self-inflicted angst cloud your judgement :-) . Cheers. -- In a period of great joy and pleasure you are comforted by the thought that tragedy is just around the corner. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Tom Patton wrote:

On Sun, 2006-12-24 at 14:36 +1100, Basil Chupin wrote:

...

John wrote: Mplayer, BTW, is not included on the downloadable CDs or the DVD for 10.2 because of disc space as I understand it but should be on the boxed 10.2 (people can correct me about this),

Well, gee, Basil...if they ever deliver 10.2 here in the states, I'd be happy to advise on that!

But... http://shop.novell.com/servlet/ControllerServlet?Action=DisplayPage&Env=BASE&Locale=en_US&SiteID=novell&id=ProductDetailsPage&productID=61098000 You mean that you still cannot get it even after ordering it from Novell?

As for relying on Packman et al to complete the picture on multimedia apps...that's been going on for as long as I can remember. No big deal, just a hastle.

Yes, been like this for a while now. A pain but thankfully can be overcome.

Merry Christmas to all!

And a Happy, Healthy and Prosperous New Year! Cheers. -- In a period of great joy and pleasure you are comforted by the thought that tragedy is just around the corner. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Tom Patton wrote:

On Sun, 2006-12-24 at 16:18 +1100, Basil Chupin wrote:

...

Tom Patton wrote:

...

On Sun, 2006-12-24 at 14:36 +1100, Basil Chupin wrote: But...

http://shop.novell.com/servlet/ControllerServlet?Action=DisplayPage&Env=BASE&Locale=en_US&SiteID=novell&id=ProductDetailsPage&productID=61098000

You mean that you still cannot get it even after ordering it from Novell?

I started the thread "pre-order shipping yet?" ... as far as I and a couple others have determined, no one has received it yet in the states. Digital River emailed me that it is on backorder. I ordered on the 12th of Dec from the Novell site! DR gave me no estimate on arrival...:(

I guess Santa's getting older and couldn't handle the load...

But this is disgraceful! I would be suggesting getting in touch with some of the hacks on news sites like TheInquirer et alia and complaining about this non-availability of boxed 10.2. That should stir Novell into action. No wonder Novell became a non-entity some 12 years ago. Sheesh! Sorry, but this really grates me :-( . Cheers. -- In a period of great joy and pleasure you are comforted by the thought that tragedy is just around the corner. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Sunday 24 December 2006 03:04, Basil Chupin wrote:

...

I guess Santa's getting older and couldn't handle the load...

But this is disgraceful!

I would be suggesting getting in touch with some of the hacks on news sites like TheInquirer et alia and complaining about this non-availability of boxed 10.2. That should stir Novell into action. No wonder Novell became a non-entity some 12 years ago.

Sheesh! Sorry, but this really grates me :-( .

Yup... I ordered on the 12th too and have received nothing from DigitalRiver, email or otherwise other than an order acknowledge. In the time since the order, I have switched to Kubuntu and I doubt I will even use the package if/when it arrives. But long live Novell.... <not> -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Sunday 24 December 2006 11:52, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

* Bruce Marshall [12-24-06 11:07]:

...

Yup... I ordered on the 12th too and have received nothing from DigitalRiver, email or otherwise other than an order acknowledge.

In the time since the order, I have switched to Kubuntu and I doubt I will even use the package if/when it arrives. But long live Novell.... <not>

If you feel that way, and apparently you do considering you have switched distros, LEAVE. Do not hang around here just to bash openSUSE, that is the definition of a troll and the function that you are filling!

As always.. You're a bundle of joy. Note well: 1) I will stay as longer as I like, not withstanding your well wishes. 2) I am still a supporter of Novell (as a purchaser) until such time as 10.3 comes out. (if it ever does) 3) This forum really *should* be open to anyone running linux or thinking of running linux as long as they don't troll or cause problems. I don't think my statement above comes even close to either condition. 4) I have still been contributing to this list in a constructive way answering problems people have with SuSE. (unlike your response above) 5) I am still running 10.1 on three machines in this household, so I have a perfect right to be here. 6) You're a snot!! Neener, Neener, Neener And go ahead and PLONK me please.... I don't wish to read any responses to my posts from you. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Sun December 24 2006 11:52 am, Patrick Shanahan scratched these words onto a coconut shell, hoping for an answer:

* Bruce Marshall [12-24-06 11:07]:

...

Yup... I ordered on the 12th too and have received nothing from DigitalRiver, email or otherwise other than an order acknowledge.

In the time since the order, I have switched to Kubuntu and I doubt I will even use the package if/when it arrives. But long live Novell.... <not>

If you feel that way, and apparently you do considering you have switched distros, LEAVE. Do not hang around here just to bash openSUSE, that is the definition of a troll and the function that you are filling! Dammit, I guess Chris' "Troll Remover" (TM) left w/ him ... Wonder if we can re-engineer it for Henne . It might make a nice 12th night gift GD&R ( very very fast )

-- j Ooh, Santa's here.. time to play! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R. wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1

The Saturday 2006-12-23 at 19:14 -0600, John wrote:

...

I'll tell you what this patent protection did for me.

[pruned]

And the solutions are what have always been. But as you are leaving, goodbye.

Like the other poster you have come to the wrong conclusion about John's intentions :-) . John was simply responding to an 'oldish' post which had "Goodbye to suse" as the subject. It isn't John's Subject - it's someone else's to which he (finally) decided to respond to. John has been stewing for a long time over his problems with getting the nVidia driver(s) to work and decided at last to "let loose" - but he is not leaving :-) . Cheers. -- In a period of great joy and pleasure you are comforted by the thought that tragedy is just around the corner. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Ah, I see...

He was answering to an email dated 13 Nov! That's over a month ago, I had that mail on another folder, so his mail appeared as the first one of new, broken thread. He missled me.

I guess it was to difficult to change the topic and make a new post -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Saturday 23 December 2006 17:14, John wrote:

I'll tell you what this patent protection did for me.

I had a nearly fully functioning SUSE 10.0 system. I never could get the nVidia driver to install and work for 3D video, although it worked fine in SUSE 9.2 Professional.

Sounds like a personal problem to me....PEBCEK anyone?

I made the mistake of upgrading to openSUSE 10.2 and now I'm regretting it big time. Mplayer was uninstalled by the upgrade, and none of my multimedia apps work cause of file format patents, from what I can tell by the big warning about patents on a Novell web page. I never saw or heard a peep out of Novell about patents before this Microsoft "deal". I think Novell got shafted by Microsoft. Time will tell, especially if MS ends up acquiring Red Hat (heaven forbid the financial experts are wrong).

Sigh, another crossover loser from COLA... ...though I agree that Novell should show some cajones and provide multimedia in their system like Xandros does, it really isn't a big deal. I mean, take a stock verson of WinXP or Vista and see what happens when you stick a commercial Region 1 DVD in. <insert Jepardy music here> As anyone can tell you, getting popular codes to play multimedia takes about five minutes of your time. http://www.perfectreign.com/stuff/suse/desk_dvd_lg.jpg http://www.perfectreign.com/stuff/suse/desktop+mp3.jpg http://www.perfectreign.com/stuff/suse/2006/happyfeet1.jpg This has been true of any version since I started using SUSE during 9.1 days.

Why in the heck did openSUSE 10.2 have to remove a perfectly functioning Mplayer and leave me with a broken Kaffeine (which worked great before) and broken Noatun and broken XMMS, etc. I can't play any video formats now or burn any CDs. This is really pitiful.

Again, PEBCEK - you screwed up. Too bad... ..so sorry.

I'm really disgusted with what this upgrade has done. And why so many file updating programs? There's Yast, Yum, Smart, openSUSE Update, Synaptic, and a few more I can't remember at the moment. How in the world is a Windows user ever gonna convert and deal with so many choices?

I did. My mom did. My wife is in the process. Not too hard.

The strangest thing of all is how the documentation compares Smart to Yast and Yum and shows how superior it is to both. Then why include Yast and Yum anymore? Just provide Smart package manager and be done with it. Package management in Linux leaves a lot to be desired, compared to Windows Add/Remove Program and Setup programs.

Linux = choices. Hey, some people even like the command line - or worse - Gnome. What can I say?

Is Windows ready for prime time? I wish, but unfortunately, that's not the present situation.

fixx0red your post. -- kai www.perfectreign.com || www.4thedadz.com a turn signal is a statement, not a request -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

* Pascal Bleser [11-13-06 18:49]:

Well Bruce has been a big FUD-throwing troll about this since a few days.

I wonder what qualifies him in any way to comment about it... Since when does being a Debian fanboy count ?

Perhaps he has moved to contract law? -- Patrick Shanahan Registered Linux User #207535 http://wahoo.no-ip.org @ http://counter.li.org HOG # US1244711 Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Mon, 13 Nov 2006 10:01:36 -0500, "JJ Gitties" wrote: [snip]

the enterprise versions at all. What I have started to do is, if someone asks me for my thoughts on SUSE, I just lie and say "I have personally found that it doesn't work as well as <insert other distro here>. But your mileage may vary." You can get away with stuff like that. All network environments are different and they all have their peciuliarities.

You lie? Wow this tells me loads about you right there. How so unprofessional. I mean its one thing to not like some software, or a company, but to actually lie about its performance or its merits. Wow. Well at least Novell, though legally obligated to, is releasing details of their contract. I am guessing that anyone you deal with has no idea that you will just lie about things. Dang. I am amazed. Michael --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 11/13/06, Stan Glasoe wrote:

For JJ, dishonesty is the best policy. Sounds very Microsoft-ish to "market" something in that manner...

It's my form of protest. If you read Samba groups open letter to Novell (it's been circulating in the net media today), i think they perfectly express much better than me why I am so against what Novell did. In my books, it's perfectly find to be a member of the community and be pissed. -- jjgitties, "*We* need to convince OpenSUSE to fork, or let 'em die. To bad, it is a wonderful Distro. But their parent company is NOT our friend."

On Mon, 2006-11-13 at 16:34 -0500, JJ Gitties wrote:

On 11/13/06, Stan Glasoe wrote: For JJ, dishonesty is the best policy. Sounds very Microsoft-ish to "market" something in that manner...

It's my form of protest. If you read Samba groups open letter to Novell (it's been circulating in the net media today), i think they perfectly express much better than me why I am so against what Novell did. In my books, it's perfectly find to be a member of the community and be pissed.

-- jjgitties,

"*We* need to convince OpenSUSE to fork, or let 'em die. To bad, it is a wonderful Distro. But their parent company is NOT our friend."

I agree, i like to see the feed back in the group to see how the community is taking it. BTW, HP/Compaq is a large company that offers Linux indemnification, just like Novell does, but Novell is smaller and it used its patent portfolio as barter (against MS) to get such indemnifaction. HP also LOVES MS, sells millions of their OS's (and other product), and when ever you by HP/Compaq, you generate HP profit, that goes to selling more MS OS's, and HP is good to the Linux community too, just like Novell, HP sponsors Linux directly, see the exposure they get on www.linux.org for donating the servers for Linux. Better not buy any HP product, printer, servers, .... they are evil MS sympathizers!!! Lets see, so is Dell, IBM, AMD, TYAN, INTEL, ASUS, so is (...... insert name of just about every company here. ....) .... so i ask my self, why is Novell being singled out, to top it all off, they have helped out Linux/FLOSS more then most, to bad people don't understand how a patent portfolio barter is, and how it has nothing to do with the GPL , its just bartered indemnification. I guess the most significant thing about this MS/Novell announcement is it shows that their are many Linux users (community) that when it comes to the Fud'ster meter, make Ballmer look like a mute, even on a good day, which is a scary thought, and really makes the community look bad. -tl --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 11/13/06, ted leslie wrote:

I agree, i like to see the feed back in the group to see how the community is taking it.

Not in this group buddy. Over here the lemmings prefer to stay focused and keep it a "team effort" as they jump off the cliff. -- jjgitties, "*We* need to convince OpenSUSE to fork, or let 'em die. To bad, it is a wonderful Distro. But their parent company is NOT our friend."

into electronic streams flowing thru the cosmos On Monday 13 November 2006 11:22 am, Kenneth Schneider wrote: <snip>

...

So thank you once again and goodbye.

Bla Bla Bla Bla.

Do we have an opensuse-ot list for this stuff.

nope the suse -OT list is still suse-ot@suse.com at least for today.. Henne, are you going to more it to Opensuse servers and nomenclature or ??? -- j --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Mon, 13 Nov 2006, Jose wrote:

I have this doubt, where I have two local drives with tnfs partitions, I know, is not advisable to write to them using Linux, but my understanding about that rule, is that applies to Linux files being written unto ntfs, does the same applies if I have to ntfs partitions and I want to transfer data from one to the other while I am on a live cd/dvd?

Take a look at http://sourceforge.net/projects/linux-ntfs/ I am using ntfs-3g and it works great. I loaded the kernal module for openSUSE 10.1 and installed the latest BETA from the end of October 2006. The site was udated I think on the 12 Nov 2006. Good Luck, -- Boyd Gerber ZENEZ 1042 East Fort Union #135, Midvale Utah 84047 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org