Re: [SLE] [VERY OT] Thoughts of a thread
I have seen for about 2 days now the thread about Linux is not ready for the desktop and I feel that I need to say a few off topic words. Clearly it appears that this thread was troll bait. I'm sure that this one will get a few as well but it is not intended to be. So here goes
<RANT MODE ACTIVATE>
Alot of people are from what it looks like to me whinning about how Linux is not like Windows. Well it isn't and even though it might get the look and feel similar to windows. I genuinely wonder if some people on this list have the ambition to learn something new. It seems that they don't. All I hear about is how Windows is better or Windows can do this and Windows can do that. If Windows works for you then stay with windows and thank you for trying Linux! Have a good day! I will admit that there are things that Windows can do that Linux does not have the functionality to do right now. Like play a few games that I cannot get to work under Wine/WineX. But there will come a time that I will be able to run them under Linux so in the mean time, I go about my life with the two on my same HDD. Please all that I am trying to say is here is that you need to recognize the differences and learn them. Like Yoda said in the Empire Strikes Back movie I qoute "You must unlearned what you have learned" also "No! Do or do not. Ther is no try." When you take the approach of ok I will learn some of the differences and work with them, you might be a little happier in the long run. Linux seems to work for me and that is great. If MS works for you that is fine too. Just please quit with the belly aching. If it is that hard, please ask for help besides whining that it doesn't work but it works under Windows. If the list is too slow, Call in for paid support. There are options to try and help you with your issue. I do wish to offend but I (personally) have had enough of this and we need to focus on helping out people with Linux problems and finding solutions instead of complaining!
<RANT MODE DEACTIVATE>
Whoa.... Although I agree with the gist of your rant, I think you've missed some big points. I was in on the start of this thread so I've read almost all of it. 1) The person who started it was *NOT* trolling... but was a new user to linux and also an experienced computer person. His comment was that Linux wasn't as easy to deal with as Windows (usually) is. I tend to agree with that and I've been working with Linux since RH 4.0 (so there!) 2) Even though I am would I would consider a very experienced computer person (45+ years at it with mainframes, mini's and micros), I sometimes find myself bending over backwards to get something to work and I may or may not succeed. And I say to myself "no way that next door neighbor Sam is ever going to be able to get that to work!" An example of this was my installation of digikam, a program to draw photos off of a digital camera. It took the loading, compiling, and installing of no less than 7 pieces of software to get it to work, all done in the right order, and moving things to the right places. Yes, it was free, but how much is my time and my knowledge worth? Something I hope. I agree with the premise that Linux needs to be more user friendly. I don't agree with people who want it to be Windows and want it NOW.... 'Nuff said. -- +++ Bruce Marshall bmarsh@bmarsh.com Bellaire, MI +++
<snip>
Whoa.... Although I agree with the gist of your rant, I think you've missed some big points.
OK Lets see what you got
1) The person who started it was *NOT* trolling... but was a new user to linux and also an experienced computer person. His comment was that Linux wasn't as easy to deal with as Windows (usually) is.
I still think that he was mainly because of the wording but I aslo see your point as well. Underline the word usually.
I tend to agree with that and I've been working with Linux since RH 4.0 (so there!)
No need to get ugly about it. I didn't get introduced to Linux til a freind gave me a copy of RH 5.1 and told me to play with it.
2) Even though I am would I would consider a very experienced computer person (45+ years at it with mainframes, mini's and micros), I sometimes find myself bending over backwards to get something to work and I may or may not succeed. And I say to myself "no way that next door neighbor Sam is ever going to be able to get that to work!"
An example of this was my installation of digikam, a program to draw photos off of a digital camera. It took the loading, compiling, and installing of no less than 7 pieces of software to get it to work, all done in the right order, and moving things to the right places. Yes, it was free, but how much is my time and my knowledge worth? Something I hope.
I have had similar issues. See that knowledge is worth alot! Now you may be able to help others that have the same issues as you did. But I agree that the school of hard knocks is a bit rough for someone without alot of knowledge especially if they need to compile programs. People like us "geeks" or "computer persons" can help others who are not so knowedgeable. This kind of knowledge is not in a book but in ones experiences.
I agree with the premise that Linux needs to be more user friendly. I don't agree with people who want it to be Windows and want it NOW....
'Nuff said.
Cool enough for me! -- Marshall "Nothing is impossible, We just do not have all the anwsers to make the impossible, possible."
I was in on the start of this thread so I've read almost all of it.
1) The person who started it was *NOT* trolling... but was a new user to linux and also an experienced computer person. His comment was that Linux wasn't as easy to deal with as Windows (usually) is.
Correct (I confess to starting the thread, mea maxima culpa). I'm running both Windows and Linux - Windows for work or when on my Laptop - which has to be Windows for work - for now, Linux by choice. I *REALLY* want to see Linux do better, which was the purpose of the original post. I've worked with computers - mainframe, mini, and micro - since 1970 (you've got me beat, I'm really impressed).
2) Even though I am would I would consider a very experienced computer person (45+ years at it with mainframes, mini's and micros), I sometimes find myself bending over backwards to get something to work and I may or may not succeed. And I say to myself "no way that next door neighbor Sam is ever going to be able to get that to work!"
This is the main point I was making. I know there have been several anecdotal posts about non-computer types happy with Linux. These are really no more relevant than posts about the (huge number) of people who are very happy with their Windows systems. *ANY* OS is good when it's working correctly - the real test is what happens when something goes wrong. FOR THE MOST PART, when Windows attempt to recover for the user in a more graceful way than Linux. While I can remember the days of having to to edit win.ini, most systems don't even have that file any more. Most people are *NOT* going to to be comfortable editing config files to fix problems. I'm not claiming in any way that Windows will solve the problem for us, but it fails in a way that makes the user feel that it tried. For most users, perception is more important than substance.
I agree with the premise that Linux needs to be more user friendly. I don't agree with people who want it to be Windows and want it NOW....
Actually, I don't *EVER* want it to be Windows. I'd like to see it remain an OS with the substance it has now. I was simply stating that it needs to work with the users more when there are problems. This isn't intended as an indictment, it is a statement of a problem that needs to be overcome for it to significantly grow in market share.
On Monday 17 February 2003 22:36, Michael Satterwhite wrote:
Actually, I don't *EVER* want it to be Windows. I'd like to see it remain an OS with the substance it has now. I was simply stating that it needs to work with the users more when there are problems. This isn't intended as an indictment, it is a statement of a problem that needs to be overcome for it to significantly grow in market share.
Simply put, I disagree. The hardware vendors should work more to produce drivers for their products. The commercial software vendors should work more to port over well known products from the 'other' platform. Also, I think it's the users who should be working more with the OS. If they can't appreciate the complexities and, by extension, the flexibility of the platform than they should choose one which is more comfortable for them. SuSE, Red Hat and others have made (and continue to make) great strides in making Linux a more newbie-friendly environment. The desktop truely has come a long way with KDE and Gnome stepping it up. If the distro's go too far and 'dummy down' their Linux offerings to the point where they are deciding 'anything' for me with no option to change their default (a la MS), that's when I'll drop them.
participants (4)
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Bruce Marshall -
Ken Phelan -
Marshall Heartley -
Michael Satterwhite