[opensuse] total failure with all webRTC and VOIP calls since the dawn of time
I posted here at the start of last year but had no response to this message: http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse/2014-01/msg00864.html So here's a very long follow-up, but you can't blame me for not giving enough detail :) (someone invariably will) Abysmally, more than a year and a half later, I'm still having endless problems making any form of voice/video calls under anything but Skype, and even that has presented many issues in recent years to the point of sometimes being unusable. I'd like opinion or advice from anybody else who successfully makes calls from one openSUSE or Linux machine to another, using a webRTC solution such as Firefox Hello or Talky (in Firefox, not Chrome), or alternatively Jitsi. These are what I have tried to absolutely no avail, thus I think throwing other applications into the hat is of little use even if it works for you; there is likely some other fundamental problem that needs resolving. Is it possible that either the openSUSE firewall or AppArmor could block any or part of these services? Even if so, that doesn't explain problems I've had on another machine running AVLinux. Here's some of the issues I've been encountering since trying to make such calls over the last 3 years to another openSUSE user in another country: - Audio or video is non-existent at one end or both - Audio is so choppy and robotised to the point of being inaudible - Audio is delayed by anything up to three minutes in reaching the other end (I hear my own echo minutes after I've spoken, in a voice resembling the final dying words of the head of the Daleks) - Video freezes after a short while, or is garbled As such, I've never once been able to make a successfull call. These are amongst the many things I've tried (list non-exhaustive): - Several computers (desktops / laptops, 32/64-bit) - Different distros (always Linux, but I've tried under both openSUSE and AVLinux) - Different distro versions (from at least openSUSE 12.3, perhaps earlier, through to 13.2 on one device). The main machines at both ends have had fresh installs at least once. - Different sound servers (AVLinux for example uses Jack and doesn't have PulseAudio installed; previously I tried with ALSA on openSUSE) - Different Phonon backends in KDE (Gstreamer is the only one that now seems to work on my main 13.1 installation; installing the latest VLC backend available from official updates results in error messages) - Multiple webcams, microphones or the built-in mic on my laptop - Multiple sound mixers: alsamixer, PulseAudio Volume Control, KMix, some others on AVLinux, and playing about with all the settings I can find within. See this screen capture from yesterday, for example: http://susepaste.org/43266483 - Anything obviously wrong? - Firefox versions from 22 thru 40 (for Firefox Hello / Talky), and enabling/disabling video acceleration in the browser - Different Internet Service Providers from two separate addresses at each end (we've both moved in the time I've been trying to fix this; in all cases these are broadband services that present no noticeable bandwidth problems, indeed PlusNet at the UK end prioritise VOIP traffic for the relevant account type) - Router settings (static/dynamic IP, mixed IPv4/6 or IPv4 only). Both ends now use Ethernet connections though I have also tried with wifi. I don't wish to install nor use Chrome/Chromium at both ends just for this one purpose. By many other user accounts/experiences, solutions such as Firefox Hello should 'just work'. I've been trying since webRTC first got implemented in Firefox around version 22. It never works for me. Yesterday I spent another hour trying out various things. In Jitsi, having checked and monitored my mic and output levels in three different mixers, then verified both the webcam and mic are picking up correctly in Jitsi's settings (XMPP/Jabber call) upon establishing the connection, no video appears at either end, the mic monitor levels show nothing and neither end can see nor hear anything. None of the mixer apps show any changes. Jitsi, with its ill-fitting interface that clashes with my dark theme, also causes video issues when I open other windows like KDE System Settings or Konsole. I haven't experienced video issues anywhere else before on this system. In Firefox Hello, I activate the mic/webcam when prompted, my own video shows, though it usually freezes after a couple of minutes and hogs the machine's resources, forcing a hang-up and re-establishing of the call. My daily machine is a laptop with a Core 2 Duo @2.4GHz, 4GB of RAM, an nVidia Quadro NVS 135M (proprietary driver), and an Intel 530 SSD. I can run multiple other simultaneous programs with no problem. When the other party joins, I see their video, albeit at a slow frame rate, I can just about make out their robotised voices, but they hear what I say up to three minutes later as incomprehensible gobbledegook, by which time my video's frozen again. In Talky, I see my video, but nothing at all happens when the other party joins the call. There is no indication / sound / video. They tell me they reached the same screen as me with their own video shown in the left column, after activating the mic/webcam, but nothing more happened. As I mentioned, even Skype causes difficulties although we used to use it regularly with no problems. I've been guarding an ancient (ten-year-old) 32-bit laptop in reserve that I have to wheel out just for this purpose. It runs oS 13.2 with LXDE and once upon a time handled Skype under KDE as my main machine, but in the last three years Skype calls have got progressively unreliable and are sometimes unusable too, with garbled robot stuttering voices. This is insane! I'm lost as to what more I can try. Anybody else hitting their head against the wall in the same way? gumb -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 8/20/2015 6:16 AM, gumb wrote:
openSUSE or Linux machine to another, using a webRTC solution such as Firefox Hello or Talky (in Firefox, not Chrome), or alternatively Jitsi. These are what I have tried to absolutely no avail, thus I think throwing other applications into the hat is of little use even if it works for you;
So it looks like you've spent the better part of a year beating the same dead horse. There are any number of video chat solutions on Android, (and IOS). some of which I have used, some built in, most free. It seem you are more concerned with using Firefox than actually arriving at a solution. -- _____________________________________ ---This space for rent--- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 20/08/15 21:18, John Andersen wrote:
So it looks like you've spent the better part of a year beating the same dead horse. There are any number of video chat solutions on Android, (and IOS). some of which I have used, some built in, most free.
It seem you are more concerned with using Firefox than actually arriving at a solution.
As I stated, I've also tried Jitsi, a solution that seems to work well for other Linux users (the Linux Action Show even used it for live broadcasts). And Skype itself presents issues. So that's two non-Firefox applications to gauge things by. Given that neither me nor the other party ever uses Chrome, and having it open permanently and exclusively for the sake of occasional calls would be a big resource hog, I don't see any worth in pursuing that route. I'm not sure why you bring up Android and iOS, neither of which we use, but it's true there are now countless VOIP solutions similar to Jitsi or Skype that have a Linux version. Many are proprietary, or seem unlikely to ever gain as much momentum as those solutions I've already tried. Having wanted to rid myself forever of Skype, I'd hoped to pick a cross-platform alternative that any other person I might want to call could use with little probability of having to install specific software for that purpose. FF Hello or another browser-based webRTC offering such as Talky fit that bill better than [insert yet another Jitsi-like hopeful here]. They already work cross-browser with Chrome and Opera, and may integrate with IE and possibly Safari in future. gumb -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2015-08-20 21:33, gumb wrote:
Given that neither me nor the other party ever uses Chrome, and having it open permanently and exclusively for the sake of occasional calls would be a big resource hog, I don't see any worth in pursuing that route. I'm not sure why you bring up Android and iOS, neither of which we use,
Well, you could setup a tablet for video conferencing. It is also different hardware. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
On 8/20/2015 12:33 PM, gumb wrote:
I'm not sure why you bring up Android and iOS, neither of which we use,
Wouldn't you know, I'd reply to one of the 327 people on the planet with neither an android nor IOS phone or tablet. You might try installing Telepathy for linux. It has a boatload of capability from simple text messaging to voice to video conferencing and file transfer. If you want a better chance of having any random person you might want to call having the solution you happen to standardize on, I can assure you it won't be webrtc or anything voip-ish, nor anything running on linux. It will be smartphone or tablet based. -- _____________________________________ ---This space for rent--- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 20/08/15 21:48, John Andersen wrote:
If you want a better chance of having any random person you might want to call having the solution you happen to standardize on, I can assure you it won't be webrtc or anything voip-ish, nor anything running on linux.
It will be smartphone or tablet based.
But that's the point. Firefox Hello and webRTC is browser-based and has the potential to work across the entire device spectrum, regardless of OS or browser choice (if MS and Apple pull their fingers out of both their ears and their arses). It doesn't rely on a standalone client or app. I have no intention of buying a smartphone or tablet. I had to use the latter the other day when a friend with an Android tablet offered my only hope of Internet away from home. I wanted to smash the thing to bits, it was so atrocious. And as for the former, I'm rather looking forward to these new 'smart feature phones' that should arrive running FirefoxOS before the end of the year: http://firefoxosguide.com/firefox-os/smart-feature-phones-coming-powered-fir... For what it's worth, my choice of Jitsi was not only because it's cross-platform and often receives rave reviews in the Linux community, but also because they recently integrated webRTC into that too, although I'm not certain how to make that work. gumb -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 08/20/2015 05:19 PM, gumb wrote:
But that's the point. Firefox Hello and webRTC is browser-based and has the potential to work across the entire device spectrum, regardless of OS or browser choice (if MS and Apple pull their fingers out of both their ears and their arses). It doesn't rely on a standalone client or app.
That's not the point. You're trying to establish why something doesn't work. To do that you need to establish what there is that is 'similar' that does or doesn't work and see how they are different or similar.
I have no intention of buying a smartphone or tablet. I had to use the latter the other day when a friend with an Android tablet offered my only hope of Internet away from home. I wanted to smash the thing to bits, it was so atrocious.
Nobody, least of all me, is demanding you buy one, only that you use one to establish the boundaries and scope of your problem. Heck, I rent power tools that I use once but have no need own, just for one project. Pumps, sanders, whatever. I'm only going to tear up the broadloom and expose and finish the beautiful hardwood the once, I don't need to OWN all that equipment. You only need to ESTABLISH what works and why and how its different from what doesn't work; you don't NEED to own those tablets you so loath. -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 08/20/2015 03:18 PM, John Andersen wrote:
It seem you are more concerned with using Firefox than actually arriving at a solution.
I have used Firefox Hello on openSUSE 13.1 and it works fine. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 21/08/15 02:54, James Knott wrote:
I have used Firefox Hello on openSUSE 13.1 and it works fine.
Can you provide any more details on your setup? E.g. - what Firefox version(s)? - is the other party on openSUSE, some other Linux, or another OS? - video or audio only? - PulseAudio or ALSA? - quality of call or anything else that might be relevant. Cheers, gumb -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 08/21/2015 10:22 AM, gumb wrote:
On 21/08/15 02:54, James Knott wrote:
I have used Firefox Hello on openSUSE 13.1 and it works fine.
Can you provide any more details on your setup? E.g.
- what Firefox version(s)? - is the other party on openSUSE, some other Linux, or another OS? - video or audio only? - PulseAudio or ALSA? - quality of call
or anything else that might be relevant.
Cheers, gumb
I just made a call from openSUSE 13.1 and Firefox 39.0 to Windows 7 and Firefox 39.0.3. Works fine. BTW, one thing that's really useful for solving problems is Wireshark. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 08/20/2015 09:16 AM, gumb wrote:
using a webRTC solution
a) no but I've used SIP on a number of devices as well as Linux. I had to remember not to have spaces in the middle of the passwords. I don't know about the iPhone but the native phone system on android seems to have a SIP-over-internet option too. And yes I've used dedicated tools like Zoiper. Some work better than others. b) I've used Google's hangouts for all of text, voice and video, locally across the city, over the internet and a Verizon JetPack and wifi to a boat of the Florida keys, and to a cell phone in Ridyah, all with about the same excellent quality of service. c) I've used the WebEx video system, also in conference mode, as tried a couple of other video presentation applications with varying success; always success but the varying involves quality of service, especially as the number of active participants goes up. As a presentation service that's another matter. I'm not a enthusiast of any of these. I tried them out to see if they worked and how they worked and if they worked well. If I ever have to write a DR plan and need a way of communicating, the heck, hangouts is pretty good! But I don't see it replacing my POTS. They are tools; and they all worked OK with NAT, not NAT, and various versions of Linux and in a couple of cases Windows. Most require a browser for initiation. Some, like hangouts, are very specific. Personally I think that post Microsoft Skype is .... not the same, but YMMV. I suggest that "for the duration" of an experiment you discard your prejudices and dislikes of phones and tablets and try "wolf fencing" the problem instead of battering at it head-on. Find out what works as well as what doesn't and then consider how they and their protocols interact with the system. Right now all you're dealing with is a long line of negatives. If all of SIP, hangouts etc don't work for you on Linux but do work for you on phone/tablets then that's an important discovery. You've just eliminated all of 'networking' from the issue and shifted the focus exclusively to Linux. The other advice I keep giving people is to focus on the desired achievement, not the mechanism. http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=358695 -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2015-08-21 07:25, Anton Aylward wrote:
I'm not a enthusiast of any of these. I tried them out to see if they worked and how they worked and if they worked well. If I ever have to write a DR plan and need a way of communicating, the heck, hangouts is pretty good! But I don't see it replacing my POTS.
POTS is on the way out. My phone company has connected me via fibre (it was the only way they offered to improve the speed of my 1 mbit/s ADSL), and the house phone is connected to a device that is connected to the fibre and the power. That is, my phones are now powered from my mains supply, not from the (nonexistent) copper line. And it is done by some kind of VoIP. I don't know exactly what technology, maybe "transparent" SIP. Yes, a mains failure means I can not phone anybody for help. Of course, I had to install an UPS, because the thing design did not consider including a battery backup in the ONT device :-/
I suggest that "for the duration" of an experiment you discard your prejudices and dislikes of phones and tablets and try "wolf fencing" the problem instead of battering at it head-on. Find out what works as well as what doesn't and then consider how they and their protocols interact with the system.
Yep :-) -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2015-08-21 07:25, Anton Aylward wrote:
I'm not a enthusiast of any of these. I tried them out to see if they worked and how they worked and if they worked well. If I ever have to write a DR plan and need a way of communicating, the heck, hangouts is pretty good! But I don't see it replacing my POTS.
POTS is on the way out. My phone company has connected me via fibre (it was the only way they offered to improve the speed of my 1 mbit/s ADSL), and the house phone is connected to a device that is connected to the fibre and the power. That is, my phones are now powered from my mains supply, not from the (nonexistent) copper line.
Absolutely. The 2-wire copper wire will continue to exist, but it won't be long before the "traffic" will be converted to VoIP in the nearest box/"exchange".
And it is done by some kind of VoIP. I don't know exactly what technology, maybe "transparent" SIP.
Yes, a mains failure means I can not phone anybody for help.
Fortunately, mains outages are rare and everyone has a mobile phone. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (22.5°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - your free DNS host, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 08/21/2015 09:08 AM, Per Jessen wrote:
Fortunately, mains outages are rare and everyone has a mobile phone.
I don't know about 'rare'. Even here in the Ontario Heartland ... well there was the great north-western outage, and we had a two week outage during our great ice storm. q.v. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeast_blackout_of_2003 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/December_2013_North_American_ice_storm#Ontario The ice brought down many trees which in turn bought down urban power lines. Much of the city was without power for a week over Christmas and some part for an additional period as long as two more weeks. I kept my cell phone powered from my car; house computer/PC was out. about 1 in 5 gas stations had power for the pumps. Don't know how. "Rare"? I think not. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_major_power_outages That's major. Maintenance/local failure outages of between 30 seconds and 12 hours are not uncommon all the year round. -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-08-21 15:24, Anton Aylward wrote:
On 08/21/2015 09:08 AM, Per Jessen wrote:
Fortunately, mains outages are rare and everyone has a mobile phone.
I don't know about 'rare'. Even here in the Ontario Heartland ... well there was the great north-western outage, and we had a two week outage during our great ice storm. q.v.
Yes. I got a book on that one :-) This summer a city near Seville lost all power for a day. The city transformer station exploded or something. Besides air conditioners and fans in the middle of summer in the Andalusian pan, fridges stopped cooling at homes and stores. All food in them was lost. In a place such as a hen farm (eggs) the birds can die because of the heat. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlXXL+MACgkQja8UbcUWM1xM1QD9HRFjUcz7Bkp5EOJWij/Sk5SV H41ticF9b4FEV6M6/JYA/j8xSvJrhoz9CbJzkLaKtyEse2IaokJXHTsk6XHNdQui =k8Gp -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-08-21 15:08, Per Jessen wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
Yes, a mains failure means I can not phone anybody for help.
Fortunately, mains outages are rare and everyone has a mobile phone.
Not that rare here. In June, technicians from another TV/phone company were re-routing their cable to a building that was being demolished at the other side of the street. They cut the coax cable... but instead they nipped the mains to four houses. A bit before lunch time. It was about 3 hours to repair. Two months before, the connection of that same cable melted, because my neighbour converted to full house air conditioning... and the power company "forgot" to upgrade the cable. This one happened about 2 AM. Actually, the cable was upgraded on the second incident. I can also have failures due to me turning on the washing machine at the same time as the hot water, power limit exceeded. Then, the company here can disconnect you because there has been a mistake at the bank and the invoices not paid. Arguing can take days. Mobile? Yes, but you have to charge them. Mine barely last a day. So I have an external battery for extra charging. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlXXLlQACgkQja8UbcUWM1yUTAD/SM21BrDrT2Sdf5f4tvbyKr2M xSSa76+9PqetGjRXlocA/R0RW9cWMXnsLcalw7DwjzdvYwSZP260jGFXXvNlapxc =tvqu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Carlos E. R. wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256
On 2015-08-21 15:08, Per Jessen wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
Yes, a mains failure means I can not phone anybody for help.
Fortunately, mains outages are rare and everyone has a mobile phone.
Not that rare here.
I knew I should have added "around here" :-(
Mobile? Yes, but you have to charge them. Mine barely last a day. So I have an external battery for extra charging.
My wife's iPhone also only lasts about a day, but she does use it quite a bit. I have Cat B25, the battery lasts about a week, but I pretty much only use it for SMS'ing. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (23.1°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - your free DNS host, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2015-08-21 16:17, Per Jessen wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
Not that rare here.
I knew I should have added "around here" :-(
LOL :-) Hey! I live in Europe! :-D
Mobile? Yes, but you have to charge them. Mine barely last a day. So I have an external battery for extra charging.
My wife's iPhone also only lasts about a day, but she does use it quite a bit. I have Cat B25, the battery lasts about a week, but I pretty much only use it for SMS'ing.
Smartphones eat batteries even stored in the pocket :-( -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 08/21/2015 10:23 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Smartphones eat batteries even stored in the pocket
You might be surprised just how long a smartphone can last if you turn on "extreme battery saving" mode (if so equipped, or just shut down the data connection if not). Especially if you keep it in your pocket with the screen off as much as possible. (Extreme battery saving on my HTC only allows phone, sms, mail, calendar clock, reduces brightness, turns off data connection when screen is off, turns off bluetooth, GPS, Sync,and notifications. All of these could be done manually, but EBS makes it easier, and you can set EBS to kick in at low battery levels of you choice.) Still I've collected a couple of those external USB batteries over the years for camping and power outages. I recently recharged my phone with one of those for 5 days in a row while in the hospital. Shop for these and you can find them for well under $25 http://www.amazon.com/KMASHI-Thunderbolt-Incredible-Blackberry-Smartphones/d... http://www.amazon.com/KMASHI-15000mAh-Ultra-High-External-Motorola/dp/B00JP8... - -- After all is said and done, more is said than done. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iEYEARECAAYFAlXXbwcACgkQv7M3G5+2DLKjNwCaAr0g7ZHCqrj3SS2M35j9czB1 6woAnRKcqqMgqQt1V1U6dWjcWzLfMTHh =y9Sl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2015-08-21 20:33, John Andersen wrote:
On 08/21/2015 10:23 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Smartphones eat batteries even stored in the pocket
You might be surprised just how long a smartphone can last if you turn on "extreme battery saving" mode (if so equipped,
Nope. It is android 2.
or just shut down the data connection if not).
LOL. That's not something I can do. Means many features stop, starting with messaging.
Still I've collected a couple of those external USB batteries over the years for camping and power outages.
I have one. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
On 08/21/2015 09:57 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Mobile? Yes, but you have to charge them. Mine barely last a day. So I have an external battery for extra charging.
1. Portable 22,000 mAh pack Yes that needs to be charged too 2. Wall wart charger for rotating set of spare batteries a) I never seem to charge the phone, just swap in a charged battery b) I also have a overcapacity battery and hump-backed case for when things get dire. That can last 3 days. c) There are also wall wart chargers for pencil batteries for things that make use of them and another charger for my spare camera battery. 3. Charge phone or laptop from car. Running the car is an expensive way to produce electricity. 4. The battery in my late model Samsung tablet is amazing, it last 3 days of intensive use! -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2015-08-21 16:23, Anton Aylward wrote:
On 08/21/2015 09:57 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Mobile? Yes, but you have to charge them. Mine barely last a day. So I have an external battery for extra charging.
1. Portable 22,000 mAh pack Yes that needs to be charged too
Yes, I have a portable pack, not that large, though. And a 12 volt car battery in a room.
3. Charge phone or laptop from car. Running the car is an expensive way to produce electricity.
Indeed. I was considering buying some solar panels, but the government here is decidedly against them: you have to pay extra taxes. :-/ (and they fine you if they discover you didn't declare the solar panels)
4. The battery in my late model Samsung tablet is amazing, it last 3 days of intensive use!
The battery in my cheap (6€) spare plain mobile lasts about a week. The one in my smartphone, about a day. Both are Samsung. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 08/21/2015 10:28 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
I was considering buying some solar panels, but the government here is decidedly against them: you have to pay extra taxes. :-/
That is seriously messed up. You need to get ahold of who ever you vote for and smack some sense into him. Here, large solar panels still qualify for tax CREDITS!! Small "recharger" panels are dirt cheap http://www.amazon.com/ALLPOWERS-Encapsulated-Battery-Charger-130x150mm/dp/B0... Decent ones for a bit more: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00QF1IQV8?psc=1 - -- After all is said and done, more is said than done. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iEYEARECAAYFAlXXcdwACgkQv7M3G5+2DLK47ACgmjMSI+rEazuMU7r+a9V4Y7dS gAMAoJs72W8lcq4Xfloi2+ZHrCFCmm+a =ZbJq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2015-08-21 20:45, John Andersen wrote:
On 08/21/2015 10:28 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
I was considering buying some solar panels, but the government here is decidedly against them: you have to pay extra taxes. :-/
That is seriously messed up. You need to get ahold of who ever you vote for and smack some sense into him.
The vote here is not nominal. You vote for a party, not a person. Not exactly, but that is what means in the end. Here, the "socialists" promoted alternative energies with tax credits and several methods. The current government, right wing, instead penalize them. There are elections coming by in months.
Small "recharger" panels are dirt cheap
I have one. It is completely incapable. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 08/21/2015 11:53 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Small "recharger" panels are dirt cheap I have one. It is completely incapable.
My friend has one like the second link I sent on his sailboat. I guarantee it works. - -- After all is said and done, more is said than done. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iEYEARECAAYFAlXXdPcACgkQv7M3G5+2DLIGCACcCpEqpeQr3WxspP9dm6R3MNHi +PAAni2iH5+LG6zsFR2Fe1qQtKYfQFby =tn11 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 08/21/2015 01:28 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
I was considering buying some solar panels, but the government here is decidedly against them: you have to pay extra taxes. :-/ (and they fine you if they discover you didn't declare the solar panels)
The more you tell us about Spain, the more it appears to be a stupid country. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 08/21/2015 09:28 PM, James Knott wrote:
On 08/21/2015 01:28 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
I was considering buying some solar panels, but the government here is decidedly against them: you have to pay extra taxes. :-/ (and they fine you if they discover you didn't declare the solar panels)
The more you tell us about Spain, the more it appears to be a stupid country.
It seems that there is one group that gets termed 'socialist' that has a more 'social' agenda such as reducing CO2/fighting global by encouraging people to use sun power and alternatives, while on the other there are the 'conservatives', however you choose to name them, who are actually restrictive of personal initiatives and penalise such efforts. Spain may appear stupid in the doing of this but its not alone in having two political parties who seem more interested in being polar opposites than they are in representing the needs or the wishes of their electorate. It could be worse? We have THREE parties! -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-08-22 03:39, Anton Aylward wrote:
On 08/21/2015 09:28 PM, James Knott wrote:
On 08/21/2015 01:28 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
I was considering buying some solar panels, but the government here is decidedly against them: you have to pay extra taxes. :-/ (and they fine you if they discover you didn't declare the solar panels)
The more you tell us about Spain, the more it appears to be a stupid country.
Well, some say that those politics are ordered from outside countries and parties, but I will not name them here :-p About solar taxes, see here - just found it on google: http://www.solarcitizens.org.au/suntax [QUOTE]“Solar-powered households face higher fees to use grid” read the headline in The Australian. “Australia’s one million households with rooftop solar photovoltaic panels face the prospect of higher charges to use the poles and wires that distribute electricity” it went on.[/QUOTE] There are more. Let me see... The Koch Attack on Solar Energy - The New York Times www.nytimes.com/.../the-koch-attack-on-solar-energ... Traducir esta página 26 abr. 2014 - Naturally it's a tax on something the country needs: solar energy panels. For the last few months, the Kochs and other big polluters have been ... Arizona Wants to 'Tax' Solar Power | TakePart www.takepart.com/.../solar-energy-arizona-net-mete... Traducir esta página 22 jul. 2013 - A new proposal would slap existing solar-paneled homeowners with a fee of up to $100 per month for the privilege of selling excess power ... Mmm... seems Spain is not the only stupid in the game :-P
It seems that there is one group that gets termed 'socialist' that has a more 'social' agenda such as reducing CO2/fighting global by encouraging people to use sun power and alternatives, while on the other there are the 'conservatives', however you choose to name them, who are actually restrictive of personal initiatives and penalise such efforts.
Yep. The names are actually irrelevant. But let us not get deeper into politics. We should talk about Linux. :-) - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlXX4hEACgkQja8UbcUWM1xU2wD+JILtO5HNlWclAvOFWlMVzsx2 GpFAU7mNZu2Hlodhy3IA/3PRwcbMsmI6PMlIK4WttXbnXOgYEy5n9fIdUYZIW/y8 =kmuc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 08/21/2015 09:57 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
I can also have failures due to me turning on the washing machine at the same time as the hot water, power limit exceeded.
Sounds like you have an inadequate service. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-08-22 03:11, James Knott wrote:
On 08/21/2015 09:57 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
I can also have failures due to me turning on the washing machine at the same time as the hot water, power limit exceeded.
Sounds like you have an inadequate service.
Sounds like an understatement :-D - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlXX0EwACgkQja8UbcUWM1wHzAD/dNmf1Usi8XKfit7Mgp+AiwNn jlRLtRKfpPY9i5DWVOAA/0R5Rh07KDGosdZYoxBcr4OtHdlbJKJpmIzxB3Ft9IQ1 =LGLI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 08/21/2015 09:11 PM, James Knott wrote:
On 08/21/2015 09:57 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
I can also have failures due to me turning on the washing machine at the same time as the hot water, power limit exceeded.
Sounds like you have an inadequate service.
Sound like he has a washing machine that is mechanical, electrical powered, rather than a washing machine that is a couple of young kids. -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Per Jessen composed on 2015-08-21 15:08 (UTC+0200):
Fortunately, mains outages are rare and everyone has a mobile phone.
Outages here are common. I have no mobile phone. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Felix Miata wrote:
Per Jessen composed on 2015-08-21 15:08 (UTC+0200):
Fortunately, mains outages are rare and everyone has a mobile phone.
Outages here are common.
I have no mobile phone.
Keep your fingers crossed that your phone company will keeping operating POTS for you. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (23.8°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - free dynamic DNS, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Per Jessen composed on 2015-08-21 17:33 (UTC+0200):
Felix Miata wrote:
Per Jessen composed on 2015-08-21 15:08 (UTC+0200):
Fortunately, mains outages are rare and everyone has a mobile phone.
Outages here are common.
I have no mobile phone.
Keep your fingers crossed that your phone company will keeping operating POTS for you.
No mobile != POTS. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2015-08-21 19:43, Felix Miata wrote:
Per Jessen composed on 2015-08-21 17:33 (UTC+0200):
Felix Miata wrote:
Per Jessen composed on 2015-08-21 15:08 (UTC+0200):
Fortunately, mains outages are rare and everyone has a mobile phone.
Outages here are common.
I have no mobile phone.
Keep your fingers crossed that your phone company will keeping operating POTS for you.
No mobile != POTS.
The point is, that if outages are common there and your phone is not real POTS, then a power failure leaves you without any phone service. No mobile -> no alternative service. POTS is served by copper wire from the exchange, needing no external power to work. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 08/21/2015 11:59 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
The point is, that if outages are common there and your phone is not real POTS, then a power failure leaves you without any phone service. No mobile -> no alternative service.
In some places, cell towers have to have several days of backup power as does the entire infrastructure from the cell tower to the net backbone. In some places, emergency fuel allocation goes first to cell towers. http://www.njslom.org/cell-towers-fcc-ruling.html http://qz.com/21909/hurricane-sandy-and-cell-phone-network-service/ - -- After all is said and done, more is said than done. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iEYEARECAAYFAlXXd1QACgkQv7M3G5+2DLK/vQCeKAPOWJ3nZza6Jn/OJnUR6Olk X/kAoJJL8FU459q+2FTpTlNc8DaF/nb7 =FWf/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2015-08-21 21:09, John Andersen wrote:
On 08/21/2015 11:59 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
The point is, that if outages are common there and your phone is not real POTS, then a power failure leaves you without any phone service. No mobile -> no alternative service.
In some places, cell towers have to have several days of backup power as does the entire infrastructure from the cell tower to the net backbone.
I know, I have installed them. However, with POTS, you have only a single site to keep powered for an entire city coverage. They are often connected to two main power lines. If both fail, there are huge batteries, and then, you can activate the generator. If this fails, you can still have brought an extra emergency backup generator, by contract with the power company. And the phones in the houses are all powered by the copper line coming from the exchange. That is, till they invented the cordless phone... -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
Carlos E. R. composed on 2015-08-21 20:59 (UTC+0200):
Felix Miata wrote:
Per Jessen composed on 2015-08-21 17:33 (UTC+0200):
Felix Miata wrote:
Per Jessen composed on 2015-08-21 15:08 (UTC+0200):
Fortunately, mains outages are rare and everyone has a mobile phone.
Outages here are common.
I have no mobile phone.
Keep your fingers crossed that your phone company will keeping operating POTS for you.
No mobile != POTS.
The point is, that if outages are common there and your phone is not real POTS, then a power failure leaves you without any phone service. No mobile -> no alternative service.
Depends on definitions. Some people instead of (or in addition to) POTS have "mobile". Some people instead of POTS have DSL. Some people instead of POTS have phone variously provided via some type of cableco Internet connection. http://www.verizonwireless.com/home-office-solutions/wireless-home-phone/ describes what I have. It provides phone service throughout the building to standard wired telephones via copper, with power provided by its internal battery when its wall wart isn't getting fed 120V by UPS or local power grid.
POTS is served by copper wire from the exchange, needing no external power to work. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 08/21/2015 08:20 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2015-08-21 07:25, Anton Aylward wrote:
I'm not a enthusiast of any of these. I tried them out to see if they worked and how they worked and if they worked well. If I ever have to write a DR plan and need a way of communicating, the heck, hangouts is pretty good! But I don't see it replacing my POTS.
POTS is on the way out.
You took me too literally. I mean the function as opposed to enhanced services such as 'hangouts' or 'Skye' that can do text transfer, image transfer and video. "Plain old" meaning 'just voice' and nothing more.
My phone company has connected me via fibre (it was the only way they offered to improve the speed of my 1 mbit/s ADSL), and the house phone is connected to a device that is connected to the fibre and the power. That is, my phones are now powered from my mains supply, not from the (nonexistent) copper line.
Al the Big name telcos here off that and all the aspiring wannabes too.
And it is done by some kind of VoIP. I don't know exactly what technology, maybe "transparent" SIP.
No, its SIP and its uses a box, an "ATA" that implements the detail. I had one from Rogers, I now have a LinkSys one that sits along side my wifi router and does the same job and more. It connects via Ethernet to my firewall/switch. As well as the two phone sockets that connect to the house phone wiring it also has 3 Ethernet sockets on the back. It cost me $40 over a decade ago. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analog_telephone_adapter The Rogers ATA tapped directly to the cable that bring TV and Internet into the house. If I were using Bell Fibre rather than Rogers Cable it would be more like your situation. The Rogers box also had a batter so it could survive power outages. My linksys relies on the UPS under my desk keeping the cable router and the firewall switch up and running. That is not a long term proposition.
Yes, a mains failure means I can not phone anybody for help. Of course, I had to install an UPS, because the thing design did not consider including a battery backup in the ONT device :-/
To be honest I don't use this a lot, I think POTS, that is house-bound wired voice only phone is on the way out. In some countries its been abandoned altogether. Its not just that cell is more convenient, carry the one handset inside the house and out, but that the alternatives to POTS have more desirable features and functions. -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-08-21 15:11, Anton Aylward wrote:
On 08/21/2015 08:20 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
POTS is on the way out.
You took me too literally.
Yes. I'm a "switching technician" (5ESS). To me POTS has a very definite meaning ;-)
To be honest I don't use this a lot, I think POTS, that is house-bound wired voice only phone is on the way out. In some countries its been abandoned altogether. Its not just that cell is more convenient, carry the one handset inside the house and out, but that the alternatives to POTS have more desirable features and functions.
As what I have in fact is SIP, they could offer real SIP with all its features, not plain phones connected to a copper "emulator". - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlXXMUMACgkQja8UbcUWM1zM8gD+LgOMEzNpILsdfyfRDmZyzFhx zMs/mP+4EzYsHlwHkJAA/RFN9cvI8lPaoeXSppjsDyQ/H2JeRiGNR1bKZCNygJXI =qNwU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 08/21/2015 08:20 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Yes, a mains failure means I can not phone anybody for help. Of course, I had to install an UPS, because the thing design did not consider including a battery backup in the ONT device :-/
My "POTS" line is VoIP over the cable TV network, but the terminal includes a battery that's good for several hours. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
gumb wrote:
Abysmally, more than a year and a half later, I'm still having endless problems making any form of voice/video calls under anything but Skype, and even that has presented many issues in recent years to the point of sometimes being unusable. I'd like opinion or advice from anybody else who successfully makes calls from one openSUSE or Linux machine to another, using a webRTC solution such as Firefox Hello or Talky (in Firefox, not Chrome), or alternatively Jitsi.
Unfortunately, I don't use any of those, but otherwise I have been using Linux for telephony for almost ten years. (VoIP, Asterisk, SIP).
These are what I have tried to absolutely no avail, thus I think throwing other applications into the hat is of little use even if it works for you; there is likely some other fundamental problem that needs resolving.
Is it possible that either the openSUSE firewall or AppArmor could block any or part of these services?
Entirely possible, but both are easily switched off to verify.
Here's some of the issues I've been encountering since trying to make such calls over the last 3 years to another openSUSE user in another country:
- Audio or video is non-existent at one end or both - Audio is so choppy and robotised to the point of being inaudible - Audio is delayed by anything up to three minutes in reaching the other end (I hear my own echo minutes after I've spoken, in a voice resembling the final dying words of the head of the Daleks) - Video freezes after a short while, or is garbled
What sort of internet connection is in use (on both sides) and how far are you apart? Especially wrt latency. Voice doesn't require much bandwidth, but latency will kill a conversation. Mind you, none of those issues suggest it is about the firewall or apparmor. If it were me, and I was dead set on using one of the browsers/apps you've mentioned, I'd pick the most mature one and pursue that. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (16.1°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - virtual servers, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
participants (7)
-
Anton Aylward -
Carlos E. R. -
Felix Miata -
gumb -
James Knott -
John Andersen -
Per Jessen