Why no KDE 3.1.4. for SuSE.....???? Who tell's me....... -- GJ Eldering SuSELINUX 8.2 KDE 3.1.3 k_athlon 2.4.20-100-athlon
On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 14:13:59 +0200
Gerrit Jan Eldering
Why no KDE 3.1.4. for SuSE.....????
Don't know. I have given up on waiting and have just finished compiling kdelibs3. Now time for kdebase3... Charles -- There are no threads in a.b.p.erotica, so there's no gain in using a threaded news reader. (Unknown source)
Gerrit Jan Eldering wrote:
Why no KDE 3.1.4. for SuSE.....???? Who tell's me.......
SuSE is under no obligation to provide newer KDE binaries. If it happens that it does, consider it a bonus and be thankful about it, don't take it for granted. Don't whine for binaries. You are free to compile your own. And it's nice to be thankful about the KDE sources as well, the KDE programmers and contributors are under no obligation to make those either. Many of them still do it voluntarily, without pay.
On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 17:25:08 +0300
Silviu Marin-Caea
SuSE is under no obligation to provide newer KDE binaries.
No they don't, except that 3.1.4 is also a *security* release.
If it happens that it does, consider it a bonus and be thankful about it, don't take it for granted. Don't whine for binaries.
No, I am not whining for binary- I can compile it myself. Like I said: (1) 3.1.4 is also a security release (and some major memory leak fixes), (2) All other major distros (including Redhat, which is not a KDE distro) already have binary available on kde.org since day one. This make SuSE looks really bad. Charles -- "Open Standards, Open Documents, and Open Source" -- Scott Bradner (Open Sources, 1999 O'Reilly and Associates)
* Silviu Marin-Caea (silviu@genesys.ro) [030923 07:26]:
Gerrit Jan Eldering wrote:
Why no KDE 3.1.4. for SuSE.....???? Who tell's me.......
SuSE is under no obligation to provide newer KDE binaries.
If it happens that it does, consider it a bonus and be thankful about it, don't take it for granted. Don't whine for binaries.
You are free to compile your own. And it's nice to be thankful about the KDE sources as well, the KDE programmers and contributors are under no obligation to make those either. Many of them still do it voluntarily, without pay.
Yes. I agree with you to a point but as Charles said ..it's a security update. Your probably not aware that SuSE employee's KDE developers and maintainers for these packages. The reason we haven't seen them yet is because it appears that SuSE as a whole are super busy with the final stages of 9.0 and when that calms down I'm positive that we shall see 3.1.4 packages for 8.2, 8.1 ..etc. In fact the KDE maintainer told me that there will be packages very soon. :) -- Ben Rosenberg ---===---===---===--- mailto:ben@whack.org ----- If two men agree on everything, you can be sure that only one of them is doing the thinking.
SuSE is under every obligation to provide the newest binaries for any package it provides, especially when these updates are security updates. As of the time of sending this, SuSE professional costs $79.95 when bought online through the web page, and that 80 dollars will buy you an alternative to windows which is far more stable, and secure and provides all the advantadges of linux with the ease of use of windows (relative to more complex linux distributions, obviously some limitations need to be taken into account. Linux isn't easy no matter what you do to cover it up). In other words, SuSE linux is a commercial distribution which is very different than what goes on in the open source world. The open source world is filled with programmers who decided to be nice and write lots of programs for the rest of the world through a self serving system cleverly disguised as altruism. The commercial world is filled with large cooperations delivering services to the teeming masses too lazy to do lots of work on their own, and as a result has a commitment to that service for the commitment of money laid down by the consumer. Of course not everyone has paid for SuSE (though I believe if you've benefited significantly, you should pay for something) but nevertheless, a "bonus" in the SuSE world is including a plush chameleon doll with every box of SuSE pro. SuSE belongs in the real world, not in some open source fantasy. -----Original Message----- From: Silviu Marin-Caea [mailto:silviu@genesys.ro] Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2003 10.25 To: SuSE Mailing List Subject: Re: [SLE] KDE 3.1.4 ? Gerrit Jan Eldering wrote:
Why no KDE 3.1.4. for SuSE.....????
Who tell's me.......
SuSE is under no obligation to provide newer KDE binaries. If it happens that it does, consider it a bonus and be thankful about it, don't take it for granted. Don't whine for binaries. You are free to compile your own. And it's nice to be thankful about the KDE sources as well, the KDE programmers and contributors are under no obligation to make those either. Many of them still do it voluntarily, without pay. -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
In a previous message, "Yaakov Nemoy"
SuSE is under every obligation to provide the newest binaries for any package it provides, especially when these updates are security updates. As of the time of sending this, SuSE professional costs $79.95 when bought online through the web page, and that 80 dollars will buy you an alternative to windows[snip]
Not really. Your $80 buys you the distro on the discs - which has all the features you mention. There is no guarantee of updates of any sort, just like any other software that you might buy. Any updates or upgrades that the vendor supplies are in addition to what you paid for. SuSE has a policy of supplying patched versions of the distro to cover security flaws, but doesn't supply major new versions through YOU. For that, you have to buy the major versions (or install by ftp) or obtain the upgrades yourself. And this is perfectly fair, ISTM.
a "bonus" in the SuSE world is including a plush chameleon doll with every box of SuSE pro.
I never got a doll...
SuSE belongs in the real world, not in some open source fantasy.
Exactly - SuSE don't supply something for nothing, nor do they give away free updates willy nilly, because they live in the real commercial world. They have to make money off their products. John -- John Pettigrew Headstrong Games john@headstrong-games.co.uk Fun : Strategy : Price http://www.headstrong-games.co.uk/ Board games that won't break the bank
* John Pettigrew (john@xl-cambridge.com) [030923 09:53]:
SuSE has a policy of supplying patched versions of the distro to cover security flaws, but doesn't supply major new versions through YOU. For that, you have to buy the major versions (or install by ftp) or obtain the upgrades yourself. And this is perfectly fair, ISTM.
KDE 3.1.4 isn't just a feature release but a bug fix release. This arguement could be had if they didn't make 8.2 pkgs of KDE 3.2 but since 3.1.4 is a security fix mostly then this arguement doesn't hold water. I don't think that a KDM security fix is any less important then any other security fix since KDM is on by default. -- Ben Rosenberg ---===---===---===--- mailto:ben@whack.org ----- If two men agree on everything, you can be sure that only one of them is doing the thinking.
Op dinsdag 23 september 2003 18:57, schreef Ben Rosenberg:
* John Pettigrew (john@xl-cambridge.com) [030923 09:53]:
SuSE has a policy of supplying patched versions of the distro to cover security flaws, but doesn't supply major new versions through YOU. For that, you have to buy the major versions (or install by ftp) or obtain the upgrades yourself. And this is perfectly fair, ISTM.
KDE 3.1.4 isn't just a feature release but a bug fix release. This arguement could be had if they didn't make 8.2 pkgs of KDE 3.2 but since 3.1.4 is a security fix mostly then this arguement doesn't hold water. I don't think that a KDM security fix is any less important then any other security fix since KDM is on by default.
-- Ben Rosenberg ---===---===---===--- mailto:ben@whack.org ----- If two men agree on everything, you can be sure that only one of them is doing the thinking.
Just :) Thanks for all the reply. Haha -- GJ Eldering SuSELINUX 8.2 KDE 3.1.3 k_athlon 2.4.20-100-athlon
On Tue, 2003-09-23 at 12:06, Yaakov Nemoy wrote:
SuSE is under every obligation to provide the newest binaries for any package it provides, especially when these updates are security updates.
Unless SuSE has changed their policy the only support they provide is 90 days of install support. They are NOT under any obligation to provide any updates to any package. They do so as a courtesy to their customers. You perhaps may want to read the EULA that comes with the boxed set.
As of the time of sending this, SuSE professional costs $79.95 when bought online through the web page, and that 80 dollars will buy you an alternative to windows which is far more stable, and secure and provides all the advantadges of linux with the ease of use of windows (relative to more complex linux distributions, obviously some limitations need to be taken into account. Linux isn't easy no matter what you do to cover it up). In other words, SuSE linux is a commercial distribution which is very different than what goes on in the open source world. The open source world is filled with programmers who decided to be nice and write lots of programs for the rest of the world through a self serving system cleverly disguised as altruism. The commercial world is filled with large cooperations delivering services to the teeming masses too lazy to do lots of work on their own, and as a result has a commitment to that service for the commitment of money laid down by the consumer. Of course not everyone has paid for SuSE (though I believe if you've benefited significantly, you should pay for something) but nevertheless,
And if you have NOT paid for SuSE, a friend gave you a copy, you are not intitled to any support what so ever.
a "bonus" in the SuSE world is including a plush chameleon doll with every box of SuSE pro. SuSE belongs in the real world, not in some open source fantasy.
-- Ken Schneider unix user since 1989 linux user since 1994 SuSE user since 1998
* Ken Schneider (kschneider@rtsx.com) [030923 09:48]:
On Tue, 2003-09-23 at 12:06, Yaakov Nemoy wrote:
SuSE is under every obligation to provide the newest binaries for any package it provides, especially when these updates are security updates.
Unless SuSE has changed their policy the only support they provide is 90 days of install support. They are NOT under any obligation to provide any updates to any package. They do so as a courtesy to their customers. You perhaps may want to read the EULA that comes with the boxed set.
Your correct that they do not have to do so. But when it's a security risk then in good faith they should act quickly. One of the security risks with KDE if memory serves me is with KDM (GUI Login) and if SuSE is going to have this enabled by default which they do..then they really should update it. Along with the fact that a lot of people upgraded to 3.1.3 which was missing quite a few of the useful bits of the kdemultimedia software which I was told would be re-added in 3.1.4..these things are in need of a fix and I understand that 9.0 is getting the final polishing but since 9.0 isn't out and 8.2 (and below) are in use in the world...a fix would be called for. My question to you would be if Microsoft said " well, were not going to put out hot-fixes for XP's issues because were working on Longhorn." would you buy that reasoning? I think not. You wouldn't be defending Sun, IBM or anyone else that hadn't fixed a security hole. Don't get me wrong I've been a SuSE user for quite sometime but defending the lack of a security fix isn't going to work. -- Ben Rosenberg ---===---===---===--- mailto:ben@whack.org ----- If two men agree on everything, you can be sure that only one of them is doing the thinking.
On Tuesday 23 September 2003 12:06 pm, Yaakov Nemoy wrote:
SuSE is under every obligation to provide the newest binaries for any package it provides, especially when these updates are security updates. As of the time of sending this, SuSE professional costs $79.95 when bought online through the web page, and that 80 dollars will buy you an alternative to windows which is far more stable, and secure and provides all the advantadges of linux with the ease of use of windows (relative to more complex linux distributions, obviously some limitations need to be taken into account. Linux isn't easy no matter what you do to cover it up). In other words, SuSE linux is a commercial distribution which is very different than what goes on in the open source world. The open source world is filled with programmers who decided to be nice and write lots of programs for the rest of the world through a self serving system cleverly disguised as altruism. The commercial world is filled with large cooperations delivering services to the teeming masses too lazy to do lots of work on their own, and as a result has a commitment to that service for the commitment of money laid down by the consumer. Of course not everyone has paid for SuSE (though I believe if you've benefited significantly, you should pay for something) but nevertheless, a "bonus" in the SuSE world is including a plush chameleon doll with every box of SuSE pro. SuSE belongs in the real world, not in some open source fantasy.
You expect one hellava lot for your $80. I think SuSE is doing just fine and they do one hellava job. 'nuff said.
-----Original Message----- From: Silviu Marin-Caea [mailto:silviu@genesys.ro] Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2003 10.25 To: SuSE Mailing List Subject: Re: [SLE] KDE 3.1.4 ?
Gerrit Jan Eldering wrote:
Why no KDE 3.1.4. for SuSE.....????
Who tell's me.......
SuSE is under no obligation to provide newer KDE binaries.
If it happens that it does, consider it a bonus and be thankful about
it, don't take it for granted. Don't whine for binaries.
You are free to compile your own. And it's nice to be thankful about
the KDE sources as well, the KDE programmers and contributors are under
no obligation to make those either. Many of them still do it
voluntarily, without pay.
--
Check the headers for your unsubscription address
For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com
Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com
Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
-- +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ + Bruce S. Marshall bmarsh@bmarsh.com Bellaire, MI 09/23/03 12:49 + +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ "Anarchy is against the law."
No, when I pay 800 dollars for microsoft windows XP cum office XP, I expect a 'hellava' lot from microsoft. Considering that I didn't pay for SuSE, I don't expect them to do anything for me per se, though I have certain expectations from any company. To be honest, I'm overall impressed with SuSE as it is, and I find that comendable. I was really more upset that one person started infering that the looser open source standards apply to the commercial world. -----Original Message----- You expect one hellava lot for your $80. I think SuSE is doing just fine and they do one hellava job. 'nuff said.
-----Original Message-----
From: Silviu Marin-Caea [mailto:silviu@genesys.ro]
Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2003 10.25
To: SuSE Mailing List
Subject: Re: [SLE] KDE 3.1.4 ?
Gerrit Jan Eldering wrote:
Why no KDE 3.1.4. for SuSE.....????
Who tell's me.......
SuSE is under no obligation to provide newer KDE binaries.
If it happens that it does, consider it a bonus and be thankful about
it, don't take it for granted. Don't whine for binaries.
You are free to compile your own. And it's nice to be thankful about
the KDE sources as well, the KDE programmers and contributors are
under
no obligation to make those either. Many of them still do it
voluntarily, without pay.
--
Check the headers for your unsubscription address
For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com
Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com
Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
-- +----------------------------------------------------------------------- -----+ + Bruce S. Marshall bmarsh@bmarsh.com Bellaire, MI 09/23/03 12:49 + +----------------------------------------------------------------------- -----+ "Anarchy is against the law." -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
* Yaakov Nemoy (ynemoy@yahoo.com) [030923 16:35]:
No, when I pay 800 dollars for microsoft windows XP cum office XP, I expect a 'hellava' lot from microsoft. Considering that I didn't pay for SuSE, I don't expect them to do anything for me per se, though I have certain expectations from any company. To be honest, I'm overall impressed with SuSE as it is, and I find that comendable. I was really more upset that one person started infering that the looser open source standards apply to the commercial world.
-----Original Message----- You expect one hellava lot for your $80. I think SuSE is doing just fine
and they do one hellava job.
/ double spaced unneed quote snipped / Well, I didn't say they don't do a hell of a job and I'll be honest with you. I don't pay for SuSE either..fact is I just drive over to Oakland an pick up a box because I'm special or something..umm..yeah..right. It's not that I haven't paid for it. Someone jacked my free copy at work and I went out to a local store here and bought another copy..but then again that's not the point either. Anyway. You miss the point entirely about the difference between whining about feature releases and security fixes. I do have one question. Would I be out of line to expect Honda to recall my Civic if it had an issue? I mean I didn't pay as much for it as I would a BMW but I would still expect a problem with the Honda fixed. I guess I'm just not getting my point across. I'll abstain from this thread from now on I suppose. -- Ben Rosenberg ---===---===---===--- mailto:ben@whack.org ----- If two men agree on everything, you can be sure that only one of them is doing the thinking.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 23 September 2003 11:06, Yaakov Nemoy wrote: <snip>
Of course not everyone has paid for SuSE (though I believe if you've benefited significantly, you should pay for something) but nevertheless, a "bonus" in the SuSE world is including a plush chameleon doll with every box of SuSE pro. SuSE belongs in the real world, not in some open source fantasy. <snip>
Hey ------ I never got a Plush Chameleon!!!!!!!!!!????????? What's up with that? And i've bought retail copies of every professional version since 7.0. Regardless, they[SuSE] do a great job. Quit whining about triviality. Feel free to compile the binaries and release them to "our" community for everyones benefit. The Open Source contributions aren't just for a couple of would-be geeks stuck in a basement somewhere. It just as well, can be made by you/me providing a little bit of our time to better the community and the product we believe in. - -- Thomas Jones Linux-Howtos Network Administrator OpenGPG Key: 0x6A3DF6E9 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2-rc1-SuSE (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/cR6XQT2komo99ukRApQQAKCIXC0qcu5IniY271kCwyIhIaZ+HQCg9RIO F255C4fP9iWuKew1agxKgOs= =rAYq -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On Tuesday 23 September 2003 10:25, Silviu Marin-Caea wrote:
Gerrit Jan Eldering wrote:
Why no KDE 3.1.4. for SuSE.....???? Who tell's me.......
SuSE is under no obligation to provide newer KDE binaries.
Well, we are under no obligation: [use / promote / recomended / and so on ] SuSE for ever. Jul, [since SuSE 5.0]
participants (10)
-
Ben Rosenberg -
Bruce Marshall -
Charles Philip Chan -
Gerrit Jan Eldering -
John Pettigrew -
Julo -
Ken Schneider -
Silviu Marin-Caea -
Thomas Jones -
Yaakov Nemoy