James Mohr said: This is not Windows, here. This is Linux, or have you forgotten? It is as close to a democracy as any OS will likely get. If the majority thinks it should be one way or other, then that way is a close to "right" as you are going to get.
Sigh. Sorry, but no. The majority doesn't run two of the highest traffic mailinglists in the world (yes, it's true). Nor do they have to get out of bed at 4am to plonk some jackass who thinks it's a good idea to misconfigure a mail gateway that generates hundreds of double bounces per minute or deal with people who complain that either a) transfers from ftp are too slow b) turnaround time on the mailinglists is too long and don't understand that the two are related. No, anything that reduces the amount of traffic on SLE or SL is probably a good thing.
What Chip Rosenthal is doing in that article is stating an *opinion*.
Yes, and we agree with it. I only pointed it out b/c he has given a much more articulate discussion of it than I can.
On the other hand, based on a lot of discussion on this list, most people feel that it is **wrong** to quote someone without mentioning who is being quoted. Oh, wait a minute! Isn't that what you just did? Just what are the Mailing-List Police going to say about that?
My response was directed at the list in general, not to the original post. Whoever it was, I am very sorry. Can this please die for another 6 months now? -- -ckm
* Corvin Russell (corvinr@sympatico.ca) [010927 18:49]: ->On Thu, Sep 27, 2001 at 03:12:54PM -0700, Christopher Mahmood wrote: ->> ->> Can this please die for another 6 months now? ->> -> ->You're oppressing me! Hey everyone, look, he's oppressing me! I'm ->being oppressed! -> Damn Candians..my wife says the same thing. *heh* -- Ben Rosenberg mailto:ben@whack.org ----- "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin
Bloody peasants! However, the comment did make me think that an anacho-syndicalist commune might be the way to go. We each take turns as a sort of executive officer for a week. However, all decisions of that executive must be ratified by a special bi-weekly meeting of the list members. Just remember that strange women lying in ponds is no basis for a system of government, or running a mailing list. Listen, if I went around saying I was list moderator simply because some moistened bint had lobbed a semitar at me, they'd put me away. Lemmon Curry? jimmo Corvin Russell wrote:
On Thu, Sep 27, 2001 at 03:12:54PM -0700, Christopher Mahmood wrote:
Can this please die for another 6 months now?
You're oppressing me! Hey everyone, look, he's oppressing me! I'm being oppressed!
;)
Corvin
At 06:56 28/09/01 +0200, James Mohr wrote:
Bloody peasants!
However, the comment did make me think that an anacho-syndicalist commune might be the way to go. We each take turns as a sort of executive officer for a week. However, all decisions of that executive must be ratified by a special bi-weekly meeting of the list members.
Just remember that strange women lying in ponds is no basis for a system of government, or running a mailing list. Listen, if I went around saying I was list moderator simply because some moistened bint had lobbed a semitar at me, they'd put me away.
Lemmon Curry?
Oh boy - And I thought *Australians* were warped...:-) Come and see the violence inherent in the system !!!
Jon Biddell wrote:
At 06:56 28/09/01 +0200, James Mohr wrote:
Oh boy - And I thought *Australians* were warped...:-)
Come and see the violence inherent in the system !!!
You(?) are! Any country that produces Paul Hogan and Footy *has* to be warped. But I guess you really have to have seen the Paul Hogan Show to understand just how warped they are. ;-) Go Hawthorne Hawks! Regards, jimmo
At 18:13 28/09/01 +0200, James Mohr wrote:
Jon Biddell wrote:
At 06:56 28/09/01 +0200, James Mohr wrote: Oh boy - And I thought *Australians* were warped...:-) Come and see the violence inherent in the system !!!
You(?) are! Any country that produces Paul Hogan and Footy *has* to be warped. But I guess you really have to have seen the Paul Hogan Show to understand just how warped they are. ;-)
True, VERY true.....:-)
Go Hawthorne Hawks!
Awww, and you were doing so well too...:-( COLLINGWOOD !!!
Christopher Mahmood wrote:
James Mohr said: This is not Windows, here. This is Linux, or have you forgotten? It is as close to a democracy as any OS will likely get. If the majority thinks it should be one way or other, then that way is a close to "right" as you are going to get.
Sigh. Sorry, but no. The majority doesn't run two of the highest traffic mailinglists in the world (yes, it's true). Nor do they have to get out of bed at 4am to plonk some jackass who thinks it's a good idea to misconfigure a mail gateway that generates hundreds of double bounces per minute or deal with people who complain that either
Tja. Sorry, but yes. That's is, in fact, how a democracy works. If the majority thinks a certain way that is, in fact, as close to "right" as you will get. Maybe it lies in the fact *your* email client is configured wrong and that two messages got mixed together. I never said that SuSE had to listen to what it's customer's want. Just look at Microsoft. They listen to their own internal marketing. Why should SuSE have to listen to customers, if Microsoft doesn't? If the majority said they wanted the list the other way, then that is as close to "right" as you are going to get, even if SuSE has the power to force it's will on the list. It is still not "right". It *is* the choice of SuSE to make, because they you are running the list. However, it does not make it right, even if I do support the decision. On the other hand, when businesses don't listen to customers and make obnoxious comments to their customers the customers (and therefore the money) go elsewhere. You are free to run your list the way you chose. Yes, it is your list. Those subscribers who do not like that policy or no longer like SuSE will simply take their money elsewhere. Why is that so hard to understand?
On the other hand, based on a lot of discussion on this list, most people feel that it is **wrong** to quote someone without mentioning who is being quoted. Oh, wait a minute! Isn't that what you just did? Just what are the Mailing-List Police going to say about that?
My response was directed at the list in general, not to the original post. Whoever it was, I am very sorry.
Can this please die for another 6 months now?
Regardless of to whom the comment was directed, the *right* way to do it is to mention the original sender. That's called "netiquette". When you don't do it, it is *wrong*. Not just to the original poster, but to *all* of the people on the list. Or is this another attempt to force your will on your loyal customers? If not, then please shut up and let people blow of some steam. Regards, jimmo
On Fri, Sep 28, 2001 at 07:12:50AM +0200, James Mohr wrote:
Christopher Mahmood wrote:
James Mohr said: This is not Windows, here. This is Linux, or have you forgotten? It is as close to a democracy as any OS will likely get. If the majority thinks it should be one way or other, then that way is a close to "right" as you are going to get.
Sigh. Sorry, but no. The majority doesn't run two of the highest traffic mailinglists in the world (yes, it's true). Nor do they have to get out of bed at 4am to plonk some jackass who thinks it's a good idea to misconfigure a mail gateway that generates hundreds of double bounces per minute or deal with people who complain that either
Tja. Sorry, but yes. That's is, in fact, how a democracy works. If the majority thinks a certain way that is, in fact, as close to "right" as you will get. Maybe it lies in the fact *your* email client is configured wrong and that two messages got mixed together. I never said that SuSE had to listen to what it's customer's want. Just look at Microsoft. They listen to their own internal marketing. Why should SuSE have to listen to customers, if Microsoft doesn't?
OK, I kept silence but now I will voice my opinion. Who counted majority voices?
If the majority said they wanted the list the other way, then that is as close to "right" as you are going to get, even if SuSE has the power to force it's will on the list. It is still not "right". It *is* the choice of SuSE to make, because they you are running the list. However, it does not make it right, even if I do support the decision.
On the other hand, when businesses don't listen to customers and make obnoxious comments to their customers the customers (and therefore the money) go elsewhere. You are free to run your list the way you chose. Yes, it is your list. Those subscribers who do not like that policy or no longer like SuSE will simply take their money elsewhere. Why is that so hard to understand?
I am a paying customer. I bought 6.3, 6.4, 7.0, 7.1. I am satisfied completely with the present setup of the list. I can configure mutt and can press "L" to reply to the list when I want my reply to go to the list and not to the author. Do I have a right to influence SuSE decisions about this list?
On the other hand, based on a lot of discussion on this list, most people feel that it is **wrong** to quote someone without mentioning who is being quoted. Oh, wait a minute! Isn't that what you just did? Just what are the Mailing-List Police going to say about that?
My response was directed at the list in general, not to the original post. Whoever it was, I am very sorry.
Can this please die for another 6 months now?
Regardless of to whom the comment was directed, the *right* way to do it is to mention the original sender. That's called "netiquette". When you don't do it, it is *wrong*. Not just to the original poster, but to *all* of the people on the list. Or is this another attempt to force your will on your loyal customers? If not, then please shut up and let people blow of some steam.
... if blowing of steam could improve software quality a bit...
Regards,
jimmo
Regards, -Kastus
For those of you using Kmail: Right-click on the message and select: Create Filter -> Filter on Subject... Then all will be well again. If people could use their flame energy to create applications, Linux would be *done*. -- James Oakley Engineering - SolutionInc Ltd. joakley@solutioninc.com http://www.solutioninc.com
On Friday 28 September 2001 1:29 pm, James Oakley wrote:
For those of you using Kmail:
Right-click on the message and select:
Create Filter -> Filter on Subject...
I guess you're using KDE 2.2. This is not an option with 2.1.2. However, you
can set the filters using Settings->Filter Rules... and use set ReplyTo
(suse-linux-e@suse.com) for all messages filtered on [SLE].
M
--
Martin Webster
Konstantin (Kastus) Shchuka wrote:
On Fri, Sep 28, 2001 at 07:12:50AM +0200, James Mohr wrote:
Tja. Sorry, but yes. That's is, in fact, how a democracy works. If the majority thinks a certain way that is, in fact, as close to "right" as you will get. Maybe it lies in the fact *your* email client is configured wrong and that two messages got mixed together. I never said that SuSE had to listen to what it's customer's want. Just look at Microsoft. They listen to their own internal marketing. Why should SuSE have to listen to customers, if Microsoft doesn't?
OK, I kept silence but now I will voice my opinion. Who counted majority voices?
No one I know of when it comes to company controlled mailing lists. However, I am dealing with a major problem I found in another vendor's product and they are listening. Maybe not counting votes, but they are listening and definately not saying any side of the issue is "wrong."
I am a paying customer. I bought 6.3, 6.4, 7.0, 7.1.
I am satisfied completely with the present setup of the list.
I can configure mutt and can press "L" to reply to the list when I want my reply to go to the list and not to the author.
Do I have a right to influence SuSE decisions about this list?
Ask them! I think you do. However, based on a recent comment, maybe SuSE doesn't think you do.
On the other hand, based on a lot of discussion on this list, most people feel that it is **wrong** to quote someone without mentioning who is being quoted. Oh, wait a minute! Isn't that what you just did? Just what are the Mailing-List Police going to say about that?
.... if blowing of steam could improve software quality a bit...
Sure it does. Blowing off steam improves everything. If you have penned up anger, you cannot think clearly. Open forums like this are just as much a a good place to socialize as they are to get answers to questions. If you don't like a thread, don't read it. If something pisses you off, say so. That's the way things will get changed. Best Regards, jimmo
participants (9)
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Ben Rosenberg -
Christopher Mahmood -
Corvin Russell -
James Mohr -
James Oakley -
Jon Biddell -
jon＠fl.net.au
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Konstantin (Kastus) Shchuka -
Martin Webster