Can XP ICS support SuSe DHCP?

gchris＠bellsouth.net

27 Feb 2004 27 Feb '04

07:54

I am trying to install a SuSe 9.0 machine and access the net thru a WinXP machine using ICS (which supposedly supplies limited DHCP) The SuSe machine is not receiving its IP via DHCP. Can this configuration work or must I supply the SuSe machine with a static IP? I'm sure the hardware works because the SuSe machine dual boots W98SE which connects to the net with no problems.

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John Andersen

27 Feb 27 Feb

09:11

New subject: [SLE] Can XP ICS support SuSe DHCP?

On Thursday 26 February 2004 22:54, gchris@bellsouth.net wrote:

...

I am trying to install a SuSe 9.0 machine and access the net thru a WinXP machine using ICS (which supposedly supplies limited DHCP) The SuSe machine is not receiving its IP via DHCP. Can this configuration work or must I supply the SuSe machine with a static IP?

I'm sure the hardware works because the SuSe machine dual boots W98SE which connects to the net with no problems.

Connect the suse box directly to the net for a trial. Is the Xp box dial-up or cable/dsl? In any event, static should work too. How does your XP box get its IP? Of course, you know that this is the point where everybody will tell you you are doing this backward, and the SuSE box should be on the net, and the XP box behind it.... -- _____________________________________ John Andersen

alejo

10:08

New subject: [SLE] Can XP ICS support SuSe DHCP?

Sorry for my english also I am not an expert I have try to do with DHCP but the behaviour was extrange (sometimes work and sometimes not)(I have to start first the Linux machine otherwise net do not works but internet yes) What I have done and works fine (after read some microsoft pages showing that is not neccesary fixes IP´s): 1-First stop the firewall in both computers (later once you know it works you can connect again.) 2-windows PC with internet conection (I suppouse this is already done) -IP 192.168.0.1 -255.255.255.0 -mark Share internet rest in blank this is the configuraion that windows makes to you automaticaly by default. 3 Linux PC. -IP 192.168.0.x where (x=2, or 3 or ....) -255.255.255.0 -gateway 192.168.0.1 DNS (I have filled because I am in another net but I think is not necessary. if do not works I will give you) 3- Once you connect and know everything is ok you can connect firewall. I am able to configure rigth windows(zonealarm) firewall but I am still not able to configure Linux firewall and see windows net. regards Alejo ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Andersen" To: Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 10:11 AM Subject: Re: [SLE] Can XP ICS support SuSe DHCP?

...

On Thursday 26 February 2004 22:54, gchris@bellsouth.net wrote:

...
I am trying to install a SuSe 9.0 machine and access the net thru a WinXP machine using ICS (which supposedly supplies limited DHCP) The SuSe machine is not receiving its IP via DHCP. Can this configuration work or must I supply the SuSe machine with a static IP?

I'm sure the hardware works because the SuSe machine dual boots W98SE which connects to the net with no problems.

Connect the suse box directly to the net for a trial. Is the Xp box dial-up or cable/dsl?

In any event, static should work too. How does your XP box get its IP?

Of course, you know that this is the point where everybody will tell you you are doing this backward, and the SuSE box should be on the net, and the XP box behind it....

-- _____________________________________ John Andersen

-- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com

Malke Routh

12:35

New subject: [SLE] Can XP ICS support SuSe DHCP?

On Fri, 2004-02-27 at 02:08, alejo wrote:

...

Sorry for my english also I am not an expert

I have try to do with DHCP but the behaviour was extrange (sometimes work and sometimes not)(I have to start first the Linux machine otherwise net do not works but internet yes)

What I have done and works fine (after read some microsoft pages showing that is not neccesary fixes IP´s):

1-First stop the firewall in both computers (later once you know it works you can connect again.)

2-windows PC with internet conection (I suppouse this is already done) -IP 192.168.0.1 -255.255.255.0 -mark Share internet rest in blank

this is the configuraion that windows makes to you automaticaly by default.

3 Linux PC. -IP 192.168.0.x where (x=2, or 3 or ....) -255.255.255.0 -gateway 192.168.0.1 DNS (I have filled because I am in another net but I think is not necessary. if do not works I will give you)

3- Once you connect and know everything is ok you can connect firewall. I am able to configure rigth windows(zonealarm) firewall but I am still not able to configure Linux firewall and see windows net.

Hi, Alejo. This is the part where I tell you that Windows ICS sucks and is nasty even with just Windows boxen. This is the part where I tell you to get an inexpensive (<$50usd) router instead or put the Linux box as the gateway. ICS just isn't very good, even with an all-Windows situation. Good luck, Malke -- "I have a cunning plan..."

Paul W. Abrahams

20:49

New subject: [SLE] Can XP ICS support SuSe DHCP?

On Friday 27 February 2004 7:35 am, Malke Routh wrote:

...

...
Hi, Alejo. This is the part where I tell you that Windows ICS sucks and is nasty even with just Windows boxen. This is the part where I tell you to get an inexpensive (<$50usd) router instead or put the Linux box as the gateway. ICS just isn't very good, even with an all-Windows situation.

I'll second that. ICS requires a box with two ethernet cards, which in itself can be tricky to configure whether in Linux or Windows. Routers are the key to heaven these days no matter what OS you're running. Paul Abrahams

C Hamel

20:59

New subject: [SLE] Can XP ICS support SuSe DHCP?

On Friday 27 February 2004 14:49, Paul W. Abrahams wrote: <SNIP>

...

I'll second that. ICS requires a box with two ethernet cards, which in itself can be tricky to configure whether in Linux or Windows.

Routers are the key to heaven these days no matter what OS you're running.

Paul Abrahams

As the saying goes, "there's one in every crowd, and we have ours." On that note, I must say that I had a far easier time getting SuSE to talk to WindowsXP than I did SuSE to SuSE where ICS is concerned. I still have to get it working SuSE to SuSE. XP required using the wizard to set that up, and SuSE required putting the correct gateway in place w/IP Routing. End of story, as far as my boxes were concerned. -- ...CH SuSE Is All U Need Linux user# 313696 Linux box# 199365

gchris＠bellsouth.net

28 Feb 28 Feb

02:11

New subject: [SLE] Can XP ICS support SuSe DHCP?

C Hamel wrote:

...

On Friday 27 February 2004 14:49, Paul W. Abrahams wrote: <SNIP>

...
I'll second that. ICS requires a box with two ethernet cards, which in itself can be tricky to configure whether in Linux or Windows.

Routers are the key to heaven these days no matter what OS you're running.

Paul Abrahams

As the saying goes, "there's one in every crowd, and we have ours." On that note, I must say that I had a far easier time getting SuSE to talk to WindowsXP than I did SuSE to SuSE where ICS is concerned. I still have to get it working SuSE to SuSE. XP required using the wizard to set that up, and SuSE required putting the correct gateway in place w/IP Routing. End of story, as far as my boxes were concerned. -- ...CH SuSE Is All U Need Linux user# 313696 Linux box# 199365

You sound like just the person who could tell me what I'm doing wrong if you would be so kind! My SuSe 9.0 box comes up looking for an IP address and never gets one (confirmed by ifconfig). When booted as a Win98 machine it works fine. Could you tell me just what and where needs to be entered in Yast to wake this machine up? Thanks, Chris

Örn Hansen

02:17

New subject: [SLE] Can XP ICS support SuSe DHCP?

lördag 28 februari 2004 03:11 skrev gchris@bellsouth.net:

...

You sound like just the person who could tell me what I'm doing wrong if you would be so kind! My SuSe 9.0 box comes up looking for an IP address and never gets one (confirmed by ifconfig). When booted as a Win98 machine it works fine. Could you tell me just what and where needs to be entered in Yast to wake this machine up? Thanks, Chris

Why don't you use 'tcpdump' or something similar, to dump the data being sent/received via the interface to discover if any request (DHCP Discover) is being sent, and if so what is being replied? I can't afford to have any of my machines up 24/7 to function as dual homed gateways. So, I use a cheap D-LINK 804 broadband router ... yeah, I know I'm poor. But that's what us poor guys do, use cheap stuff that works.

Sid Boyce

02:20

New subject: [SLE] Can XP ICS support SuSe DHCP?

gchris@bellsouth.net wrote:

...

C Hamel wrote:

...
On Friday 27 February 2004 14:49, Paul W. Abrahams wrote: <SNIP>

...
I'll second that. ICS requires a box with two ethernet cards, which in itself can be tricky to configure whether in Linux or Windows.

Routers are the key to heaven these days no matter what OS you're running.

Paul Abrahams

As the saying goes, "there's one in every crowd, and we have ours." On that note, I must say that I had a far easier time getting SuSE to talk to WindowsXP than I did SuSE to SuSE where ICS is concerned. I still have to get it working SuSE to SuSE. XP required using the wizard to set that up, and SuSE required putting the correct gateway in place w/IP Routing. End of story, as far as my boxes were concerned. -- ...CH SuSE Is All U Need Linux user# 313696 Linux box# 199365

You sound like just the person who could tell me what I'm doing wrong if you would be so kind! My SuSe 9.0 box comes up looking for an IP address and never gets one (confirmed by ifconfig). When booted as a Win98 machine it works fine. Could you tell me just what and where needs to be entered in Yast to wake this machine up? Thanks, Chris

YaST --> Network Device --> Network Card is where you can setup DHCP or static IP address, netmask, gateway, DNS etc. Regards Sid. -- Sid Boyce .... Hamradio G3VBV and keen Flyer Linux Only Shop.

C Hamel

02:46

New subject: [SLE] Can XP ICS support SuSe DHCP?

On Friday 27 February 2004 20:11, gchris@bellsouth.net wrote: <SNIP>

...

You sound like just the person who could tell me what I'm doing wrong if you would be so kind! My SuSe 9.0 box comes up looking for an IP address and never gets one (confirmed by ifconfig). When booted as a Win98 machine it works fine. Could you tell me just what and where needs to be entered in Yast to wake this machine up? Thanks, Chris Looks as if Sid has you covered, for the most part! :-) Of course, you have to know what your other box's IPs are.

I, too, have never gotten an IP when booting. Someone observed that things are happening in the wrong order but at least, once up, my box gets hooked to the other box. I use static IP, myself, on both boxes. -- ...CH SuSE Is All U Need Linux user# 313696 Linux box# 199365

Sid Boyce

00:51

New subject: [SLE] Can XP ICS support SuSe DHCP?

Paul W. Abrahams wrote:

...

On Friday 27 February 2004 7:35 am, Malke Routh wrote:

...
Hi, Alejo. This is the part where I tell you that Windows ICS sucks and is nasty even with just Windows boxen. This is the part where I tell you to get an inexpensive (<$50usd) router instead or put the Linux box as the gateway. ICS just isn't very good, even with an all-Windows situation.

I'll second that. ICS requires a box with two ethernet cards, which in itself can be tricky to configure whether in Linux or Windows.

Routers are the key to heaven these days no matter what OS you're running.

Paul Abrahams

Tricky eh? Can't see how. I've tried a few Linux firewalls and for a few years now use "BBIagent" on a Cyrix M200+/16M, no HD and 2 NIC's box, it's nothing but simple to setup via a browser. Even the more involved Astaro Linux firewall is as simple as you can get and is favoured by corporates needing a comprehensive anti-SPAM, and anti-virus chroot jailed firewall , again using a browser, the usual IP addresses and ticking the options --- they all use 2 NIC's. Regards Sid. -- Sid Boyce .... Hamradio G3VBV and keen Flyer Linux Only Shop.

Dylan

01:42

New subject: [SLE] Can XP ICS support SuSe DHCP?

On Saturday 28 February 2004 00:51 am, Sid Boyce wrote:

...

Paul W. Abrahams wrote:

...
I'll second that. ICS requires a box with two ethernet cards, which in itself can be tricky to configure whether in Linux or Windows.

I've never managed to Windoze to happily cope with more than one set of network settings - 2NICs or NIC+dialup - and XP seems to be worse than 98SE.

...

...
Routers are the key to heaven these days no matter what OS you're running.

Paul Abrahams

Tricky eh? Can't see how.

Hear Hear! The only trouble I've ever encountered with dual homed (indeed tripple or more homed) hosts - and all the boxes on my LAN are at least dual homed - the only problems have been: A- a kernel module for an old isa card which couldn't cope with two identical cards (I figure it wasn't re-entrant, or fell over some other way) but ticks over happily with a diffent second NIC; and B - IRQ conflicts Both easy to deal with and hardly a network issue per se!

...

I've tried a few Linux firewalls and for a few years now use "BBIagent" on a Cyrix M200+/16M, no HD and 2 NIC's box, it's nothing but simple to setup via a browser.

Haven't come across that one - where is it from? Dylan -- "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin

Paul W. Abrahams

03:07

New subject: [SLE] Can XP ICS support SuSe DHCP?

On Friday 27 February 2004 8:42 pm, Dylan wrote:

...

The only trouble I've ever encountered with dual homed (indeed tripple or more homed) hosts - and all the boxes on my LAN are at least dual homed - the only problems have been:

A- a kernel module for an old isa card which couldn't cope with two identical cards (I figure it wasn't re-entrant, or fell over some other way) but ticks over happily with a diffent second NIC; and

B - IRQ conflicts

Both easy to deal with and hardly a network issue per se!

I've seen some agonized posts in the past here from people who were frustrated by trying to configure two identical ethernet cards in one box. It can be done, I suppose, but it's not necessarily trivial. The IRQ conflicts can be easy or hard to deal with (agreed, not a network issue but an issue nonetheless), depending on luck and knowledge. Paul Abrahams

Dylan

03:29

New subject: [SLE] Can XP ICS support SuSe DHCP?

On Saturday 28 February 2004 03:07 am, Paul W. Abrahams wrote:

...

On Friday 27 February 2004 8:42 pm, Dylan wrote:

...
The only trouble I've ever encountered with dual homed (indeed tripple or more homed) hosts - and all the boxes on my LAN are at least dual homed - the only problems have been:

A- a kernel module for an old isa card which couldn't cope with two identical cards (I figure it wasn't re-entrant, or fell over some other way) but ticks over happily with a diffent second NIC; and

B - IRQ conflicts

Both easy to deal with and hardly a network issue per se!

I've seen some agonized posts in the past here from people who were frustrated by trying to configure two identical ethernet cards in one box. It can be done, I suppose, but it's not necessarily trivial.

Indeed, but I've not hit an issue with PCI cards, and the ISA ones are now kept as emergency spares... Dylan -- "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin

The Purple Tiger

11:04

New subject: [SLE] Can XP ICS support SuSe DHCP?

...

...
I've tried a few Linux firewalls and for a few years now use "BBIagent" on a Cyrix M200+/16M, no HD and 2 NIC's box, it's nothing but simple to setup via a browser. Haven't come across that one - where is it from? bbiagent.net They have a java bootdisk creator which is funky. I use it for my gateway/firewall machine and thing it is superb :) By the way, in case you do download it and skim the docs, the initial

On Saturday 28 February 2004 01:42, Dylan wrote: password is BBIagent if I recall correctly :)

Sid Boyce

15:13

New subject: [SLE] Can XP ICS support SuSe DHCP?

The Purple Tiger wrote:

...

On Saturday 28 February 2004 01:42, Dylan wrote:

...
...
I've tried a few Linux firewalls and for a few years now use "BBIagent" on a Cyrix M200+/16M, no HD and 2 NIC's box, it's nothing but simple to setup via a browser.

Haven't come across that one - where is it from?

bbiagent.net They have a java bootdisk creator which is funky. I use it for my gateway/firewall machine and thing it is superb :) By the way, in case you do download it and skim the docs, the initial password is BBIagent if I recall correctly :)

That password is correct, at first, I tried root, admin ......., then as a wild guess I tried BBIagent, there is a principle that says - when all else fails, consult the manual. It was months before I read the manual, when I didn't need it.. I may one day invest in their CD download so I can store my setup to save me the 5 minutes or so I need to do port settings for hamradio VOIP, gnomemeeting, netmeeting, ssh, gnutella and VPN. Regards Sid. -- Sid Boyce .... Hamradio G3VBV and keen Flyer Linux Only Shop.

gchris＠bellsouth.net

01:04

New subject: [SLE] Can XP ICS support SuSe DHCP?

"Paul W. Abrahams" wrote:

...

On Friday 27 February 2004 7:35 am, Malke Routh wrote:

...
...
Hi, Alejo. This is the part where I tell you that Windows ICS sucks and is nasty even with just Windows boxen. This is the part where I tell you to get an inexpensive (<$50usd) router instead or put the Linux box as the gateway. ICS just isn't very good, even with an all-Windows situation.

I'll second that. ICS requires a box with two ethernet cards, which in itself can be tricky to configure whether in Linux or Windows.

Routers are the key to heaven these days no matter what OS you're running.

Paul Abrahams

Paul, I originally posted the question and I'm here to tell you that XP ICS has faultlessly delivered internet access to five other Windows boxes for over a year. With Windows, adding another box is as simple as giving it the gateway address 192.168.0.1 period. If Linux desktops are going to replace Windows desktops they need to be just as easy to configure, and my goal is to find out how to do that correctly. BTW, XP ICS can use two NICs or one NIC and a dialup modem or one NIC and a USB connection to a cable/DSL modem. Now tell me why I need a $50 router to fix something that isn't broken? ;) Chris

Örn Hansen

01:16

New subject: [SLE] Can XP ICS support SuSe DHCP?

lördag 28 februari 2004 02:04 skrev gchris@bellsouth.net:

...

BTW, XP ICS can use two NICs or one NIC and a dialup modem or one NIC and a USB connection to a cable/DSL modem. Now tell me why I need a $50 router to fix something that isn't broken? ;) Chris

A router is a cheap box, that doesn't draw much electricity and is quite stable. It's a cheap, but relyable solution. Your problem doesn't have to be, because MS has made it's own proprietary DHCP solution which isn't interoperaple with standard DHCP clients ... but the router thing, is a good solution none the less and is guaranteed to work.

gchris＠bellsouth.net

02:56

New subject: [SLE] Can XP ICS support SuSe DHCP?

Örn Hansen wrote:

...

lördag 28 februari 2004 02:04 skrev gchris@bellsouth.net:

...
BTW, XP ICS can use two NICs or one NIC and a dialup modem or one NIC and a USB connection to a cable/DSL modem. Now tell me why I need a $50 router to fix something that isn't broken? ;) Chris

A router is a cheap box, that doesn't draw much electricity and is quite stable. It's a cheap, but relyable solution. Your problem doesn't have to be, because MS has made it's own proprietary DHCP solution which isn't interoperaple with standard DHCP clients ... but the router thing, is a good solution none the less and is guaranteed to work.

You are absolutely correct from an engineering point of view. If this network was starting from scratch your approach is certainly the correct one. Unfortunately, this is a working, existing network where Linux is trying to become a player. The network works to M$ defined standards (which admittedly are proprietary). The question is, can Linux work in this environment or must the network be redesigned to accommodate one Linux box? My thinking is that if Linux expects to take desktop business away from M$ it had better be able to be a "drop in" replacement. I fully agree that a dedicated router is a far more reliable solution than anything based on a PC, whether it is running Linux or Windows. But the first question to be answered is "Will a Linux box work here?", not "How should the network be designed?". Regards, Chris

Paul W. Abrahams

03:09

New subject: [SLE] Can XP ICS support SuSe DHCP?

On Friday 27 February 2004 9:56 pm, gchris@bellsouth.net wrote:

...

Örn Hansen wrote:

...
A router is a cheap box, that doesn't draw much electricity and is quite stable. It's a cheap, but relyable solution. Your problem doesn't have to be, because MS has made it's own proprietary DHCP solution which isn't interoperaple with standard DHCP clients ... but the router thing, is a good solution none the less and is guaranteed to work.

You are absolutely correct from an engineering point of view. If this network was starting from scratch your approach is certainly the correct one. Unfortunately, this is a working, existing network where Linux is trying to become a player. The network works to M$ defined standards (which admittedly are proprietary). The question is, can Linux work in this environment or must the network be redesigned to accommodate one Linux box? My thinking is that if Linux expects to take desktop business away from M$ it had better be able to be a "drop in" replacement.

I fully agree that a dedicated router is a far more reliable solution than anything based on a PC, whether it is running Linux or Windows. But the first question to be answered is "Will a Linux box work here?", not "How should the network be designed?".

Seems that the choice between a dedicated $50 router box and a computer that provides an ICS-style interface depends on the context. Paul Abrahams

gchris＠bellsouth.net

03:30

New subject: [SLE] Can XP ICS support SuSe DHCP?

"Paul W. Abrahams" wrote:

...

On Friday 27 February 2004 9:56 pm, gchris@bellsouth.net wrote:

...
Örn Hansen wrote:

...
A router is a cheap box, that doesn't draw much electricity and is quite stable. It's a cheap, but relyable solution. Your problem doesn't have to be, because MS has made it's own proprietary DHCP solution which isn't interoperaple with standard DHCP clients ... but the router thing, is a good solution none the less and is guaranteed to work.

You are absolutely correct from an engineering point of view. If this network was starting from scratch your approach is certainly the correct one. Unfortunately, this is a working, existing network where Linux is trying to become a player. The network works to M$ defined standards (which admittedly are proprietary). The question is, can Linux work in this environment or must the network be redesigned to accommodate one Linux box? My thinking is that if Linux expects to take desktop business away from M$ it had better be able to be a "drop in" replacement.

I fully agree that a dedicated router is a far more reliable solution than anything based on a PC, whether it is running Linux or Windows. But the first question to be answered is "Will a Linux box work here?", not "How should the network be designed?".

Seems that the choice between a dedicated $50 router box and a computer that provides an ICS-style interface depends on the context.

Paul Abrahams

Well put Paul and the context here is that we have an ICS box and no router, so can the Linux box co-exist with ICS using DHCP or do I have to take a step backward and configure it manually. From the looks of my inbox, I know this is not the best or most popular approach but I'm still hopeful that a simple configuration screwup on my part is responsible for making an easy task difficult. Chris

Paul W. Abrahams

19:59

New subject: [SLE] Can XP ICS support SuSe DHCP?

On Friday 27 February 2004 10:30 pm, gchris@bellsouth.net wrote:

...

...
The context here is that we have an ICS box and no router, so can the Linux box co-exist with ICS using DHCP or do I have to take a step backward and configure it manually. From the looks of my inbox, I know this is not the best or most popular approach but I'm still hopeful that a simple configuration screwup on my part is responsible for making an easy task difficult.

As I understand it, ICS designates one box as the server and assigner of DHCP addresses (namely, the one you install it on). Thereafter it provides an IP address to any box, Win or Linux, that requests one using the DHCP protocols. So in principle you should just be able to specify that the Linux box is using DHCP and all the rest will happen in due course. Paul Abrahams

gchris＠bellsouth.net

29 Feb 29 Feb

08:26

New subject: [SLE] Can XP ICS support SuSe DHCP?

"Paul W. Abrahams" wrote:

...

On Friday 27 February 2004 10:30 pm, gchris@bellsouth.net wrote:

...
...
The context here is that we have an ICS box and no router, so can the Linux box co-exist with ICS using DHCP or do I have to take a step backward and configure it manually. From the looks of my inbox, I know this is not the best or most popular approach but I'm still hopeful that a simple configuration screwup on my part is responsible for making an easy task difficult.

As I understand it, ICS designates one box as the server and assigner of DHCP addresses (namely, the one you install it on). Thereafter it provides an IP address to any box, Win or Linux, that requests one using the DHCP protocols. So in principle you should just be able to specify that the Linux box is using DHCP and all the rest will happen in due course.

You've got it exactly Paul. In addition ICS provides DNS lookup and a gateway for all attached boxes at 192.168.0.1. This worked fine for me with Windows clients but the SuSe box never received its IP address. I finally configured the SuSe box manually with an IP of 192.168.0.5 (which was available), gateway and DNS of 192.168.0.1 and domain name mshome.net. After rebooting, that worked and the SuSe box had internet access through Windows ICS. I then turned DHCP back on, making no other changes, and internet connectivity continued!! I powered down and then rebooted and eth0 now acquired an IP address of 192.168.0.124 from Windows ICS and the machine continued to have full internet connectivity!!!! I am at a loss to explain why it is now working so I will simply put my tongue firmly in cheek and suggest that maybe SuSe Linux is a little shy about talking to complete strangers and simply ignores them until formal introductions are made. :) Regards, Chris

Örn Hansen

28 Feb 28 Feb

03:43

New subject: [SLE] Can XP ICS support SuSe DHCP?

lördag 28 februari 2004 03:56 skrev gchris@bellsouth.net:

...

You are absolutely correct from an engineering point of view. If this network was starting from scratch your approach is certainly the correct one. Unfortunately, this is a working, existing network where Linux is trying to become a player. The network works to M$ defined standards (which admittedly are proprietary). The question is, can Linux work in this environment or must the network be redesigned to accommodate one Linux box? My thinking is that if Linux expects to take desktop business away from M$ it had better be able to be a "drop in" replacement.

My personal point of view is, that Linux shouldn't try to be a drop-in replacement for Microsoft products at all. That's a no-win situation, in my point of view, and I would characterize it as a mouse chasing the cat situation.

...

I fully agree that a dedicated router is a far more reliable solution than anything based on a PC, whether it is running Linux or Windows. But the first question to be answered is "Will a Linux box work here?", not "How should the network be designed?". It can always be made to work, with static IP addresses... using the same network and netmask as the other network, only the IP address needs to be out of the ICS service range, and then specify the ICS computer as the gateway.

...

Regards, Chris

Kevin Krieser

01:31

New subject: [SLE] Can XP ICS support SuSe DHCP?

Other than for security, there isn't a real need. As long as you plan to keep your computer up and running all the time, and you don't mind outages for other computers when you reboot your Windows computer. (For quite some time, I used a Linux computer as my firewall device. However, actions like deciding to upgrade the distribution always took longer than I would expect. Windows, during a reinstall period, takes quite some time too, with all the reboots necessary to install my software and the critical updates). -----Original Message----- From: gchris@bellsouth.net [mailto:gchris@bellsouth.net] Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 7:05 PM To: Paul W. Abrahams Cc: suse-linux-e@suse.com Subject: Re: [SLE] Can XP ICS support SuSe DHCP? BTW, XP ICS can use two NICs or one NIC and a dialup modem or one NIC and a USB connection to a cable/DSL modem. Now tell me why I need a $50 router to fix something that isn't broken? ;) Chris

Sid Boyce

01:39

New subject: [SLE] Can XP ICS support SuSe DHCP?

gchris@bellsouth.net wrote:

...

"Paul W. Abrahams" wrote:

...
On Friday 27 February 2004 7:35 am, Malke Routh wrote:

...
Hi, Alejo. This is the part where I tell you that Windows ICS sucks and is nasty even with just Windows boxen. This is the part where I tell you to get an inexpensive (<$50usd) router instead or put the Linux box as the gateway. ICS just isn't very good, even with an all-Windows situation.

I'll second that. ICS requires a box with two ethernet cards, which in itself can be tricky to configure whether in Linux or Windows.

Routers are the key to heaven these days no matter what OS you're running.

Paul Abrahams

Paul, I originally posted the question and I'm here to tell you that XP ICS has faultlessly delivered internet access to five other Windows boxes for over a year. With Windows, adding another box is as simple as giving it the gateway address 192.168.0.1 period. If Linux desktops are going to replace Windows desktops they need to be just as easy to configure, and my goal is to find out how to do that correctly.

With Linux, adding another box is as simple as giving it the gateway address 192.168.0.1 period. Spot the difference? I have here 3 Linux boxes and two laptops permanently up, one laptop using Cisco VPN into work via LAN or dial-up, all hub connected to a Linux firewall box out to a cable modem and it was a no brainer to set up. I added one box a few weeks ago using Mandrake 10.0-beta2. I have a mix of Mandrake 9.2, SuSE 9.0 with 2.6.3-mm3 kernels and RedHat 9, plus I occasionally dig out and attach a spare box with a Knoppix CD. All are able to access the internet. On the desktop, I do FlightGear, watch TV, Gnomemeeting, hamradio VOIP, hamradio control using grig and a multitude of other stuff, also using Crossover office for Lotus Notes and IE5 for web sites that ban other browsers.

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BTW, XP ICS can use two NICs or one NIC and a dialup modem or one NIC and a USB connection to a cable/DSL modem. Now tell me why I need a $50 router to fix something that isn't broken? ;) Chris

I'd advise a router as it's a specialised item with limited objectives and hence simpler and less likely to succumb to attacks than a box that is loaded down with all sorts of applications that may subject it to compromise. The router can be locked down more securely. Regards Sid. -- Sid Boyce .... Hamradio G3VBV and keen Flyer Linux Only Shop.

Joe Morris (NTM)

02:30

New subject: [SLE] Can XP ICS support SuSe DHCP?

On 02/28/2004 09:04 AM, gchris@bellsouth.net wrote:

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Paul, I originally posted the question and I'm here to tell you that XP ICS has faultlessly delivered internet access to five other Windows boxes for over a year.

Haven't you ever rebooted that machine? Haven't you installed all the latest critical updates that require a reboot. Just for that reason alone, it has not faultlessly delivered internet access to your network. If you mean when it worked, this would be the same with Linux or a router. Which of the 3 would be more 'faultless'?

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With Windows, adding another box is as simple as giving it the gateway address 192.168.0.1 period.

IIRC, even this is not neccessary. By default it is configured for DHCP, which auto assigns the gateway, when it works correctly.

...

If Linux desktops are going to replace Windows desktops they need to be just as easy to configure, and my goal is to find out how to do that correctly.

A fair question. Since Windows ICS sets up a DHCP server, it should be the same for all clients, setup the internally networked NICs to DHCP (maybe not automatic in Linux but not hard either). I have had some weird problems at times with dhcpcd and have by course always replaced it with dhclient. I don't know if that is your problem, but I haven't had a problem with dhclient for years. In that case, it would be the same for the Linux client or the Windows client, with only 1 possible problem, a Microsoft closed source DHCP server which could actually be programmed to look only for a Windows client and reject all others. For that reason alone I would at least use the Linux DHCP server, but I would have put the higher security Linux box on the internet and made it the router over XP.

...

BTW, XP ICS can use two NICs or one NIC and a dialup modem or one NIC and a USB connection to a cable/DSL modem.

Correct.

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Now tell me why I need a $50 router to fix something that isn't broken? ;)

It isn't a need, just another possible fix for your problem. If you manually setup your usually dynamically assigned network settings (IP, netmask, DNS, gateway, etc.) in Linux it would work through Windows. -- Joe Morris New Tribes Mission Email Address: Joe_Morris@ntm.org Web Address: http://www.mydestiny.net/~joe_morris Registered Linux user 231871 God said, I AM that I AM. I say, by the grace of God, I am what I am.

Dylan

01:34

New subject: [SLE] Can XP ICS support SuSe DHCP?

On Friday 27 February 2004 20:49 pm, Paul W. Abrahams wrote:

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On Friday 27 February 2004 7:35 am, Malke Routh wrote:

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Hi, Alejo. This is the part where I tell you that Windows ICS sucks and is nasty even with just Windows boxen. This is the part where I tell you to get an inexpensive (<$50usd) router instead or put the Linux box as the gateway. ICS just isn't very good, even with an all-Windows situation.

I'll second that. ICS requires a box with two ethernet cards, which in itself can be tricky to configure whether in Linux or Windows.

Routers are the key to heaven these days no matter what OS you're running.

<rant> Which leaves every box open to the outside network, whereas using one as a gateway (OK, preferably a dedicated Linux box rather than a Windoze workstation) means you can concentrate and refine your security without the errors introduced by duplicating setups and the overhead of having to run security systems on users' machines. Not to mention the stress of getting your LAN services through each box's security without opening gaping holes. </rant> £0.02 Dylan -- "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin

Sid Boyce

01:41

New subject: [SLE] Can XP ICS support SuSe DHCP?

Dylan wrote:

...

On Friday 27 February 2004 20:49 pm, Paul W. Abrahams wrote:

...
On Friday 27 February 2004 7:35 am, Malke Routh wrote:

...
Hi, Alejo. This is the part where I tell you that Windows ICS sucks and is nasty even with just Windows boxen. This is the part where I tell you to get an inexpensive (<$50usd) router instead or put the Linux box as the gateway. ICS just isn't very good, even with an all-Windows situation.

I'll second that. ICS requires a box with two ethernet cards, which in itself can be tricky to configure whether in Linux or Windows.

Routers are the key to heaven these days no matter what OS you're running.

<rant> Which leaves every box open to the outside network, whereas using one as a gateway (OK, preferably a dedicated Linux box rather than a Windoze workstation) means you can concentrate and refine your security without the errors introduced by duplicating setups and the overhead of having to run security systems on users' machines. Not to mention the stress of getting your LAN services through each box's security without opening gaping holes. </rant>

£0.02 Dylan

The honest truth, not a rant. Regards Sid. -- Sid Boyce .... Hamradio G3VBV and keen Flyer Linux Only Shop.

Paul W. Abrahams

03:03

New subject: [SLE] Can XP ICS support SuSe DHCP?

On Friday 27 February 2004 8:34 pm, Dylan wrote:

...

...
Routers are the key to heaven these days no matter what OS you're running.

Which leaves every box open to the outside network, whereas using one as a gateway (OK, preferably a dedicated Linux box rather than a Windoze workstation) means you can concentrate and refine your security without the errors introduced by duplicating setups and the overhead of having to run security systems on users' machines. Not to mention the stress of getting your LAN services through each box's security without opening gaping holes.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I believe the router box serves as a very effective firewall by doing network address translation. Paul Abrahams

Dylan

03:27

New subject: [SLE] Can XP ICS support SuSe DHCP?

On Saturday 28 February 2004 03:03 am, Paul W. Abrahams wrote:

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On Friday 27 February 2004 8:34 pm, Dylan wrote:

...
...
Routers are the key to heaven these days no matter what OS you're running.

Which leaves every box open to the outside network, whereas using one as a gateway (OK, preferably a dedicated Linux box rather than a Windoze workstation) means you can concentrate and refine your security without the errors introduced by duplicating setups and the overhead of having to run security systems on users' machines. Not to mention the stress of getting your LAN services through each box's security without opening gaping holes.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I believe the router box serves as a very effective firewall by doing network address translation.

That's of absolutely no value as soon as a user opens that rogue attachment, or visits the dodgy website which plants a backdoor. And as soon as you decide to open a service you need to control it. If your LAN is hubbed/switched by the device which also connects to the wild network then anything like nfs, samba, nis, (the list is endless) becomes vulnerable and very difficult to lock down without complex configuration. Dylan

...

Paul Abrahams

-- "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin

John Andersen

07:02

New subject: [SLE] Can XP ICS support SuSe DHCP?

On Friday 27 February 2004 11:49, Paul W. Abrahams wrote:

...

On Friday 27 February 2004 7:35 am, Malke Routh wrote:

...
Hi, Alejo. This is the part where I tell you that Windows ICS sucks and is nasty even with just Windows boxen. This is the part where I tell you to get an inexpensive (<$50usd) router instead or put the Linux box as the gateway. ICS just isn't very good, even with an all-Windows situation.

I'll second that. ICS requires a box with two ethernet cards, which in itself can be tricky to configure whether in Linux or Windows.

Say what??? Its drop dead simple to get suse to handle two nics! You can even select this option in Yast while installing and it will set up dhcp server on the inside nic for you and set up the routing too...

...

Routers are the key to heaven these days no matter what OS you're running.

Well at under $40 for router boxes, I have to agree with the above. Unbox, Plug in, Surf!! OTOH, when a bug is discovered in these that lets crackers in, you will be the last to know. -- _____________________________________ John Andersen

gchris＠bellsouth.net

07:18

New subject: [SLE] Can XP ICS support SuSe DHCP?

John Andersen wrote:

...

On Friday 27 February 2004 11:49, Paul W. Abrahams wrote:

...
On Friday 27 February 2004 7:35 am, Malke Routh wrote:

...
Hi, Alejo. This is the part where I tell you that Windows ICS sucks and is nasty even with just Windows boxen. This is the part where I tell you to get an inexpensive (<$50usd) router instead or put the Linux box as the gateway. ICS just isn't very good, even with an all-Windows situation.

I'll second that. ICS requires a box with two ethernet cards, which in itself can be tricky to configure whether in Linux or Windows.

Say what??? Its drop dead simple to get suse to handle two nics! You can even select this option in Yast while installing and it will set up dhcp server on the inside nic for you and set up the routing too...

...
Routers are the key to heaven these days no matter what OS you're running.

Well at under $40 for router boxes, I have to agree with the above. Unbox, Plug in, Surf!!

OTOH, when a bug is discovered in these that lets crackers in, you will be the last to know.

Are you suggesting you know of some that don't? ;) Chris

Frits Wüthrich

15:21

New subject: [SLE] Can XP ICS support SuSe DHCP?

I don't know what version of zonealarm you use, the free one didn't support ICS in the past, you had to get the professional version for that. On Fri, 2004-02-27 at 11:08, alejo wrote:

...

Sorry for my english also I am not an expert

I have try to do with DHCP but the behaviour was extrange (sometimes work and sometimes not)(I have to start first the Linux machine otherwise net do not works but internet yes)

What I have done and works fine (after read some microsoft pages showing that is not neccesary fixes IP´s):

1-First stop the firewall in both computers (later once you know it works you can connect again.)

2-windows PC with internet conection (I suppouse this is already done) -IP 192.168.0.1 -255.255.255.0 -mark Share internet rest in blank

this is the configuraion that windows makes to you automaticaly by default.

3 Linux PC. -IP 192.168.0.x where (x=2, or 3 or ....) -255.255.255.0 -gateway 192.168.0.1 DNS (I have filled because I am in another net but I think is not necessary. if do not works I will give you)

3- Once you connect and know everything is ok you can connect firewall. I am able to configure rigth windows(zonealarm) firewall but I am still not able to configure Linux firewall and see windows net.

regards Alejo

----- Original Message ----- From: "John Andersen" To: Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 10:11 AM Subject: Re: [SLE] Can XP ICS support SuSe DHCP?

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On Thursday 26 February 2004 22:54, gchris@bellsouth.net wrote:

...
I am trying to install a SuSe 9.0 machine and access the net thru a WinXP machine using ICS (which supposedly supplies limited DHCP) The SuSe machine is not receiving its IP via DHCP. Can this configuration work or must I supply the SuSe machine with a static IP?

I'm sure the hardware works because the SuSe machine dual boots W98SE which connects to the net with no problems.

Connect the suse box directly to the net for a trial. Is the Xp box dial-up or cable/dsl?

In any event, static should work too. How does your XP box get its IP?

Of course, you know that this is the point where everybody will tell you you are doing this backward, and the SuSE box should be on the net, and the XP box behind it....

-- _____________________________________ John Andersen

-- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com

-- Frits Wüthrich

alejo

16:38

New subject: [SLE] Can XP ICS support SuSe DHCP?

The latest ZoneAlarm Pro release is 4.5.538.001. and yes supports ICS Inside program -firewall/main/advanced/ http://download.zonelabs.com/bin/free/information/zap/releaseHistory.html Regards Alejo ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frits Wüthrich" To: Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 4:21 PM Subject: Re: [SLE] Can XP ICS support SuSe DHCP?

...

I don't know what version of zonealarm you use, the free one didn't support ICS in the past, you had to get the professional version for that.

On Fri, 2004-02-27 at 11:08, alejo wrote:

...
Sorry for my english also I am not an expert

I have try to do with DHCP but the behaviour was extrange (sometimes work and sometimes not)(I have to start first the Linux machine otherwise net do not works but internet yes)

What I have done and works fine (after read some microsoft pages showing that is not neccesary fixes IP´s):

1-First stop the firewall in both computers (later once you know it works you can connect again.)

2-windows PC with internet conection (I suppouse this is already done) -IP 192.168.0.1 -255.255.255.0 -mark Share internet rest in blank

this is the configuraion that windows makes to you automaticaly by default.

3 Linux PC. -IP 192.168.0.x where (x=2, or 3 or ....) -255.255.255.0 -gateway 192.168.0.1 DNS (I have filled because I am in another net but I think is not necessary. if do not works I will give you)

3- Once you connect and know everything is ok you can connect firewall. I am able to configure rigth windows(zonealarm) firewall but I am still not able to configure Linux firewall and see windows net.

regards Alejo

----- Original Message ----- From: "John Andersen" To: Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 10:11 AM Subject: Re: [SLE] Can XP ICS support SuSe DHCP?

...
On Thursday 26 February 2004 22:54, gchris@bellsouth.net wrote:

...
I am trying to install a SuSe 9.0 machine and access the net thru a WinXP machine using ICS (which supposedly supplies limited DHCP) The SuSe machine is not receiving its IP via DHCP. Can this configuration work or must I supply the SuSe machine with a static IP?

I'm sure the hardware works because the SuSe machine dual boots W98SE which connects to the net with no problems.

Connect the suse box directly to the net for a trial. Is the Xp box dial-up or cable/dsl?

In any event, static should work too. How does your XP box get its IP?

Of course, you know that this is the point where everybody will tell you you are doing this backward, and the SuSE box should be on the net, and the XP box behind it....

-- _____________________________________ John Andersen

-- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com

-- Frits Wüthrich

-- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com

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participants (13)

alejo
C Hamel
Dylan
Frits Wüthrich
gchris＠bellsouth.net
Joe Morris (NTM)
John Andersen
Kevin Krieser
Malke Routh
Paul W. Abrahams
Sid Boyce
The Purple Tiger
Örn Hansen