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Who knows, it's up to the retailers and the prices you quote above would mean the retailers would probably not be making much profit, particularly your price on the upgrade.

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Or is it as I suspect that since retailers like to keep a nice profit margin that we might be looking at $29.95 for the Personal and $50 for the Pro? More than %50 off of MSRP on the Upgrade? Come on, get real.

My figures were based on the fact that most retailers currently sell $20 under the 6.4 MSRP of $49.95. However, I hiked the prices to $10 under MSRP for the second set of figures you mention here - I simply didn't mention the upgrade again. Under my second guestament, I would say the upgrade would retail for $25.95. About right considering it comes with slightly less (i.e. smaller manual) than 6.4.

here are some realistic figures: chumbo.com has it announced as 7.0 personal = $34.24 (compare with ~$41.30 as converted from the German price of DM89.-) 7.0 professional = $59.99 (compare with ~$59.86 as converted from the German price of DM129.-) so, clearly, you don't save much anumore by buying from software outlet stores like chumbo et al. I guess they will take pre-orders and ship as soon as they get it in stock. No listing of the upgrade version though. I am assuming that SuSE USA will handle the upgrade version direvtly or through their outlet, digitalrivers. I am also assuming that shipping rates will be actual US rates (US postal mail, UPS, or whatever you desire) rather than the German ones listed on the suse.de site. Please, realize that Germany has some of the most outrageous postal rates in the world and you shouldn't assume that shipping will be the same as for German customers, or, even worse, for shipping from Germany to the US. Did it occur to you that RH 6.2 deluxe is still about $10.- more expensive than the new SuSE 7.0 professional and that RH's professional version retails at $149.74. It seems like SuSE is still a better deal (although what you really pay for in both cases is the support and I haven't made a close comparison between the distros in that respect). Only RH's entry level product is now cheaper than SuSE's. One question I have for SuSE: They have a reduced price for their campus version which appears to be the professional version. Will this be available from SuSE USA as well? Cheers, Alex. -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq

Yes, your right .. Linux is not the bargain it use to be..and it's also not as hard to configure, there is better hardware support, more apps, and it IS a better bargain now because you have time left for other things then making your own XFree config files. I think what people fail to realize is that you get so many apps for what you pay and what it costs to Q&A those apps to make sure they run well together costs a lot of cash to pay people to do it. The tech support that SuSE gives with their distr. costs a lot to maintain. I heard over and over and over again at Linuxworld how much better SuSE's tech support was than other distributions. Some people may not take advantage of the tech support..that's fine but a great many people do and it costs quite a bit for the salaries the support staff recieves. I would also look at the fact that SuSE houses these lists and does a lot for the community. All this costs money and I don't think SuSE charges to much. If one were to buy the "Oracle" ready edition of Redhat they would pay $2500 and with SuSE Professional you get all those tools for around $70 ... if one wishes to buy MS SQLserver and NT/2000 run it on you will pay through the nose for it. SuSE is nowhere near the cost that these other companies are and I REALLY wish people would look at the big picture instead of comparing SuSE to these other companies. SuSE has not raise their prices in YEARS..and not SuSE is just falling in line with other distributions. SuSE wants to provide the best service possible and give to the Linux community things such as ReiserFS, KDE, the kernel patches SuSE provides and a host of other development services, but these things also cost to develop and SuSE is still under other distributions in price for what the customer recieves...please think about this before making judgements against SuSE and comparing SuSE to M$ or Redhat. /end RANT * Timothy R. Butler (tbutler@uninetsolutions.com) [000819 12:11]: --> True. But Linux surely isn't the bargain it use to be - as I said before, I -- Cheers, Ben Rosenberg mailto:ben@whack.org ------------------------- "The only 'intuitive' interface is the nipple. After that, it's all learned." -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq

"Timothy R. Butler" wrote:

I certainly do understand that - but I still think due to brand recognition SuSE should be cheaper than RedHat. It also seems odd that another low-volume sales OS - BeOS - was written from scratch (AFAIK) by commercial developers and costs $10 less than an OS from a company that compiles and supports _other_people's_ software costs $60 - but perhaps I'm not seeing something others are. I guess I'll just have to live with it - I certainly won't quit buying SuSE over it. Not the best way to get new Linux users though - "hey, you wanna spend sixty bucks on some small OS, or would you rather spend twenty more on Windows ME?" ;-) This isn't Microsoft tactics, but it is Microsoft prices (especially RH, but not just RH anymore). -Tim

Hi Tim, I think comparing to BeOS is not the thing. Software, in generel is usually availeable in the following way: Doorbell rings, you open, nobody there. Oh wait, there is a box of CD's on the doormat for a visit. You invite it in show it yoour PC and as you finish you put it back and indeed the next day it is gone. The realy sensible user won't invite the box in, but I am sure if you realy whish a visit, a box of CD's would find it's way. As more installations of a product exist, as more it gets spread and if only by people forthing other people to upgrade to read the documents. As with BeOS now, it's wiser in the end selling a good product (maybe in a limited version) to many people that want to look and play with it than to a few that realy use it, since these are your multipliers. And 6 CD's with all these apps are quite more than a BeOS CD. Besides, I tried to recompile a lot of the SuSE delivered sources both on HPUX and IRIX. It's real fun. To be honest, in some way, I still think the distro is to cheap, considering all the work. And never forget those demo CD's, that come free. Indeed, I must order some for work and other friends... Juergen -- =========================================== __ _ Juergen Braukmann juergen.braukmann@gmx.de| -o)/ / (_)__ __ ____ __ Tel: 0201-743648 dk4jb@db0qs.#nrw.deu.eu | /\\ /__/ / _ \/ // /\ \/ / ===========================================_\_v __/_/_//_/\_,_/ /_/\_\ -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq

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I certainly do understand that - but I still think due to brand recognition SuSE should be cheaper than RedHat. It also seems odd that another low-volume sales OS - BeOS - was written from scratch (AFAIK) by commercial developers and costs $10 less than an OS from a company that compiles and supports _other_people's_ software costs $60 - but perhaps I'm not seeing something others are. I guess I'll

yes, numbers for example. As I tried to explain to you in my earlier post, RH DeLuxe is still $10 *more expensive* than SuSE 7.0 professional, and more than two times as expensive if you choose RH 6.2 Professional. I am not sure why you are now coming up with BeOS. That is a different kind of game and if you'd rather work with it you'd have to look at what it costs to maintain and support it. By the way, your numbers are wrong here, too. BeOS costs about $10 more than SuSE 7.0 as well (I am using the Chumbo.com quote and the price on the German SuSE site).

just have to live with it - I certainly won't quit buying SuSE over it. Not the best way to get new Linux users though - "hey, you wanna spend sixty bucks on some small OS, or would you rather spend twenty more on Windows ME?" ;-) This isn't Microsoft tactics, but it is Microsoft prices (especially RH, but not just RH anymore).

Again, I don't understand your complaint. If you don't want the support (which is really what you pay for), download the free version from suse's ftp site. It ain't any cheaper than that. If you want the upgrade version, I bet there will be an announcement on SuSE's US web site sooner or later and if they go with the same price model as the German's you'd be happily surprised. And if one is a newbie trying out a Linux version you can still have that just about as cheap as RH's entry level with the 7.0 personal version. Or, you could pick up one of the single teaser CD-ROM's from linuxmall (if they still burn the SuSE dist on them). I suggest you hold your fire for a while until we see the real numbers on SuSE's web site. Cheers, Alex. -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq

You really should do some research into who SuSE employs. They do not..I repeat do not just compile and support software...they write a great deal of it as well. A lot of SuSE kernel patches in the current SuSE kernel make it into the generic kernel source with the next revision. SuSE employs 4 of the top KDE developers, many of the top tier XFree86 developers, and many other open source developers. You should do some research before you keep saying that SuSE just compiles and supports OSS software. Your argument is weak and has no basis in fact. BeOS is a completely different market then Linux is an can not be compared. Windows can not be compared again because MS does not give you the range of software that SuSE/Linux does bundled. You do not get a compiler, webserver, mail server ..etc..etc with ANY MS operating system. Instead you get to go BUY software for these OS's... Please do some research before continueing this thread it's getting to be a "who's on 1st..I don't know....3rd base" conversation because you assume to much. Linux is not just this hippie OS created by people all over the internet anymore..it's much, much more now. It's an effort between commercial and private individuals to make the best software out there and let me say this. After seening the offerings at Linuxworld from Helixcode, Eazel, SGI and other such companies...Linux is going to make desktop users very, very happy in the coming year. It is going to be easier to use than even MacOS. * Timothy R. Butler (tbutler@uninetsolutions.com) [000819 13:35]: -->something you developed, compiled, and supported should cost more than -->something you compile and support. -- Cheers, Ben Rosenberg mailto:ben@whack.org ------------------------- "The only 'intuitive' interface is the nipple. After that, it's all learned." -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq

I've followed a lot of this and I really cannot understand what the problem is. I've used SuSE since 6.1 and quite happily buy each new version. Their combined price has been much less than the amount I've previously paid for windoze software for example W95/98 Norton Utilities, Adaptec Easy (sic) CD Creater. Norton Utilities etc etc. And all of it does everything those do so much better. If SuSe cost 10 time wgat it does it would still be a bargain IMHO. Mike On Sat, 19 Aug 2000, Ben Rosenberg wrote:

Yes, your right .. Linux is not the bargain it use to be..and it's also not as hard to configure, there is better hardware support, more apps, and it IS a better bargain now because you have time left for other things then making your own XFree config files.

I think what people fail to realize is that you get so many apps for what you pay and what it costs to Q&A those apps to make sure they run well together costs a lot of cash to pay people to do it. The tech support that SuSE gives with their distr. costs a lot to maintain. I heard over and over and over again at Linuxworld how much better SuSE's tech support was than other distributions. Some people may not take advantage of the tech support..that's fine but a great many people do and it costs quite a bit for the salaries the support staff recieves. I would also look at the fact that SuSE houses these lists and does a lot for the community. All this costs money and I don't think SuSE charges to much. If one were to buy the "Oracle" ready edition of Redhat they would pay $2500 and with SuSE Professional you get all those tools for around $70 ... if one wishes to buy MS SQLserver and NT/2000 run it on you will pay through the nose for it. SuSE is nowhere near the cost that these other companies are and I REALLY wish people would look at the big picture instead of comparing SuSE to these other companies. SuSE has not raise their prices in YEARS..and not SuSE is just falling in line with other distributions.

SuSE wants to provide the best service possible and give to the Linux community things such as ReiserFS, KDE, the kernel patches SuSE provides and a host of other development services, but these things also cost to develop and SuSE is still under other distributions in price for what the customer recieves...please think about this before making judgements against SuSE and comparing SuSE to M$ or Redhat.

/end RANT

* Timothy R. Butler (tbutler@uninetsolutions.com) [000819 12:11]: --> True. But Linux surely isn't the bargain it use to be - as I said before, I

-- Cheers,

Ben Rosenberg mailto:ben@whack.org ------------------------- "The only 'intuitive' interface is the nipple. After that, it's all learned."

-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq

-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq