On Thursday 10 November 2005 2:36 am, Roger Oberholtzer wrote:

I installed SUSE 10 with KDE as the desktop. Did a few online-updates. You know. The usual stuff. Then, when all this came along, I thought I would install GNOME and give it a fair test, as it has been a bit of time since I last did so.

No go.

I upgraded from SuSE 9.3 With KDE to SuSE 10 (DVD). I can run both KDE and GNOME simultaneously. I have a couple of minor issues: 1. JPILOT on KDE will only display the steel skins. 2. Power management does not kick in. (Note that I initially thought this was a screen saver issue). At home, I upgraded my email (sylpheed-claws) program which uses GTK-2 with no problems. -- Jerry Feldman Boston Linux and Unix user group http://www.blu.org PGP key id:C5061EA9 PGP Key fingerprint:053C 73EC 3AC1 5C44 3E14 9245 FB00 3ED5 C506 1EA9

On 11/10/05, Jerry Feldman wrote:

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If you read the Novell-speak they "are not dropping KDE entirely" which means that they ARE dropping KDE but not entirely.

KDE will be offered as "an option" - which means that if something goes wrong in KDE, anyone using KDE will be told to go and get stuffed and told to put up with the "feature/s" or switch over to gnome droppings. Note true. Note that the enterprise systems will be standardizing on GNOME (This is SLES and Novell Desktop). Open SuSE, which is the system most of us use will remain KDE. http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1882118,00.asp "The entire KDE graphical interface and product family will continue to be supported and delivered on OpenSuSE," said Mancusi-Ungaro (Novell's

On Wednesday 09 November 2005 11:50 pm, Basil Chupin wrote: director of marketing for Linux).

But Jerry, you know that if they background KDE enough that they'll stop having KDE dev guys on staff. They'll stop sponsoring KDE events and other such things. Some PHB will say " Why should we support this.. our default is Gnome and we pay all these Ximian people. " " So explain to me what the cost benefit is in supporting this as much as we have in the past. " It won't be a tech decision.. it will be a marketing and sales goon decision. Pure and simple. And that's fine if they want to go that route. I'll just use Kubuntu on my desktops and SUSE w/ out X on my servers as normal. :) I just hope Novell gains as many customers and cost savings as they think they'll get from this. It would be a shame to have SUSE go the way of the dodo bird. ;) Oh well.. things change. I remember the HUGE uproar when SUSE killed yast1... and in my opinion that was a bigger mistake and took them a lot longer to get Yast2 up to speed. Things happen. Oh well. :) -Ben -- Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

On 11/10/05, Jerry Feldman wrote:

On Thursday 10 November 2005 1:40 pm, Ben Rosenberg wrote:

You are speculating that Novell will kill KDE. I don't think so. Certainly, it it the enterprise that is funding the distros.

I'm not saying Novell will kill off KDE. I'm saying that they will stop supporting it's development by not having KDE developers on staff and they'll stop sponsoring KDE in other ways. Having someone compile and make pkgs for SUSE isn't the same to me as helping with the actual dev. I can see this happening. But I can't say it will for sure. I have seen various companies do some really stupid shit over the years and nothing surprises me. :)

IMHO, YaST2 is a much better solution than YaST1 was although I really liked it. There are a lot of people who liked >Motif and CDE.

True. I was talking more of the transition period when YaST1 was being laid to rest and YaST2 was going through it's birthing pains. Now.. no question that YaST2 slams YaST1 .. no comparison. :) Are you kidding me? LIke Motif and CDE?!!! *shudder* That's a really scary thought. *laugh* -Ben -- Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

On Thursday 10 November 2005 02:46 pm, Jerry Feldman wrote:

On Thursday 10 November 2005 2:07 pm, Ben Rosenberg wrote:

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Are you kidding me? LIke Motif and CDE?!!! *shudder* That's a really scary thought. *laugh*

I bet if I walk around here, some people are still using it.

Mathematica for Linux. And the GUI parts are almost worthless. I actually tried to find a way to rip the editor out of its Motif prison and write my own UI with Qt. Steven

On 11/10/05, Jerry Feldman wrote:

On Thursday 10 November 2005 2:07 pm, Ben Rosenberg wrote:

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Are you kidding me? LIke Motif and CDE?!!! *shudder* That's a really scary thought. *laugh* I bet if I walk around here, some people are still using it.

Well, one of my clients is a huge Sun shop. They run SunRay terminals with Solaris 9 on the server. Users have a choice of CDE, KDE or GNOME. Some people there refuse to use GNOME or KDE. They stick to thier CDE... Weird... -- Andre Truter | Software Engineer | Registered Linux user #185282 ICQ #40935899 | AIM: trusoftzaf | http://www.trusoft.za.org ~ A dinosaur is a salamander designed to Mil Spec ~

Jerry Feldman wrote:

On Thursday 10 November 2005 1:40 pm, Ben Rosenberg wrote:

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But Jerry, you know that if they background KDE enough that they'll stop having KDE dev guys on staff. They'll stop sponsoring KDE events and other such things. Some PHB will say " Why should we support this.. our default is Gnome and we pay all these Ximian people. " " So explain to me what the cost benefit is in supporting this as much as we have in the past. " It won't be a tech decision.. it will be a marketing and sales goon decision. Pure and simple. And that's fine if they want to go that route. I'll just use Kubuntu on my desktops and SUSE w/ out X on my servers as normal. :) You are speculating that Novell will kill KDE. I don't think so. Certainly, it it the enterprise that is funding the distros.

Ben's take on it is pretty much a real life Corporate scenario that has been played out across many enterprises for many years, the business schools don't turn out original thinkers, the guys who jump ship are the ones that posses that ability. Alan Sugar has the right idea of keeping those guys clear of business, reckoned their reviews and recommendations are recipes for ruin.

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Oh well.. things change. I remember the HUGE uproar when SUSE killed yast1... and in my opinion that was a bigger mistake and took them a lot longer to get Yast2 up to speed. Things happen. Oh well. :) IMHO, YaST2 is a much better solution than YaST1 was although I really liked it. There are a lot of people who liked Motif and CDE.

Dear, oh dear!, you like bringing back painful memories. When there was uproar at the licensing of QT and RedHat decided to switch to CDE, I thought it was a joke, I had to see for myself the ghastly ghoul that still haunts Solaris but loved by some. I never thought to ask one of our customers why he used Solaris without a GUI installed - CDE too gruesome to face on a Monday morning perhaps. Regards Sid. -- Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, licensed Private Pilot Retired IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support Specialist Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks

Ben's take on it is pretty much a real life Corporate scenario that has been played out across many enterprises for many years, the business schools don't turn out original thinkers, the guys who jump ship are the ones that posses that ability. Alan Sugar has the right idea of keeping those guys clear of business, reckoned their reviews and recommendations are recipes for ruin. Business schools try to train people for the corporate environment not for being entrepreneurs. Upon graduation with my MBA I went into a big bank as a corporate banker. After 6 months of this it was my impression that most bank executives are ass kissers. I then transferred to data processing where I was making more money as a programmer/analyst than many bank VPs. The bottom line for the business schools is who pays the big bucks in donations. I went to Emory, where just about every building on campus was named after the chairman of Coca Cola (or a family member or

On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 03:01:50 +0000 Sid Boyce wrote: predecessor). They have since renamed the business school after the now current chairman of Coke. I don't have the stats on my finger tips, but a lot of businesses are started each year and most of them do not survive. -- Jerry Feldman Boston Linux and Unix user group http://www.blu.org PGP key id:C5061EA9 PGP Key fingerprint:053C 73EC 3AC1 5C44 3E14 9245 FB00 3ED5 C506 1EA9

On Friday 11 November 2005 03:53, Allen wrote:

this is slightly off topic but does anyone have any screen shots of Yast1?

http://www.philipg.nl/yast.html#yast

Or maybe an old SUSE that uses it for sale I can buy?

Take your pick ftp://ftp4.gwdg.de/linux/suse/discontinued/i386

On Thursday 10 November 2005 9:53 pm, Allen wrote:

this is slightly off topic but does anyone have any screen shots of Yast1? Or maybe an old SUSE that uses it for sale I can buy? Contact me later on today off list. I have a number of older SuSE's. What was the last release that had YaST1. BTW: Before SuSE adopted the LSB, they used a configuration file, /etc/rc.config as did Digital Unix/Tru64 Unix. YaST1 was strictly text based. When I transitioned from Debian to SuSE (5.0 I believe) I found that YaST1 was perfect because I had been familiar with Deselect. -- Jerry Feldman Boston Linux and Unix user group http://www.blu.org PGP key id:C5061EA9 PGP Key fingerprint:053C 73EC 3AC1 5C44 3E14 9245 FB00 3ED5 C506 1EA9

On Friday 11 November 2005 06:58, Basil Chupin wrote:

If SuSE 10.0 that we are talking about and the one we know as the original SuSE Linux is not different to the one "supported and delivered on OpenSuSE" then why was there the disctincion made in Andears' message?

Because the former contains some non-OSS software? -- Pob hwyl / Best wishes Kevin Donnelly www.kyfieithu.co.uk - Meddalwedd Rhydd yn Gymraeg www.cymrux.org.uk - Linux Cymraeg ar un CD

On Friday 11 November 2005 15:31, Jerry Feldman wrote:

On Friday 11 November 2005 9:01 am, Kevin Donnelly wrote:

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On Friday 11 November 2005 06:58, Basil Chupin wrote:

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If SuSE 10.0 that we are talking about and the one we know as the original SuSE Linux is not different to the one "supported and delivered on OpenSuSE" then why was there the disctincion made in Andears' message?

Because the former contains some non-OSS software?

One of the issues that faced KDE was that it was not considered OpenSource (primarily because of QT), and therefore its adoption on some platforms, such as Debian was delayed. This has since been resolved.

The thing here though is with things like Acrobat Reader and Real Player. They have never been offered in the ftp download. Not news, not an issue

On Thursday 10 November 2005 08:55, Silviu Marin-Caea wrote:

A quick example: look on kde.org at latest news. OpenSync and KDE Cooperate on Unified Data Syncing http://dot.kde.org/1131568739/ What can you read in the article: KDE developers meeting SPONSORED by SUSE.

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WE WILL NOT DROP KDE, we just focus on Gnome (which is pretty obvious given our huge investment in Gnome developers). I just got a message from our Chief Linux strategist on this:

I would like to know who the #@$%#$ is the Chief Linux strategist!!!

That's easy.. It's got to be one of the folks from Ximian. Probably Miguel or one of his cronies. Hey, they can't get mono going any other way. Mike -- Powered by SuSE 9.3 Kernel 2.6.11 KDE 3.4.0 Kmail 1.8 For Mondo/Mindi backup support go to http://www.mikenjane.net/~mike 4:12pm up 11 days 1:13, 4 users, load average: 3.09, 2.73, 2.46