A (further) simplified installation path. (was: [opensuse] Re: Clinging to Microsoft)
I'm not sure where this belongs (project, factory?), but we've certainly deviated far enough from the original topic. Lars Müller wrote:
We're talking about two different things - you seem to be talking about changing the default, I'm _only_ proposing adding another installation flow.
"another" = additional? To make the matrix even more complex?
Unfortunately, yes. I am in favour of adding a simplified path, but only as an addition, not to replace anything and not as a default (yet).
I might not get your approach. But by adding yet another dialog and asking the user if it is a simplified guy and likes to run the the simplified installation workflow we even add one more question and also risk to annoy the advanced users too.
I agree, but if "we" want to cater to both kind of users, we have to have a switch somewhere.
I agree that changing the default is going to be an uphill struggle (I'll leave that to you) and not in line with our strategy, but offering a simplified installation path is perfectly possible.
Sorry, what is our strategy you have in mind?
http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Strategy "openSUSE does not: Oversimplify the system to the point where configuring it becomes harder. We prefer flexibility over an (extreme) focus on ease of use."
Why do you consider this an uphill struggle?
I think you said it yourself - changing the defaults is usually met with resistance from "the majority of the developers and advanced users". Trying to make the _default_ openSUSE installation more focused on the non-IT aware person and asking all the "experts" to press the "I'm an expert, leave me alone" button - that is an uphill struggle.
And why do you think you can leave that up to me?
It was mostly intended to be humourous, I guess the humour was lost in transmission. However, you proposed it, where as I think we can start with a compromise, a simplified path for those who want it.
A simplified install workflow isn't only possible. I consider it as within reach.
Definitely.
This is mainly a question of checking which dialogs are really needed. It's already possible to mostly only click the botton labled next without entering anything.
And a beginner doesn't care about KDE or Gnome. The network configuration is mostly driven by a DHCP server.
Absolutely right.
I moved the gathered input to https://features.opensuse.org/313062 There I've added even a reference to the beginning of this thread. Feel free to vote. I volunteer to help if someone of the community likes to work on this.
I've only just started gaining some experience with YCP and such, I have a few other things I want to fix first, but otherwise I'm also in. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (6.4°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Thu, Dec 08, 2011 at 09:22:02PM +0100, Per Jessen wrote:
I'm not sure where this belongs (project, factory?), but we've certainly deviated far enough from the original topic.
Project? Sorry, this has nothing to do with this high level mission statement stuff. And it's also nothing for Factory. Cause we need people to vote on it. Our tool for a suggestion like this is the feature tracking tool, https://features.openSUSE.org/ Therefore https://features.openSUSE.org/313062 is the way to go. With your comment there it looks to me like you well understood the intention. And advanced user will be able to enable the needed avdvanced settings screen. This screen would be identical with install process as it is at the moment. How to name ithis all at the end is up to a native spaker and/ or the marketing team. The goal is to make it for beginners easier to jump on the train while not throwing out the old passengars. Anything further put into features.openSUSE.org please. Thanks Lars -- Lars Müller [ˈlaː(r)z ˈmʏlɐ] Samba Team SUSE Linux, Maxfeldstraße 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany
Lars Müller wrote:
On Thu, Dec 08, 2011 at 09:22:02PM +0100, Per Jessen wrote:
I'm not sure where this belongs (project, factory?), but we've certainly deviated far enough from the original topic.
Project? Sorry, this has nothing to do with this high level mission statement stuff.
I disagree. For the "distro openSUSE", it would be a significant change, even if we would only offer it as an extra button. Please don't relegate our strategy to "high level mission statement stuff", that is just not right. Professionally over the last twentyfive years, I have worked with far too many corporate mission statements - seen in that respect, I take our openSUSE strategy quite serious, and I fail to see why others should not. We don't have the multilevel management structure that is otherwise typically associated with a top-level mission statement, hence it is so much more important that the lieutenants working in the trenches are aware and trying to enforce it.
And it's also nothing for Factory. Cause we need people to vote on it. Our tool for a suggestion like this is the feature tracking tool, https://features.openSUSE.org/
OTOH, we could just implement it and see what happens. That has often been the preferred path of the past.
Therefore https://features.openSUSE.org/313062 is the way to go.
In principle, I completely agree. In practice, I'm leaning more towards just doing it.
With your comment there it looks to me like you well understood the intention. And advanced user will be able to enable the needed avdvanced settings screen. This screen would be identical with install process as it is at the moment. How to name ithis all at the end is up to a native spaker and/ or the marketing team.
Yep.
The goal is to make it for beginners easier to jump on the train while not throwing out the old passengars.
Very well said. Also, we don't want to upset the old/elderly passengers either. (to anyone wondering, I am an old passenger on this train). -- Per Jessen, Zürich (11.7°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
participants (2)
-
Lars Müller -
Per Jessen