[opensuse] Question Leap: fonts and colours
I have Leap 42 installed as a test system on the same computer as openSUSE 13.2 -- but as separate booting systems. I am also using the very latest versions of Thunderbird and Firefox on Leap and 13.2 -- but the important part to the question I am asking here is that I am using, thru the use of symlinks, the *same* '/.mozilla' and '/.thunderbird' in both Leap and 13.2. And here is the problem followed by the question: in 13.2 I have selected the fonts I like to be used in both TB and FF as well as the background colours and font colours -- however, in both I am allowing fonts used by the originating source to be used for displaying the text. (Trying to explain this is getting hairy but I hope that you are getting the picture :-( ). when I use both Firefox and Thunderbird in Leap the font and the colour chosen in 13.2 are ignored even though the same /.mozilla and /.thunderbird are being used. I have also selected the same colours and fonts in the System Settings (Startup>System Settings>whatever). Why am I getting a different result when using Leap to what I get in 13.2? Anyone have a suggestion, or two, please? BTW, evern though I haven't upgraded a copy of TW to the latest, I am getting the same results as in Leap: different fonts and colour schemes. BC -- Using openSUSE 13.2, KDE 4.14.9 & kernel 4.4.0-2 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX660 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
To be clear, I'm exclusively addressing fonts here, not colors. Basil Chupin composed on 2016-01-14 18:29 (UTC+1100):
I have Leap 42 installed as a test system on the same computer as openSUSE 13.2 -- but as separate booting systems.
I am also using the very latest versions of Thunderbird and Firefox on Leap and 13.2 -- but the important part to the question I am asking here is that I am using, thru the use of symlinks, the *same* '/.mozilla' and '/.thunderbird' in both Leap and 13.2. And here is the problem followed by the question:
in 13.2 I have selected the fonts I like to be used in both TB and FF as
Fonts you select in FF are only used on web pages that do not dictate fonts to be used, or when the dicatated fonts are not available, or when you disallow pages to specify fonts. Most web pages seem to go out of their way to prevent your choice of fonts to be seen on your computer. Here's an example of a CSS rule used by a typical web page: html, body {font-family:1em "Lucida Grande", Arial, "DejaVu Sans", Verdana, sans-serif} Above is actually excerpted from https://static.opensuse.org/themes/bento/css/base.css which is a bit atypical by including Verdana only after several others. The way the rule works is the first font in that list that is available on your system is the one that will be used for the html and body elements, unless overridden by a more specific CSS rule. Sans-serif will only be used if all four of the others in the list are unavailable. The meaning of sans-serif depends first on your Firefox setting for sans-serif. If you've set that to a specific family that is actually installed on your system, that's what will display. If it's invalidly set, or it remains set to sans or sans-serif, then the font actually used will be the result you get when you run fc-match sans-serif or fc-match sans The result of that command will probably differ between your Leap and your 13.2, especially if you're a KDE user or if you're not using the same WM/DE on both installations. You'll probably also see differences from fc-match serif fc-match monospace With the example rule above, the font most likely to be displayed will be DejaVu Sans, as Lucida Grande is a Mac font few non-Mac users have installed, Arial is a Microsoft font (which some Linux users have installed), and DejaVu Sans is installed by default on openSUSE installations.
well as the background colours and font colours -- however, in both I am allowing fonts used by the originating source to be used for displaying the text. (Trying to explain this is getting hairy but I hope that you are getting the picture :-( ).
when I use both Firefox and Thunderbird in Leap the font and the colour chosen in 13.2 are ignored even though the same /.mozilla and /.thunderbird are being used. I have also selected the same colours and fonts in the System Settings (Startup>System Settings>whatever).
Why am I getting a different result when using Leap to what I get in 13.2?
Fonts installed by default in Leap are different than in 13.2, and fonts rendering configuration was changed in Leap as well. See https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=951898 for some details. The monospace font default in Leap is Source Code Pro, a font unlikely installed on your 13.2. The differences between 13.2 and Leap for Serif and Sans-Serif are tricker to describe. For some settings combinations the result could be Liberation on both, while for others 13.2 might be DejaVu vs. Leap Roboto or Noto. Noto and Roboto are tough to tell apart. If you're using KDE, you might see Oxygen, in Gnome, Cantarell. Open http://fm.no-ip.com/Auth/Font/fonts-comps-ui15.html on Leap to see how different DejaVu Sans is from Cantarell, Liberation Sans, Oxygen and Noto. Because of the differences in rendering configuration, identical font families can look different on different installations using the same hardware.
Anyone have a suggestion, or two, please?
It depends on what you want. If you want identical on both, you have work to do in the bowels of fontconfig, your desktop font settings, and your choices of installed fonts.
BTW, evern though I haven't upgraded a copy of TW to the latest, I am getting the same results as in Leap: different fonts and colour schemes. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 14/01/16 20:43, Felix Miata wrote:
To be clear, I'm exclusively addressing fonts here, not colors.
Basil Chupin composed on 2016-01-14 18:29 (UTC+1100):
I have Leap 42 installed as a test system on the same computer as openSUSE 13.2 -- but as separate booting systems. I am also using the very latest versions of Thunderbird and Firefox on Leap and 13.2 -- but the important part to the question I am asking here is that I am using, thru the use of symlinks, the *same* '/.mozilla' and '/.thunderbird' in both Leap and 13.2. And here is the problem followed by the question: in 13.2 I have selected the fonts I like to be used in both TB and FF as Fonts you select in FF are only used on web pages that do not dictate fonts to be used, or when the dicatated fonts are not available, or when you disallow pages to specify fonts. Most web pages seem to go out of their way to prevent your choice of fonts to be seen on your computer. Here's an example of a CSS rule used by a typical web page:
html, body {font-family:1em "Lucida Grande", Arial, "DejaVu Sans", Verdana, sans-serif} [rest pruned]
Thanks Felix. I'll spend a bit more time some time later and after I have regained my composure and reread what you wrote. I thought that I would try something out -- namely, copying over the fonts from 13.2 to Leap -- and went to use my decades old favourite 'mc' to do the work. Within 5 seconds or so 'mc' aborted and I got a message on the screen stating that plasma5 pooped itself. After fooling around for several minutes, which included rebooting the system into Leap, I managed to get the konsole back on the screen but with the following result when I tried to run 'mc': http://susepaste.org/12506505 Now this is the very small area on a 27inch monitor so you have to view this image in perspective. Wunderbar! Not. And I don't know how to revert back to the original size (without having to re-install the whole sheebang). BC -- Using openSUSE 13.2, KDE 4.14.9 & kernel 4.4.0-2 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX660 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Basil Chupin composed on 2016-01-14 23:20 (UTC+1100):
I thought that I would try something out -- namely, copying over the fonts from 13.2 to Leap --
Bad idea unless you're sure of what you're doing. Simply copying you shouldn't mix them with installed fonts. Best to put them in any of /usr/local/share/fonts/ ~/.fonts/ ~/.config/fonts/
and went to use my decades old favourite 'mc' to do the work. Within 5 seconds or so 'mc' aborted and I got a message on the screen stating that plasma5 pooped itself. After fooling around for several minutes, which included rebooting the system into Leap, I managed to get the konsole back on the screen but with the following result when I tried to run 'mc':
Now this is the very small area on a 27inch monitor so you have to view this image in perspective. Wunderbar! Not. And I don't know how to revert back to the original size (without having to re-install the whole sheebang).
You can revert every KDE user setting to default by logging out of GUI, opening MC on a vtty, and deleting ~/.config/k* and ~/.kde* before logging back in. What happens when you run MC from an IceWM session instead of Plasma? I have no idea what went on to cause it, but you camoflaged the result by shrinking the image to 161px wide and leaving out your taskbar/panel for context. Run MC from Konsole instead of menu and you should be good, or at least, better. Or, was Konsole only a teensy tiny fraction of the screen with microscopic fonts too? What resolution is your 27" screen? There are always vttys to run mc on too, using fullscreen. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 15/01/16 11:21, Felix Miata wrote:
Basil Chupin composed on 2016-01-14 23:20 (UTC+1100):
I thought that I would try something out -- namely, copying over the fonts from 13.2 to Leap -- Bad idea unless you're sure of what you're doing. Simply copying you shouldn't mix them with installed fonts. Best to put them in any of
/usr/local/share/fonts/ ~/.fonts/ ~/.config/fonts/
and went to use my decades old favourite 'mc' to do the work. Within 5 seconds or so 'mc' aborted and I got a message on the screen stating that plasma5 pooped itself. After fooling around for several minutes, which included rebooting the system into Leap, I managed to get the konsole back on the screen but with the following result when I tried to run 'mc': http://susepaste.org/12506505 Now this is the very small area on a 27inch monitor so you have to view this image in perspective. Wunderbar! Not. And I don't know how to revert back to the original size (without having to re-install the whole sheebang). You can revert every KDE user setting to default by logging out of GUI, opening MC on a vtty, and deleting ~/.config/k* and ~/.kde* before logging back in.
What happens when you run MC from an IceWM session instead of Plasma?
I have no idea what went on to cause it, but you camoflaged the result by shrinking the image to 161px wide and leaving out your taskbar/panel for context.
Run MC from Konsole instead of menu and you should be good, or at least, better. Or, was Konsole only a teensy tiny fraction of the screen with microscopic fonts too?
What resolution is your 27" screen?
There are always vttys to run mc on too, using fullscreen.
Will respond when I have been back into Leap and try out your suggestions (above). BC -- Using openSUSE 13.2, KDE 4.14.9 & kernel 4.4.0-2 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX660 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 15/01/16 11:21, Felix Miata wrote:
Basil Chupin composed on 2016-01-14 23:20 (UTC+1100):
I thought that I would try something out -- namely, copying over the fonts from 13.2 to Leap --
OK, back again from my adventure trip in Leap......
Bad idea unless you're sure of what you're doing. Simply copying you shouldn't mix them with installed fonts. Best to put them in any of
/usr/local/share/fonts/ ~/.fonts/ ~/.config/fonts/
Which is what I was doing -- copying them into /usr/share/fonts
and went to use my decades old favourite 'mc' to do the work. Within 5 seconds or so 'mc' aborted and I got a message on the screen stating that plasma5 pooped itself. After fooling around for several minutes, which included rebooting the system into Leap, I managed to get the konsole back on the screen but with the following result when I tried to run 'mc': http://susepaste.org/12506505 Now this is the very small area on a 27inch monitor so you have to view this image in perspective. Wunderbar! Not. And I don't know how to revert back to the original size (without having to re-install the whole sheebang). You can revert every KDE user setting to default by logging out of GUI, opening MC on a vtty, and deleting ~/.config/k* and ~/.kde* before logging back in.
Deleting what you suggest above has done nothing to solve the problem :-( .SNAFU.
What happens when you run MC from an IceWM session instead of Plasma?
Haven't tried to do this. I am confirmed KDE user and installing IceWM probably would mean installing more packages, right?
I have no idea what went on to cause it, but you camoflaged the result by shrinking the image to 161px wide and leaving out your taskbar/panel for context.
Well, I didn't shrink the image but simply captured a small portion of the screen :-) . But to keep you in good spirits here is the full version of same in full technicolor Cinemaskoppe glory :-) : http://susepaste.org/87792924
Run MC from Konsole
Umm....I *always* run mc from Konsole.....
instead of menu and you should be good, or at least, better. Or, was Konsole only a teensy tiny fraction of the screen with microscopic fonts too?
What resolution is your 27" screen?
2560x1440.
There are always vttys to run mc on too, using fullscreen.
Just on this suggestion: trying to use ALT-F2 to run mc simply results in nothing happening. And trying to use Terminal - Super User Mode also results in nothing happening. BC -- Using openSUSE 13.2, KDE 4.14.9 & kernel 4.4.0-2 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX660 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Basil Chupin composed on 2016-01-16 18:14 (UTC+1100):
Felix Miata wrote:
Basil Chupin composed on 2016-01-14 23:20 (UTC+1100):
What happens when you run MC from an IceWM session instead of Plasma?
Haven't tried to do this. I am confirmed KDE user and installing IceWM probably would mean installing more packages, right?
It's already installed, unless you took great pains to eradicate it. Even a minimal X installation includes it.
I have no idea what went on to cause it, but you camoflaged the result by shrinking the image to 161px wide and leaving out your taskbar/panel for context.
Well, I didn't shrink the image but simply captured a small portion of the screen :-) . But to keep you in good spirits here is the full version of same in full technicolor Cinemaskoppe glory :-) :
Yikes!!!
Run MC from Konsole
Umm....I *always* run mc from Konsole.....
instead of menu and you should be good, or at least, better. Or, was Konsole only a teensy tiny fraction of the screen with microscopic fonts too?
What resolution is your 27" screen?
2560x1440.
109 DPI, so things are a bit small to start with if your eyesight isn't top twenty or your nose is unusually close to your screen.
There are always vttys to run mc on too, using fullscreen.
Just on this suggestion: trying to use ALT-F2 to run mc simply results in nothing happening. And trying to use Terminal - Super User Mode also results in nothing happening.
Are you sure it isn't just a tiny blob hiding under an icon? :-) Alt-F2 doesn't get anyone out of Xorg onto a vtty. Ctrl-Alt-Fn will, which was my suggestion. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 16/01/16 20:19, Felix Miata wrote:
Basil Chupin composed on 2016-01-16 18:14 (UTC+1100):
Basil Chupin composed on 2016-01-14 23:20 (UTC+1100): What happens when you run MC from an IceWM session instead of Plasma? Haven't tried to do this. I am confirmed KDE user and installing IceWM
Felix Miata wrote: probably would mean installing more packages, right? It's already installed, unless you took great pains to eradicate it. Even a minimal X installation includes it.
I have no idea what went on to cause it, but you camoflaged the result by shrinking the image to 161px wide and leaving out your taskbar/panel for context. Well, I didn't shrink the image but simply captured a small portion of the screen :-) . But to keep you in good spirits here is the full version of same in full technicolor Cinemaskoppe glory :-) : http://susepaste.org/87792924 Yikes!!!
Run MC from Konsole Umm....I *always* run mc from Konsole..... instead of menu and you should be good, or at least, better. Or, was Konsole only a teensy tiny fraction of the screen with microscopic fonts too? What resolution is your 27" screen? 2560x1440. 109 DPI, so things are a bit small to start with if your eyesight isn't top twenty or your nose is unusually close to your screen.
There are always vttys to run mc on too, using fullscreen. Just on this suggestion: trying to use ALT-F2 to run mc simply results in nothing happening. And trying to use Terminal - Super User Mode also results in nothing happening. Are you sure it isn't just a tiny blob hiding under an icon? :-)
Alt-F2 doesn't get anyone out of Xorg onto a vtty. Ctrl-Alt-Fn will, which was my suggestion.
Just to reply to "the lot" :-) : I simply re-installed Leap as I just couldn't face any more time wasting on trying to work out what the sheebang was trying to do. But for those who may wish to pursue this, I realise that it was not mc which was causing the problem. Look at the screen capture png: there is no command line prompt showing meaining that the problem was in whatever produces the command line in konsole. BC -- Using openSUSE 13.2, KDE 4.14.9 & kernel 4.4.0-3 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX660 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 14/01/2016 14:20, Basil Chupin wrote:
On 14/01/16 20:43, Felix Miata wrote:
To be clear, I'm exclusively addressing fonts here, not colors.
Basil Chupin composed on 2016-01-14 18:29 (UTC+1100):
I have Leap 42 installed as a test system on the same computer as openSUSE 13.2 -- but as separate booting systems. I am also using the very latest versions of Thunderbird and Firefox on Leap and 13.2 -- but the important part to the question I am asking here is that I am using, thru the use of symlinks, the *same* '/.mozilla' and '/.thunderbird' in both Leap and 13.2. And here is the problem followed by the question: in 13.2 I have selected the fonts I like to be used in both TB and FF as Fonts you select in FF are only used on web pages that do not dictate fonts to be used, or when the dicatated fonts are not available, or when you disallow pages to specify fonts. Most web pages seem to go out of their way to prevent your choice of fonts to be seen on your computer. Here's an example of a CSS rule used by a typical web page:
html, body {font-family:1em "Lucida Grande", Arial, "DejaVu Sans", Verdana, sans-serif} [rest pruned]
Thanks Felix. I'll spend a bit more time some time later and after I have regained my composure and reread what you wrote.
I thought that I would try something out -- namely, copying over the fonts from 13.2 to Leap -- and went to use my decades old favourite 'mc' to do the work. Within 5 seconds or so 'mc' aborted and I got a message on the screen stating that plasma5 pooped itself. After fooling around for several minutes, which included rebooting the system into Leap, I managed to get the konsole back on the screen but with the following result when I tried to run 'mc':
Now this is the very small area on a 27inch monitor so you have to view this image in perspective. Wunderbar! Not. And I don't know how to revert back to the original size (without having to re-install the whole sheebang).
BC
Not font related but mc, have you updated your Leap install because I found an mc/pcre bug https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=958072 soon after I'd installed leap. Dave P -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 01/14/2016 02:29 AM, Basil Chupin wrote:
Why am I getting a different result when using Leap to what I get in 13.2? Anyone have a suggestion, or two, please?
I have a recollection of this or something similar when upgrading to 13.1 and possibly 12.<something>. I can't find explicit mention in my notes, but that was also accompanied by a new drive and restoration of $HOME from backup and then a new machine. It the sort of thing that got lost in the details of configuring new hardware. One of my perennial gripes is that too much of the software I consider essential is geared for Gnome and I'm a KDE users. YES IT IS A RELIGIOUS ISSUE, THANK YOU! My vague recollections include having to modify things in Gnome terms for colour and font. I have an explicit note on that for the background colour, font for Darktable, another of my 'software crutches' that uses GTK rather than QT. Thunderbird requires libfontconfig.o (among others) and an investigation of that gives some clues as to caching and where the installed fonts live, notable /usr/share/fonts. I can image that a customized set of fonts in the library might be reset, somehow, with a new installation. Perhaps you need to do a dirdiff between that library, as well as the cache, between the two installations, somehow. I also note that there are many settings such as FONTCONFIG_USE_MMAP XDG_CACHE_HOME XDG_CONFIG_HOME XDG_DATA_HOME FONTCONFIG_FILE FONTCONFIG_PATH FC_DEBUG that you can play with. If I had the time and patience I'd pour over the source code to see what's going on. I don't. YMMV. That being said, there seems to be many possible error messages in libfontconfig. I wonder what the logs show? -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 15/01/16 00:25, Anton Aylward wrote:
On 01/14/2016 02:29 AM, Basil Chupin wrote:
Why am I getting a different result when using Leap to what I get in 13.2? Anyone have a suggestion, or two, please? I have a recollection of this or something similar when upgrading to 13.1 and possibly 12.<something>. I can't find explicit mention in my notes, but that was also accompanied by a new drive and restoration of $HOME from backup and then a new machine. It the sort of thing that got lost in the details of configuring new hardware.
One of my perennial gripes is that too much of the software I consider essential is geared for Gnome and I'm a KDE users.
YES IT IS A RELIGIOUS ISSUE, THANK YOU!
I understand, my son. Flaggelate yourself for 1/2 hour for the next week and seek forgiveness from the Gnome god.
My vague recollections include having to modify things in Gnome terms for colour and font. I have an explicit note on that for the background colour, font for Darktable, another of my 'software crutches' that uses GTK rather than QT.
Thunderbird requires libfontconfig.o (among others) and an investigation of that gives some clues as to caching and where the installed fonts live, notable /usr/share/fonts. I can image that a customized set of fonts in the library might be reset, somehow, with a new installation. Perhaps you need to do a dirdiff between that library, as well as the cache, between the two installations, somehow.
I also note that there are many settings such as
FONTCONFIG_USE_MMAP XDG_CACHE_HOME XDG_CONFIG_HOME XDG_DATA_HOME FONTCONFIG_FILE FONTCONFIG_PATH FC_DEBUG
that you can play with.
I have no intentions of playing with this or anything :-) . If it don't woik then phuk it, I say! :-) .
If I had the time and patience I'd pour over the source code to see what's going on. I don't. YMMV.
That being said, there seems to be many possible error messages in libfontconfig. I wonder what the logs show?
I am also wondering same ..... BC -- Using openSUSE 13.2, KDE 4.14.9 & kernel 4.4.0-2 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX660 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
participants (4)
-
Anton Aylward -
Basil Chupin -
Dave Plater -
Felix Miata