On 2007-01-18 21:32, Greg Wallace wrote:

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After my screen saver runs for a few minutes my monitor powers down. This is a desktop machine and I really don't like this feature. I'd like for

On Thursday, January 18, 2007 @ 10:26 PM, Darryl Gregorash wrote: the

KDE control center, peripherals, display. Click the power control tab, and de-select the checkbox.

Darryl: That check box (Enable Specific Display Power Management) is grayed out. I tried going in under the specific tabs and trying every combination I could think of but none of the combinations worked. The monitor still powered down after a certain length of time. Greg W -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Friday, January 19, 2007 @ 1:12 AM, Darryl Gregorash wrote:

On 2007-01-19 00:12, Greg Wallace wrote:

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<snip> That check box (Enable Specific Display Power Management) is grayed out. I tried going in under the specific tabs and trying every combination I could think of but none of the combinations worked. The monitor still powered down after a certain length of time. Check in /etc/sysconfig/powersave/common for POWERSAVE_SCREENSAVER_DPMS_OFF, and make sure it is set to "yes". I'm really just fishing -- never have I heard of that checkbox being greyed out, and unchecking it has always turned off the display power management junk.

I logged in today, left the room for over an hour, came back, and the screensaver was still working! I went into the KDE Control Center, Peripherals, Display, and that box you wanted me to uncheck which I couldn't because it was greyed out had automagically become unchecked! Not only that, but last night, there was a long horizontal button on that first screen that took me to a sub-menu with several categories. Today, that button has disappeared and been replaced with three trackbars, all grayed out, that say "Standby After", "Suspend After", and "Power Off After". I. e., the entire appearance has changed! The only thing I did last night was to click on that long button, which took me to a sub-menu with 4 different listbox items, go into each category under each listbox item, and uncheck everything on the two tabbed menus that were under each category. That still didn't work, but I didn't re-boot after making those changes. Apparently, simply re-booting the system today caused the system to see that everything was unselected at the detail level and so it just unchecked the box on the first panel automatically and replaced that oblong button with the three greyed out sliders. Pretty strange! Anyway, my sceensaver is staying on now so, however it happened, the result is that everything is now a-ok.

Have you ever done a fresh install for any version since 8.2? I'm getting the impression that maybe you haven't. You've got more problems than any 6 other people on this list -- maybe time to do a fresh install :-)

Greg Wallace -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R. wrote:

The Friday 2007-01-19 at 01:12 -0600, Darryl Gregorash wrote:

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Have you ever done a fresh install for any version since 8.2? I'm getting the impression that maybe you haven't. You've got more problems than any 6 other people on this list -- maybe time to do a fresh install :-)

Mine is even a bit older, and I don't have those many problems, either O:-)

But you obviously pay attention to the output of rpmconfigcheck and resolve your older config files. -- Joe Morris Registered Linux user 231871 running openSUSE 10.2 x86_64 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Saturday, January 20, 2007 @ 6:33 AM, Carlos Robinson wrote:

The Saturday 2007-01-20 at 10:41 +0800, Joe Morris (NTM) wrote:

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Mine is even a bit older, and I don't have those many problems, either O:-)

But you obviously pay attention to the output of rpmconfigcheck and resolve your older config files.

Not always, I have some uselessly trying to request my attention for months - - I feel lazy sometimes O:-)

But yes, I suppose I'm experienced enough to guess which are important and which not, and where to look if I notice problems.

By the way, notice that YOU can produce those files in a system installed from scratch. Things get a security update, and the config files are not parsed correctly, leaving the job to the admin.

- -- Cheers, Carlos E. R.

At the risk of being flamed (I'm pretty scarred up anyway), I have to ask. Is there something in the user manual that says that keeping up with RPMNEWs is a routine part of maintaining a Linux system? For an average Joe home user who's just switching to Linux, isn't this something they would need to know? This goes along with the long running thread discussing whether Linux is ready for the average Joe home user. Greg Wallace -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Saturday, January 20, 2007 @ 3:20, Bruce Marshall wrote:

On Saturday 20 January 2007 15:46, Greg Wallace wrote:

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At the risk of being flamed (I'm pretty scarred up anyway), I have to ask. Is there something in the user manual that says that keeping up with RPMNEWs is a routine part of maintaining a Linux system?  For an average Joe home user who's just switching to Linux, isn't this something they would need to know?  This goes along with the long running thread discussing whether Linux is ready for the average Joe home user.

I've been running linux for 12 years and I've never heard of RPMNEW>.

Guess I've been doing things wrong all these years.

Makes you wonder what other routine tasks you're supposed to be doing and might not know about. Greg Wallace -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Sunday 2007-01-21 at 02:35 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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I've been running linux for 12 years and I've never heard of RPMNEW.

Guess I've been doing things wrong all these years.

Don't blame him, I told him about rpmnew, mistakenly. Think of .rpmold and .rpmsave and what he said holds.

I should be sleeping. The .rpmnew files do exist, and .rpmsave. It is .rpmold which is in question. You say you have never seen rpmnew files in your (linux) life? I can't believe that. Run "rcrpmconfigcheck" and see. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFFssXTtTMYHG2NR9URAvLGAJ9Dt9dwAkO9YsBJjq4jwTHHwIrIJQCdGUBi bEEJiMPMh/LSjxREifWcePM= =phE8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Greg Wallace wrote:

Is there something in the user manual that says that keeping up with RPMNEWs is a routine part of maintaining a Linux system? I don't know. But there is a script, rpmconfigcheck, that starts at boot if you have told it to that will tell you, for example, "Searching for unresolved configuration files" with a list of any unresolved config files under it. I did not check a manual to see if I should attend to these config files. I am the admin of my system, and it is my responsibility to check those kinds of things. If you do not have that script running at boot, you would not notice it. If you do (which I do), every boot (this is my home machine) I see this with its output as a reminder if I need to do something. For an average Joe home user who's just switching to Linux, isn't this something they would need to know? Along with many others. It is just a part of the process of learning your new system, one that is robust enough to tell you things you should do, but not so overbearing as to force its own changes on you, i.e. freedom. This goes along with the long running thread discussing whether Linux is ready for the average Joe home user.

As an average Joe, i would definitely say yes. I could only wish Windows help was so easily available and understandable, and so seldom needed. -- Joe Morris Registered Linux user 231871 running openSUSE 10.2 x86_64 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Saturday 20 January 2007 18:39, Joe Morris (NTM) wrote:

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Along with many others. It is just a part of the process of learning your new system, one that is robust enough to tell you things you should do, but not so overbearing as to force its own changes on you, i.e. freedom.

Joe,

in this case freedom has little to do with fact Sure it does, you can choose to use another packager, do it yourself, install from source, etc., as opposed to say Windows, which will decide all those things for you without asking or usually telling you, the computer owner. that some postinstall script can't change your configuration file automatically as it is not designed to cover all possible variations, and it is missing interactive part that will ask you what to do. rpmnew files are not created by postinstall scripts. They are created by telling rpm via the spec file that a particular file is a config file, and whether to replace the old config file (creating a rpmsave file) or by not replacing it, creating the rpmnew [via %config(noreplace) in the files section]. This is done by rpm, not a

It is just a way to skip creation of bloated postinstall scripts, or change your working configuration with some default settings, forcing you to go trough configuration again. I believe the package maker should know if the old config file would no longer work or not. Since they control that fact, our choice is to

Rajko M. wrote: script AFAIK. It is controlled by the package maker via the spec file. trust the packager to stay true to the package programmers and install, or not install, and do it another way.

The former can really make you angry, if last configuration was result of a lot of manual tweaking and you don't have backup.

True. That is why rpm has the capability. That is one of the reason I moved to Linux. The programmers making the programs are often users of those programs themselves, and they make sure error messages are helpful to them, and functionality to maintain is there as well. They do not have to concentrate on hiding their work from a competitor or making it impossible to copy, they can concentrate on making it run well and be maintainable, or they increase their own work load with cries for help.

YaST has interactive configurations, so after asking you questions it will create new config file and you will see your old file as foo.config.YaST2save.

The foo.config.rpmnew and foo.config.rpmsave exist for some packages and in some situations. It isn't a mystery. They are there because the packager marked them

Correct, as well as SuSEconfig. that way, and they do that for a reason. The reason is one of compatibility with the new program as well as the fact YOU can configure your own computer. IOW, YOU can accept or reject the new config file and the program should still work (in the case of rpmnew), or if it would not be compatible, it is replaced but your old one saved for reference (in the case of rpmsave). And the script, rpmconfigcheck, also exists for a reason. It is to help you know, in a modern system with many package managers and many packages and packagers, exactly which config files need to be checked by root. I consider that freedom. But, you are free to disagree. ;-) -- Joe Morris Registered Linux user 231871 running openSUSE 10.2 x86_64 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Sunday, January 21, 2007 @ 4:24 AM, Joe Morris wrote:

Rajko M. wrote:

...

On Saturday 20 January 2007 18:39, Joe Morris (NTM) wrote:

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Along with many others. It is just a part of the process of learning your new system, one that is robust enough to tell you things you should do, but not so overbearing as to force its own changes on you, i.e. freedom.

Joe,

in this case freedom has little to do with fact

Sure it does, you can choose to use another packager, do it yourself, install from source, etc., as opposed to say Windows, which will decide all those things for you without asking or usually telling you, the computer owner.

Isn't it really a matter of Windows not automatically installing third-party upgrades? There really is no package manager analogy for Windows, right? Any third party software you install/upgrade on Windows you do it interactively, so if there are any questions that need to be asked they can be asked right at that point. With RPMs, there is no interaction, so the package manager pretty much has to do things the way it does.

...

that some postinstall script can't change your configuration file automatically as it is not designed to cover all possible variations, and it is missing interactive part that will ask you what to do.

Makes perfect sense.

rpmnew files are not created by postinstall scripts. They are created by telling rpm via the spec file that a particular file is a config file, and whether to replace the old config file (creating a rpmsave file) or by not replacing it, creating the rpmnew [via %config(noreplace) in the files section]. This is done by rpm, not a script AFAIK. It is controlled by the package maker via the spec file.

I think you're both saying the same thing here.

...

It is just a way to skip creation of bloated postinstall scripts, or change your working configuration with some default settings,

...

forcing you to go trough configuration again.

I believe the package maker should know if the old config file would no longer work or not. Since they control that fact, our choice is to trust the packager to stay true to the package programmers and install, or not install, and do it another way.

Both of the above seem to be true. <snip>

-- Joe Morris Registered Linux user 231871 running openSUSE 10.2 x86_64

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Billie Erin Walsh wrote:

What if you don't have "KDE control center"? It doesn't show up in my 10.2 install. Did in 10.0. Did in 10.1.But not in 10.2.

On the Favorites, it is Configure Desktop (Personal Settings) -- Joe Morris Registered Linux user 231871 running openSUSE 10.2 x86_64 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Friday, January 19, 2007 @ 8:12 PM, Carlos Robinson wrote:

The Thursday 2007-01-18 at 21:32 -0600, Greg Wallace wrote:

...

After my screen saver runs for a few minutes my monitor powers down. This is a desktop machine and I really don't like this feature. I'd like for the screen saver to just keep running.

Why you would like to have your display displaying a screen saver that nobody is looking at, is something I can't understand.

:-P

- -- Cheers, Carlos E. R.

It has nothing to do with appearance. If the monitor goes to sleep I have to sit and wait for it to power back up, which is irritating. If the screensaver is running, I have instant access to the system again as soon as I hit any key. Greg Wallace -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 2007/01/20 10:44 (GMT+0800) Joe Morris (NTM) apparently typed:

Carlos E. R. wrote:

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Why you would like to have your display displaying a screen saver that nobody is looking at, is something I can't understand.

I totally agree here. DPMS is much better than a screensaver, saves power, extends monitor life, no multitasking or cpu usage issues, etc. Linux does have some awesome screensavers, but it is wasted on me.

I have several displays, all made by Sony, but some branded Dell, that have unacceptably long warmup times coming out of sleep mode. On some systems, POST completes and boot is well along before I can see what's going on. Having to wait as long do to some arbitrary period of inactivity isn't acceptable either. I suppose what I really need are some short monitor extension cables that have no continuity on the pins for DPMS and DDC, as SUSE is not the only OS causing this problem. -- "I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full." John 10:10 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Saturday 2007-01-20 at 00:22 -0500, Felix Miata wrote:

I have several displays, all made by Sony, but some branded Dell, that have unacceptably long warmup times coming out of sleep mode. On some systems, POST completes and boot is well along before I can see what's going on. Having to wait as long do to some arbitrary period of inactivity isn't acceptable either. I suppose what I really need are some short monitor extension cables that have no continuity on the pins for DPMS and DDC, as SUSE is not the only OS causing this problem.

No, simply edit the /etc/X11/xorg.conf so it doesn't have the dpms option enabled. On the other hand, my display pop up instantly, it's a flat pannel. And my CRT takes just a few seconds to warm up: I can live with that. Also there are different sleep modes for some monitors, too: sleep, deep sleep, off (my wording). - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFFshHitTMYHG2NR9URAgmhAJ9czsIdYe9umhRovjUfdQSv4XZYHACcDTnY 2uP+ymnOBsJOlyBN9taZ35M= =0sJ6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org