RFE: Include FWBuilder in OpenSuse Distribution
Is there a chance that we will see FWBuilder (http://www.fwbuilder.org/) included in an upcomming OpenSuse release? Regards Ralf -- Van Roy's Law: ------------------------------------------------------- An unbreakable toy is useful for breaking other toys.
Second... On Thursday 27 October 2005 14:20, Ralf Müller wrote:
Is there a chance that we will see FWBuilder (http://www.fwbuilder.org/) included in an upcomming OpenSuse release?
Regards Ralf
On 2005-10-27 13:24:17 +0200, Jerry Westrick wrote:
On Thursday 27 October 2005 14:20, Ralf Müller wrote:
Is there a chance that we will see FWBuilder (http://www.fwbuilder.org/) included in an upcomming OpenSuse release?
see packman. packman is part of this community too. darix
On Donnerstag 27 Oktober 2005 14:57, Marcus Rueckert wrote:
On 2005-10-27 13:24:17 +0200, Jerry Westrick wrote:
On Thursday 27 October 2005 14:20, Ralf Müller wrote:
Is there a chance that we will see FWBuilder (http://www.fwbuilder.org/) included in an upcomming OpenSuse release?
see packman. packman is part of this community too.
Mh - I'm one of these "buy it on DVD"-guys. I like to buy the packaged distribution, install it on a system and give it to a customer - with the distribution DVD. For a customer this gives the relaxing picture of a solid product that he maybe doesn't really understand, but at least he can touch it (in this case he can touch the DVD). For sure I update the system via online update - but that is something known to a customer. All his windows PC's do the same. You call packman part of the community but it adds another source for software which you have to trust and for which you have to nothing to touch. All I install from "other" sources is something that I have to additionally explain - in this case: "When it is that good - why it isn't part of the distribution? There are thousands of packages which are not that good in it - there must be something wrong with this package ..." FWBuilder is a solution whenever SuSEFirewall2 is totally swamped, it is easy to use and powerfull. It is one of these nice things where a customer can see colorfull icons and which is usefull anyway. It simply makes live easier. I think it would be a good thing to have for OpenSuse in the regular distribution. It doesn't need to be integrated into yast. This would be nice - ok. But not needed. It just should be part OpenSuse. Regards Ralf
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Ralf Müller wrote:
On Donnerstag 27 Oktober 2005 14:57, Marcus Rueckert wrote:
On 2005-10-27 13:24:17 +0200, Jerry Westrick wrote:
On Thursday 27 October 2005 14:20, Ralf Müller wrote:
Is there a chance that we will see FWBuilder (http://www.fwbuilder.org/) included in an upcomming OpenSuse release? see packman. packman is part of this community too.
Mh - I'm one of these "buy it on DVD"-guys. I like to buy the packaged distribution, install it on a system and give it to a customer - with the distribution DVD. For a customer this gives the relaxing picture of
Interesting to neglect the packaging community like that, especially on opensuse.org ;P
a solid product that he maybe doesn't really understand, but at least he can touch it (in this case he can touch the DVD). For sure I update the system via online update - but that is something known to a customer. All his windows PC's do the same. You call packman part of the community but it adds another source for software which you have to trust and for which you have to nothing to touch. All I install from
And having a package in SUSE Linux means extra work and hassle for the SUSE packager team. I'd rather prefer them to include less packages, but have more time to improve the quality (although SUSE Linux is probably the best polished and QA'd Linux distribution around).
"other" sources is something that I have to additionally explain - in this case: "When it is that good - why it isn't part of the distribution? There are thousands of packages which are not that good in it - there must be something wrong with this package ..."
That's a complete misunderstanding of several things, including how the FOSS ecosystem and a Linux distribution is functioning.
FWBuilder is a solution whenever SuSEFirewall2 is totally swamped, it is easy to use and powerfull. It is one of these nice things where a customer can see colorfull icons and which is usefull anyway. It simply makes live easier. I think it would be a good thing to have for OpenSuse in the regular distribution. It doesn't need to be integrated into yast. This would be nice - ok. But not needed. It just should be part OpenSuse.
for the 99^999th time: "openSUSE" is the community, "SUSE Linux" is the distribution assembled, QA'd
and supported by the SUSE developers (working for Novell).
The SUSE Linux product manager is deciding what goes into SUSE Linux and what not, because they're
the ones who have to build it, test it, ship updates and security fixes, etc...
So, actually, if you mention that package should be "part of openSUSE", it would mean that a
community packager does it (e.g. someone from the packman team).
Also take into account that it's a highly complex task to integrate fwbuilder into SUSE Linux, as it
conflicts quite heavily with SuSEfirewall2.
I tried to package fwbuilder a few times, but eventually gave up every time because it would cause
more harm to end-users than anything else.
You sure wouldn't want
- - several firewall scripts/apps to push rules into netfilter
- - unexperienced end-users having to use fwbuilder instead of just checking a few boxes (if at all)
in SuSEfirewall2
.. don't you ? ;)
cheers
- --
-o) Pascal Bleser http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/
/\\
On Freitag 28 Oktober 2005 01:32, Pascal Bleser wrote:
a solid product that he maybe doesn't really understand, but at least he can touch it (in this case he can touch the DVD). For sure I update the system via online update - but that is something known to a customer. All his windows PC's do the same. You call packman part of the community but it adds another source for software which you have to trust and for which you have to nothing to touch. All I install from
And having a package in SUSE Linux means extra work and hassle for the SUSE packager team.
For sure - it would move work from me to the SUSE packagers. Thatswhy I'm asking. This is not meant as an offense but I use a distribution to make live easier for me, I could build my own distribution (actually no - I have no time for that), I could use Linux From Scratch, I could use Gentoo - but I do use SUSE because it is the best work to price ratio for me in many ways. And yes - I seem to be one the wrong list here. I thought this list is also an "easy" way to get direct contact to SUSE itself. And - especially for requests like this - an easy way to find out if I'm the only one who is interested in the actual enhancement or if there are others too. This mail was not thought to be an offense to the OpenSUSE community, but maybe I have been a bit too focused on my own problem - sorry for that.
I'd rather prefer them to include less packages, but have more time to improve the quality (although SUSE Linux is probably the best polished and QA'd Linux distribution around).
Could be a good idea too - but please only for packages I'm not interested in ;) SCNR
"other" sources is something that I have to additionally explain - in this case: "When it is that good - why it isn't part of the distribution? There are thousands of packages which are not that good in it - there must be something wrong with this package ..."
That's a complete misunderstanding of several things, including how the FOSS ecosystem and a Linux distribution is functioning.
Yes - _I_ do know that. But explain that the 100th time and you try to use things you don't have to explain.
So, actually, if you mention that package should be "part of openSUSE", it would mean that a community packager does it (e.g. someone from the packman team).
Sorry - I actually meant it should be part of SUSE Linux.
Also take into account that it's a highly complex task to integrate fwbuilder into SUSE Linux, as it conflicts quite heavily with SuSEfirewall2.
I could live with a solution that gives a warning when you install the package - "Please disable SuSEfirewall2 when using this package". We have more dangerous things on every kernel update via YOU "Please run lilo after updating this package" - if you are still using lilo it is a bit dangerous to update your kernel. Especially if you do this update remote ...
I tried to package fwbuilder a few times, but eventually gave up every time because it would cause more harm to end-users than anything else. You sure wouldn't want - several firewall scripts/apps to push rules into netfilter - unexperienced end-users having to use fwbuilder instead of just checking a few boxes (if at all) in SuSEfirewall2 .. don't you ? ;)
You are right - if you want to fully integrate it into the distribution it is a lot of work to do. But lets say it this way - there are a lot of packages that are not fully integrated and nobody cares about them. E.g. try to setup a kerberos/afs/ldap server. Yes, these things are out of scope of desktop-users, but they are included in SUSE Linux and it is good that they are. FWBuilder is out of scope of the usual desktop user too - but so what? Anyway - I just wanted to ask for it. If the answer is "no", I can live with it. Regards Ralf
participants (4)
-
Jerry Westrick -
Marcus Rueckert -
Pascal Bleser -
Ralf Müller