[opensuse-translation] Translation of applications names/descriptions, service menus and missing translations in KDE
Dear openSUSE translators, The way translations of application names/descriptions are currently handled in openSUSE + various bugs related to translations not showing up in KDE is currently being discussed in these two bug reports: https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=904524 https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=932158 If you have any opinions on the current system, or how these translations should work, please add any relevant comments in the bug reports (you can of course also discuss this on this mailing list, but your comments probably won’t be read by any developers then). (For other openSUSE translation issues, please file separate bug reports, or discuss it on this mailing list.) -- Karl Ove Hufthammer -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-translation+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-translation+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-08-16 11:59, Karl Ove Hufthammer wrote:
Dear openSUSE translators,
The way translations of application names/descriptions are currently handled in openSUSE + various bugs related to translations not showing up in KDE is currently being discussed in these two bug reports:
https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=904524 https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=932158
That's factory (aka tumbleweed). We don't translate it. We translated 13.2, and we hope to translate Leap. But there is no procedure to translate Tumbleweed. Some have tried and abandoned. Then, 932158 is about kde finding the existing translations. We, as translators, are not involved in that part, we know nothing about it. 904524 is about incomplete desktop files, in factory/tumbleweed. Well, we do not translate them. And when we do, they are not passed on. However, 904524 is very long and seems to be a different thing at the end. I did not read it all, so I may have understood it wrong. Comment 16, from you, may be it. I'm confused. I don't see what translators can do about this? - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlXQjX8ACgkQja8UbcUWM1wICQD/eYYXD0GkpMyNYTJDAvaK9slw rbGLUdgDqPdzY578mqUA/1KPi+BbKY5FRNe2md5oMIKB/HvXfTuwI0lVr096/J98 =L1Oz -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-translation+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-translation+owner@opensuse.org
Den 16. aug. 2015 15:17, Carlos E. R. skreiv:
https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=932158 That's factory (aka tumbleweed). We don't translate it. We translated 13.2, and we hope to translate Leap. But there is no procedure to
https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=904524 translate Tumbleweed. Some have tried and abandoned.
Doesn’t Tumbleweed use the translations from ‘trunk’?
Then, 932158 is about kde finding the existing translations. We, as translators, are not involved in that part, we know nothing about it.
No, that’s why I sent the information FYI (for your, i.e. the openSUSE translators’, information). :) The bug partly was about KDE in openSUSE not finding/using existing translations (some of which was set up to be done by openSUSE translators, but really shouldn’t).
904524 is about incomplete desktop files, in factory/tumbleweed. Well, we do not translate them. And when we do, they are not passed on.
However, 904524 is very long and seems to be a different thing at the end. I did not read it all, so I may have understood it wrong.
Basically, it’s about .desktop files. Most of them contain names and descriptions of applications, which is used by the application menu (i.e. the ‘K menu’ in KDE), among other places, and translations of these. In openSUSE existing translations were removed from .desktop, and put into .po(t) translation files, and KDE was patched to read the translations from the translation files instead from of the .desktop files. The reason was (I think) that not all Linux applications (i.e. KDE and non-KDE applications) have translations, but openSUSE folks wanted to be able to supply translated names and descriptions for them for use in the (KDE) application menu. In recent versions of KDE, this patch was no longer working, so all application names, descriptions and menu names were shown in English. Also, the script removing translations from .desktop files was extended to move translations from *all* .desktop files, not only names and description of applications. So existing KDE translations (done in KDE) of, e.g. wallpaper names, service menus (like ‘Burn image with K3b’ and ‘Download images with Gwenview’) and image manipulation plugins (used in digiKam, for example) was removed, and these strings would show up in English (in Factory/Tumbleweed, the future Leap release etc.).
Comment 16, from you, may be it.
I'm confused. I don't see what translators can do about this?
Unless they’re programmer’s, not much. But as openSUSE translators you might have viewpoints on how things *should* be done, and perhaps insight in how things *are* done (that the programmer’s lack). And if not, just take the information in the bug report as information on why things are the way they are. :) -- Karl Ove Hufthammer -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-translation+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-translation+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-08-16 16:08, Karl Ove Hufthammer wrote:
Den 16. aug. 2015 15:17, Carlos E. R. skreiv:
https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=932158 That's factory (aka tumbleweed). We don't translate it. We
https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=904524 translated 13.2, and we hope to translate Leap. But there is no procedure to translate Tumbleweed. Some have tried and abandoned.
Doesn’t Tumbleweed use the translations from ‘trunk’?
It should, but there is no process to feed the developer trees with what we translate in trunk-tumbleweed. The process was designed for trunk-factory during the string freeze previous to release of the stable version. The process is not automatic, but manual. And only one person does it and can't cope, I think.
Then, 932158 is about kde finding the existing translations. We, as translators, are not involved in that part, we know nothing about it.
No, that’s why I sent the information FYI (for your, i.e. the openSUSE translators’, information). :)
The bug partly was about KDE in openSUSE not finding/using existing translations (some of which was set up to be done by openSUSE translators, but really shouldn’t).
Aha. Yes.
904524 is about incomplete desktop files, in factory/tumbleweed. Well, we do not translate them. And when we do, they are not passed on.
However, 904524 is very long and seems to be a different thing at the end. I did not read it all, so I may have understood it wrong.
Basically, it’s about .desktop files. Most of them contain names and descriptions of applications, which is used by the application menu (i.e. the ‘K menu’ in KDE), among other places, and translations of these.
In openSUSE existing translations were removed from .desktop, and put into .po(t) translation files, and KDE was patched to read the translations from the translation files instead from of the .desktop files. The reason was (I think) that not all Linux applications (i.e. KDE and non-KDE applications) have translations, but openSUSE folks wanted to be able to supply translated names and descriptions for them for use in the (KDE) application menu.
In recent versions of KDE, this patch was no longer working, so all application names, descriptions and menu names were shown in English.
I see.
Also, the script removing translations from .desktop files was extended to move translations from *all* .desktop files, not only names and description of applications. So existing KDE translations (done in KDE) of, e.g. wallpaper names, service menus (like ‘Burn image with K3b’ and ‘Download images with Gwenview’) and image manipulation plugins (used in digiKam, for example) was removed, and these strings would show up in English (in Factory/Tumbleweed, the future Leap release etc.).
I see. I think :-)
Comment 16, from you, may be it.
I'm confused. I don't see what translators can do about this?
Unless they’re programmer’s, not much. But as openSUSE translators you might have viewpoints on how things *should* be done, and perhaps insight in how things *are* done (that the programmer’s lack). And if not, just take the information in the bug report as information on why things are the way they are. :)
Ok... So, the issue is that desktop files should be translated themselves. The way this can be done is to generate .pot files from them, automatically, which we translate to .po files, and then another process writes the translations into the proper desktop files. This way the applications don't have to be modified, and we, translators, can work with our translation tools and processes. Ie, we need an adaptor application, instead of patching KDE. Does it sound right? Or, have gettext support .desktop files, somehow... treat them as another kind of source code. That would be the best. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlXQrBsACgkQja8UbcUWM1y+VQEAnqFRH1qubPnaHlJcHrnztudr Szh3gH1nOQc2tcgrpPwBAILmQdrE/Aj6CCVQGBLQTTt//BFouFuUgyBBtzGaJ97T =UlYv -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-translation+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-translation+owner@opensuse.org
2015-08-16 12:28 GMT-03:00 Carlos E. R.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256
On 2015-08-16 16:08, Karl Ove Hufthammer wrote:
Den 16. aug. 2015 15:17, Carlos E. R. skreiv:
https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=932158 That's factory (aka tumbleweed). We don't translate it. We
https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=904524 translated 13.2, and we hope to translate Leap. But there is no procedure to translate Tumbleweed. Some have tried and abandoned.
Doesn’t Tumbleweed use the translations from ‘trunk’?
It should, but there is no process to feed the developer trees with what we translate in trunk-tumbleweed. The process was designed for trunk-factory during the string freeze previous to release of the stable version.
The process is not automatic, but manual. And only one person does it and can't cope, I think.
Then, 932158 is about kde finding the existing translations. We, as translators, are not involved in that part, we know nothing about it.
No, that’s why I sent the information FYI (for your, i.e. the openSUSE translators’, information). :)
The bug partly was about KDE in openSUSE not finding/using existing translations (some of which was set up to be done by openSUSE translators, but really shouldn’t).
Aha. Yes.
904524 is about incomplete desktop files, in factory/tumbleweed. Well, we do not translate them. And when we do, they are not passed on.
However, 904524 is very long and seems to be a different thing at the end. I did not read it all, so I may have understood it wrong.
Basically, it’s about .desktop files. Most of them contain names and descriptions of applications, which is used by the application menu (i.e. the ‘K menu’ in KDE), among other places, and translations of these.
In openSUSE existing translations were removed from .desktop, and put into .po(t) translation files, and KDE was patched to read the translations from the translation files instead from of the .desktop files. The reason was (I think) that not all Linux applications (i.e. KDE and non-KDE applications) have translations, but openSUSE folks wanted to be able to supply translated names and descriptions for them for use in the (KDE) application menu.
In recent versions of KDE, this patch was no longer working, so all application names, descriptions and menu names were shown in English.
I see.
Also, the script removing translations from .desktop files was extended to move translations from *all* .desktop files, not only names and description of applications. So existing KDE translations (done in KDE) of, e.g. wallpaper names, service menus (like ‘Burn image with K3b’ and ‘Download images with Gwenview’) and image manipulation plugins (used in digiKam, for example) was removed, and these strings would show up in English (in Factory/Tumbleweed, the future Leap release etc.).
I see. I think :-)
Comment 16, from you, may be it.
I'm confused. I don't see what translators can do about this?
Unless they’re programmer’s, not much. But as openSUSE translators you might have viewpoints on how things *should* be done, and perhaps insight in how things *are* done (that the programmer’s lack). And if not, just take the information in the bug report as information on why things are the way they are. :)
Ok...
So, the issue is that desktop files should be translated themselves. The way this can be done is to generate .pot files from them, automatically, which we translate to .po files, and then another process writes the translations into the proper desktop files.
This way the applications don't have to be modified, and we, translators, can work with our translation tools and processes.
Ie, we need an adaptor application, instead of patching KDE.
Does it sound right?
Or, have gettext support .desktop files, somehow... treat them as another kind of source code. That would be the best.
- -- Cheers / Saludos,
Carlos E. R.
Hi, I prefer to not have to translate these update-desktop-* files and use the KDE translations instead (or other upstream project). Every app added to Factory/Tumbleweed generate new strings to translate, some of them are already translated upstream if not, its higly probably that this app doesn't have a translation for my language at all... yast branch has 18.395 strings, and lcn has 17.528 strings. These update-desktop-* files represents 11.689 strings, 33% of the total of strings... Regards, Luiz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-translation+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-translation+owner@opensuse.org
participants (3)
-
Carlos E. R. -
Karl Ove Hufthammer -
Luiz Fernando Ranghetti