-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Monday 2007-11-19 at 00:34 +0200, Ain Vagula wrote:

Obviously it is screensaver name (look at comment: /opt/kde3/share/applnk/System/ScreenSavers/helix.desktop).

Ah!

It means helix-shaped screensaver image, so when you have suitable translation for this shape, translate it.

Yes... I see. But is it a program name we have to write, a token, or can we write a description of some words? - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFHQMU+tTMYHG2NR9URAnFcAJ9AadLJvKInbL79EpGAVDM/tEZFDgCeNN58 OZl0DgB5EJwBKJ8bcv+Ln6U= =H9EK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-translation+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-translation+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Content-ID: The Monday 2007-11-19 at 10:44 +0100, Karl Eichwalder wrote:

"Carlos E. R." <> writes:

...

I would like to request developers to split it up in smaller files, too - at least till we get kaider running one of these years. Any chance? O:-)

We discussed it earlier this year, and coolo wrote a script to accomplish such splitting. IICR, the script is in 50-tools of the lcn tree. We do not make use of it because we could not decide whether we want to split alphabetically or project-wise. If we'd split per project (Gnome, KDE, the rest), they files would still be large. Splitting would result in 20+ files...

At the end of the day (= discussion), the translator opted to the big file as-is.

Ok.

...

#: /opt/kde3/share/applications/kde/kbabel.desktop #: /usr/share/applications/kde4/kbabel.desktop msgctxt "Name(kbabel.desktop)" msgid "KBabel" msgstr "KBabel"

It appears those entries are program names. Can we translate them? Should we? Is it just a name, or is it used as a token elsewhere, and thus translation can have consequences? Or do we write a description?

This must be decided on a per team basis. Every language is different. There are exceptions, as usual. Do not translate official product name. Maybe, KBabel would also rate as a product name...

I see. But we lack info, background info... Is there any documentation on this file? I don't see where it comes from or what it is used for: that would help us with our guesstimates. For instance, this entry: #: /opt/kde3/share/services/amarok_void-engine_plugin.desktop msgctxt "Name(amarok_void-engine_plugin.desktop)" msgid "<no engine>" msgstr "" It was translated by the previous team. Should we assume that if msgctxt says "Name" it is the name of a program and should not be translated? But in this case, it doesn't seem a program name, rather an error message. Another entry: #: /usr/share/applications/xrolodex.desktop msgctxt "GenericName(xrolodex.desktop)" msgid "A \"virtual business card\" manager" msgstr "Un gestor de \"tarjetas de visita virtuales\"" I assume if marked «msgctxt "GenericName...» then we can translate. Same for "Comment...": #: /opt/kde3/share/applications/kde/ktorrent.desktop msgctxt "Comment(ktorrent.desktop)" msgid "A BitTorrent program for KDE" msgstr "Un programa de BitTorrent para KDE" It would help to know what each type is used for :-= - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHXeR0tTMYHG2NR9URAtaVAKCOzYmifl9Pk7HKaDIeFEPmWeIhNQCfZhDb Te1OEK/0VClbdUjQBcy09D8= =QenA -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Content-ID: The Tuesday 2007-12-11 at 11:40 +0100, Ladislav Michnovič wrote:

...

It would help to know what each type is used for :-=

All this strings came from desktop file, which are collected by %suse_update_desktop_file macro when RPM is built. The desktop file is used to tell the system how to launch the application and what should appear in Menu. So sometimes is not a good idea to translate the string when it is actually a name of the application. msgctxt willl tell you which application it is.

Tag Name is used for:

Use this text box to specify the name of the launcher. You can use the Advanced tab to add translations of the name. This name is the name that appears when you add the launcher to a menu or to the desktop.

Tag Generic name is used for:

Use this text box to specify the class of application to which the launcher belongs. For example, you might type Text Editor in this text box for a gedit launcher. You can use the Advanced tab to add translations of the generic name.

Source: http://www.gnome.org/learn/users-guide/2.8/ch04s05.html

Then, the entire 'update-desktop-files.es.po' file is only used to create application launchers for gnome desktop, and only gnome? Something is wrong. When I create a launcher, I see these fields only: Type: Application ^ (or Application in terminal or location) Name: ______ Command: ______ [ Browse ] Comment: ______ There is no "Generic name" anywhere, nor "advanced" tab anywhere. Those instructions are obsolete or refer to something different. If I copy a menu entry from the application menu to desktop, and check it's properties, I see different things, under the launcher tab: Description (all are editable) Command Comment Basic tab: Type: Size Location Mime type: Modified: Accessed: I'm sorry, but I do not understand, and I need to, in order to understand exactly what I can translate and how. The file is translated, but then I need to review all 6838 entries, most of them done probably years ago by I don't know whom and what what criteria. It appears I should not translate any "Name()" marked messages, but many of them were translated by my predecessor of previous years. Then, you only mention Gnome, but Yast module names are translated here, too. The whole idea of this file is too complex... if there are several entries pertaining to the same launcher, they should be grouped together. Forget gettext! Do something else... There is no way a translator (which is no suse developer) understands all this and can manage to do a consistent translation of each launcher with all the related entries mixed at random all over the flipping file. No wonder this file was largely untranslated, and with a large percent of errors... :-( - -- A very baffled translator, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHXoYKtTMYHG2NR9URAnDFAJ4vZOoz5pwJnmyo4had45e661eOLACcCXJF QNBjYMreKJR65IRJUReUlTU= =x4jk -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Tuesday 2007-12-11 at 15:12 +0100, Karl Eichwalder wrote:

"Carlos E. R." <> writes:

...

Then, the entire 'update-desktop-files.es.po' file is only used to create application launchers for gnome desktop, and only gnome?

No, not at all :) It is a freedesktop standard:

http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Specifications/desktop-entry-spec

Ah... I'll have a look.

...

It appears I should not translate any "Name()" marked messages, but many of them were translated by my predecessor of previous years.

It depends...

Arghhh! :-} - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHXqzOtTMYHG2NR9URAislAJ0Yq232avJByULGQhuxLQft/d3R9QCeOfg6 6GMDwGZSfANkEbxQY1UgU9o= =fTOD -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-translation+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-translation+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Content-ID: The Tuesday 2007-12-11 at 15:14 +0100, Ladislav Michnovič wrote:

...

Then, the entire 'update-desktop-files.es.po' file is only used to create application launchers for gnome desktop, and only gnome?

No. I only found the explanation there. It is used in all menus in openSUSE. That means both menus in KDE (Kickoff and the old one), menu in GNOME, xdg menu in lightweight Window Managers like Windowmaker, iceWM, fvwm, ... or whatever we have.

Ah, I see...

...

I'm sorry, but I do not understand, and I need to, in order to understand exactly what I can translate and how. The file is translated, but then I need to review all 6838 entries, most of them done probably years ago by I don't know whom and what what criteria.

Take a look how desktop file looks like. All of them are in usr/share/applications/ directory. For exampe sax2.desktop file contains:

[Desktop Entry] Categories=System;SystemSetup; Type=Application X-KDE-SubstituteUID=true Exec=/usr/sbin/sax2 Name=SaX2 Icon=sax2 GenericName=Configure X11 System

GenericName[af]=Konfigureer X11-stelsel X-SuSE-translate=true GenericName[bg]=Настройка на системата X11 GenericName[cs]=Nastavení grafického prostředí GenericName[da]=Konfigurér X11-systemet GenericName[de]=X11-System konfigurieren GenericName[el]=Ρύθμιση Συστήματος X11 GenericName[es]=Configuración del sistema X11

Ah.

...

As you can see, it will be weird to translate SaX2, because it is a genuine name of the application. But you should translate GenericName, because it's a comment which gives the user information what the application does. So it can't be in English.

Yes...

...

It appears I should not translate any "Name()" marked messages, but many of them were translated by my predecessor of previous years.

Not exactly. You will not be able to find e.g. "Firefox" in menu if it is translated somehow differently. I think everybody knows browser Firefox under the name "Firefox" everywhere in any language. But it make sense in cases like this: msgctxt "Name(amarok_addaspodcast.desktop)" msgid "Add as Podcast to Amarok" msgstr "TRANSLATION" because msgid is an information not a genuine name of the application.

Mmmm... All this is convincing me more and more that the translation of desktop files shouldn't be done by the gettext mechanism. Not .po files, we'd need something different. Some thing that would group together all the fields of a single file, so that the make sense together: the name, the commentary, etc. Or an extended .po format and tool that does this grouping of related messages. I must be day dreaming...

...

Then, you only mention Gnome, but Yast module names are translated here, too.

Yes, they have also they're own desktop files. You can find them in /usr/share/applications/YaST2/ directory. I would prefer to have all YaST2 desktop entries in one separate po file. It is real pain to look for YaST entries only if I want to translate all YaST menu entries but don't have enough time to translate all entries in update-desktop-files.sk.po. It's easy to overlook one or two of them.

Obviously! Ok, thanks for the explanation... what I'm afraid is that if this .po file is not translated carefully it can break things and cause user confusion. It confuses the poor translator, so imagine the confused result confusing the user, then pestering bugzillas! ;-) :-p - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHXqxitTMYHG2NR9URApprAJ4ipL+mTPaM6vPskdGR2bwaP/OZoACfX19V Ko511rrA/nMWjLlI8hIYVQc= =Ufhs -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----