[opensuse-support] Switching language for a single user

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Re: [opensuse-support] Zoom works;...

Axel Braun

25 Jun 2020 25 Jun '20

15:50

Hi, I'm currently struggeling with the setup of a user in a different language. The system-language is german, and the user language in KDE is set to English (which worked only after installing a second language in KDE - https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=422636 ) KDE and most KDE programs come up in English, but other programs - VirtualBox, Audacity, VLC still come up in german (-lang files installed) test@X1E:~> export | grep LANG declare -x LANG="de_DE.UTF-8" declare -x LANGUAGE="en_US:de" The second setting is probably made by KDE. Is there a way to get this single user fully set up in English? Ideally in a simple manner for non-experienced users? Thx Axel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org

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Carlos E. R.

25 Jun 25 Jun

16:40

On 25/06/2020 17.50, Axel Braun wrote:

...

Hi,

The Standard Manner™ is to edit (or create) this file in your home: cer@Telcontar:~> cat .i18n # used by /etc/profile.d/lang.sh #CER - if it doesn't work edit /etc/profile.d/lang.sh, see Bugzilla 567324 LC_TIME=en_DK.UTF-8 LC_MONETARY=es_ES.utf8 LC_NUMERIC=es_ES.utf8 LC_PAPER=es_ES.utf8 LC_TELEPHONE=es_ES.utf8 LC_MEASUREMENT=es_ES.utf8 LC_NAME=es_ES.utf8 cer@Telcontar:~> Unfortunately, KDE does not follow this standard.

...

I'm currently struggeling with the setup of a user in a different language. The system-language is german, and the user language in KDE is set to English (which worked only after installing a second language in KDE - https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=422636 )

KDE and most KDE programs come up in English, but other programs - VirtualBox, Audacity, VLC still come up in german (-lang files installed)

test@X1E:~> export | grep LANG declare -x LANG="de_DE.UTF-8" declare -x LANGUAGE="en_US:de"

The second setting is probably made by KDE. Is there a way to get this single user fully set up in English?

Ideally in a simple manner for non-experienced users?

Try setting KDE_LANG KDE_LANG=en_US.UTF-8 Where? I don't know for sure, but try the i18n file first (log out, log in). -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)

Andrei Borzenkov

17:38

25.06.2020 19:40, Carlos E. R. пишет: ...

...

Unfortunately, KDE does not follow this standard.

...

Try setting KDE_LANG

KDE_LANG=en_US.UTF-8

KDE is already in English. And in any case, today it is using LANGUAGE. https://forums.opensuse.org/showthread.php/540583-Temporarily-change-locale-...

J Leslie Turriff

26 Jun 26 Jun

07:00

New subject: [opensuse-support] Re: Switching language for a single user

On 2020-06-25 10:50:32 Axel Braun wrote:

...

Hi,

I'm currently struggeling with the setup of a user in a different language. The system-language is german, and the user language in KDE is set to English (which worked only after installing a second language in KDE - https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=422636 )

KDE and most KDE programs come up in English, but other programs - VirtualBox, Audacity, VLC still come up in german (-lang files installed)

test@X1E:~> export | grep LANG declare -x LANG="de_DE.UTF-8" declare -x LANGUAGE="en_US:de"

The second setting is probably made by KDE. Is there a way to get this single user fully set up in English?

Ideally in a simple manner for non-experienced users?

Thx Axel

The programs that are still in German are Gnome based, not KDE based. You will have to modify the Gnome settings for the account to fix them. Leslie -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org

Dominique Leuenberger / DimStar

08:09

New subject: [opensuse-support] Re: Switching language for a single user

On Fri, 2020-06-26 at 02:00 -0500, J Leslie Turriff wrote:

...

On 2020-06-25 10:50:32 Axel Braun wrote:

...
Hi,

I'm currently struggeling with the setup of a user in a different language. The system-language is german, and the user language in KDE is set to English (which worked only after installing a second language in KDE - https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=422636 )

KDE and most KDE programs come up in English, but other programs - VirtualBox, Audacity, VLC still come up in german (-lang files installed)

test@X1E:~> export | grep LANG declare -x LANG="de_DE.UTF-8" declare -x LANGUAGE="en_US:de"

The second setting is probably made by KDE. Is there a way to get this single user fully set up in English?

Ideally in a simple manner for non-experienced users?

Thx Axel

The programs that are still in German are Gnome based, not KDE based. You will have to modify the Gnome settings for the account to fix them.

VLC is listed as being one of the apps that remained in German. And VLC absolutely has no relation to GNOME - Its default UI is Qt based. What seems odd is that KDE decided to rename LANG to LANGUAGE - and gettext (which is the default translator interface for apps) does not follow that. IMHO, KDE should export LANG next to LANGUAGE until the world has changed (so, forever) Cheers, Dominique

Carlos E. R.

09:00

New subject: [opensuse-support] Re: Switching language for a single user

On 26/06/2020 10.09, Dominique Leuenberger / DimStar wrote:

...

On Fri, 2020-06-26 at 02:00 -0500, J Leslie Turriff wrote:

...
On 2020-06-25 10:50:32 Axel Braun wrote:

...
Hi,

I'm currently struggeling with the setup of a user in a different language. The system-language is german, and the user language in KDE is set to English (which worked only after installing a second language in KDE - https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=422636 )

KDE and most KDE programs come up in English, but other programs - VirtualBox, Audacity, VLC still come up in german (-lang files installed)

test@X1E:~> export | grep LANG declare -x LANG="de_DE.UTF-8" declare -x LANGUAGE="en_US:de"

The second setting is probably made by KDE. Is there a way to get this single user fully set up in English?

Ideally in a simple manner for non-experienced users?

...

...
The programs that are still in German are Gnome based, not KDE based. You will have to modify the Gnome settings for the account to fix them.

VLC is listed as being one of the apps that remained in German. And VLC absolutely has no relation to GNOME - Its default UI is Qt based.

What seems odd is that KDE decided to rename LANG to LANGUAGE - and gettext (which is the default translator interface for apps) does not follow that. IMHO, KDE should export LANG next to LANGUAGE until the world has changed (so, forever)

Then, as a hack, I suggest creating .i18n file on home with this content: LANG=en_US.UTF-8 LANGUAGE=en_US.UTF-8 LC_ALL=en_US.UTF-8 DICTIONARY=english KDE_LANG=en_US.UTF-8 I'm not sure it will work, but it might. It would be interesting to know. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)

Axel Braun

11:17

New subject: [opensuse-support] Re: Switching language for a single user

Hello Carlos, Am Freitag, 26. Juni 2020, 11:00:09 CEST schrieb Carlos E. R.:

...

Then, as a hack, I suggest creating .i18n file on home with this content:

LANG=en_US.UTF-8 LANGUAGE=en_US.UTF-8 LC_ALL=en_US.UTF-8 DICTIONARY=english KDE_LANG=en_US.UTF-8

I'm not sure it will work, but it might. It would be interesting to know.

I have extended the existing .i18n file as follows: LC_TIME=en_US.UTF-8 LC_MONETARY=en_US.utf8 LC_NUMERIC=en_US.utf8 LC_PAPER=en_US.utf8 LC_TELEPHONE=en_US.utf8 LC_MEASUREMENT=en_US.utf8 LC_NAME=en_US.utf8 Unfortunately, it did not work. Applications still show up in german. :-( I feel this is worth a bug report - it should be possible to set-up a user completely in a different language thant the system language. And this should be possible for an average user as well. Cheers Axel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

11:31

New subject: [opensuse-support] Re: Switching language for a single user

On 26/06/2020 13.17, Axel Braun wrote:

...

Hello Carlos,

Am Freitag, 26. Juni 2020, 11:00:09 CEST schrieb Carlos E. R.:

...
Then, as a hack, I suggest creating .i18n file on home with this content:

LANG=en_US.UTF-8 LANGUAGE=en_US.UTF-8 LC_ALL=en_US.UTF-8 DICTIONARY=english KDE_LANG=en_US.UTF-8

I'm not sure it will work, but it might. It would be interesting to know.

I have extended the existing .i18n file as follows:

LC_TIME=en_US.UTF-8 LC_MONETARY=en_US.utf8 LC_NUMERIC=en_US.utf8 LC_PAPER=en_US.utf8 LC_TELEPHONE=en_US.utf8 LC_MEASUREMENT=en_US.utf8 LC_NAME=en_US.utf8

Unfortunately, it did not work. Applications still show up in german. :-(

Maybe you need LANG=en_US.UTF-8 LANGUAGE=en_US.UTF-8:de <== LC_ALL=en_US.UTF-8 DICTIONARY=english KDE_LANG=en_US.UTF-8 I forgot. After login again to plasma, you have to check in konsole that those variables are actually set. If they are not set, it means that KDE does not support the .i18n file ("internationalization" has 18 leters, thus that acronym), and you have to find another file where you can put those variables. .profile perhaps? :-?

...

I feel this is worth a bug report - it should be possible to set-up a user completely in a different language thant the system language. And this should be possible for an average user as well.

Yes, I agree. I know it works in the CLI, and it works in XFCE by setting that file. I think it also works in Gnome. The .i18n file is relatively new, but prior to it you could set the variables somewhere else and they worked. But KDE "is different™". There could be a YaST tool for all this. Also setting up the keyboard, installing language files, etc. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)

Carlos E. R.

12:54

New subject: [opensuse-support] Re: Switching language for a single user

On 26/06/2020 13.31, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

On 26/06/2020 13.17, Axel Braun wrote:

...
Hello Carlos,

Am Freitag, 26. Juni 2020, 11:00:09 CEST schrieb Carlos E. R.:

...
Then, as a hack, I suggest creating .i18n file on home with this content:

LANG=en_US.UTF-8 LANGUAGE=en_US.UTF-8 LC_ALL=en_US.UTF-8 DICTIONARY=english KDE_LANG=en_US.UTF-8

I'm not sure it will work, but it might. It would be interesting to know.

I have extended the existing .i18n file as follows:

LC_TIME=en_US.UTF-8 LC_MONETARY=en_US.utf8 LC_NUMERIC=en_US.utf8 LC_PAPER=en_US.utf8 LC_TELEPHONE=en_US.utf8 LC_MEASUREMENT=en_US.utf8 LC_NAME=en_US.utf8

Unfortunately, it did not work. Applications still show up in german. :-(

Maybe you need

LANG=en_US.UTF-8 LANGUAGE=en_US.UTF-8:de <==

make that: LANGUAGE=en_US.UTF-8:en -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)

Dave Howorth

10:50

New subject: [opensuse-support] Re: Switching language for a single user

On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 10:09:09 +0200 Dominique Leuenberger / DimStar wrote:

...

On Fri, 2020-06-26 at 02:00 -0500, J Leslie Turriff wrote:

...
On 2020-06-25 10:50:32 Axel Braun wrote:

...
Hi,

I'm currently struggeling with the setup of a user in a different language. The system-language is german, and the user language in KDE is set to English (which worked only after installing a second language in KDE - https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=422636 )

KDE and most KDE programs come up in English, but other programs - VirtualBox, Audacity, VLC still come up in german (-lang files installed)

test@X1E:~> export | grep LANG declare -x LANG="de_DE.UTF-8" declare -x LANGUAGE="en_US:de"

The second setting is probably made by KDE. Is there a way to get this single user fully set up in English?

Ideally in a simple manner for non-experienced users?

Thx Axel

The programs that are still in German are Gnome based, not KDE based. You will have to modify the Gnome settings for the account to fix them.

VLC is listed as being one of the apps that remained in German. And VLC absolutely has no relation to GNOME - Its default UI is Qt based.

VLC follows either LANG or LANGUAGE and if the two are different it prefers LANGUAGE. BTW, what does a setting of "en_US:de" mean? I couldn't find any explanation.

...

What seems odd is that KDE decided to rename LANG to LANGUAGE - and gettext (which is the default translator interface for apps) does not follow that. IMHO, KDE should export LANG next to LANGUAGE until the world has changed (so, forever)

Cheers, Dominique

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org

Axel Braun

11:14

New subject: [opensuse-support] Re: Switching language for a single user

Am Freitag, 26. Juni 2020, 12:50:15 CEST schrieb Dave Howorth:

...

BTW, what does a setting of "en_US:de" mean? I couldn't find any explanation.

Language is English, Keyboard is german Cheers Axel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org

Andrei Borzenkov

11:18

New subject: [opensuse-support] Re: Switching language for a single user

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 2:13 PM Axel Braun wrote:

...

Am Freitag, 26. Juni 2020, 12:50:15 CEST schrieb Dave Howorth:

...
BTW, what does a setting of "en_US:de" mean? I couldn't find any explanation.

Language is English, Keyboard is german

Wrong. LANGUAGE is set to a list of languages in order of preference, gettext looks up the message catalog for each listed language and picks the first that is present. Note that at least for some message catalogs in KDE en_US does not exist at all, which means it will pick German as the next one. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

11:36

New subject: [opensuse-support] Re: Switching language for a single user

On 26/06/2020 13.18, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:

...

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 2:13 PM Axel Braun wrote:

...
Am Freitag, 26. Juni 2020, 12:50:15 CEST schrieb Dave Howorth:

...
BTW, what does a setting of "en_US:de" mean? I couldn't find any explanation.

Language is English, Keyboard is german

Wrong. LANGUAGE is set to a list of languages in order of preference, gettext looks up the message catalog for each listed language and picks the first that is present.

Note that at least for some message catalogs in KDE en_US does not exist at all, which means it will pick German as the next one.

Is it possible to define several languages in LANGUAGE? Do you mean that each language is to be separated by ":"? Maybe LANG also supports that format? -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)

Andrei Borzenkov

11:38

New subject: [opensuse-support] Re: Switching language for a single user

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 2:36 PM Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

On 26/06/2020 13.18, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:

...
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 2:13 PM Axel Braun wrote:

...
Am Freitag, 26. Juni 2020, 12:50:15 CEST schrieb Dave Howorth:

...
BTW, what does a setting of "en_US:de" mean? I couldn't find any explanation.

Language is English, Keyboard is german

Wrong. LANGUAGE is set to a list of languages in order of preference, gettext looks up the message catalog for each listed language and picks the first that is present.

Note that at least for some message catalogs in KDE en_US does not exist at all, which means it will pick German as the next one.

Is it possible to define several languages in LANGUAGE?

Yes

...

Do you mean that each language is to be separated by ":"?

Yes

...

Maybe LANG also supports that format?

No. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org

Dave Howorth

11:31

New subject: [opensuse-support] Re: Switching language for a single user

On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 13:14:15 +0200 Axel Braun wrote:

...

Am Freitag, 26. Juni 2020, 12:50:15 CEST schrieb Dave Howorth:

...
BTW, what does a setting of "en_US:de" mean? I couldn't find any explanation.

Language is English, Keyboard is german

Where is that format specified, please? FWIW, when I start an application using a colon in the format, it complains: Gtk-WARNING **: Locale not supported by C library. Using the fallback 'C' locale.

...

Cheers Axel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org

Axel Braun

12:47

New subject: [opensuse-support] Re: Switching language for a single user

Am Freitag, 26. Juni 2020, 13:31:29 CEST schrieb Dave Howorth:

...

On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 13:14:15 +0200

Axel Braun wrote:

...
Am Freitag, 26. Juni 2020, 12:50:15 CEST schrieb Dave Howorth:

...
BTW, what does a setting of "en_US:de" mean? I couldn't find any explanation.

Language is English, Keyboard is german

Where is that format specified, please?

No idea. It was apparently set by KDE, because in the respective user session I have this setting - But, as Andrei stated, it might as well be the second language preference Cheers Axel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

19:04

New subject: [opensuse-support] Re: Switching language for a single user

On 26/06/2020 13.31, Dave Howorth wrote:

...

On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 13:14:15 +0200 Axel Braun wrote:

...
Am Freitag, 26. Juni 2020, 12:50:15 CEST schrieb Dave Howorth:

...
BTW, what does a setting of "en_US:de" mean? I couldn't find any explanation.

Language is English, Keyboard is german

Where is that format specified, please?

FWIW, when I start an application using a colon in the format, it complains:

Gtk-WARNING **: Locale not supported by C library. Using the fallback 'C' locale.

You are probably setting up LANG, while it seems that it is LANGUAGE which uses that new format. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)

Dave Howorth

21:51

New subject: [opensuse-support] Re: Switching language for a single user

On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 21:04:36 +0200 "Carlos E. R." wrote:

...

On 26/06/2020 13.31, Dave Howorth wrote:

...
On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 13:14:15 +0200 Axel Braun wrote:

...
Am Freitag, 26. Juni 2020, 12:50:15 CEST schrieb Dave Howorth:

...
BTW, what does a setting of "en_US:de" mean? I couldn't find any explanation.

Language is English, Keyboard is german

Where is that format specified, please?

FWIW, when I start an application using a colon in the format, it complains:

Gtk-WARNING **: Locale not supported by C library. Using the fallback 'C' locale.

You are probably setting up LANG, while it seems that it is LANGUAGE which uses that new format.

I suggest trying it yourself to account for the various messages you will see. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

22:16

New subject: [opensuse-support] Re: Switching language for a single user

On 26/06/2020 23.51, Dave Howorth wrote:

...

On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 21:04:36 +0200 "Carlos E. R." <> wrote:

...
On 26/06/2020 13.31, Dave Howorth wrote:

...
On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 13:14:15 +0200 Axel Braun wrote:

...
Am Freitag, 26. Juni 2020, 12:50:15 CEST schrieb Dave Howorth:

...
BTW, what does a setting of "en_US:de" mean? I couldn't find any explanation.

Language is English, Keyboard is german

Where is that format specified, please?

FWIW, when I start an application using a colon in the format, it complains:

Gtk-WARNING **: Locale not supported by C library. Using the fallback 'C' locale.

You are probably setting up LANG, while it seems that it is LANGUAGE which uses that new format.

I suggest trying it yourself to account for the various messages you will see.

I don't use KDE Plasma, sorry. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)

Dave Howorth

23:42

New subject: [opensuse-support] Re: Switching language for a single user

On Sat, 27 Jun 2020 00:16:52 +0200 "Carlos E. R." wrote:

...

On 26/06/2020 23.51, Dave Howorth wrote:

...
On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 21:04:36 +0200 "Carlos E. R." <> wrote:

...
On 26/06/2020 13.31, Dave Howorth wrote:

...
On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 13:14:15 +0200 Axel Braun wrote:

...
Am Freitag, 26. Juni 2020, 12:50:15 CEST schrieb Dave Howorth:

...
BTW, what does a setting of "en_US:de" mean? I couldn't find any explanation.

Language is English, Keyboard is german

Where is that format specified, please?

FWIW, when I start an application using a colon in the format, it complains:

Gtk-WARNING **: Locale not supported by C library. Using the fallback 'C' locale.

You are probably setting up LANG, while it seems that it is LANGUAGE which uses that new format.

I suggest trying it yourself to account for the various messages you will see.

I don't use KDE Plasma, sorry.

Neither do I. What does that have to do with anything? Just start programs in a given environment. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

27 Jun 27 Jun

08:31

New subject: [opensuse-support] Re: Switching language for a single user

On 27/06/2020 01.42, Dave Howorth wrote:

...

On Sat, 27 Jun 2020 00:16:52 +0200 "Carlos E. R." <> wrote:

...
On 26/06/2020 23.51, Dave Howorth wrote:

...
On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 21:04:36 +0200 "Carlos E. R." <> wrote:

...
On 26/06/2020 13.31, Dave Howorth wrote:

...
On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 13:14:15 +0200 Axel Braun <> wrote:

...
Am Freitag, 26. Juni 2020, 12:50:15 CEST schrieb Dave Howorth: > BTW, what does a setting of "en_US:de" mean? I couldn't find any > explanation.

Language is English, Keyboard is german

Where is that format specified, please?

FWIW, when I start an application using a colon in the format, it complains:

Gtk-WARNING **: Locale not supported by C library. Using the fallback 'C' locale.

You are probably setting up LANG, while it seems that it is LANGUAGE which uses that new format.

I suggest trying it yourself to account for the various messages you will see.

I don't use KDE Plasma, sorry.

Neither do I. What does that have to do with anything?

It has to do because the problem is with using KDE. I know that the proposed ideas do work outside of KDE, because I use them.

...

Just start programs in a given environment.

-- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)

Andrei Borzenkov

11:49

New subject: [opensuse-support] Re: Switching language for a single user

27.06.2020 11:31, Carlos E. R. пишет:

...

...
...
I don't use KDE Plasma, sorry.

Neither do I. What does that have to do with anything?

It has to do because the problem is with using KDE.

It has nothing to do with KDE except for the fact that KDE exports LANGUAGE environment variable according to its regional settings.

...

I know that the proposed ideas do work outside of KDE, because I use them.

bor@leap15:~> LANGUAGE=es:de uptime 14:45:45 arriba 7:09, 1 usuario, carga promedio: 0.27, 0.20, 0.09 bor@leap15:~> LANGUAGE=en:de uptime 14:45:50 7:09 an, 1 Benutzer, Durchschnittslast: 0.25, 0.20, 0.09 bor@leap15:~> LANGUAGE=C uptime 14:45:55 up 7:09, 1 user, load average: 0.22, 0.19, 0.09 bor@leap15:~> LANGUAGE takes precedence over everything else for programs using gettext.

Carlos E. R.

12:03

New subject: [opensuse-support] Re: Switching language for a single user

On 27/06/2020 13.49, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:

...

27.06.2020 11:31, Carlos E. R. пишет:

...
...
...
I don't use KDE Plasma, sorry.

Neither do I. What does that have to do with anything?

It has to do because the problem is with using KDE.

It has nothing to do with KDE except for the fact that KDE exports LANGUAGE environment variable according to its regional settings.

...
I know that the proposed ideas do work outside of KDE, because I use them.

bor@leap15:~> LANGUAGE=es:de uptime 14:45:45 arriba 7:09, 1 usuario, carga promedio: 0.27, 0.20, 0.09 bor@leap15:~> LANGUAGE=en:de uptime 14:45:50 7:09 an, 1 Benutzer, Durchschnittslast: 0.25, 0.20, 0.09 bor@leap15:~> LANGUAGE=C uptime 14:45:55 up 7:09, 1 user, load average: 0.22, 0.19, 0.09 bor@leap15:~>

LANGUAGE takes precedence over everything else for programs using gettext.

Interesting test. But I said to use "LANGUAGE=en:en" I have a script named "English" where I set all variables, and now also has "LANGUAGE": Telcontar:~ # cat /usr/local/bin/ingles #!/bin/sh LANG=en_US.UTF-8 \ LC_ALL=en_US.UTF-8 \ DICTIONARY=english \ KDE_LANG=en_US.UTF-8 \ LANGUAGE=en_US.UTF-8:en \ exec "$@" Telcontar:~ # -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)

Dave Howorth

15:07

New subject: [opensuse-support] Re: Switching language for a single user

On Sat, 27 Jun 2020 14:03:40 +0200 "Carlos E. R." wrote:

...

On 27/06/2020 13.49, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:

...
27.06.2020 11:31, Carlos E. R. пишет:

...
...
...
I don't use KDE Plasma, sorry.

Neither do I. What does that have to do with anything?

It has to do because the problem is with using KDE.

It has nothing to do with KDE except for the fact that KDE exports LANGUAGE environment variable according to its regional settings.

...
I know that the proposed ideas do work outside of KDE, because I use them.

bor@leap15:~> LANGUAGE=es:de uptime 14:45:45 arriba 7:09, 1 usuario, carga promedio: 0.27, 0.20, 0.09 bor@leap15:~> LANGUAGE=en:de uptime 14:45:50 7:09 an, 1 Benutzer, Durchschnittslast: 0.25, 0.20, 0.09 bor@leap15:~> LANGUAGE=C uptime 14:45:55 up 7:09, 1 user, load average: 0.22, 0.19, 0.09 bor@leap15:~>

LANGUAGE takes precedence over everything else for programs using gettext.

Interesting test. But I said to use "LANGUAGE=en:en"

Why? That's simply broken. There is no such locale as 'en'. The error message from VLC tells you as much and the fact that uptime chose to use German when presented with "en:de" tells you the same thing.

...

I have a script named "English" where I set all variables, and now also has "LANGUAGE":

Telcontar:~ # cat /usr/local/bin/ingles #!/bin/sh

LANG=en_US.UTF-8 \ LC_ALL=en_US.UTF-8 \ DICTIONARY=english \ KDE_LANG=en_US.UTF-8 \ LANGUAGE=en_US.UTF-8:en \ exec "$@" Telcontar:~ # -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org

Dave Howorth

15:55

New subject: [opensuse-support] Re: Switching language for a single user

On Sat, 27 Jun 2020 16:07:34 +0100 Dave Howorth wrote:

...

On Sat, 27 Jun 2020 14:03:40 +0200 "Carlos E. R." wrote:

...
On 27/06/2020 13.49, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:

...
27.06.2020 11:31, Carlos E. R. пишет:

...
...
...
I don't use KDE Plasma, sorry.

Neither do I. What does that have to do with anything?

It has to do because the problem is with using KDE.

It has nothing to do with KDE except for the fact that KDE exports LANGUAGE environment variable according to its regional settings.

...
I know that the proposed ideas do work outside of KDE, because I use them.

bor@leap15:~> LANGUAGE=es:de uptime 14:45:45 arriba 7:09, 1 usuario, carga promedio: 0.27, 0.20, 0.09 bor@leap15:~> LANGUAGE=en:de uptime 14:45:50 7:09 an, 1 Benutzer, Durchschnittslast: 0.25, 0.20, 0.09 bor@leap15:~> LANGUAGE=C uptime 14:45:55 up 7:09, 1 user, load average: 0.22, 0.19, 0.09 bor@leap15:~>

LANGUAGE takes precedence over everything else for programs using gettext.

Interesting test. But I said to use "LANGUAGE=en:en"

Why? That's simply broken.

There is no such locale as 'en'. The error message from VLC tells you as much and the fact that uptime chose to use German when presented with "en:de" tells you the same thing.

Just to add - your suggestion is equivalent to LANGUAGE=C

...

...
I have a script named "English" where I set all variables, and now also has "LANGUAGE":

Telcontar:~ # cat /usr/local/bin/ingles #!/bin/sh

LANG=en_US.UTF-8 \ LC_ALL=en_US.UTF-8 \ DICTIONARY=english \ KDE_LANG=en_US.UTF-8 \ LANGUAGE=en_US.UTF-8:en \ exec "$@" Telcontar:~ #

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

18:25

New subject: [opensuse-support] Re: Switching language for a single user

On 27/06/2020 17.55, Dave Howorth wrote:

...

On Sat, 27 Jun 2020 16:07:34 +0100 Dave Howorth <> wrote:

...
On Sat, 27 Jun 2020 14:03:40 +0200 "Carlos E. R." <> wrote:

...
On 27/06/2020 13.49, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:

...
27.06.2020 11:31, Carlos E. R. пишет:

...
...
> > I don't use KDE Plasma, sorry.

Neither do I. What does that have to do with anything?

It has to do because the problem is with using KDE.

It has nothing to do with KDE except for the fact that KDE exports LANGUAGE environment variable according to its regional settings.

...
I know that the proposed ideas do work outside of KDE, because I use them.

bor@leap15:~> LANGUAGE=es:de uptime 14:45:45 arriba 7:09, 1 usuario, carga promedio: 0.27, 0.20, 0.09 bor@leap15:~> LANGUAGE=en:de uptime 14:45:50 7:09 an, 1 Benutzer, Durchschnittslast: 0.25, 0.20, 0.09 bor@leap15:~> LANGUAGE=C uptime 14:45:55 up 7:09, 1 user, load average: 0.22, 0.19, 0.09 bor@leap15:~>

LANGUAGE takes precedence over everything else for programs using gettext.

Interesting test. But I said to use "LANGUAGE=en:en"

Why? That's simply broken.

There is no such locale as 'en'. The error message from VLC tells you as much and the fact that uptime chose to use German when presented with "en:de" tells you the same thing.

Just to add - your suggestion is equivalent to LANGUAGE=C

...
...
I have a script named "English" where I set all variables, and now also has "LANGUAGE":

Telcontar:~ # cat /usr/local/bin/ingles #!/bin/sh

LANG=en_US.UTF-8 \ LC_ALL=en_US.UTF-8 \ DICTIONARY=english \ KDE_LANG=en_US.UTF-8 \ LANGUAGE=en_US.UTF-8:en \ exec "$@" Telcontar:~ #

I tried "LANGUAGE=fr_ES.UTF-8:en vlc" and got the program in French. I have it set to "es_ES.UTF-8". It works. cer@Telcontar:~> LANGUAGE=en:es uptime 20:22:39 arriba 2 días 9:47, 1 usuario, carga promedio: 0,22, 0,32, 0,30 cer@Telcontar:~> It is using the "es" /locale/, however it interprets that. Good :-) -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)

Dave Howorth

21:37

New subject: [opensuse-support] Re: Switching language for a single user

On Sat, 27 Jun 2020 20:25:41 +0200 "Carlos E. R." wrote:

...

On 27/06/2020 17.55, Dave Howorth wrote:

...
On Sat, 27 Jun 2020 16:07:34 +0100 Dave Howorth <> wrote:

...
On Sat, 27 Jun 2020 14:03:40 +0200 "Carlos E. R." <> wrote:

...
On 27/06/2020 13.49, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:

...
27.06.2020 11:31, Carlos E. R. пишет:

...
>> >> I don't use KDE Plasma, sorry. > > Neither do I. What does that have to do with anything?

It has to do because the problem is with using KDE.

It has nothing to do with KDE except for the fact that KDE exports LANGUAGE environment variable according to its regional settings.

...
I know that the proposed ideas do work outside of KDE, because I use them.

bor@leap15:~> LANGUAGE=es:de uptime 14:45:45 arriba 7:09, 1 usuario, carga promedio: 0.27, 0.20, 0.09 bor@leap15:~> LANGUAGE=en:de uptime 14:45:50 7:09 an, 1 Benutzer, Durchschnittslast: 0.25, 0.20, 0.09 bor@leap15:~> LANGUAGE=C uptime 14:45:55 up 7:09, 1 user, load average: 0.22, 0.19, 0.09 bor@leap15:~>

LANGUAGE takes precedence over everything else for programs using gettext.

Interesting test. But I said to use "LANGUAGE=en:en"

Why? That's simply broken.

There is no such locale as 'en'. The error message from VLC tells you as much and the fact that uptime chose to use German when presented with "en:de" tells you the same thing.

Just to add - your suggestion is equivalent to LANGUAGE=C

...
...
I have a script named "English" where I set all variables, and now also has "LANGUAGE":

Telcontar:~ # cat /usr/local/bin/ingles #!/bin/sh

LANG=en_US.UTF-8 \ LC_ALL=en_US.UTF-8 \ DICTIONARY=english \ KDE_LANG=en_US.UTF-8 \ LANGUAGE=en_US.UTF-8:en \ exec "$@" Telcontar:~ #

I tried "LANGUAGE=fr_ES.UTF-8:en vlc" and got the program in French. I have it set to "es_ES.UTF-8". It works.

cer@Telcontar:~> LANGUAGE=en:es uptime 20:22:39 arriba 2 días 9:47, 1 usuario, carga promedio: 0,22, 0,32, 0,30 cer@Telcontar:~>

It is using the "es" /locale/, however it interprets that.

Yeah, well there are lots of es* locales, including es itself, which includes a lot more than en by itself does.

...

Good :-)

I don't think it's good at all. I think it's so complicated that we can't even figure out what it is we're trying to bug report. It's clear that different programs behave differently in identical circumstances, which as a user I find unacceptable, but I don't know enough (anything?) about the politics to know what is reasonable. Fortunately English is my native language, so I don't generally suffer too much from the consequences. And I don't try to operate multilingual machines. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

21:48

New subject: [opensuse-support] Re: Switching language for a single user

On 27/06/2020 23.37, Dave Howorth wrote:

...

On Sat, 27 Jun 2020 20:25:41 +0200 "Carlos E. R." <> wrote:

...
On 27/06/2020 17.55, Dave Howorth wrote:

...
On Sat, 27 Jun 2020 16:07:34 +0100 Dave Howorth <> wrote:

...
On Sat, 27 Jun 2020 14:03:40 +0200 "Carlos E. R." <> wrote:

...
On 27/06/2020 13.49, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:

...
27.06.2020 11:31, Carlos E. R. пишет:

...

...
I tried "LANGUAGE=fr_ES.UTF-8:en vlc" and got the program in French. I have it set to "es_ES.UTF-8". It works.

cer@Telcontar:~> LANGUAGE=en:es uptime 20:22:39 arriba 2 días 9:47, 1 usuario, carga promedio: 0,22, 0,32, 0,30 cer@Telcontar:~>

It is using the "es" /locale/, however it interprets that.

Yeah, well there are lots of es* locales, including es itself, which includes a lot more than en by itself does.

...
Good :-)

I don't think it's good at all. I think it's so complicated that we can't even figure out what it is we're trying to bug report.

It's clear that different programs behave differently in identical circumstances, which as a user I find unacceptable, but I don't know enough (anything?) about the politics to know what is reasonable. Fortunately English is my native language, so I don't generally suffer too much from the consequences. And I don't try to operate multilingual machines.

How "LANGUAGE=..." works is very clear, there is no bug there. It works. No bug there. As far as I can see I can set it up to get the exact results I may want. The bug or missing feature is in how KDE allows or does not allow users to set that variable up. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)

Dave Howorth

22:12

New subject: [opensuse-support] Re: Switching language for a single user

On Sat, 27 Jun 2020 23:48:35 +0200 "Carlos E. R." wrote:

...

On 27/06/2020 23.37, Dave Howorth wrote:

...
On Sat, 27 Jun 2020 20:25:41 +0200 "Carlos E. R." <> wrote:

...
On 27/06/2020 17.55, Dave Howorth wrote:

...
On Sat, 27 Jun 2020 16:07:34 +0100 Dave Howorth <> wrote:

...
On Sat, 27 Jun 2020 14:03:40 +0200 "Carlos E. R." <> wrote:

...
On 27/06/2020 13.49, Andrei Borzenkov wrote: > 27.06.2020 11:31, Carlos E. R. пишет:

...
...
I tried "LANGUAGE=fr_ES.UTF-8:en vlc" and got the program in French. I have it set to "es_ES.UTF-8". It works.

cer@Telcontar:~> LANGUAGE=en:es uptime 20:22:39 arriba 2 días 9:47, 1 usuario, carga promedio: 0,22, 0,32, 0,30 cer@Telcontar:~>

It is using the "es" /locale/, however it interprets that.

Yeah, well there are lots of es* locales, including es itself, which includes a lot more than en by itself does.

...
Good :-)

I don't think it's good at all. I think it's so complicated that we can't even figure out what it is we're trying to bug report.

It's clear that different programs behave differently in identical circumstances, which as a user I find unacceptable, but I don't know enough (anything?) about the politics to know what is reasonable. Fortunately English is my native language, so I don't generally suffer too much from the consequences. And I don't try to operate multilingual machines.

How "LANGUAGE=..." works is very clear, there is no bug there. It works. No bug there. As far as I can see I can set it up to get the exact results I may want.

The bug or missing feature is in how KDE allows or does not allow users to set that variable up.

No the bug is the inconsistency between how different applications deal with the settings. There may be KDE bugs as well, of course. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

28 Jun 28 Jun

00:49

New subject: [opensuse-support] Re: Switching language for a single user

On 28/06/2020 00.12, Dave Howorth wrote:

...

On Sat, 27 Jun 2020 23:48:35 +0200 "Carlos E. R." <> wrote:

...
On 27/06/2020 23.37, Dave Howorth wrote:

...
On Sat, 27 Jun 2020 20:25:41 +0200 "Carlos E. R." <> wrote:

...
On 27/06/2020 17.55, Dave Howorth wrote:

...
On Sat, 27 Jun 2020 16:07:34 +0100 Dave Howorth <> wrote:

...
On Sat, 27 Jun 2020 14:03:40 +0200 "Carlos E. R." <> wrote: > On 27/06/2020 13.49, Andrei Borzenkov wrote: >> 27.06.2020 11:31, Carlos E. R. пишет:

...
...
I tried "LANGUAGE=fr_ES.UTF-8:en vlc" and got the program in French. I have it set to "es_ES.UTF-8". It works.

cer@Telcontar:~> LANGUAGE=en:es uptime 20:22:39 arriba 2 días 9:47, 1 usuario, carga promedio: 0,22, 0,32, 0,30 cer@Telcontar:~>

It is using the "es" /locale/, however it interprets that.

Yeah, well there are lots of es* locales, including es itself, which includes a lot more than en by itself does.

...
Good :-)

I don't think it's good at all. I think it's so complicated that we can't even figure out what it is we're trying to bug report.

It's clear that different programs behave differently in identical circumstances, which as a user I find unacceptable, but I don't know enough (anything?) about the politics to know what is reasonable. Fortunately English is my native language, so I don't generally suffer too much from the consequences. And I don't try to operate multilingual machines.

How "LANGUAGE=..." works is very clear, there is no bug there. It works. No bug there. As far as I can see I can set it up to get the exact results I may want.

The bug or missing feature is in how KDE allows or does not allow users to set that variable up.

No the bug is the inconsistency between how different applications deal with the settings. There may be KDE bugs as well, of course.

But there is no inconsistency. Andrei explained it well. You may wish to open one bug against each application that doesn't do this or that locale, thus thousands of bug reports, but this basically depend on what volunteers each project gets, and what translations each of those volunteers want to do. Bug reporting will not get more volunteer translators. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)

Axel Braun

07:52

New subject: [opensuse-support] Re: Switching language for a single user

Am Sonntag, 28. Juni 2020, 02:49:29 CEST schrieb Carlos E. R.:

...

On 28/06/2020 00.12, Dave Howorth wrote:

...
On Sat, 27 Jun 2020 23:48:35 +0200 "Carlos E. R." <> wrote:

...
On 27/06/2020 23.37, Dave Howorth wrote:

...
On Sat, 27 Jun 2020 20:25:41 +0200 "Carlos E. R." <> wrote:

...
On 27/06/2020 17.55, Dave Howorth wrote:

...
On Sat, 27 Jun 2020 16:07:34 +0100 Dave Howorth <> wrote: > On Sat, 27 Jun 2020 14:03:40 +0200 "Carlos E. R." <> wrote: >> On 27/06/2020 13.49, Andrei Borzenkov wrote: >>> 27.06.2020 11:31, Carlos E. R. пишет: I tried "LANGUAGE=fr_ES.UTF-8:en vlc" and got the program in French. I have it set to "es_ES.UTF-8". It works.

cer@Telcontar:~> LANGUAGE=en:es uptime

20:22:39 arriba 2 días 9:47, 1 usuario, carga promedio: 0,22,

0,32, 0,30 cer@Telcontar:~>

It is using the "es" /locale/, however it interprets that.

Yeah, well there are lots of es* locales, including es itself, which includes a lot more than en by itself does.

...
Good :-)

I don't think it's good at all. I think it's so complicated that we can't even figure out what it is we're trying to bug report.

It's clear that different programs behave differently in identical circumstances, which as a user I find unacceptable, but I don't know enough (anything?) about the politics to know what is reasonable. Fortunately English is my native language, so I don't generally suffer too much from the consequences. And I don't try to operate multilingual machines.

How "LANGUAGE=..." works is very clear, there is no bug there. It works. No bug there. As far as I can see I can set it up to get the exact results I may want.

The bug or missing feature is in how KDE allows or does not allow users to set that variable up.

No the bug is the inconsistency between how different applications deal with the settings. There may be KDE bugs as well, of course.

But there is no inconsistency. Andrei explained it well.

He did, indeed

...

You may wish to open one bug against each application that doesn't do this or that locale, thus thousands of bug reports, but this basically depend on what volunteers each project gets, and what translations each of those volunteers want to do. Bug reporting will not get more volunteer translators.

No. The problem is in KDE. I have extended the description https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=422636 accordingly Thanks again Axel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org

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Andrei Borzenkov
Axel Braun
Carlos E. R.
Dave Howorth
Dominique Leuenberger / DimStar
J Leslie Turriff

[opensuse-support] Switching language for a single user

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