On Sun, 15 Dec 2019 00:14:19 +0300 Andrei Borzenkov wrote:

15.12.2019 00:03, tomas.kuchta.lists@gmail.com пишет:

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I am just worried about the project: * no news/announcements

I see regular announcements on both factory and announcement mailing lists.

To be fair, the question was about the website https://www.opensuse.org/ and not about other channels. There is the word NEWS part way down the page, but its not a link and there's no news under it. If you say that's reasonable and continue looking you find an active link to https://news.opensuse.org/ at the bottom of the page but that seems to be a random blog page rather than an organized news page abot future plans. In particular the tags are not standardised, so if you got to the current first article 'GNOME, LLVM, Samba, Ruby Packages Update in Tumbleweed' and click on the tag for 'Leap 15.2' it shows you just that article. If instead you search the original news page for 15.2 you find there is just one more article that mentions 15.2 'KDE and openSUSE: Plasma 5.17, Qt 5.14 and more' and that uses a different tag :( ! So I'd agree with the OP that the website content is pretty poor.

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* 15.0 packages seems to be no longer updated, although 15.1 is still updated

Why do you expect updates for a version that is officially end of support?

There's nothing about 15.0 on the page, or about 15.2.

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* the kernel is pretty old in 15.1 .... no visible plans to update ithis

This has been beaten to death. Take time to search archives, really.

I agree that's not really the sort of content I'd expect to find on that page.

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* will there will be openSuse 15.2, is it being developed? When?

OMG :( Did you try as much as google for "opensuse leap release schedule"? Did you look at factory mailing list where new Leap 15.2 builds are announced pretty regulary? Did you try as much as looking on download.opensuse.org?

As above, they aren't the page under discussion. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org

Thank you very much Christian, This is very helpful, I am happy to hear that the opensuse project is still going. You mention Provo - if that means SuSE US HQ in UT - it probably explains the state of the web site and difficulty to fix/simplify/improve/change anything. If I may have one follow up question: 15.2 road map will be based on SLE 15 SP2 ==> the kernel choice will follow enterprise community <-- do we know the kernel version chosen already? Thanks again for your answer and very happy end of the year time, Tomas On Sat, 2019-12-14 at 23:34 +0100, Christian Boltz wrote:

Hello,

Am Samstag, 14. Dezember 2019, 23:00:19 CET schrieb Dave Howorth:

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On Sun, 15 Dec 2019 00:14:19 +0300 Andrei Borzenkov wrote:

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15.12.2019 00:03, tomas.kuchta.lists@gmail.com пишет:

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I am just worried about the project: * no news/announcements

I see regular announcements on both factory and announcement mailing lists.

To be fair, the question was about the website https://www.opensuse.org/ and not about other channels. There is the word NEWS part way down the page, but its not a link and there's no news under it.

I'm afraid that's a side effect of a known technical problem. Whenever the wordpress running news.opensuse.org gets updated, the RSS feed breaks (it "just" has some additional whitespace, but that's enough to make it invalid XML). Unfortunately the admin in Provo isn't very fast in fixing it :-(

The news section in www.opensuse.org tries to use exactly that RSS feed, and because it's broken since at least a month, the news section is empty since then.

@Cynthia: Maybe you can include a check and display at least a link to news.o.o instead of the empty section when the feed is broken?

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If you say that's reasonable and continue looking you find an active link to https://news.opensuse.org/ at the bottom of the page but that seems to be a random blog page rather than an organized news page abot future plans.

news.opensuse.org is the official news page of openSUSE - and since we have news from various areas of the project, it probably doesn't look as organized as you'd want it to be ;-)

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* 15.0 packages seems to be no longer updated, although 15.1 is still updated

Why do you expect updates for a version that is officially end of support?

There's nothing about 15.0 on the page, or about 15.2.

That might be because 15.0 just went EOL, and 15.2 is still under development.

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* will there will be openSuse 15.2, is it being developed? When?

OMG :( Did you try as much as google for "opensuse leap release schedule"? Did you look at factory mailing list where new Leap 15.2 builds are announced pretty regulary? Did you try as much as looking on download.opensuse.org?

As above, they aren't the page under discussion.

Please have a look here: https://en.opensuse.org/Lifetime https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Roadmap

Regards,

Christian Boltz

PS @Tomas (to avoid another mail): If Richard stepping down is the last openSUSE news you read, then you'll have to read quite some things on news.opensuse.org which happened since then. For example, we have a (not-so-)new chairman, and the first phase of the board elections also started.

--

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Wo ist der Unterschied Voip / ISDN

Das merkst du, wenn dein Internet-Anschluss ausfällt und du den Provider anrufen willst, um zu fragen, wann denn der Anschluss entstört wird... [> Luzius und Sandy Drobic in opensuse-de]

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org

This is getting out of the original topic - I woried about the health opensuse community/project as observed on opensuse.org I got the answer and I should have resisted going beyond that - my apologies for not keeping it short and sweet. I understand the the website is broken and there are long term upkeep problems - meaning that opensuse does not have own community and has to rely on google search to communicate with the community. Given that opensuse.org is running on suse.com corporate support/infrastructure there is no point of bashing this dead horse any further. Thanks again, Tomas

This is yet another question you could have answered much more quickly yourself than writing another question on this list and waiting for someone else to perform that same search and reply. 5.3.x has been on the mirrors too long to remember: http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/leap/15.2/repo/oss/x86_64/

This is not necessarily true - where I stand, no target kernel was announced for SLE 15 SP2 or 15.2; 15.2 beta is planned for February 2020 - so, this may be still a placeholder to get the infrastructure going.

Why would it even matter? Whatever kernel gets selected for any SLE release gets loads and loads of backports to keep hardware support fairly current, so too the Leap kernel. If you need newer, select Tumbleweed instead of Leap.

Kernel matters for HW support and kernel features. Thumbleweed is not for everyone, if you need stable environment; for example - have a bunch of computers and/or any kind of semi-complex infrastructure and/or using commercial SW. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org

Le 15/12/2019 à 01:50, tomas.kuchta.lists@gmail.com a écrit :

This is getting out of the original topic - I woried about the health opensuse community/project as observed on opensuse.org

may be there are some difference from location, but when I go (from France) to http://www.opensuse.org, I get an updated page, that is the download is for 15.1, the present distro. Sure, many links are on the bottom of the page, and I don't like it (I would much like better to have them on top), but it was decided like this long ago after a long discussion, so I accept it. jdd -- http://dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 15/12/2019 15.06, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 15/12/2019 01.13, Felix Miata wrote:

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tomas.kuchta.lists@gmail.com composed on 2019-12-14 18:28 (UTC-0500):

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15.2 road map will be based on SLE 15 SP2 ==> the kernel choice will follow enterprise community <-- do we know the kernel version chosen already?

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This is yet another question you could have answered much more quickly yourself than writing another question on this list and waiting for someone else to perform that same search and reply. 5.3.x has been on the mirrors too long to remember: http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/leap/15.2/repo/oss/x86_64/

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Well,

that is confusing to me. I see 4.12.14, which is what I expected, but I also see several variants of 5.3.x. Why?

Is kernel 5.3 considered seriously for Leap 15.2? Why? How come?

I just read on factory mail list this ([opensuse-factory] New Tumbleweed snapshot 20191213 released!): +++........... Both Leap 15.2 and SLE15-SP2 will be based on 5.3 kernel. We know 5.4 became LTS, but we'd backport all needed patches by ourselves in anyway, so this wouldn't make much difference. thanks, Takashi ...........++- - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EARECAB0WIQQZEb51mJKK1KpcU/W1MxgcbY1H1QUCXfefmQAKCRC1MxgcbY1H 1UkDAJsEf3Em3gT9URxzgDiN/S2W9/KbXwCfargR2qiTkjMR5Y/qPFxR4y5roa0= =YgQR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 15/12/2019 13.35, Christian Boltz wrote:

Hello,

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If I may have one follow up question: 15.2 road map will be based on SLE 15 SP2 ==> the kernel choice will follow enterprise community <-- do we know the kernel version chosen already?

Besides Felix' answer, have a look at https://en.opensuse.org/Portal:Leap/Leap_kernel_version (can be found by searching for "Leap kernel" on en.opensuse.org)

LOL - I forgot about the page, and I wrote it :-D

BTW: don't look at the kernel version number too much - I sometimes joke that it's the only unpatched thing in the Leap kernels ;-)

:-) Maybe we should have a FAQ link on the entry page. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EARECAB0WIQQZEb51mJKK1KpcU/W1MxgcbY1H1QUCXfY5ZwAKCRC1MxgcbY1H 1VnlAKCMSNTKBw1bqrPBz0eLO6zpAKzDrgCbBN6si3BhEetdtYapttoO1kKfCaQ= =n86s -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 14/12/2019 23.00, Dave Howorth wrote:

On Sun, 15 Dec 2019 00:14:19 +0300 Andrei Borzenkov wrote:

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15.12.2019 00:03, tomas.kuchta.lists@gmail.com пишет:

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I am just worried about the project: * no news/announcements

I see regular announcements on both factory and announcement mailing lists.

To be fair, the question was about the website https://www.opensuse.org/ and not about other channels. There is the word NEWS part way down the page, but its not a link and there's no news under it.

The page was designed years ago, professionally I think, but it appears that nobody updates or cares for it. It is frozen. The "News" section is certainly empty.

If you say that's reasonable and continue looking you find an active link to https://news.opensuse.org/ at the bottom of the page but that seems to be a random blog page rather than an organized news page abot future plans. In particular the tags are not standardised, so if you got to the current first article 'GNOME, LLVM, Samba, Ruby Packages Update in Tumbleweed' and click on the tag for 'Leap 15.2' it shows you just that article. If instead you search the original news page for 15.2 you find there is just one more article that mentions 15.2 'KDE and openSUSE: Plasma 5.17, Qt 5.14 and more' and that uses a different tag :( !

So I'd agree with the OP that the website content is pretty poor.

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* 15.0 packages seems to be no longer updated, although 15.1 is still updated

Why do you expect updates for a version that is officially end of support?

There's nothing about 15.0 on the page, or about 15.2.

And, methinks the page can not be altered. ... - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EARECAB0WIQQZEb51mJKK1KpcU/W1MxgcbY1H1QUCXfY1KwAKCRC1MxgcbY1H 1WemAJ0dE42sKeHWaeCMFnqvvyA/p1jJkACfZjye82Fng/GmWQrclzuprz4VszQ= =rASV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org

* tomas.kuchta.lists@gmail.com [12-14-19 17:14]:

You enjoy this demeaning negativity Andrei, right? If you cannot or do not want to answer, please calm down and just leave it.

I come to opensuse.org for official info about the distribution - I do not find anything that unusual about that.

You maybe fed-up about hearing these questions - Obviously, if this would be published on opensuse.org people would not be posting these questions elsewhere.

I did not come here to argue or start a flaming war - I am genuinely asking question at the source. I am not interested reading through random nasty blog post flaming wars about which distro is better on a random gossip site.

If anyone can help to answer my worries please do. One or two informative sentences is enough - if you have first hand knowledge.

The last news I read on opensuse.org (beside some thumbleweed update) was about Richard Brown stepping down. I feel that there is a reason to be worried about opensuse if he is not replaced, there is no election coming, no news of new release (it used to be out this time of the year) and the project website looks abandoned.

Thanks again, Tomas

On Sun, 2019-12-15 at 00:14 +0300, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:

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15.12.2019 00:03, tomas.kuchta.lists@gmail.com пишет:

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I am just worried about the project: * no news/announcements

I see regular announcements on both factory and announcement mailing lists.

...

* 15.0 packages seems to be no longer updated, although 15.1 is still updated

Why do you expect updates for a version that is officially end of support?

...

* the kernel is pretty old in 15.1 .... no visible plans to update ithis

This has been beaten to death. Take time to search archives, really.

...

* will there will be openSuse 15.2, is it being developed? When?

OMG :( Did you try as much as google for "opensuse leap release schedule"? Did you look at factory mailing list where new Leap 15.2 builds are announced pretty regulary? Did you try as much as looking on download.opensuse.org? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org

you seem to have a problem top posting, no trimming and inattention to the point of apathy. a simple google search would satisfy all your questions and not show your pathetic attitude. no response necessary or expected. <plonk> -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org

Thanks everyone for all the answers and discussion. I appreciate your time, so little introduction. --------------------------------------------- I am personally using openSuSE since 7.0, coming from Solaris/SunOS. I used to run small engineering/scientific cluster based on SLE 9-12 for about 7 years until 2012. It involved the usual NIS/NFS/LDAP/grid manger/backup/disaster recovery. I am definitely not social media connected - I do not have the time - but I read a lot of technical cloud/IT stuff - openSuSE and SLE documentation is pretty good end there are excellent DevOps and cloud native resources available. As a user - I need modern Linux distro and recent LTS kernel for work and pleasure. It does not have to be bleeding edge, but needs to be aligned to computing HW release cycle. Alternate early spring, late autumn openSuSE releases with end of year kernel used to be the ideal choice for my needs. There used to be a lot of great enterprise IT quality solutions on SDB - perhaps it was easier to contribute them with the website account. These days, I workaround old-ish 4.12 kernel by riding multiple distros - using openSuSE mainly for infrastructure and in the clouds. Thumbeleweed is not for me - constantly breaking stuff - eats my precious time from the work/hobby I love - I also use commercial SW which mostly does not work in TW. I automate builds and deployments with ansible, so, upgrading yearly-ish is not a lot of trouble. Upgrading once per 3 years as with Ubuntu LTS, on the other hand is pain due to the volume of accumulated change. When 15.1 came out, I was traveling a lot for work, so I missed the switch - no news/reminder of 15.0 EOL made me wake up - leading to this post. I used to habitually check openSuSE web site for news every few weeks. It worked quite well and it was hubris free. This approach, obviously, does not work anymore - so I talked to Richard Brown about it in a conference 2 years ago and he recommended this relatively low traffic email list. I kind of hoped that over time, I would stumble on some little not to time taxing way of contributing back - beside filing reasonably good bug reports about things I feel are meaningful to the distro. In time, I would love to add persistent storage to installation iso to make it headless capable. And/Or contribute some of my hacks/improvements to RMT - that would be my cup a tea. So, far I did not find viable pathway in. Viable means - I need some basic introduction to be successful and fit within my time constraints. Hope this adds outside voice, Tomas -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org

On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 2:48 PM Carlos E. R. wrote:

The current system with Leap is that it is aligned to the enterprise version. This means that when they release version 16, openSUSE will do 16.0, and this is a major upgrade for the core. This happens every few years. Meanwhile there are minor upgrades, like 15.1, 15.2, 15.3, perhaps 15.4 or 16.0. Seems to be once a year. These minor upgrades seem to be easy and painless with zypper dup.

SUSE does not have "major" and "minor" upgrades. Every service pack is new version from technical point of view; there is no compatibility guarantees between service packs either. New major version is usually associated with product structure changes, not with amount of technical changes. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org

On 12/16/19 10:57 PM, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:

On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 2:48 PM Carlos E. R. wrote:

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The current system with Leap is that it is aligned to the enterprise version. This means that when they release version 16, openSUSE will do 16.0, and this is a major upgrade for the core. This happens every few years. Meanwhile there are minor upgrades, like 15.1, 15.2, 15.3, perhaps 15.4 or 16.0. Seems to be once a year. These minor upgrades seem to be easy and painless with zypper dup.

SUSE does not have "major" and "minor" upgrades. Every service pack is new version from technical point of view; there is no compatibility guarantees between service packs either. New major version is usually associated with product structure changes, not with amount of technical changes.

This is not strictly true, New SUSE major versions SLE-12/15/16 etc are branched from tumbleweed and the whole distro is new, on the other hand service packs are built on the previous SLE releases and there generally needs to be a good reason for us to update any package in a service pack, i'd also be surprised if you see many updates that would require changes to config in service packs there may be the odd occasion but its not common, where as for new major versions anything could happen. So from a technical point of view the way "Major" and "Minor" SLE releases are created are completely different, "Minor" Leap versions are different again because for anything that's not shared with SLE its up to the maintainer on whether they get updated. -- Simon Lees (Simotek) http://simotek.net Emergency Update Team keybase.io/simotek SUSE Linux Adelaide Australia, UTC+10:30 GPG Fingerprint: 5B87 DB9D 88DC F606 E489 CEC5 0922 C246 02F0 014B