On Fri, 13 Sep 2019 17:35:53 +0200 Hagen Buliwyf wrote:

Am 13.09.19 um 15:31 schrieb Hagen Buliwyf:

...

Dear list readers,

it's me again. As described in this post

https://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-support/2019-09/msg00048.html

i installed Tumbleweed with disabled "Install recommended packages"-option right from the beginning. With your help i finally succeeded to login to a plasma session successfully.

But - although i changed (on the very first screen of the installer) the language the system should be installed in to "German" - my system presents a really bizarre mix of german/english, e.g.:

When i press the right mouse button on the KDE starter button i get this menu

Edit Applications (German: "Menüeinträge bearbeiten") Configure Anwendungsmenü (German: "Anwendungsmenü einrichten ...) Show Alternatives (German: "Alternativen bearbeiten) Kontrollleiste Options (German: "Kontrollleiste-Optionen")

Similar effects can be seen in many applications as well.

So my question are:

The language selection is the very first decision to make in the installer. Even if the user decides NOT to install recommended packages, shouldn't all language packages required for the installed packages being installed as well?

This question still remains.

Although my knowledge of the english language is quite limited the english-german-mixed dialogs did not present an unsolvable problem to me.

But does it really make sense to present someone who selected let's say "Chinese" as her/his desired system language with english-chinese dialogs just because she/he decided to not install recommended packages?

...

I have checked my package list in yast and for every installed package i installed the corresponding -lang package (if there was one).

Shame on me!

No shame there. It seems clear to me that you're right. If you chose a German language interface early in the process, then the system is responsible for installing all the German language packages (but not the Indonesian ones) and you aren't. I don't remember whether you have already bug-reported this, but if not then I think you should do so.

I missed out a few packages (mainly libKF5*-lang ones). Now i do have (as far as i can see at the moment) a all-german user interface.

...

Still i have that language mix (e.g. in dolphin the menu is in english some submenus are in german others a mix of both languages). What additional package(s) must i install to get a desktop completely in german? (-lang-packages should be installed for every installed package!)

Regards

Hagen

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org

On Sat, 14 Sep 2019 11:56:08 +0200 Hagen Buliwyf wrote:

Am 13.09.19 um 21:40 schrieb Dave Howorth:

...

On Fri, 13 Sep 2019 17:35:53 +0200 Hagen Buliwyf wrote:

...

Am 13.09.19 um 15:31 schrieb Hagen Buliwyf:

...

Dear list readers,

it's me again. As described in this post

https://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-support/2019-09/msg00048.html

i installed Tumbleweed with disabled "Install recommended packages"-option right from the beginning. With your help i finally succeeded to login to a plasma session successfully.

But - although i changed (on the very first screen of the installer) the language the system should be installed in to "German" - my system presents a really bizarre mix of german/english, e.g.:

When i press the right mouse button on the KDE starter button i get this menu

Edit Applications (German: "Menüeinträge bearbeiten") Configure Anwendungsmenü (German: "Anwendungsmenü einrichten ...) Show Alternatives (German: "Alternativen bearbeiten) Kontrollleiste Options (German: "Kontrollleiste-Optionen")

Similar effects can be seen in many applications as well.

So my question are:

The language selection is the very first decision to make in the installer. Even if the user decides NOT to install recommended packages, shouldn't all language packages required for the installed packages being installed as well?

This question still remains.

Although my knowledge of the english language is quite limited the english-german-mixed dialogs did not present an unsolvable problem to me.

But does it really make sense to present someone who selected let's say "Chinese" as her/his desired system language with english-chinese dialogs just because she/he decided to not install recommended packages?

...

I have checked my package list in yast and for every installed package i installed the corresponding -lang package (if there was one).

Shame on me!

No shame there. It seems clear to me that you're right. If you chose a German language interface early in the process, then the system is responsible for installing all the German language packages (but not the Indonesian ones) and you aren't.

I don't remember whether you have already bug-reported this, but if not then I think you should do so.

Thanks for your answer to my post.

I'm not sure about this! Other people on this list told me that my understanding of the term "recommended" is wrong.

So i don't want to bother developers only because my knowledge of the english language is so bad.

Well, my opinion is that your understanding of 'recommended' is correct and I am a native English speaker. But 'recommends' is not relevant here, is it? You asked for a German language interface and you haven't been given it. I suggest that you do bug report it. That is the only way the devs will hear about the problem if it is a bug, and they can easily tell you if they think it isn't a bug.

...

...

I missed out a few packages (mainly libKF5*-lang ones). Now i do have (as far as i can see at the moment) a all-german user interface.

...

Still i have that language mix (e.g. in dolphin the menu is in english some submenus are in german others a mix of both languages). What additional package(s) must i install to get a desktop completely in german? (-lang-packages should be installed for every installed package!)

Regards

Hagen

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org

On Sat, 14 Sep 2019 17:22:58 +0100 Peter Suetterlin wrote:

Dave Howorth wrote:

...

Well, my opinion is that your understanding of 'recommended' is correct and I am a native English speaker. But 'recommends' is not relevant here, is it? You asked for a German language interface and you haven't been given it.

The thing is that 'recommends/requires' is a package thing. Asking for German Language is not a package, but a configuration option. So the only solution would be some meta-package that gets selected when you choose 'German', that then requires the lang-packages for installed (and only installed) packages.

I did say recommends wasn't relevant!?

How is this done/handled in other distributions?

Don't know. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org

14.09.19 16:47 - Dave Howorth:

On Sat, 14 Sep 2019 11:56:08 +0200 Hagen Buliwyf wrote:

...

Am 13.09.19 um 21:40 schrieb Dave Howorth:

...

On Fri, 13 Sep 2019 17:35:53 +0200 Hagen Buliwyf wrote:

...

Am 13.09.19 um 15:31 schrieb Hagen Buliwyf:

...

Dear list readers,

it's me again. As described in this post

https://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-support/2019-09/msg00048.html

i installed Tumbleweed with disabled "Install recommended packages"-option right from the beginning. With your help i finally succeeded to login to a plasma session successfully.

But - although i changed (on the very first screen of the installer) the language the system should be installed in to "German" - my system presents a really bizarre mix of german/english, e.g.:

When i press the right mouse button on the KDE starter button i get this menu

Edit Applications (German: "Menüeinträge bearbeiten") Configure Anwendungsmenü (German: "Anwendungsmenü einrichten ...) Show Alternatives (German: "Alternativen bearbeiten) Kontrollleiste Options (German: "Kontrollleiste-Optionen")

Similar effects can be seen in many applications as well.

So my question are:

The language selection is the very first decision to make in the installer. Even if the user decides NOT to install recommended packages, shouldn't all language packages required for the installed packages being installed as well?

This question still remains.

Although my knowledge of the english language is quite limited the english-german-mixed dialogs did not present an unsolvable problem to me.

But does it really make sense to present someone who selected let's say "Chinese" as her/his desired system language with english-chinese dialogs just because she/he decided to not install recommended packages?

...

I have checked my package list in yast and for every installed package i installed the corresponding -lang package (if there was one).

Shame on me!

No shame there. It seems clear to me that you're right. If you chose a German language interface early in the process, then the system is responsible for installing all the German language packages (but not the Indonesian ones) and you aren't.

I don't remember whether you have already bug-reported this, but if not then I think you should do so.

Thanks for your answer to my post.

I'm not sure about this! Other people on this list told me that my understanding of the term "recommended" is wrong.

So i don't want to bother developers only because my knowledge of the english language is so bad.

Well, my opinion is that your understanding of 'recommended' is correct and I am a native English speaker. But 'recommends' is not relevant here, is it? You asked for a German language interface and you haven't been given it.

I suggest that you do bug report it.

Here is my bug report ( i wash my hands of this :-) ): https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1150790

That is the only way the devs will hear about the problem if it is a bug, and they can easily tell you if they think it isn't a bug.

...

...

...

I missed out a few packages (mainly libKF5*-lang ones). Now i do have (as far as i can see at the moment) a all-german user interface.

...

Still i have that language mix (e.g. in dolphin the menu is in english some submenus are in german others a mix of both languages). What additional package(s) must i install to get a desktop completely in german? (-lang-packages should be installed for every installed package!)

Regards

Hagen

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org

* Knurpht-openSUSE [09-13-19 16:18]:

Op vrijdag 13 september 2019 15:31:23 CEST schreef Hagen Buliwyf:

...

Dear list readers,

it's me again. As described in this post

https://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-support/2019-09/msg00048.html

i installed Tumbleweed with disabled "Install recommended packages"-option right from the beginning. With your help i finally succeeded to login to a plasma session successfully.

But - although i changed (on the very first screen of the installer) the language the system should be installed in to "German" - my system presents a really bizarre mix of german/english, e.g.:

When i press the right mouse button on the KDE starter button i get this menu

Edit Applications (German: "Menüeinträge bearbeiten") Configure Anwendungsmenü (German: "Anwendungsmenü einrichten ...) Show Alternatives (German: "Alternativen bearbeiten) Kontrollleiste Options (German: "Kontrollleiste-Optionen")

Similar effects can be seen in many applications as well.

So my question are:

The language selection is the very first decision to make in the installer. Even if the user decides NOT to install recommended packages, shouldn't all language packages required for the installed packages being installed as well?

I have checked my package list in yast and for every installed package i installed the corresponding -lang package (if there was one). Still i have that language mix (e.g. in dolphin the menu is in english some submenus are in german others a mix of both languages). What additional package(s) must i install to get a desktop completely in german? (-lang-packages should be installed for every installed package!)

Regards

Hagen AFIACS this is directly related to not installing the recommends during install.

If "German language" was an option and was selected, the German lang packages should not be "recommended" but if available, "required". ie: a "Specification" is not an option or recomendataion but a requriement. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org

* Hagen Buliwyf [09-14-19 06:04]:

Am 13.09.19 um 23:09 schrieb Patrick Shanahan:

...

* Knurpht-openSUSE [09-13-19 16:18]:

...

Op vrijdag 13 september 2019 15:31:23 CEST schreef Hagen Buliwyf:

...

Dear list readers,

it's me again. As described in this post

https://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-support/2019-09/msg00048.html

i installed Tumbleweed with disabled "Install recommended packages"-option right from the beginning. With your help i finally succeeded to login to a plasma session successfully.

But - although i changed (on the very first screen of the installer) the language the system should be installed in to "German" - my system presents a really bizarre mix of german/english, e.g.:

When i press the right mouse button on the KDE starter button i get this menu

Edit Applications (German: "Menüeinträge bearbeiten") Configure Anwendungsmenü (German: "Anwendungsmenü einrichten ...) Show Alternatives (German: "Alternativen bearbeiten) Kontrollleiste Options (German: "Kontrollleiste-Optionen")

Similar effects can be seen in many applications as well.

So my question are:

The language selection is the very first decision to make in the installer. Even if the user decides NOT to install recommended packages, shouldn't all language packages required for the installed packages being installed as well?

I have checked my package list in yast and for every installed package i installed the corresponding -lang package (if there was one). Still i have that language mix (e.g. in dolphin the menu is in english some submenus are in german others a mix of both languages). What additional package(s) must i install to get a desktop completely in german? (-lang-packages should be installed for every installed package!)

Regards

Hagen AFIACS this is directly related to not installing the recommends during install.

If "German language" was an option and was selected, the German lang packages should not be "recommended" but if available, "required". ie: a "Specification" is not an option or recomendataion but a requriement.

That was what i thought as well.

But obviuosly (beeing no native english speaker) my interpretation of the term "recommended" is wrong.

in the selection for "German Language", I believe not. If one goes into a malt shop and orders a chocolate sunday and nothing else (ie: no recommends) , one still expects to receive the sunday in a container, not loose on the counter top. Opting for "German Language" in the menu should provide "German Language" and "no-recommends" should preclude "English Language" or any other "Language". the *mix* you received qualifies as a bug and deserves reporting. and if you do not, another will have the same problem and possibly the same discussion here. opting for "no-recommends" is not an absolution for failing to provide specific options/selections. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org

14.09.19 13:59 - Patrick Shanahan:

* Hagen Buliwyf [09-14-19 06:04]:

...

Am 13.09.19 um 23:09 schrieb Patrick Shanahan:

...

* Knurpht-openSUSE [09-13-19 16:18]:

...

Op vrijdag 13 september 2019 15:31:23 CEST schreef Hagen Buliwyf:

...

Dear list readers,

it's me again. As described in this post

https://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-support/2019-09/msg00048.html

i installed Tumbleweed with disabled "Install recommended packages"-option right from the beginning. With your help i finally succeeded to login to a plasma session successfully.

But - although i changed (on the very first screen of the installer) the language the system should be installed in to "German" - my system presents a really bizarre mix of german/english, e.g.:

When i press the right mouse button on the KDE starter button i get this menu

Edit Applications (German: "Menüeinträge bearbeiten") Configure Anwendungsmenü (German: "Anwendungsmenü einrichten ...) Show Alternatives (German: "Alternativen bearbeiten) Kontrollleiste Options (German: "Kontrollleiste-Optionen")

Similar effects can be seen in many applications as well.

So my question are:

The language selection is the very first decision to make in the installer. Even if the user decides NOT to install recommended packages, shouldn't all language packages required for the installed packages being installed as well?

I have checked my package list in yast and for every installed package i installed the corresponding -lang package (if there was one). Still i have that language mix (e.g. in dolphin the menu is in english some submenus are in german others a mix of both languages). What additional package(s) must i install to get a desktop completely in german? (-lang-packages should be installed for every installed package!)

Regards

Hagen AFIACS this is directly related to not installing the recommends during install.

If "German language" was an option and was selected, the German lang packages should not be "recommended" but if available, "required". ie: a "Specification" is not an option or recomendataion but a requriement.

That was what i thought as well.

But obviuosly (beeing no native english speaker) my interpretation of the term "recommended" is wrong.

in the selection for "German Language", I believe not. If one goes into a malt shop and orders a chocolate sunday and nothing else (ie: no recommends) , one still expects to receive the sunday in a container, not loose on the counter top. Opting for "German Language" in the menu should provide "German Language" and "no-recommends" should preclude "English Language" or any other "Language".

the *mix* you received qualifies as a bug and deserves reporting. and if you do not, another will have the same problem and possibly the same discussion here.

Here is my bug report ( i wash my hands of this :-) ): https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1150790

opting for "no-recommends" is not an absolution for failing to provide specific options/selections.

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org

14.09.19 23:03 - Felix Miata:

Hagen Buliwyf composed on 2019-09-14 16:38 (UTC-0400):

...

Here is my bug report ( i wash my hands of this :-) ):

https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1150790

QA/triage will consider that a report of two unrelated bugs, which is not allowed. I suggest you convert this bug to only the language issue, and change the summary accordingly.

Thank you for this hint. Please don't feel offended but i have a different perception on this: I did an installation and it resulted in a system that did not behave as i expected. I can neither tell whether my expectations are correct or not nor do i know for what reasons things went wrong (if they really went wrong). The description in that bugzilla report is an effort to describe what i did and what the results were. There is nothing more i can (and will) do at the moment.

No DM installed is probably an expected consequence of your choice to omit recommends, since those have no strict requirement, nor is xinit strictly required, AFAICT.

I did essentially the same thing some months ago, after some changes in basesystem and roles in the installer were made. All my installs in recent years are made with no-recommends.

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org

Hagen Buliwyf composed on 2019-09-14 23:29 (UTC+0200):

The description in that bugzilla report is an effort to describe what i did and what the results were. There is nothing more i can (and will) do at the moment.

Don't be surprised when nothing becomes of it other than closed INVALID or WONTFIX: "For all versions: When reporting a bug, please use one report for each defect you want to report. Using a single bug report to address several problems at once is a bad idea because it makes it difficult to track the progress on each item. Furthermore having separated issues in separated bug reports is a precondition to handle the issues independently because different issues usually require different people to get them analyzed and resolved." https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Submitting_bug_reports -- Evolution as taught in public schools is religion, not science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org

Am 13.09.19 um 22:14 schrieb Knurpht-openSUSE:

Op vrijdag 13 september 2019 15:31:23 CEST schreef Hagen Buliwyf:

...

Dear list readers,

it's me again. As described in this post

https://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-support/2019-09/msg00048.html

i installed Tumbleweed with disabled "Install recommended packages"-option right from the beginning. With your help i finally succeeded to login to a plasma session successfully.

But - although i changed (on the very first screen of the installer) the language the system should be installed in to "German" - my system presents a really bizarre mix of german/english, e.g.:

When i press the right mouse button on the KDE starter button i get this menu

Edit Applications (German: "Menüeinträge bearbeiten") Configure Anwendungsmenü (German: "Anwendungsmenü einrichten ...) Show Alternatives (German: "Alternativen bearbeiten) Kontrollleiste Options (German: "Kontrollleiste-Optionen")

Similar effects can be seen in many applications as well.

So my question are:

The language selection is the very first decision to make in the installer. Even if the user decides NOT to install recommended packages, shouldn't all language packages required for the installed packages being installed as well?

I have checked my package list in yast and for every installed package i installed the corresponding -lang package (if there was one). Still i have that language mix (e.g. in dolphin the menu is in english some submenus are in german others a mix of both languages). What additional package(s) must i install to get a desktop completely in german? (-lang-packages should be installed for every installed package!)

Regards

Hagen AFIACS this is directly related to not installing the recommends during install.

Yes, looks like my understanding of the english term "recommended" is not correct. Regards Hagen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org