Re: RE: [suse-security] UE draft on cybercrime
Legislation is not courtesy of the european council but of all of us.
There's more than a little suspect that this legislation is a brainchild of NSA, and that they are trying to impose this on Europe and all their other commercial partners, using methods ranging from "it's in your best interest" to "If you don't do this, then we won't do business with you because you're insecure". In the US they have (or are about pass) similar bills/laws, and a discussion like this one was made I think 1.5 years ago on the NTBugTraQ M/L. The nicest thing of the US proposed bill is that bugs and security deficiencies will be considered *Intellectual Property* of the program creator/distributor, and (under the DMCA) it can become illegal to disclose them publicy (as in "they can sue you out of business" if you disclose a weakness in a commercial program) IMHO, the day a similar bill passes and Micros^H^H^H^H^H^H big IT firms start to use it to silence the security people, it will be the start of the end for the Internet Age as we now know it, because in a matter of a few months all security firms and consultants will be out of business and the real black hat crackers will have easy access to all the "C2 security certifiable" systems that are out there. And after that, all hell will break loose... ;-) BTW, the fact that it's a european company is not my first reason to use SuSE, but it's quite up in the "list of reasons" I give to all the "why don't you use RedHat" people I know... ;-) Ciao, Roberto. P.S. The same problem (USA forcing on a more or less complacent/clueless EU council all their stupid laws) is a problem that doesn't afflict IT security only: from trade rules to consumer rihgts, in the last few years EU had a lot of fights with the US over a lot of things. And practically, they lost them all.
O know I kinda joked about the MS hack...But the scary thing is that the attack on MS will lend wait to this dumb treaty. Any chance this legislation could be MS sponsered? Who is actually the brainchild of this draconian document? Soemhow I just cannot see some old MEP in Brussles formulating this for obvious reasons. Matt On Friday 27 October 2000 06:43, r.maurizzi@gvs.it wrote:
Legislation is not courtesy of the european council but of all of us.
There's more than a little suspect that this legislation is a brainchild of NSA, and that they are trying to impose this on Europe and all their other commercial partners, using methods ranging from "it's in your best interest" to "If you don't do this, then we won't do business with you because you're insecure".
In the US they have (or are about pass) similar bills/laws, and a discussion like this one was made I think 1.5 years ago on the NTBugTraQ M/L. The nicest thing of the US proposed bill is that bugs and security deficiencies will be considered *Intellectual Property* of the program creator/distributor, and (under the DMCA) it can become illegal to disclose them publicy (as in "they can sue you out of business" if you disclose a weakness in a commercial program)
IMHO, the day a similar bill passes and Micros^H^H^H^H^H^H big IT firms start to use it to silence the security people, it will be the start of the end for the Internet Age as we now know it, because in a matter of a few months all security firms and consultants will be out of business and the real black hat crackers will have easy access to all the "C2 security certifiable" systems that are out there. And after that, all hell will break loose... ;-)
BTW, the fact that it's a european company is not my first reason to use SuSE, but it's quite up in the "list of reasons" I give to all the "why don't you use RedHat" people I know... ;-)
Ciao, Roberto.
P.S. The same problem (USA forcing on a more or less complacent/clueless EU council all their stupid laws) is a problem that doesn't afflict IT security only: from trade rules to consumer rihgts, in the last few years EU had a lot of fights with the US over a lot of things. And practically, they lost them all.
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It's all fairly standard stuff that the US law enforcement agencies have
been purveying for years.
Ummm... You know I don't think this is really SuSE security stuff.
Alan Lenton
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matthew Johnson"
O know I kinda joked about the MS hack...But the scary thing is that the attack on MS will lend wait to this dumb treaty.
Any chance this legislation could be MS sponsered? Who is actually the brainchild of this draconian document? Soemhow I just cannot see some old MEP in Brussles formulating this for obvious reasons.
Matt
It's all fairly standard stuff that the US law enforcement agencies have been purveying for years.
Ummm... You know I don't think this is really SuSE security stuff.
I would say it is when it'll make things like nmap and tcpdump illegal. Of course once the treaty passes there is still a large window before countries pass laws to actually implement it, but this treaty scares the bejezus out of me, lists like Linux-Security will also be illegal, and vendor advisories that show how to exploit a problem would also be illegal (my interpetation might be wrong, but the way the treaty is going ..... ).
Alan Lenton
-Kurt
HKAFA, (hi kurt and friends all) ---- Kurt Seifried wrote:
[snip...] I would say it is when it'll make things like nmap and tcpdump illegal. Of course once the treaty passes there is still a large window before countries pass laws to actually implement it, but this treaty scares the bejezus out of me, lists like Linux-Security will also be illegal, and vendor advisories that show how to exploit a problem would also be illegal (my interpetation might be wrong, but the way the treaty is going ..... ).
HUFF, scarying. My guess is that as much of those things, this one will blow away it self in not so long, and reapear on time, no doubt. Just to scare us, as on movies. Thrilling.
-Kurt
-- HTH Best regards, Eduardo Carriles [-- Better a smile than a flame --] (Long time SuSE-Linux [preferred distro] user). [-- Se me nota mucho? -- Notices me much?] [-- Have a lot of fun...]
participants (5)
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Alan Lenton -
Eduardo Carriles -
Kurt Seifried -
Matthew Johnson -
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