[opensuse-project] SUSE Studio drops 13.1
Gents, quite sad to hear that SUSE Studio drops openSUSE 13.1! As 13.1 is Evergreen AND the ast long-term 32bit openSUSE its worth keeping it! Sure, we have 13.2 at the start, but the 13.2 Studio template always caused more trouble than the 13.1 version.... Can we do something from the project side to keep 13.1? Cheers Axel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Dne 20.03.2016 v 18:59 Axel Braun napsal(a):
Gents,
quite sad to hear that SUSE Studio drops openSUSE 13.1!
As 13.1 is Evergreen AND the ast long-term 32bit openSUSE its worth keeping it! Sure, we have 13.2 at the start, but the 13.2 Studio template always caused more trouble than the 13.1 version....
Can we do something from the project side to keep 13.1?
Cheers Axel
Don't ask what openSUSE can do for you, ask what you can do for openSUSE. Cheers Martin
Am Sonntag, 20. März 2016, 19:24:43 schrieb Martin Pluskal:
Dne 20.03.2016 v 18:59 Axel Braun napsal(a):
Gents,
quite sad to hear that SUSE Studio drops openSUSE 13.1!
As 13.1 is Evergreen AND the ast long-term 32bit openSUSE its worth keeping it! Sure, we have 13.2 at the start, but the 13.2 Studio template always caused more trouble than the 13.1 version....
Can we do something from the project side to keep 13.1?
Cheers Axel
Don't ask what openSUSE can do for you, ask what you can do for openSUSE.
Sorry Martin, but thats a stupid one. What makes you piss against the wind? Unfortunately Studio is a commercial Novell-product, and community. Its quite frustrating to see that many people give hints to improve, but reaction is close to zero. Just an example: http://suse-studio-users.1598176.n2.nabble.com/Something-needs-to-be-done-tp... ..and this is not the only one.... Best, Axel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Dne 20.03.2016 v 19:39 Axel Braun napsal(a):
Am Sonntag, 20. März 2016, 19:24:43 schrieb Martin Pluskal:
Dne 20.03.2016 v 18:59 Axel Braun napsal(a):
Gents,
quite sad to hear that SUSE Studio drops openSUSE 13.1!
As 13.1 is Evergreen AND the ast long-term 32bit openSUSE its worth keeping it! Sure, we have 13.2 at the start, but the 13.2 Studio template always caused more trouble than the 13.1 version....
Can we do something from the project side to keep 13.1?
Cheers Axel
Don't ask what openSUSE can do for you, ask what you can do for openSUSE.
Sorry Martin, but thats a stupid one. What makes you piss against the wind? I beg your pardon?
Unfortunately Studio is a commercial Novell-product, and community. Its quite frustrating to see that many people give hints to improve, but reaction is close to zero. Exactly, why do you write about it at openSUSE project - you want openSUSE do do your biding and push SUSE to continue supporting retired distribution?
Just an example: http://suse-studio-users.1598176.n2.nabble.com/Something-needs-to-be-done-tp... And how much are you paying for studio support? With all due respect, you are getting something for free, using it and then complain. Are you willing to pay for some kind of extended support? Surprisingly both hardware and manpower is necessary to keep on building images.
It also reminds me of discussion about Evergreen, where again, with what I see as certain level of chutzpah you asked that people leave 13.1 enabled in devel project or that special new target, Evergreen is created. Which also leads to me questioning you involvement in openSUSE, apart from building your appliances on top of openSUSE, and using OBS for building packages, which never got to any release I don't see much of a contribution from your side. Regards MArtin
Le 20/03/2016 19:49, Martin Pluskal a écrit :
Dne 20.03.2016 v 18:59 Axel Braun napsal(a):
Gents,
quite sad to hear that SUSE Studio drops openSUSE 13.1!
As 13.1 is Evergreen AND the ast long-term 32bit openSUSE its worth keeping it! Sure, we have 13.2 at the start, but the 13.2 Studio template always caused more trouble than the 13.1 version....
Can we do something from the project side to keep 13.1?
Exactly, why do you write about it at openSUSE project - you want openSUSE do do your biding and push SUSE to continue supporting retired distribution?
Martin, reread the initial post (I quoted it to make this easy). It demanded very politely if we can do something, I see this as very legitimate. I don't know what you do to the project, not what Axel do, but have no reason to challenge that. It may be possible than the project can't do anything for studio, but studio being an application that build openSUSE, it could be a problem. anyway no reason to be harsh thanks jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Dne 20.03.2016 v 20:22 jdd napsal(a):
Le 20/03/2016 19:49, Martin Pluskal a écrit :
Dne 20.03.2016 v 18:59 Axel Braun napsal(a):
Gents,
quite sad to hear that SUSE Studio drops openSUSE 13.1!
As 13.1 is Evergreen AND the ast long-term 32bit openSUSE its worth keeping it! Sure, we have 13.2 at the start, but the 13.2 Studio template always caused more trouble than the 13.1 version....
Can we do something from the project side to keep 13.1?
Exactly, why do you write about it at openSUSE project - you want openSUSE do do your biding and push SUSE to continue supporting retired distribution?
Martin, reread the initial post (I quoted it to make this easy). It demanded very politely if we can do something, I see this as very legitimate. And my suggestion that instead of asking for help one should show more activity was not legitimate?
I don't know what you do to the project, not what Axel do, but have no reason to challenge that. It is a bit sad that you do not recall openSUSE board elections which happened few months ago.
It may be possible than the project can't do anything for studio, but studio being an application that build openSUSE, it could be a problem. For whom it would be problem? Honestly building 13.1 in studio is something that affects very small group of users.
anyway no reason to be harsh Perhaps you should say this to one who writes things like "but thats a stupid one. What makes you piss against the wind?"
Cheers Martin
Le 20/03/2016 20:40, Martin Pluskal a écrit :
And my suggestion that instead of asking for help one should show more activity was not legitimate?
no, it's not. You have no idea of what the OP do for openSUSE... (nor do I)
Perhaps you should say this to one who writes things like "but thats a stupid one. What makes you piss against the wind?"
don't attack if you don't want a reply... sorry jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Dne 20.03.2016 v 20:43 jdd napsal(a):
Le 20/03/2016 20:40, Martin Pluskal a écrit :
And my suggestion that instead of asking for help one should show more activity was not legitimate?
no, it's not. You have no idea of what the OP do for openSUSE... (nor do I)
Perhaps you should say this to one who writes things like "but thats a stupid one. What makes you piss against the wind?"
don't attack if you don't want a reply... Since when is paraphrasing a quote attack?
Cheers Martin
Dne 20.03.2016 v 19:49 Martin Pluskal napsal(a):
Dne 20.03.2016 v 19:39 Axel Braun napsal(a):
Am Sonntag, 20. März 2016, 19:24:43 schrieb Martin Pluskal:
Dne 20.03.2016 v 18:59 Axel Braun napsal(a):
Gents,
quite sad to hear that SUSE Studio drops openSUSE 13.1!
As 13.1 is Evergreen AND the ast long-term 32bit openSUSE its worth keeping it! Sure, we have 13.2 at the start, but the 13.2 Studio template always caused more trouble than the 13.1 version....
Can we do something from the project side to keep 13.1?
Cheers Axel
Don't ask what openSUSE can do for you, ask what you can do for openSUSE.
Sorry Martin, but thats a stupid one. What makes you piss against the wind? I beg your pardon?
Unfortunately Studio is a commercial Novell-product, and community. Its quite frustrating to see that many people give hints to improve, but reaction is close to zero. Exactly, why do you write about it at openSUSE project - you want openSUSE do do your biding and push SUSE to continue supporting retired distribution?
Just an example: http://suse-studio-users.1598176.n2.nabble.com/Something-needs-to-be-done-tp... And how much are you paying for studio support? With all due respect, you are getting something for free, using it and then complain. Are you willing to pay for some kind of extended support? Surprisingly both hardware and manpower is necessary to keep on building images.
It also reminds me of discussion about Evergreen, where again, with what I see as certain level of chutzpah you asked that people leave 13.1 enabled in devel project or that special new target, Evergreen is created.
Which also leads to me questioning you involvement in openSUSE, apart from building your appliances on top of openSUSE, and using OBS for building packages, which never got to any release I don't see much of a contribution from your side. Hi
I have checked OBS and I see that you maintain several packages, please accept my apology for questioning your contributions. Kind regards Martin
Am Sonntag, 20. März 2016, 22:05:06 schrieb Martin Pluskal:
Dne 20.03.2016 v 19:49 Martin Pluskal napsal(a):
Dne 20.03.2016 v 19:39 Axel Braun napsal(a):
Am Sonntag, 20. März 2016, 19:24:43 schrieb Martin Pluskal:
Dne 20.03.2016 v 18:59 Axel Braun napsal(a):
Gents,
quite sad to hear that SUSE Studio drops openSUSE 13.1!
As 13.1 is Evergreen AND the ast long-term 32bit openSUSE its worth keeping it! Sure, we have 13.2 at the start, but the 13.2 Studio template always caused more trouble than the 13.1 version....
Can we do something from the project side to keep 13.1?
Cheers Axel
Don't ask what openSUSE can do for you, ask what you can do for openSUSE.
Sorry Martin, but thats a stupid one. What makes you piss against the wind?
I beg your pardon?
Unfortunately Studio is a commercial Novell-product, and community. Its quite frustrating to see that many people give hints to improve, but reaction is close to zero.
Exactly, why do you write about it at openSUSE project - you want openSUSE do do your biding and push SUSE to continue supporting retired distribution?
I asked this question on all Studio forums as well.
Just an example: http://suse-studio-users.1598176.n2.nabble.com/Something-needs-to-be-done -tp7579637.html> And how much are you paying for studio support? With all due respect, you are getting something for free, using it and then complain. Are you willing to pay for some kind of extended support? Surprisingly both hardware and manpower is necessary to keep on building images.
I dont complain. I'm asking to keep it. Thats a difference.
It also reminds me of discussion about Evergreen, where again, with what I see as certain level of chutzpah you asked that people leave 13.1 enabled in devel project or that special new target, Evergreen is created.
Have you worked with the previous Evergreen, 11.4? Then you noticed that it was of limited value, as all additional software was removed from OBS. With the upcoming 13.1 Evergreen we had the opportunity to learn from the prior experience and make it better. That was the reason for asking. What was wrong on that?
Which also leads to me questioning you involvement in openSUSE, apart from building your appliances on top of openSUSE, and using OBS for building packages, which never got to any release I don't see much of a contribution from your side.
I have checked OBS and I see that you maintain several packages, please accept my apology for questioning your contributions.
I had already written an answer on that as your mail arrived. I accept your apologies, thanks. With this we should bury the dispute. Anyway, I want to explain my interest in the Evergreen build: Amongst other packages I'm maintaining GNU Health packages for openSUSE and the GNU Health Live CD on Studio. In this context I have explained the openSUSE tools and infrastructure to the community on various conferences. This has emphasised the perception of openSUSE as a user-friendly, stable and reliable platform. Many medical doctors in emerging countries have very 'mature' hardware, and no or very bad internet connection. A ready-to-run Live version -32bit! - can improve the IT support to their work dramatically. Currently a community member in Africa prepares a DVD with the 13.1 Live-Image to give it to african doctors. The initial edition will have 1000 copies To be able to support this in the future, I asked to keep the 13.1 build. Good night Axel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Am Sonntag, 20. März 2016, 22:05:06 schrieb Martin Pluskal:
Dne 20.03.2016 v 19:49 Martin Pluskal napsal(a):
Dne 20.03.2016 v 19:39 Axel Braun napsal(a):
Am Sonntag, 20. März 2016, 19:24:43 schrieb Martin Pluskal:
Dne 20.03.2016 v 18:59 Axel Braun napsal(a):
Gents,
quite sad to hear that SUSE Studio drops openSUSE 13.1!
As 13.1 is Evergreen AND the ast long-term 32bit openSUSE its worth keeping it! Sure, we have 13.2 at the start, but the 13.2 Studio template always caused more trouble than the 13.1 version....
Can we do something from the project side to keep 13.1?
Cheers Axel
Don't ask what openSUSE can do for you, ask what you can do for openSUSE.
Sorry Martin, but thats a stupid one. What makes you piss against the wind?
I beg your pardon?
Unfortunately Studio is a commercial Novell-product, and community. Its quite frustrating to see that many people give hints to improve, but reaction is close to zero.
Exactly, why do you write about it at openSUSE project - you want openSUSE do do your biding and push SUSE to continue supporting retired distribution?
I asked this question on all Studio forums as well.
Just an example: http://suse-studio-users.1598176.n2.nabble.com/Something-needs-to-be-done -tp7579637.html> And how much are you paying for studio support? With all due respect, you are getting something for free, using it and then complain. Are you willing to pay for some kind of extended support? Surprisingly both hardware and manpower is necessary to keep on building images.
I dont complain. I'm asking to keep it. Thats a difference.
It also reminds me of discussion about Evergreen, where again, with what I see as certain level of chutzpah you asked that people leave 13.1 enabled in devel project or that special new target, Evergreen is created.
Have you worked with the previous Evergreen, 11.4? Then you noticed that it was of limited value, as all additional software was removed from OBS. With the upcoming 13.1 Evergreen we had the opportunity to learn from the prior experience and make it better. That was the reason for asking. What was wrong on that? I understand, I am bit sensitive in this topic after watching and
Dne 20.03.2016 v 22:45 Axel Braun napsal(a): participating in several discussiong about openSUSE for 32 bit and Evergreen, where many stated that they want something, yet few if any were willing to do anything, and some members of community became annoyingly pushy. Anyway please also notice that in most devel projects, and definitely in projects where I am maintainer, 13.1 is still among build targets.
Which also leads to me questioning you involvement in openSUSE, apart from building your appliances on top of openSUSE, and using OBS for building packages, which never got to any release I don't see much of a contribution from your side.
I have checked OBS and I see that you maintain several packages, please accept my apology for questioning your contributions.
I had already written an answer on that as your mail arrived. I accept your apologies, thanks. With this we should bury the dispute.
Anyway, I want to explain my interest in the Evergreen build: Amongst other packages I'm maintaining GNU Health packages for openSUSE and the GNU Health Live CD on Studio. In this context I have explained the openSUSE tools and infrastructure to the community on various conferences. This has emphasised the perception of openSUSE as a user-friendly, stable and reliable platform.
Many medical doctors in emerging countries have very 'mature' hardware, and no or very bad internet connection. A ready-to-run Live version -32bit! - can improve the IT support to their work dramatically.
Currently a community member in Africa prepares a DVD with the 13.1 Live-Image to give it to african doctors. The initial edition will have 1000 copies
To be able to support this in the future, I asked to keep the 13.1 build.
That is indeed noble goal, as already mentioned kiwi might be of use here, as kiwi images can be build in OBS and 13.1 itself (as well as older release) are available there along necessary repositories/packages. Cheers Martin
Martin Pluskal - 19:24 20.03.16 wrote:
Dne 20.03.2016 v 18:59 Axel Braun napsal(a):
Gents,
quite sad to hear that SUSE Studio drops openSUSE 13.1!
As 13.1 is Evergreen AND the ast long-term 32bit openSUSE its worth keeping it! Sure, we have 13.2 at the start, but the 13.2 Studio template always caused more trouble than the 13.1 version....
Can we do something from the project side to keep 13.1?
Cheers Axel
Don't ask what openSUSE can do for you, ask what you can do for openSUSE.
I think that is what is he asking. AFAIK as already mentioned, probably nothing. Except buying SUSE Studio license, server and setting his own instance supporting old openSUSE. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On Sun, 20 Mar 2016 21:05:31 +0100, Michal Hrusecky wrote:
Martin Pluskal - 19:24 20.03.16 wrote:
Dne 20.03.2016 v 18:59 Axel Braun napsal(a):
Gents,
quite sad to hear that SUSE Studio drops openSUSE 13.1!
As 13.1 is Evergreen AND the ast long-term 32bit openSUSE its worth keeping it! Sure, we have 13.2 at the start, but the 13.2 Studio template always caused more trouble than the 13.1 version....
Can we do something from the project side to keep 13.1?
Cheers Axel
Don't ask what openSUSE can do for you, ask what you can do for openSUSE.
I think that is what is he asking. AFAIK as already mentioned, probably nothing. Except buying SUSE Studio license, server and setting his own instance supporting old openSUSE.
Something which is a non-trivial thing, both financially and configuration-wise. There is no good documentation for running a SUSE Studio onsite instance and creating your own builds - at least, there wasn't when I looked at it myself. I looked at doing that myself once upon a time, and the answers I got about how to set up for openSUSE builds were along the lines of "why would you want to do that when you can build SLE instead?". When I pushed on it, it was suggested that I use kiwi instead. I'll grant you that I was using an NFR license available through the technical subscriptions library (and thus an instance that was for my own personal educational use locally), but still, I was extremely disappointed at the lack of good documentation on how to configure SUSE Studio and the lack of assistance available to those who wanted to set up their own instance to build openSUSE appliances locally. Jim -- Jim Henderson Please keep on-topic replies on the list so everyone benefits -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On 2016-03-20 18:59, Axel Braun wrote:
Gents,
quite sad to hear that SUSE Studio drops openSUSE 13.1!
As 13.1 is Evergreen AND the ast long-term 32bit openSUSE its worth keeping it! Sure, we have 13.2 at the start, but the 13.2 Studio template always caused more trouble than the 13.1 version....
Can we do something from the project side to keep 13.1?
An alternative: You can build images using kiwi in the Build Service, export it from Studio and import it into OBS. You might need to update the repository setup in your kiwi file for this. Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger aj@{suse.com,opensuse.org} Twitter: jaegerandi SUSE LINUX GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GF: Felix Imendörffer, Jane Smithard, Graham Norton, HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Hi Axel, On Sonntag, 20. März 2016, 18:59:00 wrote Axel Braun:
quite sad to hear that SUSE Studio drops openSUSE 13.1!
As 13.1 is Evergreen AND the ast long-term 32bit openSUSE its worth keeping it! Sure, we have 13.2 at the start, but the 13.2 Studio template always caused more trouble than the 13.1 version....
Can we do something from the project side to keep 13.1?
do you have concrete images in mind or do you think about the general offering? While we remove the easy links to add 13.1 repos in OBS and Studio, you can add still add and build appliances for 13.1 afterwards in OBS. Christian Bruckmayer implemented also some first code lately to make it more easy to import kiwi configurations esp. from Studio into OBS. We will have a some howto in the next weeks for this .... have a nice evening adrian -- Adrian Schroeter email: adrian@suse.de SUSE Linux GmbH, GF: Felix Imendörffer, Jane Smithard, Graham Norton, HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstraße 5 90409 Nürnberg Germany -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Hi Adrian, Am Montag, 21. März 2016, 18:42:48 schrieb Adrian Schröter:
On Sonntag, 20. März 2016, 18:59:00 wrote Axel Braun:
quite sad to hear that SUSE Studio drops openSUSE 13.1!
As 13.1 is Evergreen AND the ast long-term 32bit openSUSE its worth keeping it! Sure, we have 13.2 at the start, but the 13.2 Studio template always caused more trouble than the 13.1 version....
Can we do something from the project side to keep 13.1?
do you have concrete images in mind or do you think about the general offering?
First of all a decent image...as written in the Project -list. I received some positive response (as PM) to the posting in the forum, but cant rate the percentage of users that would like to use it as well...
While we remove the easy links to add 13.1 repos in OBS and Studio, you can add still add and build appliances for 13.1 afterwards in OBS.
Christian Bruckmayer implemented also some first code lately to make it more easy to import kiwi configurations esp. from Studio into OBS.
We will have a some howto in the next weeks for this ....
Sounds similar to what Andreas suggested. After oSC last year I played with Kiwi-Export from machinery into Studio, with limited success. Kiwi is obviously not as handy as Studio :-) but if this is a way to survive, I'll look into this. Please let me know once it is around! Thanks Axel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On 03/22/2016 04:12 AM, Adrian Schröter wrote:
Hi Axel,
On Sonntag, 20. März 2016, 18:59:00 wrote Axel Braun:
quite sad to hear that SUSE Studio drops openSUSE 13.1!
As 13.1 is Evergreen AND the ast long-term 32bit openSUSE its worth keeping it! Sure, we have 13.2 at the start, but the 13.2 Studio template always caused more trouble than the 13.1 version....
Can we do something from the project side to keep 13.1?
do you have concrete images in mind or do you think about the general offering?
While we remove the easy links to add 13.1 repos in OBS and Studio, you can add still add and build appliances for 13.1 afterwards in OBS.
Christian Bruckmayer implemented also some first code lately to make it more easy to import kiwi configurations esp. from Studio into OBS.
We will have a some howto in the next weeks for this ....
have a nice evening adrian
Hi, I'm looking forward to the howto, last openSUSE release i was trying to deal with the opposite end of the spectrum and creating a live image from a openSUSE beta for testing enlightenment. Cheers Simon
participants (8)
-
Adrian Schröter -
Andreas Jaeger -
Axel Braun -
jdd -
Jim Henderson -
Martin Pluskal -
Michal Hrusecky -
Simon Lees