On Saturday 11 May 2013 14:20:01 Peter Czanik wrote:

Hello,

On 05/11/2013 01:55 PM, Jos Poortvliet wrote:

...

For example, the boothbox contents are being developed here: https://board.opensuse.org/projects/travel-support-program-management/wi ki/Booth_box Input welcome, of course.

OK. Just read it (well, most of it :-) ). So, I have a couple of questions:

- Here in Hungary I'm aware of four larger events for this year, and by local measures "larger" means 100+ visitors :-) Neither of them reach the magic 1k visitor number mentioned on the page, but the combined number is expected to be over 2k. What to do in this case?

For the first year, that means there won't be any materials from Nuremberg. However, you can use the travel program which has a Eur 100 budget per event to create things locally. Moreover, once the list I've created is more public we can discuss things like this. It might indeed make sense to send one box to Hungary, but then we have to ensure that the materials actually make it to these events. The goal is to try and get materials to several countries and get things to the right place within the country. We'll just have to focus - if you have seen the costs of the boxes (the small box would be over Eur 700, and shipping is usually about the same) I hope you understand we have only a limited number of them. We will have to be smart about it - and how to do that exactly we still have to figure out.

- Our next and largest event will be held in about a month (FSF Hungary Conference: http://konf.fsf.hu/ ). I ordered DVDs two months in advance just to learn last week, that they will never arrive. Can you send a "small box" on time (if at all)?

I doubt it, I'm sorry. We will hopefully begin ordering materials by the end of this month but I don't expect anything to be send out before the end of June... Also, we'll use the slowest shipment options to limit the costs so I don't think any event will have a box until after the openSUSE Conference. This all just takes a LOT of time and work. Also, the question is if the events in Hungary are on the list of events we will support the coming 12 months. This list contains the events from our ambassador event wiki [1] as well as the events I was told about when I asked (several times) on the ambassador and marketing lists for help with making the list. So again, travel committee has budget. Use it, please.

Bye, CzP

[1] http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Ambassadors_events

On Saturday 11 May 2013 17:53:05 Peter Czanik wrote:

Hello,

On 05/11/2013 04:15 PM, Jos Poortvliet wrote:

...

On Saturday 11 May 2013 14:20:01 Peter Czanik wrote:

...

Hello,

On 05/11/2013 01:55 PM, Jos Poortvliet wrote:

...

For example, the boothbox contents are being developed here: https://board.opensuse.org/projects/travel-support-program-management/ wi ki/Booth_box Input welcome, of course.

OK. Just read it (well, most of it :-) ). So, I have a couple of questions:

- Here in Hungary I'm aware of four larger events for this year, and by local measures "larger" means 100+ visitors :-) Neither of them reach the magic 1k visitor number mentioned on the page, but the combined number is expected to be over 2k. What to do in this case?

For the first year, that means there won't be any materials from Nuremberg. However, you can use the travel program which has a Eur 100 budget per event to create things locally.

Good news, but where is it documented? I could not find it in the wiki...

I noticed it got removed from the wiki. I suggest you ask the travel support team.

...

Moreover, once the list I've created is more public we can discuss things like this. It might indeed make sense to send one box to Hungary, but then we have to ensure that the materials actually make it to these events. I'm at all the major (and minor) Hungarian events, as I'm the community guy of syslog-ng. And I maintain close contact with the Hungarian openSUSE / LibreOffice developers and a few more "core" Hungarian openSUSE users, so I can find backups if I can't participate an event.

...

I doubt it, I'm sorry. We will hopefully begin ordering materials by the end of this month but I don't expect anything to be send out before the end of June...

OK, even with slowest shipment it would arrive on time for Software Freedom Day, the first event in the Autumn.

...

Also, we'll use the slowest shipment options to limit the costs so I

don't think any event will have a box until after the openSUSE Conference. This all just takes a LOT of time and work.

Also, the question is if the events in Hungary are on the list of events we will support the coming 12 months. This list contains the events from our ambassador event wiki [1] as well as the events I was told about when I asked (several times) on the ambassador and marketing lists for help with making the list.

By the time you asked, I did not know exact dates or which conferences will be held this year. Now I talked with organizers, so even if the websites are not yet updated and final dates published I know that they will be there. I added them to the wiki page with as much details as currently available.

Once our plans are more concrete I'll see if I can add it to the list of our events.

...

So again, travel committee has budget. Use it, please.

OK, just please point me to a "howto"!

See above - pls ask the travel support team. I'm not sure what the situation is with this. I can point to my blog announcing it: http://blog.jospoortvliet.com/2012/06/improved-support-for-events.html I hope it helps. Hugs, J

Thanks for your help Bye, CzP

I'm not sure about the periods of Local Coordinators, as I understood, there might be more than one Coordinator per area. Also as long as the coordinator is active, there should be no reason to cancel their coordination duties. I do agree on the TSP coordinators point. Cheers! On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 2:47 PM, Stathis Iosifidis (aka diamond_gr) wrote:

Στις 10/05/2013 08:43 μμ, ο/η Richard Brown έγραψε:

...

Hello Everyone,

After months of hard work and discussion, we're finally ready to make significant changes to the Ambassador programme.

The article at http://news.opensuse.org/2013/05/10/ambassadors-event-merchendise-all-change... goes into detail about what is changing and why, but to summarize

- Our openSUSE Ambassadors are being renamed to 'openSUSE Advocates', and the process is opened up so anyone can volunteer themselves as an Advocate without needing to be vetted by the Ambassador Welcome Team

- We're introducing a new role of 'Local Coordinator' and looking for volunteers. These local coordinators will be a designated point of contact for new openSUSE users/contributors who need help finding their way around the project, and also responsible for helping organize and report on the activities of the openSUSE Advocates in their area. Details and how to sign up can be found on the wiki: https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Local_Coordinator

- Also, changes are being made regarding the Merchandising for Events. Instead of boxes of PromoDVD's, specialised boxes full of high quality items, everything openSUSE Advocates need to fully equip a booth, are being put together. These will be shipped (by the openSUSE Team at SUSE) in advance of events. It's expected that our new Local Coordinators will be a big part of putting together a list of events so we will know which events need what materials.

We hope these changes are to everyone's liking. Please let us know what you think, and pardon any dust and rough edges while we transition from the old to the new

Regards,

Richard Brown openSUSE Board Member

Hello mates,

That program looks better. It'll work. A suggestion regarding Local Coordinator is every 1 or 2 years, the local community should decide the contact person for the next period (something similar to Ubuntu LoCo contact).

Maybe the same thing should be done with TSP coordinators since it's money involved. A proposal is to elect them during board elections. Anyways, that's just a thought.

Regards, Stathis

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hmmm now that I talking with a friend over here and I needed to translated to him to Portuguese the changes from Ambassador Program to Advocate Program and finally I found why this new name does not sound good for me, I mean, before now I just felling something strange about the new name, but now that I had to translated (pretty funny because is pretty much the same Portuguese and English for this word) I realize that Advocate could be not the best name to use for the new Program. I don't know in other languages but in Portuguese this make us remind about the laws, lawyers, ppl that work in justice, court.. and this new program name could be easily misunderstood or even worse could be a negative thing. "Why do I need to talk with openSUSE Advocate, I did nothing wrong, against the law I don't need a Advocate" I know Advocate is different word than lawyer but I'm luck Brazilian guy that is part of less then 2% of Brazilians that could communicate in English, very poor way, but I can eheh, sorry but this is true and really bad, and sad :( So as I know the Advocate is a false cognate in language rules, very few ppl know. Then this name could be a very negative name and a kind of barrier for us to get involved in opensource things here. I had not start to thing at any suggestion for the new name yet. But if you guys agree with me, we can start to think about new name. Maybe a pool at connect? Even if this false cognate word "Advocate" only happens and exist in Portuguese language I still believe that is enough to consider a different name to minimize and mitigate the risk of been misunderstood when we introduce our selfs as "openSUSE Advocates" or to not spend time explain why this name instead of spending time talking about projects, ideas, involvement, contributions... 2013/5/17 Jos Poortvliet :

On Monday 13 May 2013 16:28:20 Sebastian Oliva wrote:

...

I'm not sure about the periods of Local Coordinators, as I understood, there might be more than one Coordinator per area. Also as long as the coordinator is active, there should be no reason to cancel their coordination duties. I do agree on the TSP coordinators point.

I think the time limit is an interesting idea as it might make sure others have a chance to help, too. And giving the local community a say can be helpful, too. But for now - let's set it up and see where it goes :D

...

Cheers!

On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 2:47 PM, Stathis Iosifidis (aka diamond_gr)

wrote:

...

Στις 10/05/2013 08:43 μμ, ο/η Richard Brown έγραψε:

...

Hello Everyone,

After months of hard work and discussion, we're finally ready to make significant changes to the Ambassador programme.

The article at http://news.opensuse.org/2013/05/10/ambassadors-event-merchendise-all-c hange/ goes into detail about what is changing and why, but to summarize

- Our openSUSE Ambassadors are being renamed to 'openSUSE Advocates', and the process is opened up so anyone can volunteer themselves as an Advocate without needing to be vetted by the Ambassador Welcome Team

- We're introducing a new role of 'Local Coordinator' and looking for volunteers. These local coordinators will be a designated point of contact for new openSUSE users/contributors who need help finding their way around the project, and also responsible for helping organize and report on the activities of the openSUSE Advocates in their area. Details and how to sign up can be found on the wiki: https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Local_Coordinator

- Also, changes are being made regarding the Merchandising for Events. Instead of boxes of PromoDVD's, specialised boxes full of high quality items, everything openSUSE Advocates need to fully equip a booth, are being put together. These will be shipped (by the openSUSE Team at SUSE) in advance of events. It's expected that our new Local Coordinators will be a big part of putting together a list of events so we will know which events need what materials.

We hope these changes are to everyone's liking. Please let us know what you think, and pardon any dust and rough edges while we transition from the old to the new

Regards,

Richard Brown openSUSE Board Member

Hello mates,

That program looks better. It'll work. A suggestion regarding Local Coordinator is every 1 or 2 years, the local community should decide the contact person for the next period (something similar to Ubuntu LoCo contact).

Maybe the same thing should be done with TSP coordinators since it's money involved. A proposal is to elect them during board elections. Anyways, that's just a thought.

Regards, Stathis

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Greg Freemyer wrote:

On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 3:18 PM, Carlos Ribeiro wrote:

...

I realize that Advocate could be not the best name to use for the new Program. I don't know in other languages but in Portuguese this make us remind about the laws, lawyers, ppl that work in justice, court.. and this new program name could be easily misunderstood or even worse could be a negative thing.

"Why do I need to talk with openSUSE Advocate, I did nothing wrong, against the law I don't need a Advocate"

That may be a valid concern. I work with lawyers all the time, so I'm used to the word "advocate" being used routinely.

But I can't think of advocate being used by a high tech firms. You guys may not like it any better, but I have seen evangelist used a lot by high tech firms, so a openSUSE evangelist might be a reasonable alternative.

Having worked in such high tech firms during the internet bubble, to me "evangelist" implies a lot of marketing, bordering on bigotry :-(. I have no issue with "Advocate" (although it also means "lawyer" in my native language). To me, "Advocate" and "Ambassador" both have some connotations of being officially assigned. My favourite is "Geeko" as also proposed by Carlos. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (10.2°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - free DNS hosting, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

On 21 May 2013 15:54, Kostas Koudaras wrote:

If you are seriously thinking of a rename: What about openSUSE Jedi?

The problem with a pop-culture reference, is that it creates an inside joke, which kind of makes new entrants feel excluded.

Ok I am a Star Wars Fan but afterall, we are geeks...

That might not be a very reasonable assumption in the long run.

2013/5/21 Per Jessen :

...

Greg Freemyer wrote:

...

On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 3:18 PM, Carlos Ribeiro wrote:

...

"Why do I need to talk with openSUSE Advocate, I did nothing wrong, against the law I don't need a Advocate"

That may be a valid concern. I work with lawyers all the time, so I'm used to the word "advocate" being used routinely.

The use of "Advocate" might be controversial, as Carlos states, due to the associated legal implication. While Richard, as a native English speaker, has a very good point, as in we are intending to tell people that we advocate the use of openSUSE (distro ++) , and participation in openSUSE (project). The discomfort with evangelist is very understandable, because of the bad taste it leaves in the mouth for people who have encountered users of this label first-hand.

...

I have no issue with "Advocate" (although it also means "lawyer" in my native language). To me, "Advocate" and "Ambassador" both have some connotations of being officially assigned. My favourite is "Geeko" as also proposed by Carlos.

"Geeko", with it's association to openSUSE & Gecko, sonds like a reasonable choice. However, it says nothing about what the role entails. This might or might not be an issue. I personally wouldn't mind being associated with that label, but at the end of the day, it kind of means nothing. Advocate and Ambassador kind of mean the same thing in English for this use case, but Ambassador sounds kind of more approachable imho. While I understand most of the changes in the program, such as a new distribution system for DVDs/goodies, I fail to see why a name change would be necessary, especially when the new name has an identical meaning for all practical purposes. Also, I am curious why removing the vetting system was proposed/implemented. It was a very basic screening, and as there are actual costs involved in sending stuff to "Advocates", money that is obviously finite, this would mean we potentially have a system that cannot support itself. I understand that not all the Advocates will be sent event/DVD kits indiscriminately, but do we actually need unvetted labels for every person who tells others, "Use openSUSE"? The promoDVD request page doesn't have a requirement that anyone have an "official tag/post" anyway. IIRC, this wild west approach was tried in the early days of the Ambassador program, which resulted in an insanely long list of names on the wiki, with people that were never seen, or heard from. Isn't it exactly what we are trying to do all over again? TL;DR : Why change the name at all? Why remove vetting of list? If name is to be changed, "Geeko" sounds awesome, albeit irrelevant, and would get my vote. ~ kknundy P.S. Re-added marketing list. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

On 21 May 2013 10:11, Koushik Kumar Nundy wrote:

TL;DR : Why change the name at all? Why remove vetting of list? If name is to be changed, "Geeko" sounds awesome, albeit irrelevant, and would get my vote.

Why remove vetting? the original Ambassador programme had a confusing contradiction - As well as advocacy of our project and distro, our ambassadors were expected to be established contributors willing to mentor less experienced openSUSE users. The advocacy was seen as a great way of starting out with the Project and contributing for the first time, where as the mentoring and local coordination work *requires* the individual has been involved in the Project for some time in order to know their way around and effectively help others. This contradiction made life very difficult for the Ambassador Welcome team (on which I served) - we'd have people applying to be Ambassadors who had practically no experience with the Project and would therefore not be capable of any form of mentoring or local organisation, but because of the dual-role nature of Ambassadors we'd rubber stamp them anyway. It lead to a situation where we had lots of Ambassadors on the list, some doing great local coordination work and mentoring, many more doing great advocacy, and sadly also a significant amount who signed up but never actually did anything for the Project. The removal of vetting and the focus of the Ambassador programme on advocacy, make it clear its a viable way for new contributors to get started with the Project, and also to better reflect the general nature of the project - Advocating openSUSE is another job that this project needs doing, like Development, Marketing, Artwork, etc. We don't require people to pass through some vetting scheme to get involved in any of those roles in the project, we want to encourage them to roll up their sleeves and pitch in, and make it as easy as possible for them to do so. The mentoring and local organisation functions that were formerly expected of the Ambassadors now sit firmly with the new Local Coordinator role. That's somewhere where we definitely need everyone involved to be established community members. Luckily, openSUSE already has a programme for establishing whether or not someone has provided sustained and substantial contributions to the community, that's the openSUSE Members scheme, so as I'm going through the process of pulling together our new Local Coordinator volunteers, I'm primarily only considering those volunteers who are already openSUSE members. Where a Local Coordinator volunteer isn't a member, but has substantial contributions to the project, I'm encouraging them to apply for membership first - I dont think we need two schemes to recognise and reward our established contributor base. As for changing the name - I thought I'd made that clear already. I feel that Ambassador is a title that carries too much gravitas and assumptions that the person holding the title was assigned the role, and is empowered to speak on behalf of the project. That's not the role of those advocating/evangelising/promoting our project and distro, and Advocate is the best word I could find in the English language to reflect that. If a direct translation doesn't work in the other languages of our project, I'm more than happy to discuss and help find one that better suits your language but still reflects the activities we expect from our openSUSE Advocates. I think Jim's already done a good job with this for Portuguese I dont think changing the name in the English language is a sensible option, and I'm dead set against the idea of titles like 'Geeko' which, while amusing and meaningful to established openSUSE users, is meaningless to those who dont know anything about our project or distro - the very people our Advocates are meant to be reaching out to.. Hope this helps - Richard -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

The reason I pick Geeko is that it is openSUSE and you are right a member of the community. A lot of us call ourselves Geeko, I even did a video with Ambassador filming themselves and stating that. I am hearing from a lot of member of my local LUG that *buntu uses the title of Advocate, that it seem we are trying to copy them. Which was the same thing I heard from the Fedora Users when we using the term Ambassador. So choose any title any be the same as another distro. So the title shouldn't really matter. It was the person does that matters. I am for any that means a person that is willing to go out mentor new users, promote the advancement of openSUSE. The last fours years here has been a long and twisted road for me, but I have gain a lot of friends and new users. I have been like a ambassador because now I have a lot Linux friends who work on Fedora, Ubuntu and Slackware. Ambassador/Advocate/Geeko/Mentor what ever anyone wants to call themselves, need to remember that they need to be active. As you point out Richard, a lot people signed up and a lot a people didn't do anything. That really does hurt us in the long run. If the word that Jim pick is close and has better meaning, then by all means, lets use it. I know that words have different mean. I don't know how many words in English has bad meaning in other culture. I have lived in Japan. My wife is Azerbiajan and she speaks Turkish and Russian . I have many friends here from college at are Malay. If even want a list of what not English words not to say in what culture. Ask me, I know quite a few. In fact I have a very funny story about children book, "Three Little Pigs" and how I almost lost my job in Japan. It not for mix company. So lets focus on keep the program active. Doing what we set out to do from the beginning. To Advocate. To be not in title anymore, but Ambassador of good will. To mentor new users. To promote openSUSE. Give back to the community by helping anyway we can. And remember what our distro Message of the Day says. "Have Fun!" . Yours Truly, Terrorpup Advocate/Geeko/Mentor/Ambassador/openSUSE Biggest Fan. :-) On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 7:00 AM, Per Jessen wrote:

Koushik Kumar Nundy wrote:

...

On 21 May 2013 15:54, Kostas Koudaras wrote:

...

If you are seriously thinking of a rename: What about openSUSE Jedi?

The problem with a pop-culture reference, is that it creates an inside joke, which kind of makes new entrants feel excluded.

...

Ok I am a Star Wars Fan but afterall, we are geeks...

That might not be a very reasonable assumption in the long run.

Yeah, my 9-year old boy is much into Starwars, for myself it was good entertainment, but 20+ years ago :-)

-- Per Jessen, Zürich (11.7°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - free DNS hosting, made in Switzerland.

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-- Terror PUP a.k.a Chuck "PUP" Payne (678) 636-9678 ----------------------------------------- Discover it! Enjoy it! Share it! openSUSE Linux. ----------------------------------------- openSUSE -- en.opensuse.org/User:Terrorpup openSUSE Ambassador/openSUSE Member Community Manager -- Southeast Linux Foundation (SELF) skype,twiiter,identica,friendfeed -- terrorpup freenode(irc) --terrorpup/lupinstein Register Linux Userid: 155363 Have you tried SUSE Studio? Need to create a Live CD, an app you want to package and distribute , or create your own linux distro. Give SUSE Studio a try. www.susestudio.com. See you at Southeast Linux Fest, June 7-9, 2013 in Charlotte, NC. www.southeastlinuxfest.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 3:11 AM, Koushik Kumar Nundy wrote:

On 21 May 2013 15:54, Kostas Koudaras wrote:

...

If you are seriously thinking of a rename: What about openSUSE Jedi?

The problem with a pop-culture reference, is that it creates an inside joke, which kind of makes new entrants feel excluded.

...

Ok I am a Star Wars Fan but afterall, we are geeks...

That might not be a very reasonable assumption in the long run.

...

2013/5/21 Per Jessen :

...

Greg Freemyer wrote:

...

On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 3:18 PM, Carlos Ribeiro wrote:

...

"Why do I need to talk with openSUSE Advocate, I did nothing wrong, against the law I don't need a Advocate"

That may be a valid concern. I work with lawyers all the time, so I'm used to the word "advocate" being used routinely.

The use of "Advocate" might be controversial, as Carlos states, due to the associated legal implication. While Richard, as a native English speaker, has a very good point, as in we are intending to tell people that we advocate the use of openSUSE (distro ++) , and participation in openSUSE (project).

The discomfort with evangelist is very understandable, because of the bad taste it leaves in the mouth for people who have encountered users of this label first-hand.

...

...

I have no issue with "Advocate" (although it also means "lawyer" in my native language). To me, "Advocate" and "Ambassador" both have some connotations of being officially assigned. My favourite is "Geeko" as also proposed by Carlos.

"Geeko", with it's association to openSUSE & Gecko, sonds like a reasonable choice. However, it says nothing about what the role entails. This might or might not be an issue. I personally wouldn't mind being associated with that label, but at the end of the day, it kind of means nothing.

Advocate and Ambassador kind of mean the same thing in English for this use case, but Ambassador sounds kind of more approachable imho. While I understand most of the changes in the program, such as a new distribution system for DVDs/goodies, I fail to see why a name change would be necessary, especially when the new name has an identical meaning for all practical purposes.

Also, I am curious why removing the vetting system was proposed/implemented. It was a very basic screening, and as there are actual costs involved in sending stuff to "Advocates", money that is obviously finite, this would mean we potentially have a system that cannot support itself. I understand that not all the Advocates will be sent event/DVD kits indiscriminately, but do we actually need unvetted labels for every person who tells others, "Use openSUSE"? The promoDVD request page doesn't have a requirement that anyone have an "official tag/post" anyway. IIRC, this wild west approach was tried in the early days of the Ambassador program, which resulted in an insanely long list of names on the wiki, with people that were never seen, or heard from. Isn't it exactly what we are trying to do all over again?

TL;DR : Why change the name at all? Why remove vetting of list? If name is to be changed, "Geeko" sounds awesome, albeit irrelevant, and would get my vote.

~ kknundy

P.S. Re-added marketing list. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

I believe the use of the word "advocate" is appropriate for the new idea of making oneself a promoter of openSUSE through the ambassador program. I believe the "legal" implication is mostly a personal link to the English language. In essence, the problem is not with the word but with a personal understanding of the word. When I first heard the word "advocate" the first thought that came to me was "good!because ambassador does not really fit the role of promoting openSUSE." If you think about it the word "advocate" is a more philosophically linked word to the idea of defense or apologetics. Most of the times, in English, when referring to a professional who does advocacy is "lawyer." Lawyer is the most common word used to describe those who practice legal advocacy. -- Andy (anditosan) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

On Tue, 21 May 2013 10:54:35 +0300, Kostas Koudaras wrote:

What about openSUSE Jedi?

Oh, yeah, George Lucas isn't overprotective of his brands at all (and neither are Disney). No chance of them coming after us with some sort of intellectual property suit and a demand for royalties. ;) Jim -- Jim Henderson Please keep on-topic replies on the list so everyone benefits -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Jim, I really understand and respect your points, but I still believing that we MUST avoid false cognates. this is not related with "playing words" like "No va" car name in portugues that as you said means "dont go" well not really becuase "don't go in portuguese in "Nao Va" and not "No va", but still been funny "playing words". False cognate is different it's a natural language rule that ppl usualy avoid to use to mitigate risks of confusion. 2013/5/20 Jim Henderson :

On Mon, 20 May 2013 16:18:40 -0300, Carlos Ribeiro wrote:

...

"Why do I need to talk with openSUSE Advocate, I did nothing wrong, against the law I don't need a Advocate"

Try "Defensor" instead of "Advogado". From what Google Translate tells me, "Defensor" is an accurate representation of the meaning in English that does not have to do with legal matters. Synonyms that are relevant would be "defender, champion, protector".

One could very easily argue that any word that's picked in any language might have not the exact precise meaning in mind - but IMHO has long as it isn't a "Nova" mistake[1], it's not really worth the energy to search further.

Jim

[1] "Nova" was a brand of car, the name in Spanish (if read as "no va") translates literally to "it doesn't go". Not a great name for a car. -- Jim Henderson Please keep on-topic replies on the list so everyone benefits

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On 20 May 2013 21:09, Jim Henderson wrote:

Hence my suggestion at an alternate word in Portuguese that seems to mean what Richard means with the word "Advocate".

Or, OK, we pick a different word because "Advocate" is too close to "Advocator" in Portuguese. So the next word we pick is a word that means "total bastard" in some other language, and we have the debate again.

Does it /really/ make sense to look for something because "Advocate" is too close to the Portuguese for "Lawyer", when it's easily worked around by referring to the program as the "openSUSE Defensor" program in Portuguese? Or when the page for the Advocate program explains that we're not talking about *lawyers* here, but talking about *advocates*?

I would like to suggest we go with Jim's suggestion. The name openSUSE Advocate was chosen after a long debate with a fair number of people, and ultimately was decided collectively by the Board at our recent Face to Face meeting. Many of the other names suggested in this thread were considered - openSUSE Evangelist was my original favorite until the obvious religious connotations eliminated it. I understand that whatever word we may have chosen wouldn't work in every language, and I think it's perfectly reasonably for our local communities to translate the title suitably for their language. We already have many of our Greek openSUSE Advocates calling themselves Greekos for example For anyone wondering why we're changing the name at all, I really wanted to eliminate many of the connotations that the title 'Ambassador' brings. Ambassadors are typically an official assigned role, someone chosen to speak for whoever they're representing. This isn't really the intent of our openSUSE Advocacy program, which is meant to encourage people to step up, volunteer and advocate/encourage/promote the use of openSUSE, and in return get whatever tools and support the openSUSE project can provide them to help them spread the word about our Project. I felt it was important that the new title do a much better job of accurately reflecting the job our Advocates do and the fact they step up to do it, not assigned into the role. And despite the feedback to the contrary, I still feel it is the best title for the programme, and would rather we find a more elegant solution for any languages where it doesn't translate as well. Hope this clears this up a little for everyone - Richard Brown openSUSE Board Member -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

On 05/20/2013 09:18 PM, Carlos Ribeiro wrote:

hmmm now that I talking with a friend over here and I needed to translated to him to Portuguese the changes from Ambassador Program to Advocate Program and finally I found why this new name does not sound good for me, I mean, before now I just felling something strange about the new name, but now that I had to translated (pretty funny because is pretty much the same Portuguese and English for this word) I realize that Advocate could be not the best name to use for the new Program. I don't know in other languages but in Portuguese this make us remind about the laws, lawyers, ppl that work in justice, court.. and this new program name could be easily misunderstood or even worse could be a negative thing.

"Why do I need to talk with openSUSE Advocate, I did nothing wrong, against the law I don't need a Advocate"

I know Advocate is different word than lawyer but I'm luck Brazilian guy that is part of less then 2% of Brazilians that could communicate in English, very poor way, but I can eheh, sorry but this is true and really bad, and sad :(

So as I know the Advocate is a false cognate in language rules, very few ppl know. Then this name could be a very negative name and a kind of barrier for us to get involved in opensource things here.

I had not start to thing at any suggestion for the new name yet. But if you guys agree with me, we can start to think about new name. Maybe a pool at connect?

Even if this false cognate word "Advocate" only happens and exist in Portuguese language I still believe that is enough to consider a different name to minimize and mitigate the risk of been misunderstood when we introduce our selfs as "openSUSE Advocates" or to not spend time explain why this name instead of spending time talking about projects, ideas, involvement, contributions...

imho, the word to use in English is advocate--but it is understood to not be associated with any legal meaning... but, if troublesome you do not have to use advocate as the basis for your translation, because (i guess you know) the meaning of the word advocate as it is used is captured in these following other words....so, use one of them as the basis for translating to a Portuguese word that has nothing to do with courts, lawyers, laws or anything else which gives you pause: proponent promoter supporter champion evangelist (but easily confused with a religious undertaking) ymmv dd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

openSUSE Dedicated Specialist openSUSE Specialist Team openSUSE Reps (like Mozilla Rep's) openSUSE Geekos and Lizards (Geekos for Local Coordinators and Lizards as substitute of Ambassadors) openSUSE Promoters (hmm i don't know but still been better than Advocate) openSUSE Project Specialist (OPS) openSUSE Impact Team (OIT) openSUSE Proud openSUSE Mentors openSUSE Global Mentors ... don't know yet, I just started to think about new possible names right now. But I also finished to think about as I still don't know if Richard and others Members enjoy and agree to change the name, so for while is not time to spend too much thinking about that. at least for me that have other priorities like oSC13 but the main idea is here.. think and share my concerns about the name before Program has been finished and impossible or at least more hard and difficult to chance in near future 2013/5/20 DenverD :

On 05/20/2013 09:18 PM, Carlos Ribeiro wrote:

...

hmmm now that I talking with a friend over here and I needed to translated to him to Portuguese the changes from Ambassador Program to Advocate Program and finally I found why this new name does not sound good for me, I mean, before now I just felling something strange about the new name, but now that I had to translated (pretty funny because is pretty much the same Portuguese and English for this word) I realize that Advocate could be not the best name to use for the new Program. I don't know in other languages but in Portuguese this make us remind about the laws, lawyers, ppl that work in justice, court.. and this new program name could be easily misunderstood or even worse could be a negative thing.

"Why do I need to talk with openSUSE Advocate, I did nothing wrong, against the law I don't need a Advocate"

I know Advocate is different word than lawyer but I'm luck Brazilian guy that is part of less then 2% of Brazilians that could communicate in English, very poor way, but I can eheh, sorry but this is true and really bad, and sad :(

So as I know the Advocate is a false cognate in language rules, very few ppl know. Then this name could be a very negative name and a kind of barrier for us to get involved in opensource things here.

I had not start to thing at any suggestion for the new name yet. But if you guys agree with me, we can start to think about new name. Maybe a pool at connect?

Even if this false cognate word "Advocate" only happens and exist in Portuguese language I still believe that is enough to consider a different name to minimize and mitigate the risk of been misunderstood when we introduce our selfs as "openSUSE Advocates" or to not spend time explain why this name instead of spending time talking about projects, ideas, involvement, contributions...

imho, the word to use in English is advocate--but it is understood to not be associated with any legal meaning...

but, if troublesome you do not have to use advocate as the basis for your translation, because (i guess you know) the meaning of the word advocate as it is used is captured in these following other words....so, use one of them as the basis for translating to a Portuguese word that has nothing to do with courts, lawyers, laws or anything else which gives you pause:

proponent promoter supporter champion evangelist (but easily confused with a religious undertaking)

ymmv

dd

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Hi Carlos, On 05/20/2013 04:17 PM, Carlos Ribeiro wrote:

openSUSE Dedicated Specialist openSUSE Specialist Team openSUSE Reps (like Mozilla Rep's) openSUSE Geekos and Lizards (Geekos for Local Coordinators and Lizards as substitute of Ambassadors) openSUSE Promoters (hmm i don't know but still been better than Advocate) openSUSE Project Specialist (OPS) openSUSE Impact Team (OIT) openSUSE Proud openSUSE Mentors openSUSE Global Mentors ... don't know yet, I just started to think about new possible names right now. But I also finished to think about as I still don't know if Richard and others Members enjoy and agree to change the name, so for while is not time to spend too much thinking about that. at least for me that have other priorities like oSC13

but the main idea is here.. think and share my concerns about the name before Program has been finished and impossible or at least more hard and difficult to chance in near future

We do share your concern about being sensitive to the local cultures. However, as has been pointed out, there probably is no word that expresses the goals of the program that does not have some odd local connotation or idiom in any given language. For better or worse, a large percentage of communication occurs in English and in the English language the word Advocate expresses the goals of the program exceptionally well. As suggested in this thread, for translation purposes it is much better to focus on the meaning behind the word rather than the word itself. Thus, if you are working on a translation it might be better suited to use the word "promoter" as the basis of the translation to Portuguese. We appreciate that you raised these concerns and I believe, based on the responses to the thread, everyone is sensitive to the issue. At the same time there have been a lot of discussions about the name and we should not clear the slate when there are alternatives to working around the problem that is created by a local connotation/idiom. Regards, Robert -- Robert Schweikert MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU SUSE-IBM Software Integration Center LINUX Tech Lead rjschwei@suse.com rschweik@ca.ibm.com 781-464-8147 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org