[opensuse-project] Formally resigning my openSUSE membership

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Re: [opensuse-project] Re: Board...

Bryan Lunduke

26 Aug 2018 26 Aug '18

02:27

To the openSUSE community, There are so many wonderful, inspiring projects and communities in the broader Free Software world -- that it makes little sense for me to remain a member of one where the leadership personally attacks those who suggest simple notions such as "let's be more transparent" (an implied criticism that is as much about my own failings, as a past Board Member, as anyone). The responses received from some openSUSE Board members were profane, rude, slanderous... and just plain not nice. I have many friends in this community -- a community that has done some truly exceptional work. Many of you have *much* to be proud of. And I will do my best to not let the words and actions of some of the Board impact my views of the good work that you have done and, I hope, will do in the future. For the technology you have produced -- and the friendship you have shared -- I will always be in your debt. That said, the Board has created a negative, cruel atmosphere that I do not want any part of. Perhaps one day that will change but, for now, it is time to separate myself entirely and to focus on the communities with much less hate; To surround myself with love, instead. I do not expect any other people to take this action -- nor do I wish this to cause any additional unhappiness or conflict among the community. It is simply an action I must take, and I want my thoughts (whether any agree with them or not) to be stated. I request that I be removed from the openSUSE membership list. I will unsubscribe myself from the various mailing lists this evening. I wish you all (and I do mean *all*) the very best. -Bryan Lunduke -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

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hellcp＠opensuse.org

26 Aug 26 Aug

05:34

Hi,

...

To the openSUSE community,

There are so many wonderful, inspiring projects and communities in the broader Free Software world -- that it makes little sense for me to remain a member of one where the leadership personally attacks those who suggest simple notions such as "let's be more transparent" (an implied criticism that is as much about my own failings, as a past Board Member, as anyone).

The responses received from some openSUSE Board members were profane, rude, slanderous... and just plain not nice.

I have many friends in this community -- a community that has done some truly exceptional work. Many of you have *much* to be proud of. And I will do my best to not let the words and actions of some of the Board impact my views of the good work that you have done and, I hope, will do in the future. For the technology you have produced -- and the friendship you have shared -- I will always be in your debt.

That said, the Board has created a negative, cruel atmosphere that I do not want any part of. Perhaps one day that will change but, for now, it is time to separate myself entirely and to focus on the communities with much less hate; To surround myself with love, instead.

I do not expect any other people to take this action -- nor do I wish this to cause any additional unhappiness or conflict among the community. It is simply an action I must take, and I want my thoughts (whether any agree with them or not) to be stated.

I request that I be removed from the openSUSE membership list. I will unsubscribe myself from the various mailing lists this evening.

I wish you all (and I do mean *all*) the very best.

While I feel like we could have done a better job on the front of last conversations on mailing lists, it was certainly nice and valuable to have you as one of us. I wish you good luck with other open source projects, and I hope to see you around openSUSE in the future despite of the differences that we share. LCP [Stasiek] https://lcp.world -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

09:53

On 08/26/2018 04:27 AM, Bryan Lunduke wrote:

...

To the openSUSE community,

There are so many wonderful, inspiring projects and communities in the broader Free Software world -- that it makes little sense for me to remain a member of one where the leadership personally attacks those who suggest simple notions such as "let's be more transparent" (an implied criticism that is as much about my own failings, as a past Board Member, as anyone).

The responses received from some openSUSE Board members were profane, rude, slanderous... and just plain not nice.

I have many friends in this community -- a community that has done some truly exceptional work. Many of you have *much* to be proud of. And I will do my best to not let the words and actions of some of the Board impact my views of the good work that you have done and, I hope, will do in the future. For the technology you have produced -- and the friendship you have shared -- I will always be in your debt.

That said, the Board has created a negative, cruel atmosphere that I do not want any part of. Perhaps one day that will change but, for now, it is time to separate myself entirely and to focus on the communities with much less hate; To surround myself with love, instead.

I do not expect any other people to take this action -- nor do I wish this to cause any additional unhappiness or conflict among the community. It is simply an action I must take, and I want my thoughts (whether any agree with them or not) to be stated.

I request that I be removed from the openSUSE membership list. I will unsubscribe myself from the various mailing lists this evening.

I wish you all (and I do mean *all*) the very best.

-Bryan Lunduke

I'm very sorry to hear this :-( -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from openSUSE 15.0 (Legolas))

Christian Boltz

17:10

Hello, Am Sonntag, 26. August 2018, 04:27:33 CEST schrieb Bryan Lunduke:

...

There are so many wonderful, inspiring projects and communities in the broader Free Software world -- that it makes little sense for me to remain a member of one where the leadership personally attacks those who suggest simple notions such as "let's be more transparent" (an implied criticism that is as much about my own failings, as a past Board Member, as anyone).

There is a fine line between "being fully transparent" and "being as transparent as possible". The details and (dis)advantages of both ways have already been mentioned by several people, therefore I won't repeat them. IMHO we are very close to "as transparent as possible" even if it sometimes "hurts" *), like in this case which you summed up as "forbidden / discouraged from discussing". BTW, this doesn't apply to any board member (not even one, as you try to imply by asking for "any other"), and if someone tried to silence me, I'd simply ignore it. Oh, and we could easily have avoided this discussion by simply not mentioning in the minutes that we discussed this topic ;-) I'm aware that I could easily paint myself into a corner with the above statements, and I'll happily take that risk. *) with "hurts" (note the quotes), I don't want to imply that I dislike public discussions about what the board decided. Actually I like these discussions, because a) we get feedback this way and b) we know that people care about what we do ;-)

...

The responses received from some openSUSE Board members were profane, rude, slanderous... and just plain not nice.

.. says someone who can be way more sarcastic than I - and that probably means something ;-) Playing devil's advocate, and I'll clearly tag the following paragraph: <sarcasm> You asked for transparency, and now you don't like that some people were very transparent about their opinion about you? </sarcasm> BTW: Unless I overlooked something, no board member said something about you that qualifies as slanderousness. If you disagree, please point out (in public or a private mail, whatever you prefer) what exactly was slanderous, and I'll have a second look.

...

I request that I be removed from the openSUSE membership list.

We are a do-ocracy even when it comes to this ;-) To remove yourself from the membership list, please go to https://connect.opensuse.org/pg/groups/111 then login and click the "Leave group" link in the left column. Regards, Christian Boltz -- For a while I thought that it may be fixable, but then I looked into the source: a 400 line function in Perl. With a goto. [Martin Vidner on https://github.com/yast/yast-registration/pull/244/commits/ 64eb11b9b403d163ab0400adf0ed7692e9f3bb1b] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Per Jessen

17:30

Christian Boltz wrote:

...

Hello,

Am Sonntag, 26. August 2018, 04:27:33 CEST schrieb Bryan Lunduke:

...
There are so many wonderful, inspiring projects and communities in the broader Free Software world -- that it makes little sense for me to remain a member of one where the leadership personally attacks those who suggest simple notions such as "let's be more transparent" (an implied criticism that is as much about my own failings, as a past Board Member, as anyone).

There is a fine line between "being fully transparent" and "being as transparent as possible". The details and (dis)advantages of both ways have already been mentioned by several people, therefore I won't repeat them.

IMHO we are very close to "as transparent as possible" even if it sometimes "hurts" *), like in this case which you summed up as "forbidden / discouraged from discussing". BTW, this doesn't apply to any board member (not even one, as you try to imply by asking for "any other"), and if someone tried to silence me, I'd simply ignore it.

I'm aware that I could easily paint myself into a corner with the above statements, and I'll happily take that risk.

I might very well vote for you again, Christian.

...

*) with "hurts" (note the quotes), I don't want to imply that I dislike public discussions about what the board decided. Actually I like these discussions, because a) we get feedback this way and b) we know that people care about what we do ;-)

Two immensely important points, I think. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (18.7°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - dedicated server rental in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Sarah Julia Kriesch

27 Aug 27 Aug

08:21

New subject: Aw: Re: [opensuse-project] Formally resigning my openSUSE membership

...

Gesendet: Sonntag, 26. August 2018 um 19:30 Uhr Von: "Per Jessen" An: opensuse-project@opensuse.org Betreff: Re: [opensuse-project] Formally resigning my openSUSE membership

Christian Boltz wrote:

...
Hello,

Am Sonntag, 26. August 2018, 04:27:33 CEST schrieb Bryan Lunduke:

...
There are so many wonderful, inspiring projects and communities in the broader Free Software world -- that it makes little sense for me to remain a member of one where the leadership personally attacks those who suggest simple notions such as "let's be more transparent" (an implied criticism that is as much about my own failings, as a past Board Member, as anyone).

There is a fine line between "being fully transparent" and "being as transparent as possible". The details and (dis)advantages of both ways have already been mentioned by several people, therefore I won't repeat them.

IMHO we are very close to "as transparent as possible" even if it sometimes "hurts" *), like in this case which you summed up as "forbidden / discouraged from discussing". BTW, this doesn't apply to any board member (not even one, as you try to imply by asking for "any other"), and if someone tried to silence me, I'd simply ignore it.

This new transparency i good and a big plus for openSUSE. In the past the openSUSE Board voted for you and and you didn't know what we do. Now you know that and you can give us feedback. The bad side of that is that (Christian sain that correct) you can hurt yourself with such a transparency. Some weeks ago I wrote the Board meeting minutes like some of you want to have (names with their opinions). That was the first version and we said that it is too much transparent. We had a small discussion about this topic. At the end we said that we don't use names and represent all with the view of the full Board. In every Board you can have different opinions. That is the reason for disussions in Board meetings. Anybody has an idea and sometimes one guy doesn't stay behind that. What should we do with this idea, if all other Board Members are convinced? We can write down that 1 vote is against it, but the rest of the Board is for that and so the idea is approved.

...

From my point of view we should see published Board meeting minutes as the chance to receive feedback by the community to improve what was going not perfectly.

Best regards, Sarah

...

...
I'm aware that I could easily paint myself into a corner with the above statements, and I'll happily take that risk.

I might very well vote for you again, Christian.

...
*) with "hurts" (note the quotes), I don't want to imply that I dislike public discussions about what the board decided. Actually I like these discussions, because a) we get feedback this way and b) we know that people care about what we do ;-)

Two immensely important points, I think.

-- Per Jessen, Zürich (18.7°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - dedicated server rental in Switzerland.

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Markus Feilner

28 Aug 28 Aug

08:21

Am Sonntag, 26. August 2018, 04:27:33 CEST schrieb Bryan Lunduke:

...

To the openSUSE community,

Hey Bryan, as a friend... Have a good time and keep on enjoying the benefits of the OSS world! I don't think your step is a big surprise, I rather think it is a consistent one. I don't think feelings should matter, but when they limit one's ability to fully dedicate or feel for a project and henceforth follow other goals, then your way is the right way to go. And as we all know: Sometimes feelings do not align with reality, but there's also sometimes no way to get the real things in line with the show or big picture (am I using the right metaphor here?). :-) It was always nice working with you, I wish it had been much more often. Have a good time, Sir Duke. Good riddance. :-P

...

There are so many wonderful, inspiring projects and communities in the broader Free Software world -- that it makes little sense for me to remain a member of one where the leadership personally attacks those who suggest simple notions such as "let's be more transparent" (an implied criticism that is as much about my own failings, as a past Board Member, as anyone).

The responses received from some openSUSE Board members were profane, rude, slanderous... and just plain not nice.

I have many friends in this community -- a community that has done some truly exceptional work. Many of you have *much* to be proud of. And I will do my best to not let the words and actions of some of the Board impact my views of the good work that you have done and, I hope, will do in the future. For the technology you have produced -- and the friendship you have shared -- I will always be in your debt.

That said, the Board has created a negative, cruel atmosphere that I do not want any part of. Perhaps one day that will change but, for now, it is time to separate myself entirely and to focus on the communities with much less hate; To surround myself with love, instead.

I do not expect any other people to take this action -- nor do I wish this to cause any additional unhappiness or conflict among the community. It is simply an action I must take, and I want my thoughts (whether any agree with them or not) to be stated.

I request that I be removed from the openSUSE membership list. I will unsubscribe myself from the various mailing lists this evening.

I wish you all (and I do mean *all*) the very best.

-Bryan Lunduke

-- Markus Feilner Team Lead Documentation P.S.: I moved - new home address: Wöhrdstraße 10, 93059 Regensburg - - - _This incident will be documented._ - - - +49 173 5876 838 (also via Signal), privat: +49 170 302 7092 mfeilner@suse.[com|de] http://www.suse.com G+: https://plus.google.com/+MarkusFeilner Xing: http://www.xing.com/profile/Markus_Feilner LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/markusfeilner #mfeilner: Jabber, Skype, Twitter openSUSE: http://www.opensuse.org - - - SUSE Linux GmbH GF: Felix Imendörffer, Jane Smithard, Graham Norton, HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg)

Ana Martínez

2 Sep 2 Sep

18:13

Hi, I am sad to read that and also really disappointed with the tone of some of the discussions in the mailing list and that some people got offended (I have just read and answered the minutes thread). I strongly believe that in openSUSE we want as many new people as possible to join and also that everybody already here stays. I am pretty sure that the rest of the Board agrees with me. Also, remember that openSUSE is much more that the 6 persons in the board. Regards, Ana El dom., 26 ago. 2018 a las 4:27, Bryan Lunduke () escribió:

...

To the openSUSE community,

There are so many wonderful, inspiring projects and communities in the broader Free Software world -- that it makes little sense for me to remain a member of one where the leadership personally attacks those who suggest simple notions such as "let's be more transparent" (an implied criticism that is as much about my own failings, as a past Board Member, as anyone).

The responses received from some openSUSE Board members were profane, rude, slanderous... and just plain not nice.

I have many friends in this community -- a community that has done some truly exceptional work. Many of you have *much* to be proud of. And I will do my best to not let the words and actions of some of the Board impact my views of the good work that you have done and, I hope, will do in the future. For the technology you have produced -- and the friendship you have shared -- I will always be in your debt.

That said, the Board has created a negative, cruel atmosphere that I do not want any part of. Perhaps one day that will change but, for now, it is time to separate myself entirely and to focus on the communities with much less hate; To surround myself with love, instead.

I do not expect any other people to take this action -- nor do I wish this to cause any additional unhappiness or conflict among the community. It is simply an action I must take, and I want my thoughts (whether any agree with them or not) to be stated.

I request that I be removed from the openSUSE membership list. I will unsubscribe myself from the various mailing lists this evening.

I wish you all (and I do mean *all*) the very best.

-Bryan Lunduke -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

-- Ana María Martínez Gómez http://anamaria.martinezgomez.name -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Knurpht-openSUSE

18:20

Op zondag 2 september 2018 20:13:04 CEST schreef Ana Martínez:

...

Hi,

I am sad to read that and also really disappointed with the tone of some of the discussions in the mailing list and that some people got offended (I have just read and answered the minutes thread).

I strongly believe that in openSUSE we want as many new people as possible to join and also that everybody already here stays. I am pretty sure that the rest of the Board agrees with me. Also, remember that openSUSE is much more that the 6 persons in the board.\

Amen, Ana. IMHO the whole discussion ( and yes, I was harsh, rude, again I apologize ) is nothing more than the path to what we, as the openSUSE community, and the openSUSE Board, are on a quest for. That is not an easy process, since f.e. privacy of individuals is a big concern. Individuals inside and outside the Board.

...

Regards,

Ana

El dom., 26 ago. 2018 a las 4:27, Bryan Lunduke ()

escribió:

...

...
To the openSUSE community,

There are so many wonderful, inspiring projects and communities in the broader Free Software world -- that it makes little sense for me to remain a member of one where the leadership personally attacks those who suggest simple notions such as "let's be more transparent" (an implied criticism that is as much about my own failings, as a past Board Member, as anyone).

The responses received from some openSUSE Board members were profane, rude, slanderous... and just plain not nice.

I have many friends in this community -- a community that has done some truly exceptional work. Many of you have *much* to be proud of. And I will do my best to not let the words and actions of some of the Board impact my views of the good work that you have done and, I hope, will do in the future. For the technology you have produced -- and the friendship you have shared -- I will always be in your debt.

That said, the Board has created a negative, cruel atmosphere that I do not want any part of. Perhaps one day that will change but, for now, it is time to separate myself entirely and to focus on the communities with much less hate; To surround myself with love, instead.

I do not expect any other people to take this action -- nor do I wish this to cause any additional unhappiness or conflict among the community. It is simply an action I must take, and I want my thoughts (whether any agree with them or not) to be stated.

I request that I be removed from the openSUSE membership list. I will unsubscribe myself from the various mailing lists this evening.

I wish you all (and I do mean *all*) the very best.

-Bryan Lunduke -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

-- Gertjan Lettink a.k.a. Knurpht openSUSE Board Member openSUSE Forums Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

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participants (9)

Ana Martínez
Bryan Lunduke
Carlos E. R.
Christian Boltz
hellcp＠opensuse.org
Knurpht-openSUSE
Markus Feilner
Per Jessen
Sarah Julia Kriesch