Hi again, The meeting minutes are now also in the Wiki: https://en.opensuse.org/Archive:Board_meeting_2018-07-31 ;) In case you want to check old board meeting minutes, all of them are collected here: https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Board_meetings Regards, Ana 2018-08-14 16:53 GMT+02:00 Ana Martínez :

Hi,

please ignore my previous email, I though we were still discussing between us (the board) if the minutes were ready to publish. It seems they are as they are now public! Thanks Richard for taking care of it again.

Regards,

Ana

2018-08-14 16:48 GMT+02:00 Ana Martínez :

...

That's funny, I was editing the minutes myself when I received Richard's email - several people has asked me about the minutes and I was thinking about finishing it as everybody seems to be busy ;). I think we should change the policy of all of us need to agree to all of us need to agree before DATE LIMIT, after that approval is assumed. Anyway, let's focus now on finishing it and publishing it. This version LGTM, thanks for updating it Richard. Christian, Simon, Knurpht is this fine for you? PLEASE ANSWER ASAP :)

2018-08-14 16:43 GMT+02:00 Richard Brown :

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# Board Meeting Minutes Jul 31 2018

# Attendees

Complete

# Minutes

## Board Meeting Minutes

After an accidental disclosure of our Board minutes after the last meeting, Board agreed to only publish its minutes after the draft has been agreed upon by the Board

## Conflict

Gertjan gave an update on the conflict to date Mediation so far has been therapeutic, solutions have been elusive todate, but the conflicting contributors are now constructively discussing with each other with the board mediators in CC. Discussions ongoing

## Conflict 2

AI Ana to discuss as recorded in last meeting

## Bugshare

Bugzilla is not allowing SUSE-volunteers for bugshare to open bugs in the way intended

AI Simon to email Richard about the problem to raise with SUSE mgmt

## Membership

AI Richard to update Membership pages on wiki

## Licensing News

news.opensuse.org need to fixed to show its license for the content (CC-BY)

AI Ana to talk to Doug about getting that fixed if she doesn't fix it already

## Sponsoring Football Club

Board had a request to sponsor a local kids football team in Bavaria. The Board discussed the idea We typically only sponsor conferences when there are openSUSE contributors present to represent the Project and discuss with interested parties In this case even though this is not a conference, there will be openSUSE Contributors present, so even though it isn't a conference And the team has parents and supporters from local technical companies in the area (eg. Siemens) The Board decided to sponsor the team with a 5-1 vote As it is unusual for us to sponsor such things, the Board decided to consider such things only on a case by case basis, at the Board level

AI Ana to talk to Doug about updating the sponsorship page

## openSUSE Asia

Discussion about the logo, trademark, etc. Nothing to discuss, although the logo doesn't comply with our usual colours and logo type, it does fit in the parameters allowed in the Artwork guidelines

Ana and Simon will be doing the opening and closing sessions Ralf Flaxa (SUSE President of Engineering) will now also be providing a keynote

## Foundation

Ongoing discussions with SPI - they are generally welcome at the idea of providing a project of our size with thier service SFConservancy - also seem to open to working with us Discussions ongoing

# Next Meeting

21st August , after openSUSE Asia, due to Simon and Ana's inability to join due to their return travel from the conference.

AI: Richard to violently persuade the bot to behave and remind us about the correct time -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

--

Ana María Martínez Gómez

http://anamaria.martinezgomez.name

--

Ana María Martínez Gómez

http://anamaria.martinezgomez.name

-- Ana María Martínez Gómez http://anamaria.martinezgomez.name -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

* Alexander Graul [08-21-18 09:31]: [...]

I have to say I don't really see a good reason to sponsor a football team. I doubt we will find users let alone contributors among the players or their parents. I think this money could be spent on groups or clubs that are closer related to our project instead.

I also don't understand why "local" matters here. I thought openSUSE was an "open and global community project" (quote from https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Members) - where does "local" fit in a global community?

I agree. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

On 8/21/18 5:41 PM, Richard Brown wrote:

On Tue, 21 Aug 2018 at 15:46, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

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* Alexander Graul [08-21-18 09:31]: [...]

...

I have to say I don't really see a good reason to sponsor a football team. I doubt we will find users let alone contributors among the players or their parents. I think this money could be spent on groups or clubs that are closer related to our project instead.

I also don't understand why "local" matters here. I thought openSUSE was an "open and global community project" (quote from https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Members) - where does "local" fit in a global community? I agree. Playing devils advocate, does that mean we should cease sponsoring anything to do with any local region?

Not at all. I my opinion, it should not be an explicit factor though (and therefore not worthy of mentioning).

No more sponsorship of any local LUG events? How about city-focused events like Brighton Ruby? Are regions like Asia ok but smaller localities not?

Local is always the question of perspective. Local to global is a scale and as you point out it is hard to draw a line. I don't think sponsoring should be a factor of something being local or not - hence my question in the first place. Maybe I read too much into the mention of it being a local team, I just don't think it really matters. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

On 08/21/2018 05:23 PM, Ana Martínez wrote:

2018-08-21 15:29 GMT+02:00 Alexander Graul :

...

I have to say I don't really see a good reason to sponsor a football team. I doubt we will find users let alone contributors among the players or their parents. I think this money could be spent on groups or clubs that are closer related to our project instead.

I also don't understand why "local" matters here. I thought openSUSE was an "open and global community project" (quote from https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Members) - where does "local" fit in a global community?

I couldn't agree more. The vote against this sponsorship is mine, but that is how democracy works. ;) It would be interesting to know what other people think about that. Any other opinions?

Since you asked... ;-) The decision to sponsor that team also sounded kind of weird to me. As much as I would like to see openSUSE sponsoring my own kids' football team, I don't think it makes much sense from the project perspective. And it can become a dangerous precedent for others to ask for sponsorship for all kind of random things. Cheers. -- Ancor González Sosa YaST Team at SUSE Linux GmbH -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

On Tue, 21 Aug 2018 at 17:49, James Mason wrote:

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On Tue, 2018-08-21 at 17:38 +0200, Ancor Gonzalez Sosa wrote:

...

The decision to sponsor that team also sounded kind of weird to me. As much as I would like to see openSUSE sponsoring my own kids' football team, I don't think it makes much sense from the project perspective. And it can become a dangerous precedent for others to ask for sponsorship for all kind of random things.

On that note, I would like to formally request sponsorship of a pony.

I would consider it only if we can brand our logo on the side of the pony (in a way that would be humane to the pony) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

On 2018-08-21 08:54, James Mason wrote:

On Tue, 2018-08-21 at 17:52 +0200, Richard Brown wrote:

...

...

On that note, I would like to formally request sponsorship of a pony.

I would consider it only if we can brand our logo on the side of the pony (in a way that would be humane to the pony)

I'm fine with that. Perhaps a nice pantone-matched dye?

I second the Pantone-Pony-Promotion motion. -Bryan Lunduke -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

On Tue, 21 Aug 2018 at 17:59, Ana Martínez wrote:

2018-08-21 17:52 GMT+02:00 Richard Brown :

...

On Tue, 21 Aug 2018 at 17:49, James Mason wrote:

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On Tue, 2018-08-21 at 17:38 +0200, Ancor Gonzalez Sosa wrote:

...

The decision to sponsor that team also sounded kind of weird to me. As much as I would like to see openSUSE sponsoring my own kids' football team, I don't think it makes much sense from the project perspective. And it can become a dangerous precedent for others to ask for sponsorship for all kind of random things.

On that note, I would like to formally request sponsorship of a pony.

I would consider it only if we can brand our logo on the side of the pony (in a way that would be humane to the pony)

After the football team, it is really complicate for me to say no. I also vote in favor of sponsoring the Pony. Can I also get one? ;)

I would vote no in this case Replying a little seriously, and to justify my vote publicly (which is something I shouldn't have to do, given the Board's rule that decisions made collectively are defended collectively, but someone seems to have forgotten that... :-/ ) I understand and accept that the sponsorship of this kids football team is unusual. I will not be voting for every such request. I only vote for sponsorship requests which bring the benefit of getting our name and logo in the face of more people Normally I support sponsorship requests that are within our usual sphere of interest, technical conferences, events, groups, and the like I consider this one decision an opportunity to see if we get any traction or interest from putting our logo prominently in an unusual place. And I think that's a worthwhile idea - after all we're not going to attract new blood with totally new ideas to the Project if we only advertise ourselves in the usual places. As the person coaching the team is a strongopenSUSE advocate it would be a safe, easy opportunity to see if such an idea works with a direct feedback loop to the Project. And if it does work, then I might be willing to support other such ideas in the future. If it doesn't, I wont. Until then I won't be supporting any similar unusual-context sponsorship suggestions. And I see no problem in that - we always decide sponsorships on a case by case basis, so no one should assume any consistency between decisions on this topic - there far too many factors are in play for people to carry such assumptions. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

On 08/21/2018 05:38 PM, Ancor Gonzalez Sosa wrote:

On 08/21/2018 05:23 PM, Ana Martínez wrote:

...

2018-08-21 15:29 GMT+02:00 Alexander Graul :

...

I have to say I don't really see a good reason to sponsor a football team. I doubt we will find users let alone contributors among the players or their parents. I think this money could be spent on groups or clubs that are closer related to our project instead.

I also don't understand why "local" matters here. I thought openSUSE was an "open and global community project" (quote from https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Members) - where does "local" fit in a global community?

I couldn't agree more. The vote against this sponsorship is mine, but that is how democracy works. ;) It would be interesting to know what other people think about that. Any other opinions?

Since you asked... ;-)

The decision to sponsor that team also sounded kind of weird to me. As much as I would like to see openSUSE sponsoring my own kids' football team, I don't think it makes much sense from the project perspective. And it can become a dangerous precedent for others to ask for sponsorship for all kind of random things.

That being said. I fully support the Board's work. They are elected to make decisions and I'm 100% sure they do that in a fully responsible way. But since the topic was already open and a call for opinions was raised, I saw it like an opportunity to raise my concerns about the topic. In other words, no flame war intended. ;-) Cheers. -- Ancor González Sosa YaST Team at SUSE Linux GmbH -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

On Tue, 21 Aug 2018 at 23:15, wrote:

On 8/21/18 6:20 PM, Ancor Gonzalez Sosa wrote:

...

That being said. I fully support the Board's work. They are elected to make decisions and I'm 100% sure they do that in a fully responsible way.

[...]

...

In other words, no flame war intended. ;-)

I completely agree! I did not want to offend anybody, I just wanted to give feedback to the board on a decision that I believe to be incorrect. Since the board is representing us, I think it is important to have this type of communication. That is also why I am really thankful these meeting summaries get released.

For the record, I completely agree too. Even where I disagree with the feedback, I value these discussions and welcome them. I have taken no offence at the feedback - my use of rhetorical devices like playing Devil's Advocate was an attempt to keep the lighthearted mood while challenging the audience to see the situation from a different perspective. If it came off as testy or frustrated, that was not my intention at all. The Board answers to the community, we provide minutes so these questions can be asked and such feedback can be given. I don't think we can promise that we will always act upon that feedback - the Board wouldn't be much of a functional decision making body if we revert every decision after a few pieces of negative feedback. After all, with this minutes based approach there is always a higher tendency for feedback that disagrees with decisions to appear compared to the feelings of those who read the minutes and are ambivalent or in agreement with everything. And that's fine, nature of the beast - alternative options like putting every decision to a vote would likely be unwieldy, ineffective, and impractical. But even if the feedback doesn't result in immediate changes, I can confidently state that any and all feedback does influence future decisions, and so is a healthy and important part of the governance of the project. Please feel free to keep on disagreeing (or agreeing) with anything you read in any minutes - just realise I and others should also feel equally free to disagree with your disagreement also ;) - Rich -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

On mercredi, 22 août 2018 01.11:56 h CEST James Mason wrote:

On Tue, 2018-08-21 at 23:27 +0200, Richard Brown wrote:

...

Even where I disagree with the feedback, I value these discussions and welcome them. I have taken no offence at the feedback - my use of rhetorical devices like playing Devil's Advocate was an attempt to keep the lighthearted mood while challenging the audience to see the situation from a different perspective.

Okay... but I'm still getting my pony, right?

-- James Mason SUSE

I'm not agains't but it has to be fun and green :-) something that paint a smile on your face for the day. https://www.mynoors.com/peluche-licorne-toute-verte-25-cm.html (ps I'm not involved on any part of this website, it's just a cute green expression of O'pony) -- Bruno Friedmann Ioda-Net Sàrl www.ioda-net.ch Bareos Partner, openSUSE Member, fsfe supporter GPG KEY : D5C9B751C4653227 irc: tigerfoot -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Ana Martínez wrote:

2018-08-21 15:29 GMT+02:00 Alexander Graul :

...

...

## Sponsoring Football Club

[snip]

I have to say I don't really see a good reason to sponsor a football team. I doubt we will find users let alone contributors among the players or their parents. I think this money could be spent on groups or clubs that are closer related to our project instead.

I also don't understand why "local" matters here. I thought openSUSE was an "open and global community project" (quote from https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Members) - where does "local" fit in a global community?

I couldn't agree more. The vote against this sponsorship is mine, but that is how democracy works. ;) It would be interesting to know what other people think about that. Any other opinions?

I agree with Alexander, it does seem a bit odd. When seen in isolation it seems fine, but if we were to put together a list of the rest of Bavarias/Germanys/Europes kids' football clubs, no doubt all with "parents and supporters from local technical companies" .... -- Per Jessen, Zürich (23.1°C) member, openSUSE Heroes. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org