On Fri, 24 Nov 2006, Andreas Jaeger wrote:

Mark Shuttleworth writes:

...

If you have an interest in being part of a vibrant community that cares about keeping free software widely available and protecting the rights of people to get it free of charge, free to modify, free of murky encumbrances and “undisclosed balance sheet liabilities”, then please do join us.

We do share these goals as well.

I think most NON-MS people do. I like to include all the BSD variants that have these same goals. I think the greatest problem is the in-fighting with in Linux. Some are a bit too far from understanding that user's just want the thing to work and work well. What I see as the major reason most people I work with use MS is that their application only runs on MS. We really need to get more of the great commercial applications working on Linux or a free solution. But most people still have to some how provide for themsevles and their families. We do not have all the time to code all these great applications, and still live. That is why there are commercial companies that support linux. We need them. We need to provide for the great applications or get the ones that work on MS to work on linux. I know that most of my customer use the OS that provides their needs. What ever that may be.

...

I know that posting this message to an OpenSUSE list will be controversial. I'm greatly respectful of the long tradition of excellence in the SuSE product and community and have no desire to undermine that with this post. That said, I think the position taken by Novell leadership in their contract with Microsoft is hugely disrespectful of the contributions of thousands of GPL programmers and contributors to SuSE, and I know that many are looking for a new place to get involved that is not subject to the same arbitrary executive intervention. Ubuntu is one option, as are Gentoo, Debian and other communities. Please accept this mail in that spirit.

There's been a lot of confusion and misrepresentation - and maybe not the best reaction from Novell to all the concerns and fears that the contract raised - but I do see us on the same side: as part of the open source community.

Mark, I'd like to invite you to discuss what possibilities we have to work together against the domination of Microsoft on the desktops - instead of fighting against each other.

I would prefer to see more users switching from Windows to Linux than just Linux users switching distributions.

I would love to see more work for this than all the in fighting we have now. We really need to get our ducks together to provide what user's need. Then they can move from MS to a better solution. -- Boyd Gerber ZENEZ 1042 East Fort Union #135, Midvale Utah 84047 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Mark Shuttleworth writes:

[...]

I know many SuSE developers share the same goals as the Ubuntu project, so collaboration should be our primary goal. And I'm happy to work with you to figure out how we do so. Perhaps we can devote some time during the Open Week to discussing collaboration between distros, too? You'd be welcome to join us. Also, I would be happy to visit your next meeting, or online forum, to talk about this further, just let me know when and where.

I'm really busy getting 10.2 out of the door this week. The next IRC meeting is scheduled for next week but I won't be available either - sorry :-( I'll come back to you and let's do something in January. Would that be ok? Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, aj@suse.de, http://www.suse.de/~aj/ SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126

How nice if you (and all of us) could cooperate instead of debating only, and in the extension perchance expect COMMON DISTRIBUTIONS based on the achievements of both Ubuntu and Opensuse - and a much more skilled MS-killer than before ... Regards, Leif

Andreas Jaeger wrote:

...

I'll come back to you and let's do something in January. Would that be ok?

Sounds good! Good luck for the release. Mark

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On Saturday 25 November 2006 10:45, Paul C. Leopardi wrote:

particularly from Mark Waugh. Jeff! Jeff! I meant Jeff http://perkypants.org/blog/ not the cricketer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Waugh Sorry.

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On 2006-11-25 00:07, Andreas Jaeger wrote:

Not sure whether you have seen these reactions, especially the first two from Ubuntu folks are interesting to read:

http://www.advogato.org/person/Burgundavia/diary.html?start=113 https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2006-November/022578.html http://www.novell.com/coolblogs/?p=648 http://daniel.molkentin.de/blog/index.php?/archives/58-Ubuntus-Quest-for-Ope... http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/2553

Andreas

So what's the SABDFL (presumably a reference to Shuttleworth) in Burgundavia's blog mean, "self-appointed, benign and divine, fearless leader"? Personally, if Ubuntu was the last Linux distro on earth, after this I would not use it. I will switch to BSD before I will use Ubuntu. But we do no one any service, least of all ourselves, by perpetuating comment on this foolish behaviour of a foolish man. The best way to deal with Mark Shuttleworth is to treat his "invitation", as the Japanese would say, with noble silence. -- The best way to accelerate a computer running Windows is at 9.81 m/s² --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Andreas Jaeger wrote:

Not sure whether you have seen these reactions, especially the first two from Ubuntu folks are interesting to read:

http://www.advogato.org/person/Burgundavia/diary.html?start=113 https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2006-November/022578.html http://www.novell.com/coolblogs/?p=648 http://daniel.molkentin.de/blog/index.php?/archives/58-Ubuntus-Quest-for-Ope... http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/2553

Andreas

http://www.novell.com/coolblogs/?p=648 SuSE's great engineering...! That's what I'm talking about. This is what, I for one, really like about suse. It is really good. Solid and tight. And literally packed full of almost anything you could want or think of. If it ain't in there, download it or make it yourself. It ain't perfect, but it's dang good. I"m not so sure about the other guys good marketing (I have yet to get ubuntu to boot on my office machine, 3 versions later). I mean, suse really looks good to me. It took quite a while, but I find among many windows boxes, I really like using suse with kde. Its good. Has its quirks, but most do. It just took a while to get used to. I truly like it. (Haven't seen the new menus others are complaining about. But if its kde I'm sure you can change it in a snap). One of the first things I got used to very quickly was just everyday surfing. Firefox is good, so is Opera, and Konqueror but I'm not used to it on the web.(Konqueror does do one heck of an ftp download). And with the piece of mind of a much reduced risk of being effected by the mass of rot there is out there. Windows guys, can you say safe? Many other things start to stand out once you get the feel of it. It is different. Installing apps, whoa! You mean you can't just double-click it? What kind of deal is this? But for a newbie that's probably good. They can't change too many things at first and screw stuff up. It is powerful machinery. As you learn it, it gets easier. And as an added bonus you get to learn much more about computers in general than you ever knew about. Even if you think you know something about computers. I am of course talking about coming from windows here, although you can learn here wherever you come from. I was thinking about Balmer's comments at the Professional Association for SQL Server conference. At first I could not believe that. I didn't need to read upcoming news stories to see that that was a double slap in the face. The gaul of those people, I was thinking. I mean, do they continually spit out all this goop that they actually believe it, or more, that they are so used to spitting out all of this stuff about their actual software (how well its built, safe, secure, blah blah blah) that they just are really used to doing that. Spewing. But now I think that they actually really don't care much. They just throw this bullshite out there just because. Bust because they can. And just for the fun of it. They don't care one way or another. They throw it out there, and if they get the reaction they wanted, so much the better. I mean with all of this stuff out here in the lists of all the angry discussions, the fracturing of some of our community. If they beat us on that, they will say that was easy. But if we stay our course (with upcoming changes big and small; thats what this community is best at. Change), well then - they will have to compete on technology, not fud, mud, or drud. Actually compete. One thing that was made clear is that they intend to compete. Compete, compete, compete. Sha. Thats why I like suse. It is great engineering! The base is solid, the trimmings are nice, the distro is complete, best in breed configuration, and leading edge. What more could you ask for? Truly? That's why 'they' picked Novell. Suse is good. What an endorsement. Or what a threat. Who cares? Lets just do what we do. Let the people at novell who do the selling, sell. I don't know you guys, but knock yourselves out! I'm looking for a good, long term growth, stock to buy. Actually more than one, but that's another story :) Someone here said that that's what we wanted novell to do, make it commercial. Make it a commercial success. Let help them. For better or worse, we're here now. Lets get it on. I'm no developer TSTL. But is use it, and tweak it a bit. And tried installing gnome to check that out, and i started a server with email and web services, then i replaced it with a better server, only set up better. PIII. Other than slow graphics, that thing humms, and is as steady as a rock in the rain. Never stutters. At least not so far. Astounding what's in there. Truly. Well, sorry for the length. I just wanted to say that as long as Andreas and his group is hyped, i'm with him. I'll upgrade when I'm convinced, as before. Till then, there is no reason to change a thing. If suse dorks, well I'll change then. At this point I don't intend to. As long as it keeps getting better, I'm a happy man. And I'll go on doing my meager part of merely enjoying the use of it. I'm looking forward to 10.2. If you are a windows user, how long has it been since you've set down at your computer, and knew exactly where it was at, what it was doing, not worrying for an instant that is wasn't doing exactly the same thing was doing 6 months ago. Gives me peace of mind. 'Works great / more secure'. Sounds like a beer commercial. Anyway, I've been in suse since 8.2. Good issue, but many great advances since then as well. I think that is why this news has hit some of us so hard. We know how good suse is, esp compared to others distros. We just don't want to see this great technology be lead by its owners (current or otherwise) to be less that its potential. I for one am staying with it. To me the upside of what suse can be is worth more to me than the cost of changing at this point. There is something special with suse and its community. Somehow it came to be the best, but without the most hype or press, to say the least. There is something special in that. I'm with Andreas and this community. Jim Flanagan --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org