[opensuse-project] Isn't it possible to change the "just do it"

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[opensuse-project] Re: [RFC] / for...

Françoise Wybrecht

11 Jun 2015 11 Jun '15

16:20

Isn't it possible to change the "just do it" ? (@Henné, of course) to find a new boosting sentence ? longer mail ... couldn't be avoid ;) OK a geek is used to work a lot alone ... but for sure most f us are here to share, collaborate, pair-program or brainstorm a new sorftware. But "Co is King". Coworking, coproduction, cocréation... (I read that a few weeks ago) and a community project (in theory for sure we all agree) depend on marketing and design too ... Marketing IS NOT just writing a blog or an article ... (!!) Sharing a new on linkedin can be part of marketing, but marketing is not just a "shit" todo boring list ... I deeply believe that any "shit todo" can become FUN as soon as we are a group having fun - co-acting ! So on this project mailing list ... we should be able to share ideas too, as : I have an idea of ... without being sure to get a : go and do it ... ALONE ! oh that's the fun ! this is a great way to bring all members/contributors to the silence. (kinda : do it or shut up) great meritocracy ;-) I'm sure it's not what you were wishing ... in 2011, an openSUSE team went for a marketing week in LA (travel and hotel paid) - and they did produce a lot (as well as articles, design, ideas and fun) - and each of them were very tired at the end but they (quite sure) all keep a great memory of that. Marketing & design IS not saying "just do it". It's a group work, team, fun ... or it's not, and nothing. We (as a community) have to change first our way of seing things before things will change ... or not. Isn't it possible to change the "just do it" ? and (by the way) "we never find contributors to do the shit ?" PS - Message to the elder (wise) members : In all group and community, a few people influence the community (and openSUSE is not an exception). You can easily do the list (= the 5 to 10 members/contributors that you decide to read when they talk on the mailing list like Henné, Kulow, Cornelius etc......). You, the "(wise) elder influenced openSUSE guys", even if you have very less time for that, have a responsability in the "project future", you (conscious or not) give the global mood on this mailing list ... we love to believe that we are an open community, but concretely, we just use very traditional human habits. When one wish to evolve (and we can prefer to regress) ... the "just do it" ... is like "leave us work" - "we have no time for abstract ideas with no future" - "do what you want, as long as we can go on our job" etc ... I say it ... I just do it. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

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jdd

11 Jun 11 Jun

16:30

Le 11/06/2015 18:20, Françoise Wybrecht a écrit :

...

Isn't it possible to change the "just do it" ? (@Henné, of course)

I just read (again) the opensUSE new flyer (the one with cheat sheet), and noticed than apart the last sentence "join us and have a lot of fun", there is nowhere a word to say "come with us, we are a friendly community, we try to have fun as much as possible". May be the best moment in OSC-11 was the travel to openSUSE brewery and the meat we had there :-). Why do you need to come to openSUSE? come to have fun... * fun using your computer * fun to exchange in forums and mailing lists ... jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Andrew Wafaa

18:22

On 11 June 2015 at 17:20, Françoise Wybrecht wrote:

...

Isn't it possible to change the "just do it" ? (@Henné, of course)

Why do you feel the need to? I see you have made your suggestion... instead of just doing it, you suggest we "just bikeshed it"

...

to find a new boosting sentence ?

What on earth does boosting mean?

...

longer mail ... couldn't be avoid ;)

Yes it could, you could have done a blog post.

...

OK a geek is used to work a lot alone ... but for sure most f us are here to share, collaborate, pair-program or brainstorm a new sorftware.

But "Co is King". Coworking, coproduction, cocréation... (I read that a few weeks ago)

We already collaborate, and?

...

and a community project (in theory for sure we all agree) depend on marketing and design too ...

Marketing IS NOT just writing a blog or an article ... (!!)

Sharing a new on linkedin can be part of marketing, but marketing is not just a "shit" todo boring list ...

I deeply believe that any "shit todo" can become FUN as soon as we are a group having fun - co-acting !

For effective marketing you need to have a clear and concise understanding of what it is that you want to say.

...

So on this project mailing list ... we should be able to share ideas too, as : I have an idea of ... without being sure to get a : go and do it ... ALONE ! oh that's the fun ! this is a great way to bring all members/contributors to the silence. (kinda : do it or shut up)

What would be even better is instead of beating the donkey to death discussing whether A, B, E, 1, 9 is better; how about you make a choice, start doing it and then say "hey I had idea x and I've started to roll with it see example D, anyone fancy helping?"

...

great meritocracy ;-) I'm sure it's not what you were wishing ...

in 2011, an openSUSE team went for a marketing week in LA (travel and hotel paid) - and they did produce a lot (as well as articles, design, ideas and fun) - and each of them were very tired at the end but they (quite sure) all keep a great memory of that.

It wasn't that productive, I saw ZERO useful output.

...

Marketing & design IS not saying "just do it". It's a group work, team, fun ... or it's not, and nothing.

Nobody is *saying* just do it, we need people to roll their sleeves up get their hands dirty doing damn work, not bikeshedding and procrastinating!

...

We (as a community) have to change first our way of seing things before things will change ... or not.

Isn't it possible to change the "just do it" ? and (by the way) "we never find contributors to do the shit ?"

I don't see why we should change "just do it".

...

PS - Message to the elder (wise) members :

In all group and community, a few people influence the community (and openSUSE is not an exception).

You can easily do the list (= the 5 to 10 members/contributors that you decide to read when they talk on the mailing list like Henné, Kulow, Cornelius etc......).

You, the "(wise) elder influenced openSUSE guys", even if you have very less time for that, have a responsability in the "project future",

you (conscious or not) give the global mood on this mailing list ...

we love to believe that we are an open community, but concretely, we just use very traditional human habits. When one wish to evolve (and we can prefer to regress) ...

the "just do it" ... is like "leave us work" - "we have no time for abstract ideas with no future" - "do what you want, as long as we can go on our job" etc ...

I say it ... I just do it.

With these inane ramblings that make no sense, us older and wiser members switch off from reading the mailing lists as there is too much noise and not enough content.

...

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Per Jessen

18:48

Andrew Wafaa wrote:

...

On 11 June 2015 at 17:20, Françoise Wybrecht wrote:

...
Isn't it possible to change the "just do it" ? (@Henné, of course)

Why do you feel the need to?

I see you have made your suggestion... instead of just doing it, you suggest we "just bikeshed it"

...
to find a new boosting sentence ?

What on earth does boosting mean?

...
longer mail ... couldn't be avoid ;)

Yes it could, you could have done a blog post.

Which everyone could immediately have ignored.

...

...
OK a geek is used to work a lot alone ... but for sure most f us are here to share, collaborate, pair-program or brainstorm a new sorftware.

But "Co is King". Coworking, coproduction, cocréation... (I read that a few weeks ago)

We already collaborate, and?

Why don't you adjust your tone, it's not very helpful. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (23.3°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - dedicated server rental in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Andrew Wafaa

19:05

On 11 June 2015 at 19:48, Per Jessen wrote:

...

Andrew Wafaa wrote:

...
On 11 June 2015 at 17:20, Françoise Wybrecht wrote:

...
Isn't it possible to change the "just do it" ? (@Henné, of course)

Why do you feel the need to?

I see you have made your suggestion... instead of just doing it, you suggest we "just bikeshed it"

...
to find a new boosting sentence ?

What on earth does boosting mean?

...
longer mail ... couldn't be avoid ;)

Yes it could, you could have done a blog post.

Which everyone could immediately have ignored.

Possible. I could also have ignored the email. I chose not to mostly because I'm fed up with all the bikeshedding going on. There have been no tangible proposals and descriptions of issues with feasible solutions.

...

...
...
OK a geek is used to work a lot alone ... but for sure most f us are here to share, collaborate, pair-program or brainstorm a new sorftware.

But "Co is King". Coworking, coproduction, cocréation... (I read that a few weeks ago)

We already collaborate, and?

Why don't you adjust your tone, it's not very helpful.

I appreciate and acknowledge your view, however I disagree with you as I believe my tone is representative of many contributors. What I don't find helpful is flooding the mailing lists with inane ramblings that drown any discussion that actually have substance.

...

-- Per Jessen, Zürich (23.3°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - dedicated server rental in Switzerland.

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

jdd

19:37

Le 11/06/2015 21:05, Andrew Wafaa a écrit :

...

because I'm fed up with all the bikeshedding going on. There have been no tangible proposals and descriptions of issues with feasible solutions.

what feasible solution do you propose? jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Per Jessen

19:38

Andrew Wafaa wrote:

...

On 11 June 2015 at 19:48, Per Jessen wrote:

...
Andrew Wafaa wrote:

...
On 11 June 2015 at 17:20, Françoise Wybrecht wrote:

...
Isn't it possible to change the "just do it" ? (@Henné, of course)

Why do you feel the need to?

I see you have made your suggestion... instead of just doing it, you suggest we "just bikeshed it"

...
to find a new boosting sentence ?

What on earth does boosting mean?

...
longer mail ... couldn't be avoid ;)

Yes it could, you could have done a blog post.

Which everyone could immediately have ignored.

Possible. I could also have ignored the email. I chose not to mostly because I'm fed up with all the bikeshedding going on. There have been no tangible proposals and descriptions of issues with feasible solutions.

All you yourself have contributed is useless criticism. I won't pretend to have contributed any "tangible proposals and descriptions of issues with feasible solutions" myself, but as you're fed up with all the bikeshedding, how about adding some constructive input.

...

...
...
...
OK a geek is used to work a lot alone ... but for sure most f us are here to share, collaborate, pair-program or brainstorm a new sorftware.

But "Co is King". Coworking, coproduction, cocréation... (I read that a few weeks ago)

We already collaborate, and?

Why don't you adjust your tone, it's not very helpful.

I appreciate and acknowledge your view, however I disagree with you as I believe my tone is representative of many contributors.

Doesn't make it any better. I certainly hope your tone is not representative of "many contributors".

...

What I don't find helpful is flooding the mailing lists with inane ramblings that drown any discussion that actually have substance.

I see 6 threads started by Francoise, hardly flooding IMHO. Referring to her postings as "inane ramblings" just because you have a problem reading her English, is most definitely _not_ helpful. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (22.9°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - free dynamic DNS, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Cornelius Schumacher

12 Jun 12 Jun

08:37

On Thursday 11 June 2015 20:05:59 Andrew Wafaa wrote:

...

I appreciate and acknowledge your view, however I disagree with you as I believe my tone is representative of many contributors. What I don't find helpful is flooding the mailing lists with inane ramblings that drown any discussion that actually have substance.

While your tone might be representative for some (although I hope it is not), it still is inappropriate. I perceive your replies in these threads as condescending, derogatory, and aggressive. I understand that something has put you off, but maybe you should have had that other cup of coffee or a night of sleep before responding. And you do know that the way to prevent bikeshedding is not to answer on every single email line by line ;-) -- Cornelius Schumacher -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Françoise Wybrecht

16 Jun 16 Jun

16:22

On 11/06/15 20:22, Andrew Wafaa wrote:

...

...
...
in 2011, an openSUSE team went for a marketing week in LA (travel and hotel paid) - and they did produce a lot (as well as articles, design, ideas and fun) - and each of them were very tired at the end but they (quite sure) all keep a great memory of that.

It wasn't that productive, I saw ZERO useful output.

Quick add (to end this thread) 1. it's not because you saw ZERO useful output, that there were ZERO useful output. 2. Is it productiv to do your backup ? Is it productiv to answer nicely to a question (enterprise client for ex) ? Is it productiv to have a openSUSE booth at the FOSDEM ? Perhaps not ... but if you don't do it, for sure it has an impact too. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

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Andrew Wafaa
Cornelius Schumacher
Françoise Wybrecht
jdd
Per Jessen